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Farage is a tit who makes me uncomfortable, can we make him sit in a corner with a blanket over his head?
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Dec 5, 2014 16:26
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People are very quick to jump on comments about breastfeeding - this swimming pool got it in the neck for stopping a woman breastfeeding in the water. While I generally support a woman's right to breastfeed wherever they feel comfortable, it felt like that was crossing a line - I realise she was doing it in the children's section of the pool, but nobody wants to accidentally ingest someone elses bodily fluids as they swim by. As for Farage - he was put on the spot about the issue and basically came out with "some people, especially older people, get embarrassed by it, I don't have a problem with businesses asking women to be discrete". He was dumb to use the word ostentatious and unwise to volunteer a possible suggestion when prompted, but at least you got an answer containing an opinion out of him. You'll never know if Cameron or Milibot would <politicalspeak> in response to an interview like that but be secret breastfeeding oppressors. He followed up with quote:"Let me get this clear, as I said on the radio and as I repeat now, I personally have no problem with mothers breastfeeding wherever they want," he said. "If the establishment in question, in this case Claridge's, wants to maintain rules about this stuff, then that is up to them, as it should be. Isn't he just trying to make the point that if some customers find it uncomfortable, then businesses should be allowed to make arrangements for it to be done discretely? Openly breastfeeding in public seems to have been a massive cultural shift over a short timescale, so I don't find it surprising if some members of older generations are uncomfortable with it. It's a bit like how I wouldn't have talked about sex in front of my grandparents, even though it's a completely natural bodily function. Thanks for the informative post Hookerbot, I've also wondered the same.
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Dec 5, 2014 17:16
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Pissflaps posted:My wife breastfeeds and im just itching for somebody to try to say something about it. She does and I'm a big hungry boy.
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Dec 5, 2014 17:19
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My local off-license got robbed by a hypnotist. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/05/hypnotist-thief-robs-shopkeeper-london-trance Highgate: for lovers of Marx and criminals with powers
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Dec 5, 2014 17:40
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Prince John posted:I realise she was doing it in the children's section of the pool, but nobody wants to accidentally ingest someone elses bodily fluids as they swim by. Between the chlorine and the gallons of pee in an average swimming pool, breastmilk is probably the best thing you could hope to accidentally ingest in a pool.
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Dec 5, 2014 17:41
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Breastfeeding is a weird subject, and although I am obviously massively in favour of people trying it I think that the pressure on mothers to breastfeed by health visitors and midwives has led to a backlash. Both sides get really defensive about their choices because being told that you're not doing the best for your baby is just as horrible as being told that you are making people feel sick by flapping your boobs out inappropriately. And really bottled milk is fine. Most of the differences are almost certainly more to do with the socioeconomic differences in people choosing to breastfeed. My sister in law ended up having to bottle feed after problems with breastfeeding but seeing as she's a doctor and my brother is an editor her kid is almost definitely going to outclass my kid in the end, breastfeeding or not. Also I do wonder about the feminist aspects of telling women they must breastfeed seeing as it can basically put the majority of the onus of childcare onto the mum. But then that has often ended up on the mum anyway in the past and if breastfeeding goes well it's a lot less effort than bottle feeding, as well as far less expensive. There's a lot of factors to it, but getting rid of the public opinion that it is gross and shameful would get rid of one complicating factor at least. Prince John posted:
But then isn't that similar to the pub throwing out a gay couple for kissing? Or the branch of Tesco that did something similar?
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Dec 5, 2014 17:44
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Pissflaps posted:unless you're having a really good look trust me i am
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Dec 5, 2014 17:45
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hookerbot 5000 posted:There's a lot of factors to it, but getting rid of the public opinion that it is gross and shameful would get rid of one complicating factor at least. I agree - I just think it's a matter of time - and this was my point about the speed of change in public breastfeeding's cultural acceptability. Once the prudish generations (for want of a better word) are gone, it will become normalised. quote:But then isn't that similar to the pub throwing out a gay couple for kissing? Or the branch of Tesco that did something similar? Given they were in Claridges, I don't think we need to complicate the issue by making it a gay kiss. If you started breathlessly playing tonsil tennis with your (heterosexual) partner, you'd probably get dirty looks from snobby 70 year olds next to you and a request from the maitre d' to be more restrained. In some environments (or, as Farage put it, "certain limited circumstances"), there are more restrictive behavioural norms.
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Dec 5, 2014 17:51
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Well what about a gay couple holding hands then, or not sufficiently masking their relationship so that old people can go on believing they're 'just friends shopping together'?
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Dec 5, 2014 17:57
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baka kaba posted:Well what about a gay couple holding hands then, or not sufficiently masking their relationship so that old people can go on believing they're 'just friends shopping together'? My point was that the location is one that has extremely restrictive norms about what is acceptable behaviour - way beyond what most of us would apply to our everyday lives. Therefore, given the setting, I can understand why they were overly-concerned about discretion when breastfeeding. I'm not massively interested in going down the rabbit hole of "what about this edge case", "or this one" until you find an inconsistency, but for the record, I think oldies should suck up the handholding. Prince John fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 18:05
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hookerbot 5000 posted:Most of the differences are almost certainly more to do with the socioeconomic differences in people choosing to breastfeed.
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Dec 5, 2014 18:06
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baka kaba posted:Well what about a gay couple holding hands then, or not sufficiently masking their relationship so that old people can go on believing they're 'just friends shopping together'? I don't know what comparative case you'd make with breastfeeding here (I guess men can lactate under some conditions but nobody would make a serious case for that), but I would support normalizing public nudity laws, whether that means that men have to cover up or women are allowed to go topless.
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Dec 5, 2014 18:08
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Zephro posted:Breastfeeding also seems to produce runny yellow custard-ish poop that smells a lot less bad than what you get from bottle feeding. Sounds like you're having a whale of a time.
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Dec 5, 2014 18:23
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In Scotland, preventing someone from breastfeeding in public is a criminal offence punishable by up to £2'500. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2005/1/section/1
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Dec 5, 2014 18:24
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KKKlean Energy posted:Sounds like you're having a whale of a time.
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Dec 5, 2014 18:45
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Guavanaut posted:The store that threw out a lesbian couple for a minor public display of affection would not have done the same for a straight couple, so there is clear discrimination. If there is a store or restaurant that has a strict no-PDA rule and applies it consistently across all couples then that would not be discriminatory. (It would be a lovely restaurant though). Well that's the point really, there are lots of people who'd be uncomfortable or disgusted by a gay couple (etc etc) who are publicly visible, even if it's just holding hands while they walk around some shop, but whose sensibilities wouldn't be offended if they saw a man and a woman doing it. 'Some people don't like it' and 'they grew up in a different time, things are changing fast' wouldn't be justifications for sending a shop assistant over to tell them to get back in the closet while they're in this establishment Let's be honest, this is the kind of store where people care about being around the right kind of clientele instead of minding their own business, so it's exactly the sort of place you'd expect heavy enforcement of conservative social norms - unless you're extra wealthy of course! And it's still discriminatory when it affects a subsection of the population (women with babies who don't have a nanny)
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Dec 5, 2014 19:07
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Mister Adequate posted:This isn't the worst thing Farage has ever said, but hopefully it'll put at least a few people off him. It's not like mothers walk around flapping their tits in everyone's face. I don't believe I've ever heard of a breastfeeding mother who was "openly ostentatious" about it, women don't treat it like a bloody excuse to flash everyone. Breastfeeding mothers are bad because you can see what they're doing. Women in burqas are bad because who knows what they're up to under there! Obviously the only workable solution is to ban women from all public spaces.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:13
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Renaissance Robot posted:Obviously the only workable solution is to ban women from all public spaces. Are you mad!? With no women around, all men would be FORCED to become gay! What will the feminazis think of next?
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Dec 5, 2014 19:19
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Don't be silly, nobody's talking about banning women from public spaces, just having them stay discreetly in the background - it's just good manners. They could sit in the corner. What no I'm not saying they should, just saying they could, just saying. Just blue-sky thinking here
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Dec 5, 2014 19:26
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Why the gently caress should they? I don't have to stay out the way when I'm eating a sandwich.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:35
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This the same Nigel Farage who reads The Sun? So he's all for naked breasts in public, as long as it's a photo in a sexualised context, in an everyday newspaper, for saddos to ogle. But he's against naked breasts in public if it's for feeding a hungry baby. Nice consistent policy, that.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:35
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Prince John posted:People are very quick to jump on comments about breastfeeding - this swimming pool got it in the neck for stopping a woman breastfeeding in the water. While I generally support a woman's right to breastfeed wherever they feel comfortable, it felt like that was crossing a line - I realise she was doing it in the children's section of the pool, but nobody wants to accidentally ingest someone elses bodily fluids as they swim by. Wow, didn't expect to see a story from my town in this thread, I go to that leisure centre and its really very nice. The centre should have just said to her "please get out of the pool if you want to breastfeed, its dangerous for the baby", and it probably wouldn't have been an issue.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:44
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Most of the issues with breastfeeding in public come from people's complete inability to not see a breast as a sexual object. A breast's entire function is to provide sustenance for a child. That's what it is designed for. They are also nice to look at, but this is a secondary purpose! There are many, many circumstances in which functional, human adults are capable of seeing breasts as non-sexual, such as: * A medical examination * Artistic endeavors, such as life drawing. * Accidentally seeing the breasts of relatives, such as sisters or children. In an ideal world breastfeeding, i.e. what breasts are for, would be included in such a list and I hope someday it will be. There are a few valid reasons why they could have said "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that here" such as it being potentially hazardous for the baby - chlorine, urine and all that other poo poo (literally), and you're not allowed to eat in the pool, stop being a rule-breaking rear end in a top hat baby 
Rush Limbo fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 19:59
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EvilGenius posted:Why the gently caress should they? I don't have to stay out the way when I'm eating a sandwich. You do if you're eating it wrong.
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Dec 5, 2014 20:01
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Stottie Kyek posted:This the same Nigel Farage who reads The Sun? It's at least partly his not-racist libertarian party stance against regulation and the militant PC left telling private businesses what they can do
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Dec 5, 2014 20:05
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Ddraig posted:Most of the issues with breastfeeding in public come from people's complete inability to not see a breast as a sexual object. Do you happen to know where this came from? Not that it's super important to dealing with the present negative effects (I'm fairly certain that if female breasts in a non-sexual context were to become a commonplace sight, everyone would lose interest in short order; much like catcalling, ogling is only fun if it's non-consensual), I just think historical sociology is interesting. Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 20:17
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Renaissance Robot posted:Do you happen to know where this came from? Not that it's super important to dealing with the present negative effects (I'm fairly certain that if female breasts in a non-sexual context were to become a commonplace sight, everyone would lose interest in short order; much like catcalling, ogling is only fun if it's non-consensual), I just think historical sociology is interesting. Like every lovely outlook in the UK that just won't go away: The Victorians. With reinforcement from American culture who are scared of breasts in the present day. That's the when of it. As for the why of it i'm not a historian but intuitively it appears to be the common contradictory effort to both condemn and enshrine something at the same time. Everything the Victorians hid away they did so only so they could could be super filthy behind closed doors. The logic seems to go: 1) I love boobies they make me feel funny 2) HIDE THE BOOBIES I CAN'T TAKE SEEING SO MANY OF THEM 3) because they are hidden i'm now super randy for boobies hooray.
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Dec 5, 2014 20:32
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Stottie Kyek posted:This the same Nigel Farage who reads The Sun? None of those people read the Sun.
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Dec 5, 2014 20:44
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That's only half of it - people are also super judgemental about women's bodies, so you get this running 'do I find this attractive' aspect of sexualisation, and if the answer is no then people can flip out about it. I DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT etc, like it's somehow ruining their sexy sexy world See also: celebrity women going to the shops and looking normal Gonzo McFee posted:None of those people read the Sun. Farage totally reads the Sun.  Reads
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Dec 5, 2014 20:44
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There's class related stuff with breastfeeding too - basically the lower down the 'class' ladder a parent is the less likely they are to breastfeed. I don't know if there's a connection between the overt sexualisation of women in papers like the sun that are predominantly read by working class people and low breastfeeding rates.
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Dec 5, 2014 20:52
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well we are heading into panto season: Russell Brand and Nigel Farage set for heated head-to-head Question Time debate The comedian turned political activist will sit alongside the Ukip leader he frequently refers to as “that racist bloke” on the current affairs panel show Two polar-opposites of the political spectrum, Russell Brand and Nigel Farage, will face each other on Question Time in Canterbury next week. The comedian turned political activist will sit alongside the Ukip leader he frequently refers to as “that racist bloke” on the current affairs panel show on Thursday 11 December, the BBC have confirmed. Joining them will be the Labour MP and shadow international development secretary Mary Creagh, and a number of guests who are yet to be confirmed. Viewers might be expecting a volatile and heated head-to-head between the left-wing social campaigner and the leader of the right-wing anti-immigration party http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...d=facebook-post
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Dec 5, 2014 20:58
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People are going to be really, really loving sour if it's Russell Brand that kills UKIP.
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Dec 5, 2014 21:01
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JFairfax posted:The comedian turned political activist will sit alongside the Ukip leader he frequently refers to as “that racist bloke” on the current affairs panel show Four of these five paragraphs say the same thing 
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Dec 5, 2014 21:27
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I hope we never give the Elgin Marbles to Greece.
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Dec 5, 2014 21:36
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Why not Pflaps - maybe they look nice in a Mediterranean sunset
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Dec 5, 2014 21:57
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oxford_town posted:Isn't reactionary conservatism what most of UKIP's support base actually believes? If we're talking about social conservatism, I think a lot of them do, but there's a kind of pretence the party makes in public that its just about economic conservatism, even the immigration stuff. Of course every 'bongo bongo gay sluts cause flooding' comment puts a dent in that. I just have to hope there are some people on the fence who will be put off by that kind of stuff. On a related note, the way No. 10 wouldn't comment on this thing until what Farage said became an issue and then slamming him for it was pretty pathetic.
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Dec 5, 2014 22:11
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Regarde Aduck posted:Like every lovely outlook in the UK that just won't go away: The Victorians. With reinforcement from American culture who are scared of breasts in the present day. That's the when of it. As for the why of it i'm not a historian but intuitively it appears to be the common contradictory effort to both condemn and enshrine something at the same time. Everything the Victorians hid away they did so only so they could could be super filthy behind closed doors. The logic seems to go: 1) I love boobies they make me feel funny 2) HIDE THE BOOBIES I CAN'T TAKE SEEING SO MANY OF THEM 3) because they are hidden i'm now super randy for boobies hooray. It is really strange. My uncle's from the Ivory Coast, which isn't exactly a progressive haven of women's liberation, but people aren't fazed by boobs. When he moved here, he saw all the things like Page 3 and soft porn on British pop-up ad sites - after a while of this, he took my aunt aside and said, "...can you explain, what the hell is it with British people and breasts?"
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Dec 5, 2014 22:16
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Pissflaps posted:I hope we never give the Elgin Marbles to Greece. It's coming home
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Dec 6, 2014 00:10
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Coohoolin posted:In Scotland, preventing someone from breastfeeding in public is a criminal offence punishable by up to £2'500. Yeah, but problems tend to emerge when private businesses take issue with it on their premises. The inside of a shop or a pub or whatever isn't public, so the owners have a lot of scope to enforce rules as they see fit. As far as I'm aware, the only exception to this is if they would be discriminating against people based on protected characteristics. I doubt the choice to breastfeed (or indeed the choice of gay people to kiss) would fall under that, as there's a lot of wiggle room to phrase it as a 'manners' issue (i.e. 'we'd kick out a straight couple for doing the same, it's just bad manners to feel each other up like that in public'). Obviously that's nonsense (just look at the number of random straight people you see pulling each other in bars every night), but it's difficult to prove conclusively. I suppose a name and shame policy is probably a reasonable compromise - you're not barred from banning that kind of behaviour in and of itself, but you'd better expect people to talk about it and about how much of a bigoted jackass you are.
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Dec 6, 2014 00:29
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hookerbot 5000 posted:There's class related stuff with breastfeeding too - basically the lower down the 'class' ladder a parent is the less likely they are to breastfeed. I don't know if there's a connection between the overt sexualisation of women in papers like the sun that are predominantly read by working class people and low breastfeeding rates. There's a general disregard towards health in poorer families, eating junk food, smoking and drinking while pregnant, etc, due to lack of education. If you're pregnant, the benefits of breast feeding are made pretty damned clear to you whenever you go the hospital, the doctors, or when a health visitor comes round. But I imagine it's pretty easy to be pregnant 'off the radar', and to bypass all of that and miss out on where most of that info comes from.
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Dec 6, 2014 01:28
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