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Golden Bee posted:1. Not Jonny Cocaine; Joey Crak. Break kayfabe isn't going to stop the win since it's an inherent effect of the heel move, although the +real moves are your best bet for revenge stuff.
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Jan 22, 2017 02:13
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rumble in the bunghole posted:Break kayfabe isn't going to stop the win since it's an inherent effect of the heel move, although the +real moves are your best bet for revenge stuff. https://plus.google.com/107973609226591141233/posts/3AV1oFgHFXX?sfc=false The heel move isn't an automatic win. (Nathan answers a few posts down and he wrote the game.)
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Jan 22, 2017 02:51
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Golden Bee posted:https://plus.google.com/107973609226591141233/posts/3AV1oFgHFXX?sfc=false I don't really know if this applies. He's talking about what to do if the wrestlers just chain swerves, but with the Heel move you're outright declared the winner as a result of using it, and I'd assume the match ends. It's pretty unambiguous, but maybe that assumption's wrong. quote:HEEL: When you do something underhanded to get what you want, spend 2 Momentum and pick 1 of the following: » gain +1 Heat with your opponent » win a match (this overrides Creative’s booking) » leave someone helplessly lying on the floor » get out of a match you’ve been booked in I checked the rules, and according to the quick start you can go against the booking by breaking kayfabe, but I don't think it'd give you the power to reverse the result after it's happened. It's not a move that determines what happens, it's about how the audience and backstage responds to it. Nathan does say that if the move happens at all, it opens up the gates for Creative to do stuff, but there's no built-in response from the move saying whether it works for or against you. Maybe someone who knows more about wrestling than me can talk about similar stuff that's actually happened. Wrestlepig fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 05:25
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I read it as the move overwrites the booking so that the heel wins, not that the match is immediately over. Like, if no one can spend any momentum to change it again go ahead and roll for the finish, but if someone breaks the kayfabe or also uses the heel move then declaring no contest is probably the smartest move.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:32
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Mr. Maltose posted:I read it as the move overwrites the booking so that the heel wins, not that the match is immediately over. Like, if no one can spend any momentum to change it again go ahead and roll for the finish, but if someone breaks the kayfabe or also uses the heel move then declaring no contest is probably the smartest move. Yeah, you should probably play it out that way. The Heel thing isn't necessarily a breach of kayfabe and it'd be really anticlimactic. Still, wouldn't be a Murphy without forced legalistic interpretations of rules outside of how the game actually plays out.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:37
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Doresh posted:Thrash - the only way to win is to be Kenshiro. I made a Thrash character back in the day that did 48d10+864 damage per round. That seemed cheatery to me so I made a character with only core-book abilities that only did 28d6+28d4+546 damage per round. After that I gave up on Thrash.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:26
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I don't know how to convey that the creator of the game, and myself (wrote an expansion pack for it) say that the heel move can be overturned by additional shenanigans, which are likely to upset and confuse the audience. Overriding creative's booking doesn't mean that you went back and win the match, it's that the match now goes to you until further notice.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:06
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Remora posted:I made a Thrash character back in the day that did 48d10+864 damage per round. Sounds like a Super Combo. And I assume the game plays a lot better if you keep that AP stuff under control. The variance is just too crazy. EDIT: Speaking of Supers... Thrash has an somewhat odd implementation of your typical fighting game super move bar in Rage Threshold. It works a bit like in earlier Samurai Shodown games in that getting punched enough makes you really angry and a bit stronger, and you can vent off all that anger with a super move. Rage Threshold is a derived stat and therefore goes up as you improve your stats, though that's okay since Kenshiro doesn't quite need to throw hadokens and can therefore dump one of the 3 stats (Focus). On the other hand, if we don't want to dump Focus, we can instead get the Advantage Calm. Calm is an advantage with levels. The more levels you have in it, the slower your Rage increases. On the plus side, you can do a super whenever you feel like it if you beat a difficulty of 20 with 1d10 + Focus + Calm. Focus and Calm can typically range from 1-10. It is perfectly possible in Thrash to create a character who can spam Supers all the time. Now gaining Rage slower and having a broken combo attack means Kenshiro will rarely gain those nice bonuses that come with being pissed off (namely a bit of extra AP and bonus damage to everything that is not already a Super). But fear not! We can fix that with a Super. See, Rage Burn is - in my humble opinion - the best Super that money can buy. It last four turns and will make your Rage drop to 0 after that. During those turns, you will be faster, more accurate, and your base AP is doubled. Thanks to Calm, we can trigger this baby whenever we feel like it. The only limiting factor is the hefty cost of 10 Chi aka Mana Points we need to spend, but if we throw enough points at is, we can modify this down to 1. What other Supers are there? Well, there's Mega-Attack which represents a simple beefed up version of a regular maneuver. Sadly that option is pretty terrible, as it just adds a hefty Chi cost, reduces Accuracy and costs all of your AP, all for +2d6 damage you could've easily gotten with a combo. Which also has a higher chance of actually connecting. Chi Star is not very good with its huge Chi cost and yet again an AP cost of "everything", but there's some merit in an AOE attack that always hits. Fury Super Attack is one of those KOF supers where you just beat the crap out of the opponent with an automated combo. It consists of a finishing move (which is one of your normal maneuvers) and and a beginning part whose damage depends on how much AP you want this one to last. The beginning part ignores soak, which is nice if you're not already Kenshiro. Power Storm is pretty bad. It forces you to just sit for your Focus stat in turns while an AoE effect keeps expanding, dealing damage similar to just punching dudes. Maybe useful if you're absolutely swarmed by enemies, but they will probably knock you out before your little storm is over. Super Attack Combo is just a beefed up combo with fewer limits (which Kenshiro didn't hit anyways because his punches are so fast). The big new thing is that the opponent can't defend whatsoever if the first hit lands. Maybe not too fantastic if you actually have to worry about your Rage Threshold, but a definite upgrade if you're very Calm. (Depending on how you interpret "Maneuvers that cost more AP than you have carry over to the next turn", you could make a combo with like 100 punches.) tl;dr: Being calm let's you go berserk on command. Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 18:11
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In D&D 5th Edition, this is the rule for fighting with two weapons at the same time:quote:TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING When a Fighter reaches level 5, they gain the Extra Attack feature, which lets them attack twice when they use the Attack action. The first trick is that since the definition of the Attack action doesn't specify handed-ness, then you can attack with a Light weapon in your right hand for the first attack of the Attack action, then attack with a Light weapon in your left hand for the second attack of the Attack action. And then, since Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't specify which attack of the Attack action has to be the "other hand", then you can use either your left or right hand on Two-Weapon Fighting's Bonus Action attack. The next trick is that since Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't specify that all the attacks of the preceding Attack action has to be made with both Light weapons, then you can make one attack with a non-Light weapon, and make the other attack with a Light weapon, and still satisfy the conditions for using Two-Weapon Fighting. So you have a Longsword (non-Light) on your left hand, and a Shortsword (Light) on your right hand, and a Dagger in your inventory. You use the Attack action, and make the first attack with your Longsword. You then drop the Longsword, and draw the Dagger to your left hand. You make the second attack with your Shortsword. You have now met the requirements for Two-Weapon Fighting. You can then use your Bonus Action to attack with your Dagger Since the Shortsword was on the right hand, it's the left hand that has to attack - that's why you have to drop the Longsword and draw a Dagger instead. Also, for maximum damage, you'd use a Longsword and a Shortsword in two hands, with a second Shortsword in your inventory - I just said Dagger to make the different weapons easier to distinguish Alternatively, you could be holding a Shortsword in both hands, attack with your right hand Shortsword, use your Bonus Action to make a Two-Weapon Fighting attack with your left-hand Shortsword, drop both weapons, draw a Greataxe, and use the Extra Attack with the Greataxe. With Dual Wielder feat: quote:You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light. You can squeeze out a little more damage: Longswords in both hands Attack action First attack with the Longsword on the right hand Bonus Action Two-Weapon Fighting Two-Weapon Fighting attack with the Longsword on the left hand Drop both weapons Draw a Greataxe Extra Attack with the Greataxe
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Jan 26, 2017 11:33
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You say 'Murphy', I say 'combo attack'.
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Jan 26, 2017 11:42
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Yeah, that sounds like a pretty standard Light-Light-Heavy combo to me. 
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Jan 26, 2017 14:46
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Yeah, isn't this how you cheese out ripostes in Dark Souls? Light attack with a dagger and then hot switch into greataxe?
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Jan 26, 2017 15:26
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Dropping a shield in 5e takes up an entire action ( ) but does dropping a weapon take an action as well?
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Jan 26, 2017 15:29
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There isn't a specific rule for dropping an item, as far as I can tell. Where does it say that dropping a shield is an Action?quote:You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack. And then the Dual Wielder feat also says: quote:You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
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Jan 26, 2017 15:38
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I'm not at my book but I think it's somewhere in the rules for doffing and donning armor.
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Jan 26, 2017 15:52
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I'm not at my book but I think it's somewhere in the rules for doffing and donning armor. You're right, there it is, but that's such a weirdly tucked-away rule.
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Jan 26, 2017 15:54
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The explanation is that shields are typically strapped to your arm. Which, sure whatever. I just ignore it when possible, like I do for wearing armor while sleeping. Unless it's a very specific kind of survival game where little things matter and the players are in to that, I don't care about bookkeeping and "realism".
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Jan 26, 2017 15:58
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Admiral Joeslop posted:The explanation is that shields are typically strapped to your arm. Which, sure whatever. I just ignore it when possible, like I do for wearing armor while sleeping. Unless it's a very specific kind of survival game where little things matter and the players are in to that, I don't care about bookkeeping and "realism". There are shields you don't strap to your arm, but most of those are huge and intended to be set into the ground instead of used to actively block. Of course, this is 5e, so if you ask me the entire rule system is a Murphy. 
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Jan 26, 2017 17:45
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Realistically, most shields don't strap to your arm. The types that do can generally be counted with one hand.
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Jan 26, 2017 20:08
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Mighty Dicktron posted:Realistically, most shields don't strap to your arm. The types that do can generally be counted with one hand. And when you're using those few, then you can do so even while holding your mace.
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Jan 26, 2017 20:31
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You want to shoot fireballs from your fingertips? Go ahead buddy, not even a skill check. You want to drop your shield? Woah. Woah, buddy. Hold up there just a moment.We need to talk this out and imagine how this should happen realistically.
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Jan 27, 2017 16:59
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ZeroCount posted:You want to shoot fireballs from your fingertips? Go ahead buddy, not even a skill check. I hate this principle that the rules are supposed to "model" of how things work for the "everyman" and then martial types are supposed to stick to that but anyone with "magic" gets to use a completely different, better set of rules instead. I want my fighter to have his own back of the book section that describes how real fighting gets done.
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Jan 27, 2017 17:51
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marshmallow creep posted:I hate this principle that the rules are supposed to "model" of how things work for the "everyman" and then martial types are supposed to stick to that but anyone with "magic" gets to use a completely different, better set of rules instead. I want my fighter to have his own back of the book section that describes how real fighting gets done. Then you want 4e, but they put that section in the front 
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Jan 27, 2017 17:54
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I wish my friends had bothered to give 4e a chance, but they bought into the derisive anti-hype entirely.
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Jan 27, 2017 17:55
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marshmallow creep posted:I wish my friends had bothered to give 4e a chance, but they bought into the derisive anti-hype entirely. I am sorry for your loss. You might be able to get them to try Strike! instead, I've heard it's very similar but since it's not explicitly 4e you should have an easier time selling them on it.
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Jan 27, 2017 17:57
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marshmallow creep posted:I wish my friends had bothered to give 4e a chance, but they bought into the derisive anti-hype entirely. This is why you convince a friend with the promise of Eberron, and use his help to convince another one, again with the promise of actually being able to do cool stuff within the rules, and not being confined to the ~10 (closer to 5 if you don't want to be a burden) classes of 5e.
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Jan 27, 2017 18:04
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Serperoth posted:This is why you convince a friend with the promise of Eberron, and use his help to convince another one, again with the promise of actually being able to do cool stuff within the rules, and not being confined to the ~10 (closer to 5 if you don't want to be a burden) classes of 5e. sadly for a lot of people, casters being demi-gods when compared to the pitiful martial heroes is a feature, not a bug. the argument they use to justify their favorite class being an unstoppable powerhouse is that if everyone can do cool stuff then nobody is actually doing cool stuff.
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Jan 27, 2017 19:21
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Freaking Crumbum posted:sadly for a lot of people, casters being demi-gods when compared to the pitiful martial heroes is a feature, not a bug. the argument they use to justify their favorite class being an unstoppable powerhouse is that if everyone can do cool stuff then nobody is actually doing cool stuff.
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Jan 27, 2017 19:48
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Freaking Crumbum posted:sadly for a lot of people, casters being demi-gods when compared to the pitiful martial heroes is a feature, not a bug. the argument they use to justify their favorite class being an unstoppable powerhouse is that if everyone can do cool stuff then nobody is actually doing cool stuff.
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Jan 27, 2017 19:49
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What's best is when people quote Syndrome from The Incredibles unironically while they're at it. Token Murphy: Working on Rifts Japan, and any time I toy around with an Rifts F&F, there are inevitable murphies, like: Kendo doesn't teach you how to use a sword. At all. Apparently, it teaches palm strikes and leg sweeps and even jump kicks. Strangely, the flavor text does say "Kendo is a martial art developed around the art of swordsmanship.", but the actual rules text seems to just be a cut-and-paste version of a karate-styled martial art.
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Jan 27, 2017 20:41
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marshmallow creep posted:I hate this principle that the rules are supposed to "model" of how things work for the "everyman" and then martial types are supposed to stick to that but anyone with "magic" gets to use a completely different, better set of rules instead. I want my fighter to have his own back of the book section that describes how real fighting gets done. Where's the thing where the game developer determined the difficulty of something like reloading or quick swapping an item by tying a string to something and trying to do it himself?
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Jan 27, 2017 21:29
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Where's the thing where the game developer determined the difficulty of something like reloading or quick swapping an item by tying a string to something and trying to do it himself? Quickdrawing a revolver by playing with a mouse on a cord?
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Jan 27, 2017 21:33
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Where's the thing where the game developer determined the difficulty of something like reloading or quick swapping an item by tying a string to something and trying to do it himself? Wasn't that a Pathfinder or D&D writer arguing about how a flail would work or something?
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Jan 27, 2017 21:34
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Pathfinder guy, yes.
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Jan 27, 2017 21:37
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Serf posted:Wasn't that a Pathfinder or D&D writer arguing about how a flail would work or something? It was Pathfinder and Weapon Cords. 
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Jan 27, 2017 21:38
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Serf posted:Wasn't that a Pathfinder or D&D writer arguing about how a flail would work or something? Fantasy RPG developers should only ever be allowed to have the rules be based on their own capabilities and shortcomings if they can manage to cast at least Magic Missile. "Hi, guys! I tried all weekend to polymorph my pet rat into a bear. Didn't work. Guess we have no choice but to remove spellcasters from the game!" Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 21:47
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Doresh posted:Fantasy RPG developers should only ever be allowed to have the rules be based on their own capabilities and shortcomings if they can manage to cast at least Magic Missile.  like most of the developers trying to use this chain of logic actually qualify for a caster class.
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Jan 27, 2017 21:54
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I hope you like D&D 6 being developed by Brucato.
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Jan 27, 2017 21:59
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rumble in the bunghole posted:I hope you like D&D 6 being developed by Brucato. The only race is hermaphroditic satyr and the only class is sex magician.
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Jan 27, 2017 22:27
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Doresh posted:Fantasy RPG developers should only ever be allowed to have the rules be based on their own capabilities and shortcomings if they can manage to cast at least Magic Missile. You laugh, but the far worse concern is the designer that sincerely believe they can cast magic missile. Down that road lies Wraeththu.
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Jan 27, 2017 22:33
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