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I just remembered that author I was thinking of earlier! You want something that portrays Nazis in a heroic light? Then you should check out Watch on the Rhine by Tom Kratman!quote:The novel focuses on the invasion of Europe by the alien Posleen, with an emphasis on Germany. Part of the technology brought to humans by the Galactics is the ability to rejuvenate old soldiers, so that countries can draw on their combat experiences. In Germany, this leads to the controversial decision to reactivate the Waffen-SS. Rejuvinated Waffen-SS lead humanity to victory against alien invaders and the dread specter of environmentalism, truly a must-read for the ages.
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Dec 19, 2014 09:44
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Young Lions has a story line that concerns a young German soldier who at first thinks the Nazis are good for Germany but later comes to hate what they and the war have done to the country. The movie adaptation of the book stars Marlon Brando in that role.
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Dec 19, 2014 10:40
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Considering the fact that the soldiers BJ's killed after waking up from a 14 year coma were either 1) purging an asylum and everyone who worked in it on orders of Deathshead, 2) were guards at a station shooting at us as we frantically tried to escape past them, or 3) were involved either directly or as support staff for a prison run by Deathshead and who apparently did some torturing and what not on the side, I have a real hard time feeling bad for any of the pretend-soldier's pretend families. Again, they're Nazis. Fascism doesn't exactly mellow very well. There's a book called, I want to say Fatherland? Murder mystery involving a SS investigator in a world where the Nazis won who's trying to solve this conspiracy of why on earth all of these former officers and what not keep getting killed off. It's because the Nazis are purging the remaining folks who knew about the Final Solution in order to finish rewriting history. There's also The Bunker, a horror movie involving a bunch of retreating Wehrmacht soldiers trapped in a bunker. I remember renting that with a group of friends for a night of lovely movies and lovely beer, only for us to get absorbed in to a pretty well-made movie.
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Dec 19, 2014 10:51
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It's unfortunate this game is paired with such a terrible engine. I'm no graphics whore and I do like the look of the game, but I don't think it's justified to have texture artifacts galore just from moving the camera and the overall performance on a HD7950B is really crappy for this quality level of visuals.
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Dec 19, 2014 11:47
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Pvt.Scott posted:Are there any games/movies/books Not quite one of the threem but there's this Stargate AU timeline_ http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/stellar-reich-stargate-au-timeline.305012/
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Dec 19, 2014 11:52
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Kai Tave posted:I just remembered that author I was thinking of earlier! You want something that portrays Nazis in a heroic light? Then you should check out Watch on the Rhine by Tom Kratman! Posleen? I've heard of those! I think. And if I've heard of those, that poo poo poo poo must have gone mainstream. How the gently caress did the book which praises Waffen SS get that big? citybeatnik posted:There's a book called, I want to say Fatherland? Murder mystery involving a SS investigator in a world where the Nazis won who's trying to solve this conspiracy of why on earth all of these former officers and what not keep getting killed off. It's because the Nazis are purging the remaining folks who knew about the Final Solution in order to finish rewriting history. Hey, I read that too. Berlin is described basically like in the game. englerp posted:Not quite one of the threem but there's this Stargate AU timeline_ Jesus, how long is that one?!
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Dec 19, 2014 12:49
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JcDent posted:Jesus, how long is that one?! A few of those pages are comments.
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Dec 19, 2014 12:53
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Pvt.Scott posted:Are there any games/movies/books (besides neo-nazi poo poo, I guess) that portray any of the Nazis as sympathetic characters, or even the heroes? Like, yeah, Nazis are fuckin' terrible, but people aren't all one thing, all the time. The movie Der Untergang (Downfall in English, I think) was at its release criticized for portraying leading Nazis as human beings; the movie describes the last few days in the Führerbunker before Hitler offs himself, with all the drama one'd expect. In particular Speer is portrayed as a somewhat tragic figure, deservedly or not.
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Dec 19, 2014 16:56
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Inglorious Basterds kind of touched on the "Nazis are people and the Allies could be fuckers" thing with the sergeant who gets bludgeoned to death after refusing to give up troop positions and the kid in the bar who's first son was just born and tries to make a deal with Brad Pitt before Pitt reneges and murders him. At the same time, most of that movie's Nazis were clearly bad people and most of its Allies were good people so it didn't go whole hog into the Clean Wehrmacht.
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Dec 19, 2014 17:12
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1stGear posted:Inglorious Basterds kind of touched on the "Nazis are people and the Allies could be fuckers" thing with the sergeant who gets bludgeoned to death after refusing to give up troop positions and the kid in the bar who's first son was just born and tries to make a deal with Brad Pitt before Pitt reneges and murders him. How much does Fury play into that? In an unrelated matter, Inglorious and Fury seem like such contrasting roles for Pitt.
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Dec 19, 2014 17:22
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Pvt.Scott posted:Are there any games/movies/books (besides neo-nazi poo poo, I guess) that portray any of the Nazis as sympathetic characters, or even the heroes? Like, yeah, Nazis are fuckin' terrible, but people aren't all one thing, all the time. You might be interested in Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter, a German TV-Miniseries (3 90 minute episodes) released last year. While it has not been dubbed in English, you can find English subtitles online. It tells the stories of five friends and their lives between 1941 and 1946, and how they cope (or don't) with the ideology and the realities of the war.
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Dec 19, 2014 18:19
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JcDent posted:How much does Fury play into that? Fury could have gone a lot further and more creatively than it did. I can talk further when not phone posting, but my general opinion is that the film starts out looking like it'll depict the war with more gray morality and humanize the German military but falters and falls into the classic tropes and characterization. Wardaddy's motivations and PTSD are hinted at early on, only to get dropped when inconvenient to the desired "heroic last stand" plot.
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Dec 19, 2014 18:21
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Here's a playlist for anyone just coming in, I figured it may be a help.
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Dec 19, 2014 18:31
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I played quite a bit of this game and other shooters before. That's my only thought after watching this LP. Best Regards, RG
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Dec 19, 2014 18:33
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RichardGamingo posted:I played quite a bit of this game and other shooters before. That's my only thought after watching this LP. Happy you're here, Richie G 
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Dec 19, 2014 18:40
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This could possibly interest some of you: Napola: Elite für den Führer (Eng. Title: Before the Fall) It's about a boy who works in a factory town whose impressive boxing skills get him an invitation to a National Political Academy (NaPolA - Special schools created to produce the next generation of elite Nazis), and his father (who is NOT pro Nazi) objects, but the kid ignores him and begins to live the Nazi ideal. Spoiler alert, it isn't ideal, and his thoughts change.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:09
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Thanks for the media suggestions, I have some cool stuff to check out. I think that alt-history alien invasion story was probably written by Harry Turtledove. Sounds like his brand of insane.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:13
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Band of Brothers was pretty good on the soldier aspect of WWII, where most of the German soldiers were just that, soldiers doing their job. One of the German soldiers in the series is even American, he's there because his parents dragged him home. The majority of the soldiers later in the war did not care much about Nazi ideals and cared more for their Fatherland, much like American soldiers fight for America, not Congress. It would probably be the same in the game, Any high ranking official would be related to Nazi, its a government and leading position not a grunt thing, so while many grunts may agree most are likely just doing their job in a way they believe is the best for their world. Nobody goes around trying to be evil.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:19
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Should also remember that the grunts are propaganda'd out of their minds. When the Nazis invaded Poland, the soldiers believed the German population at Gdansk was being persecuted; same when they were rolling here: there's records of German soldiers distributing free food around Prague because they've been told the country suffers from famine and they're there to make things better. Mind you, at the same time, officers were raiding confectioneries because those had a much better selection than in the Vaterland...
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Dec 19, 2014 19:27
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Pvt.Scott posted:I think that alt-history alien invasion story was probably written by Harry Turtledove. Sounds like his brand of insane. Turtledove's Worldwar and Colonization series dealt with this, where WWII gets interrupted by an alien invasion. The book mentioned isn't the same one, though, as the aliens in Turtledove's book call themselves "The Race". Possibly the best part of it is that instead of the "Let's overcome our differences and fight the greater evil!" viewpoint, it goes with the "We're so taxed with saving ourselves from the aliens that we don't have time to care about human enemies," which leads to some really interesting happenings in later books as these political powers deal with each other.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:40
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Pvt.Scott posted:Thanks for the media suggestions, I have some cool stuff to check out. The Posleen War series is actually by John Ringo, who's his own brand of far right wing mil sci-fi craziness.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:51
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WirelessPillow posted:Band of Brothers was pretty good on the soldier aspect of WWII, where most of the German soldiers were just that, soldiers doing their job. One of the German soldiers in the series is even American, he's there because his parents dragged him home. Someone in the game puts it this way: "Everyone is becoming a Nazi or pretending to have become a Nazi, which is making them act like a Nazi."
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Dec 19, 2014 19:53
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BTW anilEhilated, you can shut up about the grenades now. We get it.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:33
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Kai Tave posted:The Posleen War series is actually by John Ringo, who's his own brand of far right wing mil sci-fi craziness. This sort of stuff was nicely skewered by The Iron Dream.  An interesting "Clean Wehrmacht" one, largely because of it being a twist on the standard 70's British boy's war comic strip, is Hellman of Hammer Force.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:09
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Blind Sally posted:Happy you're here, Richie G He immediately got probated. His first posts in a month and first in Let's Play since October. Good night, sweet prince.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:20
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Lazyfire posted:He immediately got probated. His first posts in a month and first in Let's Play since October. Good night, sweet prince. He still signs his posts the same way, even... I wrote a thing a while ago about using Nazis as bad guys in video games. Here's a link if anyone gives a poo poo, but the gist of my point is that while Nazis are considered a good candidate for an enemy we don't have to feel bad about killing I'm inclined to question the need for such an enemy in any medium.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:24
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Gargamel Gibson posted:BTW anilEhilated, you can shut up about the grenades now. We get it. Hey, I think I posted whole three times without mentioning them.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:32
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Night10194 posted:Someone in the game puts it this way: "Everyone is becoming a Nazi or pretending to have become a Nazi, which is making them act like a Nazi." Sure but nothing in Nazi idealism says to act like a jerk, besides the rather large anti Jewish issue. like someone else said they would all be affected by propaganda, just like everyone was after they lost in real life. I'm not saying that the Nazi world here is a nice one, but for most civilians, police and grunt military its probably nice enough, a home, a job and a government that looks like it cares. anilEhilated posted:Hey, I think I posted whole three times without mentioning them. Slacker. though I personally didn't have problems with grenades, I seemed to have enough for most of the game, not including the prison escape.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:29
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WirelessPillow posted:Sure but nothing in Nazi idealism says to act like a jerk, besides the rather large anti Jewish issue. like someone else said they would all be affected by propaganda, just like everyone was after they lost in real life. Having the Shoah summed up as a "rather large anti Jewish issue" is mindblowing. It was anti other. Anyone who didn't fit the state-mandated paragon of perfection, or who didn't subscribe to the state-mandated societal norms. And to alleviate any suspicion you might have thrown your way, you would rat out your friends and coworkers, leading to this paranoid totalitarian situation where everyone's spying on one another. I'd give examples, but the game'll touch on that later so I don't want to jump the bullet.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:20
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citybeatnik posted:Having the Shoah summed up as a "rather large anti Jewish issue" is mindblowing. Jews weren't the only targets of the Holocaust, either. The Roma and German homosexuals would like to have a word with Nazi apologists.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:22
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citybeatnik posted:Having the Shoah summed up as a "rather large anti Jewish issue" is mindblowing. Yeah, what people seemed to forget is that Nazis were very much against people who weren't Germans or didn't look like an idealised version of one. BJ, however, only lacks a glorious mane of blonde hair, since he already has eyes as blue as mountain lakes and a jaw to end all jaws. Like I said, it's very weird that the Polish are living unmolested like that. On the other hand, they probably survived for gameplay purposes or maybe Deathshead hosed around with Squarestache, maybe something changed in the process of conquering the world. But the jews and the romani are all up in smoke by 1960s, that for sure. And aside from "look like super model or else" angle, what 'beatnik is also a good example of life in Soviet Union. For that matter, a joke! Three inmates in a Siberian camp are chatting. "So, why are you here?" The first guy: "I told a joke" Then second guy: "I head a joke" Third guy: "Laziness. Heard a joke a joke in a party, thought about telling the KGB on the way home, told myself "gently caress it, I'll do it tomorrow". Got arrested in the morning"
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Dec 20, 2014 03:39
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If someone already said this I am really sorry , I looked to try and make sure I wasn't parroting someone but when you are in the control room after letting fergus and the others out of their shackles you can hotwire a control panel to shut down all the turrets. Its off to the left of the button you press with fergus you can see it in the video. (The only reason I point this out is I picked this game up after seeing this LP and how great the game is. I am staying slightly ahead of the LP and this is the very first thing I have found that lazy hasnt. However lazy has found just about 100% more secrets than me  )
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Dec 20, 2014 04:43
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JcDent posted:Three inmates in a Siberian camp are chatting. The version I heard went like this: Inmate A: "Why are you in the gulag?" Inmate B: "I spoke out against [Political Figure]. You?" Inmate A: "I supported [Political Figure]. What about you, Inmate C? Why are you in here?" Inmate C: "I am [Political Figure]." Cythereal posted:Jews weren't the only targets of the Holocaust, either. The Roma and German homosexuals would like to have a word with Nazi apologists. Basically, if you weren't Aryan, you were exterminated. The guy talking about how his grandmother saying the Nazis were gentleman and the Soviets were monsters really missed the point of the Nazis- the only reason his grandma got off easy was because she was racially acceptable. Whatever the Soviets did to the Czechs, the Germans visited upon them first. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing the Soviets, and I'm not saying they were the good guys in the equation (look up the Holodomor sometime); I'm just saying that it's  -inducing to me for anyone to sympathize with God-damned Nazis.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:04
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Nazis killed those with mental issues (I'd be dead) birth defects or congenital conditions, communists, anarchists, homosexuals, Jews, Roma, whatever. The invalids in hospitals and asylums in Germany just started disappearing. It started out slow and quiet, but just got faster and more obvious as time went on. Then they built Prora, a crime against aesthetic architecture, for which we knew the Nazis must be ground into dust. I figure by the 60s, the Nazis would have the locals in whatever conquered region picking and choosing their own undesirables. Let the untermenchen sort themselves out. E: another old joke. Best played when responding to a holocaust joke. A: hey, man. That's not cool! My grandfather died in a concentration camp! B:oh, wow. I'm sorry man. I was just kidding around. A: Don't worry about it man, it's cool. He died falling out of a guard tower. EE: short and amusing documentary about hideous nazi architecture. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 05:24
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The war against undesirables still wages amongst the 'pure' germans as well. As the upcoming base segment and a couple of others will help illustrate.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:29
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Pvt.Scott posted:
That is such an enjoyable episode. Pro click
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Dec 20, 2014 07:19
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CommissarMega posted:Basically, if you weren't Aryan, you were exterminated. The guy talking about how his grandmother saying the Nazis were gentleman and the Soviets were monsters really missed the point of the Nazis- the only reason his grandma got off easy was because she was racially acceptable. Whatever the Soviets did to the Czechs, the Germans visited upon them first.
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Dec 20, 2014 09:00
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anilEhilated posted:That'd be me and I mentioned that specifically in the Wehrmacht discussion, talking about their behavior during the invasion. No question of Nazi atrocities here - Grandma had a lot to tell about those too, having done forced labor in Germany. To clarify, I'm in no way supporting or sympathizing with the Nazis. Same here, its not Nazis I am sympathizing with, but the soldiers essentially caught in the crossfire. though most levels are set in places where most soldiers likely are Nazis.
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Dec 20, 2014 09:28
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ZeusCannon posted:That is such an enjoyable episode. Pro click You know, Civilization V shows Prora as this cool, fuckhuge resort that looks closer to Imperial architecture or the massive building in Alt Berlin than, well, a row of mid cold war Soviet apartment blocks. Also, "Goering though that small rooms weaken the people". Sure, him not fitting in a small room had nothing to do with it.
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Dec 20, 2014 09:49
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Thing to remember is that by and large, people do in fact "just follow orders". When somebody with perceived authority claims responsibility for a person's actions when following those orders, and orders that person to do something horrific, a person's natural inclination is to do as they're told. They might feel horrible about it later, or even at the time, but they'll do it. Look up Stanley Milgram's study from the 1960's.
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Dec 20, 2014 15:29
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