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Walrus Pete posted:I bet those are the only three examples of decent characters you can give, though. Maybe you could make an argument for the drunkard uncle too. As for DAO's combat, it had actual depth to it, was used well (more often than not, anyway), and also got some bonus points among fans for being kind of like the Infinity Engine games. DA2's combat was mechanically sound but got put to incredibly tedious use. The problem with DAO's combat was that it simply failed in trying to be a good Infinity Engine combat. I played BG2 enhanced edition recently and I was once again reminded that DAO's combat was slow and boring, while BG's combat was really fun. Perhaps it's me, but I could not enjoy it at all. DA2's combat was much more engaging, and the cross class combos were quite nice if you managed to pull them off. I haven't seen anything approaching the depth of cross class combos in Origins.
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May 31, 2014 09:20
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Policenaut posted:My favorite part was the console release where they just forgot to include auto-attack so every fight was essentially a far more tedious, rigid version of Dynasty Warriors. That was intentional. They wanted you to experience button-awesome connection in every waking moment.
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May 31, 2014 09:21
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Torrannor posted:The problem with DAO's combat was that it simply failed in trying to be a good Infinity Engine combat. I played BG2 enhanced edition recently and I was once again reminded that DAO's combat was slow and boring, while BG's combat was really fun. Perhaps it's me, but I could not enjoy it at all. DA2's combat was much more engaging, and the cross class combos were quite nice if you managed to pull them off. I haven't seen anything approaching the depth of cross class combos in Origins. Origins has combos, they're just all mage-only. Class balance? What's that?  Yes the cross-class combos were cool (but IMO too limited) but there was also never a need to use them. And then we're back to the point about encounter and enemy design. Origins had less impressive tools for you to use, but you actually had reason to use them.
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May 31, 2014 09:25
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Walrus Pete posted:Threat/aggro management mattered, crowd control was very important, and using debuffs on strong enemies actually made a noticeable difference.
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May 31, 2014 09:31
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Raygereio posted:DA2 spells had debuffs. Its mechanica had aggro management and crowd control; They weren't put to good use, but that was because the lovely encounter design. Yeah, that's exactly my point. Having the tools there doesn't mean poo poo if they're not put to use. If you could uproot DA2's combat mechanics and put them into Origins, it'd probably be really cool.
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May 31, 2014 09:34
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I actually like Fenris because his romantic arc actually has a unique aspect to it that no other romance Bioware attempts, where Fenris is not actually emotionally prepared for an actual relationship and calls it off after you stick your Hawke in him (or vice versa) for a couple of years. You could argue the same thing is attempted for Jack in Mass Effect 2, but the short period the game encompasses really doesn't flesh out any meaningful-feeling character development other than Shepard cock saving an emo girl. Anders, Merill, and Isabela are all total washes though and should have had major aspects of their characterization on the drafting board, Carver is pretty endearing personally and Bethany and Sebastian are too archetypical to really incite any major emotions. steakmancer fucked around with this message at 10:33 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 10:30
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Aerie tells you to back the hell off on the morning after if you move too fast with her. And, best I remember, Viconia delays matters into Throne of Bhaal from Shadows of Amn because she has to get to grips with the relationship too.
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May 31, 2014 14:11
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If nothing else, the combat in DA2 is much worse due to the lack of a detached overhead camera. The fight with the UI was the biggest boss battle.
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May 31, 2014 14:15
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Nevertheless I think it was a surprisingly keen plot move in a game completely devoid of them to physically engage Fenris and have the result not just be a one-dimensional positive move in the relationship.
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May 31, 2014 14:16
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steakmancer posted:I actually like Fenris because his romantic arc actually has a unique aspect to it that no other romance Bioware attempts, where Fenris is not actually emotionally prepared for an actual relationship and calls it off after you stick your Hawke in him (or vice versa) for a couple of years. That is also basically Morrigan's romance. It starts as a one-night stand, she breaks it off because she can't handle how she starts to feel towards the Warden, then eventually she accepts her feelings.
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May 31, 2014 14:28
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I am disappointed, looking over what's currently known, that Inquisition will have a grand total of three female companions out of nine. Given Bioware's recent record, I assume it will be similar to ME3 and TOR: every female character is a romance option. Although I suppose it's possible that Inquisition will include more characters like Traynor and Cortez from ME3, well-developed supporting characters who aren't part of the field team but are very much part of the general cast.
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May 31, 2014 14:32
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Xoidanor posted:More like there's a small very vocal group that despite the bland gameplay, awful characters and non-existent story somehow absolutely adore the game. But neither Pick nor I, nor most people who enjoy DA2 claim to 'adore' it? To my knowledge the commonality is claiming it's a good game, but a flawed one and certainly not a great game. Your claims aren't born out in reality. But hey we can keep acting like the game is a literal war crime if that's more fun
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May 31, 2014 14:39
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Are you trying to say that mediocre sequels aren't warcrimes?
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May 31, 2014 14:48
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Xoidanor posted:Are you trying to say that mediocre sequels aren't warcrimes? My perspective is probably skewed because I consider most Bioware games mediocre to good, and I don't see DA2 as much of a deviation from their norm. I mean poo poo the original Mass Effect gets a free pass for like 90% of the same flaws DA2 has.
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May 31, 2014 14:56
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Captain Oblivious posted:I mean poo poo the original Mass Effect gets a free pass for like 90% of the same flaws DA2 has. Could you please clarify?
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May 31, 2014 15:08
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Disco Infiva posted:Could you please clarify? Heavy reliance on generic areas, recycling of said generic areas, lovely sidequests, boring loot. Meatgrinder gameplay against total chump enemies, need I go on? Mass Effect 1 is like the poster child for style over substance. Half it's characters are either A) Talking almanacs for <insert species> or B) Recycled Bioware Character. The actual gunplay was pretty poo poo too. Those last two criticisms were Mass Effect 1 specific and not shared issues in case it wasn't clear. Just wanted to make it clear that I think a lot of beloved Bioware games have serious problems that are overshadowed by what they do do well. With Bioware, the majority of their strength is in presentation though as a general rule. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jun 1, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 15:12
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Cythereal posted:I am disappointed, looking over what's currently known, that Inquisition will have a grand total of three female companions out of nine. Given Bioware's recent record, I assume it will be similar to ME3 and TOR: every female character is a romance option. Although I suppose it's possible that Inquisition will include more characters like Traynor and Cortez from ME3, well-developed supporting characters who aren't part of the field team but are very much part of the general cast. I think that's what they're going to go for, yeah. Leliana is not a playable companion but will be helping the Inquisitor, Cullen is not announced as a playable companion but his voice actor has hinted he's got a romance, and there's one character in the big line up picture that I don't know the name of who looks suspiciously like she's supposed to be romance material.
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May 31, 2014 15:21
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Captain Oblivious posted:My perspective is probably skewed because I consider most Bioware games mediocre to good, and I don't see DA2 as much of a deviation from their norm. That's probably where my and your viewpoint differ. I think that their games have been nosediving ever since ME2 hit the shelves. The first Mass Effect had its flaws and Bioware decided to resolve them by simply removing them all together rather then fixing them. The ammo system, gun modding and inventory system was simply thrown under the bus. There was also an increased focus on companions (and romances because of course) which manifested in 80% of the games content being recruiting your followers and doing each one of their specific loyalty missions. I didn't really like these changes but I slogged trough the game anyway and left on a sour note after the awful final boss. Its biggest offense was being good but bland while Mass Effect was kinda wonky but interesting. Then the exact same studio made DA2 immediately after ME2 and of course it had mostly the same flaws but worse. It hit harder this time though because (unlike with Mass Effect) Dragon Age Origins actually did get it mostly right already. There was no reason to go around and radically so much for the worse. Then there was the rushed development cycle but I blame EA for that one. 
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May 31, 2014 15:23
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Schubalts posted:That is also basically Morrigan's romance. It starts as a one-night stand, she breaks it off because she can't handle how she starts to feel towards the Warden, then eventually she accepts her feelings. Let me have good things about Dragon Age II
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May 31, 2014 15:25
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Xoidanor posted:That's probably where my and your viewpoint differ. I think that their games have been nosediving ever since ME2 hit the shelves. The first Mass Effect had its flaws and Bioware decided to resolve them by simply removing them all together rather then fixing them. The ammo system, gun modding and inventory system was simply thrown under the bus. There was also an increased focus on companions (and romances because of course) which manifested in 80% of the games content being recruiting your followers and doing each one of their specific loyalty missions. I didn't really like these changes but I slogged trough the game anyway and left on a sour note after the awful final boss. Its biggest offense was being good but bland while Mass Effect was kinda wonky but interesting. I kind of struggle to see similarities between ME2 and DA2  Like, for example it doesn't have nearly the companion focus that ME2 does which is your chief cited flaw so I'm not really sure what to make of that. I could get into the ammo/gun mod/inventory system of ME1, but I'll just not. Suffice it to say people who adore the ammo/gun mod/inventory system of ME1 merely help convince me more that people are more in love with the idea of what ME1 was trying to be, rather than what it was.
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May 31, 2014 15:28
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Having a variety of guns and modifications for those guns was a good idea in theory, but man was the implementation in ME1 lovely. And I say that as someone who beat the game at least six times with 100% completion, so I'm mentally unwell and still think the gun system was bad. I think ME2 was a step in the right direction, and I think ME3 did the gun variety and mods system much better. edit: Wait, poo poo, Mass Effect derail! Uh, so, how about that Inquisition!? marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 15:38 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 15:35
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In DA3, will I be able to mod my sword with explosive sharpness which causes every hit to do 500% splash damage but also causes it to overheat after one hit?
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May 31, 2014 15:57
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Mymla posted:In DA3, will I be able to mod my sword with explosive sharpness which causes every hit to do 500% splash damage but also causes it to overheat after one hit? The best modification 
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May 31, 2014 16:06
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Mymla posted:In DA3, will I be able to mod my sword with explosive sharpness which causes every hit to do 500% splash damage but also causes it to overheat after one hit? I'm still trying to understand what it means to enchant my sword with sonic damage in Neverwinter Nights, once I figure that out I can answer your question.
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May 31, 2014 16:07
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Well Fire swords are confirmed, so Sandal may have some Inferno or Flaming Burst enchantments lined up for you. That's one thing I didn't like so much about DAO: the enchantment system was boring. I hope my flaming sword can set people on fire and my ice sword can freeze them, and if I enchant a sword with both, people should explode like thermite on a block of ice.
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May 31, 2014 16:07
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Torrannor posted:I'm still trying to understand what it means to enchant my sword with sonic damage in Neverwinter Nights, once I figure that out I can answer your question. "OW! MY EARS!"
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May 31, 2014 16:08
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Torrannor posted:I'm still trying to understand what it means to enchant my sword with sonic damage in Neverwinter Nights, once I figure that out I can answer your question. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u8wBfDtZkE&t=6s
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May 31, 2014 16:10
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Edit: Whoops, nevermind.
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May 31, 2014 16:13
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Yeah I like enchanting weapons to do ridiculous things, it's a good time. The first Torchlight really let me go nuts with this before they patched a disenchant chance onto the guy who enchanted weapons. poo poo YES BREAK THE DISPLAY WITH THE NUMBER OF ENCHANTMENTS GOGOGO
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May 31, 2014 16:17
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Captain Oblivious posted:Heavy reliance on generic areas, recycling of said generic areas, lovely sidequests, boring loot. Meatgrinder gameplay against total chump enemies, need I go on? Mass Effect 1 is like the poster child for style over substance. Half it's characters are either A) Talking almanacs for <insert species> or B) Recycled Bioware Character. The actual gunplay was pretty poo poo too. Those last two criticisms were Mass Effect 1 specific and not shared issues in case it wasn't clear. Of all the things ME1 did poorly, bad sidequests were not one of them. Yes, the areas were copypaste/random height maps. But they often played out in unique ways. After going through lovely prefab bunker #27 you might have to talk down a terrorist with a hostage, or decide what to do with a band of rogue scientists. It was far better than what 2 had. Sure, the second game had pretty areas. But I can't think of more than 2 missions where you didn't just land, kill all the dudes and leave. The fact that the same three mercenary companies ran every site in the galaxy didn't help with the sense of scale, either. And then of course three more or less cut sidequests altogether.
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May 31, 2014 16:25
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Torrannor posted:I'm still trying to understand what it means to enchant my sword with sonic damage in Neverwinter Nights, once I figure that out I can answer your question.
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May 31, 2014 16:46
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Captain Oblivious posted:Heavy reliance on generic areas, recycling of said generic areas, lovely sidequests, boring loot. Meatgrinder gameplay against total chump enemies, need I go on? DA2 does all of these things significantly worse. Captain Oblivious posted:Half it's characters are either A) Talking almanacs for <insert species> or B) Recycled Bioware Character. Well, DA2 certainly has a unique cast, I'll grant you that! :V At least in ME1 you can just crew up with Garrus and Wrex after the introduction and more or less forget about everybody else.
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May 31, 2014 16:53
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Captain Oblivious posted:Heavy reliance on generic areas, recycling of said generic areas, lovely sidequests, boring loot. Meatgrinder gameplay against total chump enemies, need I go on? I'd take the long corridors of the few important planets and pallet swamped searchable wastelands of ME1 over the same basement/cave/Kirkwall city scape in which every thug fell out of the sky to try and fight you. At least ME1 felt like it had more than 3 backgrounds to use.
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May 31, 2014 17:29
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Walrus Pete posted:Threat/aggro management mattered, crowd control was very important, and using debuffs on strong enemies actually made a noticeable difference. Off the top of my head. You got that from Origins? I suppose I missed that when I was playing a two handed weapon warrior who despite wielding a massive sword could only seem to hit one enemy at a time with all the force of using a loving wiffle ball bat. Even when playing as a rouge and was doing actual damage combat still felt dull and lifeless. For all it's flaws with the never ending waves, there was a certain pleasure of just wading into a group of enemies and seeing all their health bars decrease each time you swung your sword. In general II seemed to understand a bit more about class balance then Origins which like the system it was based off of was just the mage power hour. Also I know II reused rooms and dungeons to the point of insanity, but with sections such as the deep road and the fade
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May 31, 2014 17:38
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Kajeesus posted:DA2 does all of these things significantly worse. Having played them both within the last year I can confidently say that no, it really doesn't. It is the exact same style of bullshit.
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May 31, 2014 19:13
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Captain Oblivious posted:Having played them both within the last year I can confidently say that no, it really doesn't. It is the exact same style of bullshit. I have trouble complaining about the reused parts of ME1 when it also had procedurally generated planets for you to fling yourself around at high speeds in the mako.
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May 31, 2014 19:22
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Keeshhound posted:I have trouble complaining about the reused parts of ME1 when it also had procedurally generated planets for you to fling yourself around at high speeds in the mako. It also helped that the reused buildings in ME1 often had things and people in them worth seeing. (also if you really wanted to you could handwave it as prefab structures for use in space, but that's just an excuse really)
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May 31, 2014 19:29
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Also Mass Effect came out four years earlier; people are less forgiving of newer releases. I didn't mind the reuse, personally. I got confused in my first Cave Map TM because I thought I was supposed to be able to open the walls and paths that were on the minimap but sealed with doors or stones, when in actuality they were only open on other varieties of the map. I got use to asset reuse in a big way with games like City of Heroes, so it's kind of like water off a duck's back for me. More important is to get to the action or thrust of the mission in a timely manner. DA2, as with Mass Effect 1, got you into some kind of objective pretty quick, while I feel DA:O drags a lot. Here's hoping Inquisition's aspirations of big open exploration doesn't basically turn the whole game into the Deep Roads.
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May 31, 2014 19:35
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Also ME1 was first in the series with ME2 fixing most of those problems. With DA2 it's the opposite.
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May 31, 2014 19:37
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Policenaut posted:My favorite part was the console release where they just forgot to include auto-attack so every fight was essentially a far more tedious, rigid version of Dynasty Warriors. Not to mentionthat consoles also had the second wave of bad guys spawn out of loving nowhere making any sort of positioning meaningless because there are now melee guys right on top of your mages
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May 31, 2014 22:30
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