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Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

Tao Jones posted:

I do wish I didn't have to keep casting Whispering Shadows every 50 steps or so. I know that's the oldschool way, but combined with the scarcity of hotkeys, it's annoying to have to give up 1/10 of my mage's combat buttons on finding secret doors.

Once you're into Act 2 you can get access to a companion who'll find secret doors for you and increase the chance of successfully opening them. They're located near a tough fight with some Blackfang dudes in the Yon'Chall forest. Also, you can eventually get a permanent Whispering Shadows effect as a quest reward, but that's more of a late-game thing.

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goldjas
Feb 22, 2009

I HATE ALL FORMS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT. I HATE BEAUTY. I AM GOLDJAS.

EvilCornbread posted:

So is it normal to need to rest after pretty much every fight? I'm in the naga lighthouse, and am downing pots like mad during fights, but even with that after most fights I have someone down and I need to rest to get back to a state where I can do another fight. But I can only rest 1 more time now so....

The game seems stupidly hard. My characters are regularly getting hit for 2/3 of their total health. It's kind of absurd.

The inn/store outside of Karthal (which you can get to pretty much as soon as you hit chapter 2) gives you 20 freaking Supplies, after I discovered that place I pretty much rested after either every fight or every other fight because well I had so many supplies may as well.

The Insect Court
Nov 22, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

EvilCornbread posted:

My Crusader has Celestial Armor but only the mana to cast it once per fight. Don't have regeneration, I'm guessing that's life magic? Don't have anyone with the skill tree.

I've put every point I have into weapon skills and I wouldn't call it anything close to "really easy". Enemies still hit way harder than I do. Plus I'm finding my Dark/Primordial freemage completely useless. Can't hit worth a drat, and none of her spells are very useful -- great, I can make one out of the incoming ten swings miss, at the cost of her turn every turn. I guess breaking armor is nice, but my Crusader and Blade Dancer still do half the damage of my Fire Runepriest.

Mostly it just seems like enemies do a TON of damage, way more than I do. I've had characters at full health go down in a single round, which is just dumb. Especially in a game with quicksave -- I'm just going to quicksave before every fight and if they pull off some bullshit combo, I'll reload. It's gameplay!

e: Apparently I'm an idiot and picked Warrior at the beginning. I don't suppose there's some way to change that without restarting?

You can't change the difficulty, but for what it's worth the light house was probably the most difficulty part of the game for me on warrior with a similar party. There are plenty of tough fights in later acts, but you've got more resources to defeat them and a greater choice of where to go. If you don't restart, make sure you've cleared out absolutely everything else you can(which should be everything sans dragon, cyclops, and ghosts).

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER
Around level 18 or so, just after act 2, the game really breaks open. You start being able to do the dangerous cave bosses, you can travel to 2 different and new cities (which are also quest hubs with new skill trainers and spells), and you start being able to tackle your class promotion quests and getting grandmaster skills. Or perhaps that's just when my party hit the upward part of its power curve.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.
So what hirelings are you guys finding the most useful and why?

Also is there a complete list of their locations and when you can get them yet?

Arkeus
Jul 21, 2013

-Blackadder- posted:

So what hirelings are you guys finding the most useful and why?

I like having the XP hirelings, though after a while the packhorse is needed unless you always want to throw out stuff. Either that, or you can get the merchant hireling whom you can sell stuff to.

GuyDudeBroMan
Jun 3, 2013

by Ralp

Yaws posted:

This game owns bones. Thinking about checking out some of the older ones but I'm a little hesitant since I have a tough time getting into old school RPGs. The lack of tooltips just drive me nuts.

The world of Xeen games are great and play exactly the same as this. The only difference is that you will have to switch to 100% keyboard only control. I mean, it does have a mouse, but its a total waste of time.

Go loving play Xeen right now. Xeen is like this game but 2 to 3 times the length and with way more character and fun.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

Arkeus posted:

I like having the XP hirelings, though after a while the packhorse is needed unless you always want to throw out stuff. Either that, or you can get the merchant hireling whom you can sell stuff to.

I found that by the time you start accumulating loot fast enough that you can't easily run back to town to sell stuff when your inventory fills up, you're rolling in more cash than you can ever hope to spend anyway. The scholars, dog, doctor and healer are probably the best hirelings overall.

THE PWNER
Sep 7, 2006

by merry exmarx
Yeah I'm planning on dog+healer, once I get rid of this rear end in a top hat who's quest I need to complete that is. Healer is incredibly useful even though her restore doesn't give mana like it says. I plan fights around it; letting my guys get knocked out so that her restore is more efficient.

goldjas
Feb 22, 2009

I HATE ALL FORMS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT. I HATE BEAUTY. I AM GOLDJAS.
The Dwarf Shielding hireling is the only one I had at endgame (you can only have one at endgame due to...reasons) and I don't regret it one bit, probably the best one overall.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

goldjas posted:

The Dwarf Shielding hireling is the only one I had at endgame (you can only have one at endgame due to...reasons) and I don't regret it one bit, probably the best one overall.

I totally forgot she existed but yeah, the bodyguard hireling isn't bad either. You never really reach a point where physical attacks stop being a threat you have to plan around (unlike the lategame in a lot of M&M games where everything is throwing magic and/or lasers at you constantly) so that free block every round is always useful.

Konsek
Sep 4, 2006

Slippery Tilde
Does anyone else have to fight the compulsion to step in every single drat square even though you know there's no need?

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

watch with knife hands

Konsek posted:

Does anyone else have to fight the compulsion to step in every single drat square even though you know there's no need?

Doesn't it give you an achievement? Anyway, yes, I totally do that.

VDay
Jul 2, 2003

I'm Pacman Jones!

Konsek posted:

Does anyone else have to fight the compulsion to step in every single drat square even though you know there's no need?

I am physically incapable of not stepping on every block. Like, the signal from my brain telling me I don't need to do it starts going down but gets lost somewhere before hitting my fingers. Stupid video game OCD :argh:

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

Konsek posted:

Does anyone else have to fight the compulsion to step in every single drat square even though you know there's no need?

Sometimes doing that has made the game zoom in for me on a barrel, chest or treasure cache that I missed so I always do this and have no regrets. :colbert:

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

VDay posted:

I am physically incapable of not stepping on every block. Like, the signal from my brain telling me I don't need to do it starts going down but gets lost somewhere before hitting my fingers. Stupid video game OCD :argh:
That's me all the way. Darkened map squares are anathema even if they're obviously empty.

alarumklok
Jun 30, 2012

If it makes you feel better when you brighten up all the squares, then there is a need. That's how I rationalize it to myself as I waste 10 minutes backtracking to step on the last piece of an empty pier.

DanielSeyar
Jul 1, 2009
I've been doing that since Might and Magic III, where I had to open the map all the time in order to find the spots I missed (harder before I got Wizard Eye)
Xeen gave me a huge bonus with the = key showing a minimap similar to Wizard Eye but uncovered in the unexplored places.

Might and Magic 6 through 8, that was the biggest benefit of the Fly spell.
There never was a Might and Magic 9, much the pity.

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

Nakar posted:

That's me all the way. Darkened map squares are anathema even if they're obviously empty.

Hey, have you played Ultima IV pt 2? Steve is probably aching for a return to glory. Or whoring, as it may be.

Dahbadu
Aug 22, 2004

Reddit has helpfully advised me that I look like a "15 year old fortnite boi"
So I was looking for a list of secret doors, because the detection system seems kinda buggy. With WD on all the time, I've still managed to miss at least a good 30% of the secrets based on my progress and the non-official compilation from gamefaqs below.

I've compiled the list below based off info from (mostly from some awesome gamefaqs poster Yorien -- so props to him/her): http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/708378-might-and-magic-x-legacy/68439683

Please note that I haven't verified most of these. And the list below is still probably missing some secrets. If you kind goons find new ones, maybe we can post them in this thread and the OP author can maintain an updated list in OP.

Where do you get the dog hireling that can sniff out secrets?

In Yon-chall Foreth, in a secondary path. Access from (65,73) or (57,69). Be aware, is heavily protected by Blackfangs, whom are usually too strong for the party when you get access to that location.

SPIDER LAIR
(6,5) MIGHT - Chest, missing citizen

LIGHTHOUSE
Lv1 (3,1) PERCEPTION - Chest
Lv3 (5,5) MIGHT - Chest

DEN OF THIEVES
LV1 (4,6) MAGIC - Lever to (3,2) Chest
LV1 (7,2) MIGHT - Stairs to LV2
Lv1 (10,6) Perception

CASTLE PORTMEYRON
Lv1 (11,0) Magic
LV2 (1,8) MIGHT - Chest (heavily defended)

ELEMENTAL FORGE
LV2 (7,15) MAGIC - Berenice (Magical Focus GM Trainer)
LV2 (5,12) PERCEPTION - Chest
LV2 (16,7) MIGHT - Chest

LOST CITY
LV1 (29,7) MIGHT - Chest
LV2 (6,19) MAGIC - Chest
LV2 (4,5) MIGHT - Chest
LV2 (6,6) PERCEPTION - Chest
Lv3 (11,9) Perception
LV4 (19,11) PERCEPTION - Chest
LV4 (24,9) MIGHT - Chest
LV4 (24,15) MAGIC - Urn
LV4 (8,16) MAGIC - Chest
Lv4 (0,7) PERCEPTION - Barrel
LV4 (8,16) Triggers detection audio cue, but can't find
Lv4 (9,16) Magic
Lv2 (4,6) Triggers detection audio cue, but can't find

TOWER OF ENIGMA
Lv1 walls are easier to spot since their wall is darkened. Several Chests require to answer a riddle to be opened.

LV1 (12,5) MAGIC - Chest
LV1 (5,3) PERCEPTION - Chest
LV1 (3,9) MIGHT - Chest
LV2 (11,14) MAGIC - Chest
LV2 (8,5) PERCEPTION - Chest
LV3 (13,8) MIGHT - Chest (Flute)
LV3 (8,7) MAGIC - Chest
LV3 (6,7) PERCEPTION - Book

KARTHAL SEWERS
Possibly missing some?

LV1 (6,10) MAGIC - Chest (guarded)
LV2 (8,0) MIGHT - Chest

FALAGAR'S MANSION
Possibly missing some?
LV1 (8,8) MAGIC - Chest
LV1 (9,0) PERCEPTION - Chest
Lv2 (4,3) MIGHT - Lever to 4,3 door

CURSED RUINS
Most secrets are located in darkened walls.

LV1 (13,9) PERCEPTION - Chest
LV1 (9,13) MIGHT - Chest
LV1 (8,10) MAGIC - Chest
LV2 (9,7) MAGIC - Pressure plate
LV2 (2,13) PERCEPTION - Pressure plate
LV2 (10,13) MIGHT - Chest

KARTHAL JAIL
LV0 (3,13) PERCEPTION - Barrel
LV0 (3,2) MAGIC - chest
LV1 (14,7) MIGHT - Chest

BLACKGUARD QUARTERS
(15,6) PERCEPTION - Chest
(12,10) MAGIC - Chest
(2,2) MIGHT - Chest

TOMB OF THE THOUSAND TERRORS
LV2 (11,17) MIGHT - Barrel
LV2 (17,15) PERCEPTION - Barrel
LV2 (20, 19) MAGIC - Barrel
Lv3 (3,7) MIGHT - Barrel, dig spot
LV3 (20,3) MAGIC - Chest
LV3 (19,12) PERCEPTION - Chest

THE VIGIL
LV1 (15,21) MIGHT - Chest
LV1 (3,23) MAGIC - Chest
LV1 (15,15) PERCEPTION - Chest
LV2 (2,9) MIGHT - Chest
LV2 (12,4) MAGIC - Chest
LV3 (11,10) MIGHT - Chest
LV3 (6,1) PERCEPTION - Hidden lever

KER-THAL
LV1 (21,7) MAGIC - Chest
LV1 (17.20) MIGHT - Chest
LV2 (11,31) PERCEPTION - Chest

Apoffys
Sep 5, 2011
Thanks for the list. As to the "Triggers detection audio cue, but can't find", maybe just a bug? I have many times gotten the audio cue when walking near secrets I've already opened (and can't find anything else nearby). Seems the audio cue doesn't always care if you've opened it already.

dhamster
Aug 5, 2013

I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Dahbadu posted:

So I was looking for a list of secret doors, because the detection system seems kinda buggy. With WD on all the time, I've still managed to miss at least a good 30% of the secrets based on my progress and the non-official compilation from gamefaqs below.

Sweet list, added to OP.

Going to be streaming in a little bit, up until the Superbowl starts or so. Still in Act 1 as I haven't had a whole lot of time to play. Come and yak at me I'm doing something wrong, I'll be reading the chat. Twitch streams have a ~30 second lag by default now due to their new video system. The URL is http://www.twitch.tv/dhamster

Big Mad Drongo
Nov 10, 2006

Hurf de durf, since I'm playing Warrior difficulty, I should get Daggers to expert before tackling that bandit dungeon! Ha ha, I'ma totally attack that boss guy four times and show him what for!

Seriously though this game is boss, actually having to hold back and plan my turns rather than absentmindedly eviscerating everything is a nice change of pace for a modern RPG. It's like I'm 12 and booting up World of Xeen for the first time again!

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
I'm disappointed that this game doesn't have respawns and allow grinding. I know that that might sound daft, but the combat in this game is fairly enjoyable and I'm a completionist. Not being able to max out to level 40, unless everyone is really missing something, is a disappointment.

I would like to propose, though, that in a few weeks/months when the excitement over this new game dies down that the OP rename this thread and we make it a Might & Magic megathread. I'd bet a hefty sum that this game's release will get people buying/playing the older M&M games, some again and some for the first time. Wizardry has its own thread that gets a fair amount of traffic, and since the M&M series is longer and has better presence outside of Japan I think that that would be a good evolution of this thread once the initial enthusiasm for Legacy cools down.

Konsek
Sep 4, 2006

Slippery Tilde
When I cast, say, Sundering, it says it affects enemies "within a range of 3 tiles". But it only affects the enemy 1 tile in front of me, not the enemy 1 tile diagonal to me. Is it bugged, or does it not affect diagonally placed enemies, or am I missing something?

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies

Konsek posted:

When I cast, say, Sundering, it says it affects enemies "within a range of 3 tiles". But it only affects the enemy 1 tile in front of me, not the enemy 1 tile diagonal to me. Is it bugged, or does it not affect diagonally placed enemies, or am I missing something?

It means 3 in a straight line, there's a fire master spell that works the same way

THE PWNER
Sep 7, 2006

by merry exmarx

JustJeff88 posted:

I'm disappointed that this game doesn't have respawns and allow grinding. I know that that might sound daft, but the combat in this game is fairly enjoyable and I'm a completionist. Not being able to max out to level 40, unless everyone is really missing something, is a disappointment.


I agree that it should be an option, but I like how the lack of respawns makes backtracking pretty painless.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
So if I want to try out some of the other M&M games, is the 6 game collection on GOG a good place to start?

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

THE PWNER posted:

I agree that it should be an option, but I like how the lack of respawns makes backtracking pretty painless.

Good point, but it's also very fun to come back to lower-level areas later and lay the smack down on things that used to slap you around.

Serious Frolicking posted:

So if I want to try out some of the other M&M games, is the 6 game collection on GOG a good place to start?

And how! Amazing amount of fun for $10: M&M 1&2 are awfully dated, but 3, 4/5 (especially), Swords and 6 have all aged splendidly and are very approachable, though 6 is much different from all of the previous titles. Might be the most value for money of any game or package out there.

Now, a question about the earlier M&M games... do the modifiers to Spell Points for race apply to hybrids as well as cleric/sorcerers? I would assume so, but I've had a hard time checking on my own due to not knowing where to find the character creation location in Xeen/Swords. I tend to play caster-heavy parties and Half-Orcs get major penalties to SP, but I'm trying to find an excuse to play one anyway. 1/2 Orcs are top hull for Knights/Barbarians and pretty good as Robbers/Ninjas, but I just wanted to check.

JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 3, 2014

2 Track EP
May 29, 2009
I think defending victims of child rape is tumblr SJW PC extremism. Kids lie about being raped all the time, I know because I work with them.
So, uhh, oops - was I supposed to be pumping Vitality on everyone? Since the Elemental Forge, every boss kills everyone except my tank in a single hit through Celestial Armor and Stoneskin (and sometimes they have AoEs that will instakill three of my party members). He's not able to direct all attacks to himself so I'm kind of thinking I screwed myself over by not getting everyone a bunch of health. Is there something else I'm doing wrong?

e: Part of it might be that I'm in Act 2 and everyone is wearing their starting equipment outside of rings and amulets, one relic hat, and one pair of gloves, because I haven't found anything better in dungeons or in stores.

2 Track EP fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Feb 3, 2014

alarumklok
Jun 30, 2012

Nope, you pretty much figured out your issue. One vitality a level is pretty good, so figure out where you should be from that and play catch up. Expert endurance is also nice on anyone you can afford to get that on. Eventually you're going to want some arcane discipline probably. My second game I had 3 characters at AD master and one at expert. It'll really help against a bunch of the bigger thumps you run across.

To your edit: it might not look it, but that 1-2 armor increase is still going to help. Every slot should be filled on all of your characters by then, and if you're at seahaven you should have fancy weapons on everyone too.

Underwhelmed
Mar 7, 2004


Nap Ghost

GuyDudeBroMan posted:

The world of Xeen games are great and play exactly the same as this. The only difference is that you will have to switch to 100% keyboard only control. I mean, it does have a mouse, but its a total waste of time.

Go loving play Xeen right now. Xeen is like this game but 2 to 3 times the length and with way more character and fun.

And with a godawful interface, but an outstanding game none the less.

Play it on Warrior difficulty though, Adventurer is way too easy.

dhamster
Aug 5, 2013

I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

dhamster posted:

Going to be streaming in a little bit, up until the Superbowl starts or so. Still in Act 1 as I haven't had a whole lot of time to play. Come and yak at me I'm doing something wrong, I'll be reading the chat. Twitch streams have a ~30 second lag by default now due to their new video system. The URL is http://www.twitch.tv/dhamster

Finally beat Act 1! The bandit dungeon was good fun, the castle too but it felt like more of a slog due to the volume of opponents. I think my party is really starting to grow into their roles, though. My Freemage has evolved from a support class to a competent nuker too, and my Sword blade dancer is now starting to crit and dodge things. I haven't decided yet if I want to develop my Rune Priest with a shield/mace or with foci; since she's my party's primary healer, I might want the extra defense from the shield instead of the bonus to spell crit. I like that my options in combat have expanded as much as I learn new spells. Lots of enemies? throw down poison spray and sparks. Break through blocks with Radiant Weapon. Punish spellcasters with Mana Surge. Control the enemy's positioning with entangling roots and gusts of wind. The boss fights are great, too: beatable, but hard enough to keep me hanging on by the skin of my teeth on Warrior difficulty. The archers that came out of nowhere against the Castle boss had me cursing, but it was satisfying to mow them down in pairs after focusing down the boss.

I've been stuck at the Novice level for a couple skills, but I'll look up the trainer locations for those before my next session.

JustJeff88 posted:

I'm disappointed that this game doesn't have respawns and allow grinding. I know that that might sound daft, but the combat in this game is fairly enjoyable and I'm a completionist. Not being able to max out to level 40, unless everyone is really missing something, is a disappointment.

I thought I heard some areas respawn after about a month? I haven't gotten that far, though, and maybe it was a bug.

JustJeff88 posted:

I would like to propose, though, that in a few weeks/months when the excitement over this new game dies down that the OP rename this thread and we make it a Might & Magic megathread. I'd bet a hefty sum that this game's release will get people buying/playing the older M&M games, some again and some for the first time. Wizardry has its own thread that gets a fair amount of traffic, and since the M&M series is longer and has better presence outside of Japan I think that that would be a good evolution of this thread once the initial enthusiasm for Legacy cools down.

Agreed! I like that this thread serves as a defacto M&M Megathread, but we can make it official once most people have played the new game and have decided to give Xeen, MM6-8 and other titles a try. I think it would be neat to watch some streams of those older titles, as well.

Serious Frolicking posted:

So if I want to try out some of the other M&M games, is the 6 game collection on GOG a good place to start?

Definitely. There are players who will argue that 4-5 or 6 are their favorite titles in the series. Others think the high point was at MM7, which is sold separately for about $6.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Underwhelmed posted:

And with a godawful interface, but an outstanding game none the less.

Play it on Warrior difficulty though, Adventurer is way too easy.

When I properly get around to it, though, I'm playing first time on Adventurer. Any game where you have to build characters slowly and can fairly easily make a build that's not viable with no way to respec mid-game (I glare threateningly at System Shock 2 here) is one where I'm taking it easy the first time. If it's absolutely piss-easy the first few hours I might change my mind, but I'm more about playing with all the toys than power-gaming and this game is about giving everyone a keen speciality. The class variety makes this game very replayable anyway, so a second run on Warrior isn't out of the question. Plus, I think that there are some serious overachievers on this thread who have been min-maxing the ever-loving gently caress out of every RPG since the Commodore 64 and I haven't, so I'd prefer to stay well inside my element of joyful exploration coupled with profound mediocrity.

dhamster posted:

Others think the high point was at MM7, which is sold separately for about $6.

I actually like Day of the Destroyer the most apart from the fact that you can't start with a full party, but that one is kind of the forgotten installment of the series. 1 & 2 are really dated and get overlooked because they are so inaccessible, 3 is good but is overshadowed by 4/5 which is amazing. In the "new generatiion", 6 is to 7 what 3 was to 4/5, and 9 is only mentioned with either anger or wistful sadness and disappointment. 8 and Swords of Xeen, which was a fanmod I think, kind of never get talked about much. VIII appeals to me a lot largely because of having a larger party size... I was never happy with 6/7/9/X going 4-man party and not shy about saying so.

JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 3, 2014

Underwhelmed
Mar 7, 2004


Nap Ghost
The thing with Xeen, is that Adventurer mode, just triples your melee/missile damage (or something like that) so it actually breaks the game, and makes magic almost pointless since it does not get the same bump. You can't really screw up a character's development as they just level up. The only character building that you might goof, is distributing the stat boosts (which are all found or granted as quest rewards), but there are poo poo loads of those, and several that only work on characters with low stats so it isn't hard to correct in the long run.

dhamster
Aug 5, 2013

I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

JustJeff88 posted:

I actually like Day of the Destroyer the most apart from the fact that you can't start with a full party, but that one is kind of the forgotten installment of the series. 1 & 2 are really dated and get overlooked because they are so inaccessible, 3 is good but is overshadowed by 4/5 which is amazing. In the "new generatiion", 6 is to 7 what 3 was to 4/5, and 9 is only mentioned with either anger or wistful sadness and disappointment. 8 and Swords of Xeen, which was a fanmod I think, kind of never get talked about much. VIII appeals to me a lot largely because of having a larger party size... I was never happy with 6/7/9/X going 4-man party and not shy about saying so.

I actually played VIII before VII because I got it as a gift many years ago, and enjoyed it quite a bit since I got to see all the improvements that MM7 brought to the engine. The ending felt a bit thrown together and the balance was a bit broken since you could recruit overleveled characters and overleveled dragons in the midgame, but it was still a good time.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

JustJeff88 posted:

I was never happy with 6/7/9/X going 4-man party and not shy about saying so.

I've got mixed feelings on party size. I grew up with the Gold Box games, and Xeen was my first M&M, and six seems like a good, natural, fun party size. But when I look at these games from a design point of view, I sort of feel like four person parties is probably better for gameplay. The bigger your party gets the more you can cover all the bases as far as skills go and the more generalist it seems like your party would get. Unless you're going to go Wizardry crazy and have 15 races and 22 classes, it seems like only having four party members forces more hard choices, which makes game play more interesting in the long run, and encourages replayablity, because you can come up with very different party builds instead of being able to GM most/every single skill with any given build.

But, yeah, I always feel a little disappointed, and wish I could roll six guys.

Big Mad Drongo
Nov 10, 2006

Fintilgin posted:

I've got mixed feelings on party size. I grew up with the Gold Box games, and Xeen was my first M&M, and six seems like a good, natural, fun party size. But when I look at these games from a design point of view, I sort of feel like four person parties is probably better for gameplay. The bigger your party gets the more you can cover all the bases as far as skills go and the more generalist it seems like your party would get. Unless you're going to go Wizardry crazy and have 15 races and 22 classes, it seems like only having four party members forces more hard choices, which makes game play more interesting in the long run, and encourages replayablity, because you can come up with very different party builds instead of being able to GM most/every single skill with any given build.

But, yeah, I always feel a little disappointed, and wish I could roll six guys.

Same here. I cut my teeth on RPGs in general with Xeen, and its still my favorite in the series, but I don't think I could go back to six man parties with barely differentiated party members. Yeah, Barbarians got more attacks but less armor than Knights, but thats a tiny difference compared to say Blade Dancers and Dwarven Defenders.

As painful as it is to figure out what skills your party just won't have, it makes both development and fights more interesting as you work around your weaknesses.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

JustJeff88 posted:

Now, a question about the earlier M&M games... do the modifiers to Spell Points for race apply to hybrids as well as cleric/sorcerers? I would assume so, but I've had a hard time checking on my own due to not knowing where to find the character creation location in Xeen/Swords. I tend to play caster-heavy parties and Half-Orcs get major penalties to SP, but I'm trying to find an excuse to play one anyway. 1/2 Orcs are top hull for Knights/Barbarians and pretty good as Robbers/Ninjas, but I just wanted to check.

Yeah, the racial SP penalties in World of Xeen definitely apply to hybrid casters. I think they apply before the 1/2 SP modifier for being a hybrid, though, so the effect of the penalty is also halved.

JustJeff88 posted:

When I properly get around to it, though, I'm playing first time on Adventurer. Any game where you have to build characters slowly and can fairly easily make a build that's not viable with no way to respec mid-game (I glare threateningly at System Shock 2 here) is one where I'm taking it easy the first time. If it's absolutely piss-easy the first few hours I might change my mind, but I'm more about playing with all the toys than power-gaming and this game is about giving everyone a keen speciality. The class variety makes this game very replayable anyway, so a second run on Warrior isn't out of the question. Plus, I think that there are some serious overachievers on this thread who have been min-maxing the ever-loving gently caress out of every RPG since the Commodore 64 and I haven't, so I'd prefer to stay well inside my element of joyful exploration coupled with profound mediocrity.

Speaking of difficulties, a couple of people earlier in the thread wanted to know what difference the difficulty level actually makes in M&MX, and the answer is it seems like the difference between Adventurer and Warrior isn't huge: the main differences are that you take 20% more damage from all attacks, and things cost more (some services like identification and healing are doubled in price, while training costs and items in shops are about 10% more expensive).

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shalcar
Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.
Taco Defender
One thing I really like about the design of Might and Magic X is that I always feel like I'm just short of getting everything in the skills, I need to pick the one or two things I don't get.

It feels meaningful and changes the feel of each party. I miss the bigger parties, but unless you hugely simplify the classes, four really is the way to go.

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