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sniper4625 posted:But my bill integrates the Evucks and contains the Acutians! sniper4625 posted:1. Keep the Acutians down - they're not nullfied yet
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Aug 25, 2014 21:28
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 19:57 |
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 Oh yeah this game. Hunnic Justice Act: No: A nice short bill. Points 1 and 3 seem fine. But 2 seems like getting people to fight and that sounds like someone might get killed. I dunno maybe it's just me but fomenting war seems like it's a little bit evil. Permanent Revolution Act: Yes: Even shorter and sweeter, nice! points 1 and 2 seem like they do things that might be good (I really don't know) but 3 is stealing and stealing is assholish but not necessarily outright evil. Perfect. Growing Strong Act: Yes Another good short bill. #1 is a bit worrying because "keep them down" might sound like "kill them" but I don't think we can really do that to those guys anyway so whatever. #2 is super vague but harmless and #3 seems like a really good idea. Get the Evucks Act: Yes The shortest sweetest bill ever! Amazing. Also it seems like peaceful and good? The Patriot Act: No Comparitively not a very short bill but more importantly I'm guessing sneaking around doing subterfuge poo poo could backfire really badly. Federal Expansion Bill: No 1 seems good, 2 seems totally open-ended and potentially dangerous, and 3 seems like it could mean "crush anyone who looks at us wrong" which is potentially really bad. Maybe? OFF Act: Yes: Yeah sure, research is good. Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes Yeah sure, money is good. WTHDYTWA Act: Yes This party seems like it has like this really evil looking iconography but then it's all just 'lets bring guys into the federation' and that seems like a good idea so yeah sure. This was the easiest set of bills to read ever. The Lazy rear end in a top hat Party officially endorses the new legislative structure in which everyone makes a minimal effort and there's hardly any arguing.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:33
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Glenn Zimmerman posted:I suppose my definition of containment was a little vague. To clarify, I wish to avoid any deliberate provocation of the Acutians which your bill seems to do here: Ah. Given that the Acutians are still at war with the Federation, I don't see what's so objectionable about the provision. They started it, after all. To clarify in light of Leper's comments: I do not seek to wipe out the Acutians. I only wish to remove their capability to wage war, a capability they have misused on numerous occasions. Active containment, if you will.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:34
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sniper4625 posted:To clarify in light of Leper's comments: I do not seek to wipe out the Acutians. I only wish to remove their capability to wage war, a capability they have misused on numerous occasions. Active containment, if you will. I don't know the mechanics of this (and I'm not going to learn them) but I have the impression that removing a race's capability to wage war is essentially synonymous with crushing them, since any race with a military can wage war and any race without a military will be devoured by their neighbors in short order. I guess maybe just having tons of ground forces but no ships could work? Is that even a thing that can be done to those guys?
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Aug 25, 2014 21:39
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
 Voting party line Zikan fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 21:43
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Leperflesh posted:I don't know the mechanics of this (and I'm not going to learn them) but I have the impression that removing a race's capability to wage war is essentially synonymous with crushing them, since any race with a military can wage war and any race without a military will be devoured by their neighbors in short order. Or just reducing their space power enough that they can defend, but not attack. I don't know exactly. On the other hand, the Burlusts have no space power at all, and seem to be trucking right along. I guess their overwhelming land power is enough of a deterrent.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:44
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Leperflesh posted:
Voting party line.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:46
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sniper4625 posted:Ah. Given that the Acutians are still at war with the Federation, I don't see what's so objectionable about the provision. They started it, after all. I was more hoping for defensive actions until the Evucks are integrated. From my understanding this will be very difficult and I don't think we need any distractions. *Also, I just noticed there is no line between the Evuck and the Hydral. What does that mean?
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Aug 25, 2014 21:56
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Hunnic Justice Act: No Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: Yes The Patriot Act: No Federal Expansion Bill: No OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: Yes
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Aug 25, 2014 22:25
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Hunnic Justice Act: Yes Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: No Get the Evucks Act: No The Patriot Act: Yes Federal Expansion Bill: Abstain OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: No WTHDYTWA Act: Yes
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Aug 25, 2014 22:30
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Rogue0071 posted:
As usual, I'm voting party line.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:36
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Hunnic Justice Act: Yes Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: No The Patriot Act: No Federal Expansion Bill: Yes OFF Act: No Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: No
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Aug 25, 2014 22:42
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  The party line for the Team Dai-Hydrren is as follows. Hunnic Justice Act: Yes Permanent Revolution Act: No Growing Strong Act: No Get the Evucks Act: No The Patriot Act: Abstain Federal Expansion Bill: Yes OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Abstain WTHDYTWA Act: Yes Party members should vote yes on the WTHDYTWA and Hunnic Justice Acts, and should vote on all other acts at their own discretion.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:00
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 Hunnic Justice Act: Abstain Permanent Revolution Act: No Growing Strong Act: Abstain Get the Evucks Act: Yes The Patriot Act: Yes Federal Expansion Bill: Yes OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: Yes Stephen9001 fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 23:02
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 Hunnic Justice Act: No Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: No The Patriot Act: No Federal Expansion Bill: NO OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: No
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Aug 25, 2014 23:05
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Blackunknown posted:
Out of curiosity, what is your objection to my bill?
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Aug 25, 2014 23:10
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sniper4625 posted:
To be fair it mostly the "Keeping the Acutians down" bit that I feel is not needed, today's enemies are tomorrows allis as they say, and keeping the Acutians down could be detrimental to relations in case we were to bring them into the federation. Also that the Evucks are become more of a problem then their worth. Improving ship technology is good but has been suggested in many of this session's bills that I feel it would pass one way or another.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:21
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I must admit I don't see the controversy in attempting to keep the people we are currently at war with weak. It's not like it's long term policy, anyway, it'll expire at the end of the session with any other bill. The Acutians have shown their willingness to engage in aggressive conquest on repeated occasions, does it not make sense that we take whatever steps we can to prevent them from doing it again? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, after all. I believe the ship has sailed on the Evucks - the necessities of Realpolitik demand that we continue to bring them close into the Federation. To abruptly reverse course now would leave us adrift in the middle of the river. While I may not have been the biggest fan of the Evucks, I also realize when personal beliefs must be put aside for the good of the Federation.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:29
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 Hunnic Justice Act: Abstain I actually kinda like this bill, but I think that with everything else we're trying to do attempting to get the Burlusts and Thoraxians in would be spreading ourselves too thin. Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Bit redundant, but whatever. From what I understand we want to steal outposts all day every day anyhow, so the specific targeting isn't THAT big a deal. Growing Strong Act: Yes While I would have liked to get the Acutians on side earlier, I don't know if it's a viable goal any longer. I don't know that it's necessary to focus on grinding them down, but I don't know that it'll hurt. The rest of the bill does some handy things. Get the Evucks Act: Yes Trying to court the Lazy rear end in a top hat vote, eh? The Patriot Act: Abstain I find this Act a tad bizarre. The proposed diplomatic arm includes Evucks but not Acutians? (Acutians are the ones who can backdoor other races, alongside the Skylaxians). The military arm does not propose the Evucks, currently the big dog in space? In general what was the reasoning behind these choices? I can't grok it at all. Federal Expansion Bill: Abstain I sincerely doubt whether Eightfold Unity's goals are possible any longer. Best of luck to them, anyhow. OFF Act: Yes A charmingly useful little bill. Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes Useful, nothing objectionable, nothing to see here. WTHDYTWA Act: No As with the Revengeance bill, I think this is going to spread ourselves too thin, and I believe its research mandate is already covered by the Growing Strong Act. There is, as always, no party line for the Order of Cassandra. Vote as your personal judgement dictates. sniper4625 posted:I must admit I don't see the controversy in attempting to keep the people we are currently at war with weak. It's not like it's long term policy, anyway, it'll expire at the end of the session with any other bill. Wiz posted:
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Aug 25, 2014 23:56
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quote:Bit redundant, but whatever. From what I understand we want to steal outposts all day every day anyhow, so the specific targeting isn't THAT big a deal. You can't steal outposts from Fed races and I don't want to steal from the Evucks. The Boarines are hardly likely to build one given their condition and if they do they'll need it.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:26
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I assumed we were just doing more general policies as opposed to specific provisos, but keeping the one update duration part. If that was wrong, I apologize. Either way, keeping the Acutians down is a fine goal. Their repeated aggression against the System merits consequences. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 02:36
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Rogue0071 posted:You can't steal outposts from Fed races and I don't want to steal from the Evucks. The Boarines are hardly likely to build one given their condition and if they do they'll need it. Yeah, we don't want to steal ALL outposts, just ones from races we can take the relations hit with (i.e., not ones we're actively recruiting). Soon enough it'll be easier to build our own anyway.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:39
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Hunnic Justice Act: No Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: Yes The Patriot Act: No Federal Expansion Bill: Abstain OFF Act: No Point 3 is a deal breaker Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: No
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Aug 26, 2014 03:02
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The idea behind the 4 "wings" is that races have innate advantages and we want a good mixture of races for a strong Federation. 50 years from now, the current solar political map will be unimportant. While the Evucks may have the strongest military now, eventually the Burlusts or the Thoraxians will catch up and surpass them due to their innate characteristics.
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Aug 26, 2014 03:02
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Man, fifty years is a long time to try to plan ahead. How do you know the Burlusts and Thoraxians will even still be around by then?
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Aug 26, 2014 03:24
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  Hunnic Justice ActYes: 8 No: 9 Abstain: 2  Permanent Revolution ActYes: 14 No: 5 Abstain: 0 Growing Strong ActYes: 13 No: 6 Abstain: 0  Get the Evucks ActYes: 12 No: 6 Abstain: 1  The Patriot ActYes: 7 No: 9 Abstain: 3 Federal Expansion BillYes: 5 No: 8 Abstain: 6  OFF ActYes: 17 No: 2 Abstain: 0 Post-Federation Stimulus ActYes: 12 No: 3 Abstain: 4 Who the Hell Do You Think We Are Act Yes: 8 No: 8 Abstain: 3 sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 03:33
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I want to take this opportunity to say that we really should be hiring informants and working against our enemies covertly. It's a good step before all out war. As such, I am changing my vote on The Patriot Act to a Yes, despite my strong standing reservations about point #2.
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Aug 26, 2014 03:36
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What happens with a tie vote?
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Aug 26, 2014 03:37
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unwantedplatypus posted:The idea behind the 4 "wings" is that races have innate advantages and we want a good mixture of races for a strong Federation. 50 years from now, the current solar political map will be unimportant. While the Evucks may have the strongest military now, eventually the Burlusts or the Thoraxians will catch up and surpass them due to their innate characteristics. Your wings aren't entirely grounded in their inherent advantages, though. My suggestions if you wish to revise things: Diplomatic: Skylaxians or Acutians. The Andor have no interest in bringing in other species (they lack a Federationist party), but the Acutians are capable of it, should they prove themselves capable of cooperating peaceably. Military: This should be split into Ground and Space arms- the Burlusts are terrible in space conflict, as has been established, and the Peltians have already been assigned the role of space police anyway. Economic: Acutians or Andor. The Skylaxians are neither economically advantaged nor disadvantaged, their place here is somewhat irrelevant. Research: Skylaxians or Evucks. The Skylaxians are phenomenal at research (I daresay the best in the system, all other things equal), and their lack of presence here is somewhat baffling.
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Aug 26, 2014 03:51
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Before I submit my vote, two observations: 1. Doing this right after finalizing my research on the Arizona primary candidates tomorrow sucked. If I read another policy statement again, it'll be too soon. Or maybe just the next vote in this thread, whatever. 2. When filtering by sniper to find the voting template, I had to go to page 12. Holy poo poo dude, you are responsible for over 10% of this thread's posts. Hunnic Justice Act: No Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: No The Patriot Act: No Federal Expansion Bill: No OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: No P.S. Voted no on the Patriot Act on principle. Don't name your legislation off an abomination from the 21st century if you want my vote. Peanut3141 fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 04:10
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Hunnic Justice Act: Yes Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: Abstain The Patriot Act: Abstain Federal Expansion Bill: Abstain OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: No
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Aug 26, 2014 04:49
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In line with my earlier position statement, I'm voting: Hunnic Justice Act: Yes Permanent Revolution Act: Abstain Growing Strong Act: Abstain Get the Evucks Act: Abstain The Patriot Act: Yes Federal Expansion Bill: Yes OFF Act: Abstain Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Abstain WTHDYTWA Act: Yes
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Aug 26, 2014 05:50
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Hunnic Justice Act: Abstain Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: Yes The Patriot Act: Abstain Federal Expansion Bill: Abstain OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: No I'll just follow the leader on this one; I'm exhausted right now. Maybe I'll give them a more thorough once-over of my own in the morning.
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Aug 26, 2014 06:01
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Hunnic Justice Act: Yes Permanent Revolution Act: Abstain Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: Abstain The Patriot Act: Yes To those saying that the second provision requires the recruitment of the Acutions, there's other options listed that are appropriate choices, it simply mandates that we pursue one of the listed races, not necessarily the Acutians. Federal Expansion Bill: No OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: No
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Aug 26, 2014 07:36
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Captain Bravo posted:What happens with a tie vote? Abstains are counted
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Aug 26, 2014 07:37
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Eightfold Unity Party line: Go with your conscience. Hunnic Justice Act: Yes, though once either the Evucks or Acutians are federated, we need to end agitation. Permanent Revolution Act: Yes. Prevents losing weak races, encourages Fed membership. Growing Strong Act: Abstain. Short-termist thinking, balanced out by an incentive to research. Could go either way on this. Get the Evucks Act: Yes. Short, to the point and entirely in line with Eightfold goals. The Patriot Act: Abstain. Undefined enemy error. Federal Expansion Bill: Yes. We need to pull out the stops if we want to win this. OFF Act: Yes Research, outposts, pro federation, sign me up. Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes. Nets us some vital resources. WTHDYTWA Act: Yes. Team Dai-Hydren for great victory!
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Aug 26, 2014 09:36
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Hunnic Justice Act: No Permanent Revolution Act: Yes Growing Strong Act: Yes Get the Evucks Act: Yes The Patriot Act: Yes Federal Expansion Bill: Yes OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Yes WTHDYTWA Act: Yes
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Aug 26, 2014 09:47
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Hunnic Justice Act: Yes Permanent Revolution Act: No Growing Strong Act: No Get the Evucks Act: No The Patriot Act: Abstain Federal Expansion Bill: No OFF Act: Yes Post-Federation Stimulus Act: Abstain WTHDYTWA Act: Yes
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Aug 26, 2014 10:41
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 Hunnic Justice Act: YES! We need to strike down the big guys if we ever want to become the big guys ourselves! Permanent Revolution Act: NO! Stealing outposts from the Burlusts and Thoraxians aren't part of my plan! Having the Evucks in alliance with us I could almost accept if you didn't want to tear down other potential subjects! Growing Strong Act: YES! STRENGTH IS HONOUR! Get the Evucks Act: ABSTAIN Just because I won't vote against the Evucks doesn't mean I will vote for them. The Patriot Act: NO! Sounds like too much bureaucracy and politics! Federal Expansion Bill: ABSTAIN! Not enough bad stuff about the Acutians. OFF Act: YES! I've heard much good about Sky Shadowing! Let's hope they can bring great justice to the Federation! Post-Federation Stimulus Act: YES! Nothing positive about the Acutians in the actual bill, hence I'll allow it! WTHDYTWA Act: YES! I'LL SEE YOU IN THE SKIES OVER ASTRA LIBRA, BURMINA! THE ACUTIANS WILL FACE OUR MIGHT! For once I find myself siding with ANCAP and not with the CI. Owlies, if you want your alliance with us to continue you better stop bashing our friends!
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Aug 26, 2014 11:19
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Luhood posted:
Isn't that covered by everyone else? This is your bag, man. I'm not raiding it from you when there's targets for the both of us, especially not with the new rules on smaller bills.
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Aug 26, 2014 11:52
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