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Blue Star posted:I have nothing insightful to add as to what happened and how. But based on what i've been reading the past few days, and my own feelings (which dont mean much), I feel like Hillary and the Dems were too complacent. The Republicans were too complacent a decade ago, thinking they could just do whatever while giving lip service to socially conservative values. They could gently caress people forever, but as long as they said "I, too, believe marriage is between a man and a woman" or whatever, they could keep doing it indefinitely. Well, this time around, it was the Democrats who did that, but on the opposite end of the spectrum. They thought they didn't have to offer anything concrete or substantial, just wave a rainbow flag around and pretend they're progressive and defenders of civil rights. As a trans person, Hillary and her supporters trying to act like she's pro-LGBT always seemed kinda fake. It's well known that she was anti-gay marriage up until a few years ago, after the writing was on the wall. So when she becomes the candidate and everyone's like "YAS SLAY KWEEEEEE" like she's some progressive crusader who's gonna give those cis-het fuckboys what for, it was grating. Exactly.
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Nov 12, 2016 23:21
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i never really got the gay men that so vocally backed her. i had a bunch of facebook myself. she only came over to gay marriage when it was safe to.
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Nov 12, 2016 23:23
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Groovelord Neato posted:i never really got the gay men that so vocally backed her. i had a bunch of facebook myself. she only came over to gay marriage when it was safe to. At least she came to it. I dunno, ideological purity might not be what people are worried about in this Age of Trump. Not to say she deserved any praise for it, but I think I can understand where some gay men come from.
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Nov 12, 2016 23:40
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i saw that yass queen poo poo before she was even the nominee tho. the other person had a much better lgbt record so that's where my confusion lies.
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Nov 12, 2016 23:52
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MiddleOne posted:You do realize that in two months the sitting president will be someone who has not only confessed to sexual assault on tape but that is also possibly a rapist? That matters a lot more to liberals than conservatives
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Nov 13, 2016 00:05
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theflyingorc posted:That matters a lot more to liberals than conservatives So in your alternate universe the liberal women would then have turned around and voted for Trump...? Or abstained the polls altogether with an actual rapist heading the republican nomination?
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Nov 13, 2016 00:13
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Voter suppression almost certainly played an important role in giving Trump the twin. And too many white people who didn't vote for Trump but didn't care enough about his racist rhetoric (and him sexually assaulting women, being an incompetent imbecile, not actually having any coherent policies, etc.) to vote for Clinton. I blame the media as well for constantly downplaying Trump's many scandals, giving him legitimacy, never calling him out on his lies, while villainizing Hillary and making her out to terrible because EMAILS or PNEUMONIA or whatever other stupid poo poo.
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Nov 13, 2016 00:13
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MiddleOne posted:You do realize that in two months the sitting president will be someone who has not only confessed to sexual assault on tape but that is also possibly a rapist? Trump's actions are irrelevant, nothing he did mattered and he was a unique case. Clinton's Deplorables comment was more damaging long term than his on-tape admission of sexual assault. Bernie's poo poo would have mattered because he didn't have the Trump immunity bubble. It's the same reason Biden would still be considered foot-in-mouth gaffetronic 5000 if he had run, in spite of Trump being the same way.
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Nov 13, 2016 00:17
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MiddleOne posted:So in your alternate universe the liberal women would then have turned around and voted for Trump...? Or abstained the polls altogether with an actual rapist heading the republican nomination? I dunno, they turned away from Clinton for some reason
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Nov 13, 2016 00:19
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Nothing Trump does or says seems to affect him whatsoever. He literally has pushed all of his negatives into a positive of not being a politician. People are tired of politicians so they voted for someone who they thought was not a politician. Reminder the Obstructionism and disenfranchisement works on all people not just one specific group. So the Republican's constant obstructionism only served to just make all politicians hot garbage.
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Nov 13, 2016 00:20
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zegermans posted:Trump's actions are irrelevant, nothing he did mattered and he was a unique case. Clinton's Deplorables comment was more damaging long term than his on-tape admission of sexual assault. Bernie's poo poo would have mattered because he didn't have the Trump immunity bubble. Do you think that Trump has some magic force shield or something? It's clear that his actions hurt his chances, and hence helps explain why he only managed to turn out the Republican base. It's just that Clinton was such a poo poo candidate that this didn't matter.
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Nov 13, 2016 00:34
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trump got fewer votes than the robot that implemented "obamacare" in the state he governed.
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Nov 13, 2016 00:46
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Greataval posted:So I guess we are at the purge part where leftist who sat out get to come and poo poo on the rest of the coalition who bothered to vote. Leftist are so weak can't get organized for midterms or gov races or statehouse races but now it's time. Lol
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Nov 13, 2016 01:40
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I wrote an entire article of what went wrong.
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Nov 13, 2016 01:41
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This is asking the wrong question. The real question is why was it close. It should never have been close. It should have been a blow out of epic proportions.
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Nov 13, 2016 01:56
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Hollismason posted:Nothing Trump does or says seems to affect him whatsoever. He literally has pushed all of his negatives into a positive of not being a politician. People are tired of politicians so they voted for someone who they thought was not a politician. People hating all politics enough to not want to pay attention is one of the most successful tactics of the Republicans. Trump got a pass despite all the absolutely horrifying things he's said and done both because of the underlying sexism and racist lusts of white America, but because the lower information voters ignored it as simple "mudslinging" by a "corrupt" candidate whose "scandals" got so much more attention by most media outlets and the director of the FBI deciding to tip the scales more. Keeping most of the populace ignorant is what helps the reality distortion field they rely on to shift blame so strong.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:07
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Good stuff.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:14
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Blue Star posted:I have nothing insightful to add as to what happened and how. But based on what i've been reading the past few days, and my own feelings (which dont mean much), I feel like Hillary and the Dems were too complacent. The Republicans were too complacent a decade ago, thinking they could just do whatever while giving lip service to socially conservative values. They could gently caress people forever, but as long as they said "I, too, believe marriage is between a man and a woman" or whatever, they could keep doing it indefinitely. Well, this time around, it was the Democrats who did that, but on the opposite end of the spectrum. They thought they didn't have to offer anything concrete or substantial, just wave a rainbow flag around and pretend they're progressive and defenders of civil rights. As a trans person, Hillary and her supporters trying to act like she's pro-LGBT always seemed kinda fake. It's well known that she was anti-gay marriage up until a few years ago, after the writing was on the wall. So when she becomes the candidate and everyone's like "YAS SLAY KWEEEEEE" like she's some progressive crusader who's gonna give those cis-het fuckboys what for, it was grating. This is actually pretty much what happened. As an LGBT person myself, I'm kinda sickened at how Hollywood her stuff got.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:24
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Kilroy posted:Leftists helped the Dems capture most governorships and statehouses ten years ago, and helped get Obama elected. You dumb idiot. Turns out leftists will show up to the polls if you swing the party left. Clinton had a progressive platform and clearly took pains to listen to Sanders and his supporters. Plus, Trump being a fascist racist pig should more than enough to motivate leftists to vote to ensure he doesn't become president.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:24
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Lobsterhead posted:Clinton had a progressive platform and clearly took pains to listen to Sanders and his supporters. Plus, Trump being a fascist racist pig should more than enough to motivate leftists to vote to ensure he doesn't become president. It clearly didn't.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:27
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it's really hard to buy a progressive platform as sincere when the person driving that platform makes in two hours talking to the people that destroyed the economy what the average american makes in over a decade. not everyone's gonna buy someone being a traitor to their class - who else has been one besides fdr?
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Nov 13, 2016 02:29
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Is it really a huge mystery why the Dems lost? They completely abandoned labor and helped burn the swath of industrialized and rural corridors to the ground. Who knew that wholeheartedly embracing neoliberalism would backfire?
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Nov 13, 2016 02:34
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's really hard to buy a progressive platform as sincere when the person driving that platform makes in two hours talking to the people that destroyed the economy what the average american makes in over a decade. TR
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Nov 13, 2016 02:34
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Pollyanna posted:It clearly didn't. I know? It SHOULD have been enough, though. It disturbs me that Trump pretty much being a white supremacist wasn't enough to motivate people. Far too many people (particularly white people) were complacent IMO.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:46
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Lobsterhead posted:Clinton had a progressive platform and clearly took pains to listen to Sanders and his supporters. Plus, Trump being a fascist racist pig should more than enough to motivate leftists to vote to ensure he doesn't become president. Clinton is clearly the champion of the left. HillaryClinton2016 posted:"Everybody who’s ever been in an election that I’m aware of is quite bewildered because there is a strain of, on the one hand, the kind of populist, nationalist, xenophobic, discriminatory kind of approach that we hear too much of from the Republican candidates. And on the other side, there’s just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free healthcare, that what we’ve done hasn’t gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know, go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means, and half the people don’t know what that means, but it’s something that they deeply feel. So as a friend of mine said the other day, I am occupying from the center-left to the center-right. And I don’t have much company there. Because it is difficult when you’re running to be president, and you understand how hard the job is — I don’t want to overpromise. I don’t want to tell people things that I know we cannot do."
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Nov 13, 2016 02:46
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Lobsterhead posted:Clinton had a progressive platform and clearly took pains to listen to Sanders and his supporters. Plus, Trump being a fascist racist pig should more than enough to motivate leftists to vote to ensure he doesn't become president.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:47
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Pollyanna posted:It clearly didn't. Lobsterhead posted:Clinton had a progressive platform The progressive candidate with such accolades as bullying third world nations to slash their minimum wage, backing bloody coups against democratically elected governments, and pushing sales of fracking equipment and rights on developing nations. Yes truly the people's champion.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:52
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Lobsterhead posted:I know? It SHOULD have been enough, though. It disturbs me that Trump pretty much being a white supremacist wasn't enough to motivate people. Far too many people (particularly white people) were complacent IMO. Fear is usually a good motivator. But since 2001, fear has been beaten to death. It's been nothing but a constant drum beat of fear. If it wasn't so over used it probably would have worked, but the climate was wrong to rely on Trumps negatives.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:53
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BAD POSTER ALERT!
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Kilroy posted:I agree the platform is actually important but most people don't. I also think who you surround yourself with is important and welp. The only thing the majority of voters care about is appearance. They don't know what the issues, policies, or facts are. They can't even fathom how a politicians actions influence their lives. That is why you have idiots vote for a politician that takes away their healthcare. I care about the issues, but maybe the Democrats can smarten up and actually win elections. Democrats should just groom popular celebrities for presidency. Or a potato. A Democrat POTATO would have won more votes than Hillary.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:00
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:The only thing the majority of voters care about is appearance. They don't know what the issues, policies, or facts are. They can't even fathom how a politicians actions influence their lives. That is why you have idiots vote for a politician that takes away their healthcare. I care about the issues, but maybe the Democrats can smarten up and actually win elections. Let's not forget that morons still like to work off of "fairness" so that the two parties must automatically switch every eight years no matter what. Never underestimate the idiocy of the electorate. Even if one party has openly stated that they will sabotage the nation for years if they don't win it all and have spent years proving it. Especially when bigotry, sexism, and anti-intellectualism are given such validation. Indigofreak posted:Fear is usually a good motivator. But since 2001, fear has been beaten to death. It's been nothing but a constant drum beat of fear. If it wasn't so over used it probably would have worked, but the climate was wrong to rely on Trumps negatives. Fear seemed to work wonders for Trump. He pulled out all the stock white America horror stories in the loudest, dumbest voice and got them flocking to his tent despite perpetually making an rear end of himself.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:08
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Geostomp posted:Fear seemed to work wonders for Trump. He pulled out all the stock white America horror stories in the loudest, dumbest voice and got them flocking to his tent despite perpetually making an rear end of himself. he also offered hope. donald trump could do anything anytime, and he was gonna fix all the bad things that were scary. but only if he was elected
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Nov 13, 2016 03:17
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Clinton copy-pasted some Bernie positions on a website and basically never talked about them. Her messaging was loving useless. https://twitter.com/czechov/status/795409849072971777
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Nov 13, 2016 03:20
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Clinton did adopt Sanders rhetoric briefly during the first debate. After that, it went out the window. I also feel it's kind of disingenuous to say her policies were the same as Sanders. They may vote on legislation similar, but if both had the power to enact whatever legislation they wanted, they would look notably different. LinYutang posted:Clinton copy-pasted some Bernie positions on a website and basically never talked about them. Her messaging was loving useless. This makes it no mystery.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:30
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This circular firing squad is so depressing.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:40
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Democrats didn't Pokemon Go to the polls.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:47
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Number Two Stunna posted:Democrats didn't Pokemon Go to the polls. They literally did not do that, and they didn't do that thing where they said they'd put taco trucks at polling stations.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:52
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LinYutang posted:Clinton copy-pasted some Bernie positions on a website and basically never talked about them. Her messaging was loving useless. This what has been driving me crazy talking to Clinton supporters. Her platform doesn't matter if no one knows what it is and no one trusts her to enact it. Putting it on your website means nothing if all your ads are about how you totally can't vote for Trump.
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Nov 13, 2016 05:05
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MiddleOne posted:You do realize that in two months the sitting president will be someone who has not only confessed to sexual assault on tape but that is also possibly a rapist? It's just locker room talk though no big deal, right? And the women accusing him of rape are just faking it for the attention. Why else would they wait until right before the election to come out like this? They must have been paid off by Killary! (The number of times I've seen that excuse on social media absolutely sickens me.)
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Nov 13, 2016 05:20
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Dexie posted:It's just locker room talk though no big deal, right? The one benefit of getting into the conspiracy theory mindset is that you can start dismissing literally anything that doesn't fit your world-view. There's no proof, no witness testimony, no rational thought that can prove your baseless assumptions wrong. You are an outsider and you can perceive the truth denied to the helpless masses of sheep. It's no wonder that people that start dabbling in conspiracy theories even just a little incrementally become bat-poo poo insane if left within their echo chambers.
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Nov 13, 2016 07:08
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Has anyone kicking around the "maybe their feelings were hurt for being called racist" talking point offered any solutions on how to address that while still combating bigotry, or is it always empty concern trolling?
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Nov 13, 2016 07:09
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