|
TheJoker138 posted:Thanos talking to Ronan, and Thanos on a screen talking to Ronan...did I miss two somehow? There are points of him being mentioned, but that's the same with the Emperor. ESB 'could' have also been done without the Emperor, but it would have been worse. poo poo, A New Hope 'could' have been done without Darth Vader. Just replace him with some other Empire villain who dies then bring Vader in in ESB where his main plot as Luke's father comes in (this would also have sucked).
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 19:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:25 |
|
|
morestuff posted:That's one scene vs. four for Thanos. Technically the Emperor doesn't even show up in IV despite still being the true villain, and only in hologram in V. He does nothing but stand or sit in a chair until the very end of VI. So far we've gotten one post-credit Thanos scene in a movie where he was the invisible hand, and one movie where appears in a hologram AND menaces from a chair in the same picture! We're ahead of the game! Seriously I get you want to see Thanos do some poo poo but this is a really dumb comparison.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 19:32
|
|
|
mr. mephistopheles posted:Watching the team interact was far more entertaining than anything they could have done to flesh out Ronan. I'm not sure how one would determine the limit on the potential entertainment to be gained in a counterfactual in which Ronan was more developed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 19:34
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:In Thor it seemed like these "realms" as you call them were nothing but just planets. Are they planets in this same universe? If I had a capable spaceship, could I fly from Earth ("Midgard") all the way to Asgard? What's stopping me from doing so if the answer is no? Because it seemed like the dark elves were able to fly from Svartalfheim (very original name there) to Asgard. Just wanted to point out that Svartalfheim isn't a Marvel made up thing, it's a Norse made up thing, same as Thor, Loki, Asgard, etc. Either way, it's like a cross section with Earth in the centre, the nine realms on one axis and the universe on the other. Fellblade fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Aug 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
BreakAtmo posted:Yes, clearly the best idea would be to just have the Thanos/Infinity Stones stuff come out of of nowhere in Avengers 3, bogging that movie down with all the required exposition at once. Except, not at all. One of the best parts of these Marvel films is the effort the studio has put in to planning out the story arc of the series, beginning plots in prior films before they appear in full in a later instalment. There was nothing whatsoever wrong with having Thanos in this. He didn't slow down the film in the slightest, and him being in it allowed Marvel to build him up before making him the central villain of a later film. Sure, they COULD have made the film without him, but it would not have even remotely improved it. I think establishing the danger of the gems is a great idea for this film. Who can say if the origin is going to be important or not, but it does go hand in hand with this gem. The problem is Thanos wanting the gems as a plot point in a movie not about Thanos. That is something that is going to be reestablished whenever they actually have the Infinity Gauntlet story. And it's not even a hard thing to establish. I just think it might have been better to have Ronan seek out the gem on his own because Thanos doesn't really do much in this story. And it honestly doesn't do much to establish him. Alright, he's the Mad Titan and he's bad, but what is he going to do with them? Has he just started pursing them or has it been for a very long time? Does he have some of the gems already? Thanos does not have a story and we learn very little about him. You either need to go in the other direction and just make Ronan your only villain or you really need to invest more into what Thanos's deal in this film is. TheJoker138 posted:If you're going to introduce the emperor, have him do something more dynamic or interesting than not even appearing in the flesh and having him do nothing but talk. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Aug 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
The infinity gems have been a great plot device, because their importance is established in that an entire gallery of characters spends an entire movie trying to secure just one of them. One of the gems took two movies to get. That still leaves a lot of movies if we are doing one gem/movie. But Thanos may already have several.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:The infinity gems have been a great plot device, because their importance is established in that an entire gallery of characters spends an entire movie trying to secure just one of them. One of the gems took two movies to get. My only concern is that things will start to feel too formulaic and/or too tied in to Avengers 3. Basically the SHIELD subplot of Iron Man 2 writ large. And I'm the one that really enjoyed Iron Man 2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 19:57
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:Or, alternatively, Marvel managed to put out a film with a walking tree and a talking raccoon before one with a female lead character, despite having one of the most bankable female stars playing a recurring character, who has successfully headlined other movies, including a sci-fi action film. Are you serious? The joke was Groot thinking it was was a revelation from Rocket.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
gohmak posted:Are you serious? The joke was Groot thinking it was was a revelation from Rocket. The joke is how wrong you and everyone else that thinks this are. But still, it's kind of refreshing to see this kind of epic mis-understanding outside of TV IV for once.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
Good god, people are dense. The joke is clearly that Groot is shocked at how insensitve Rocket is. He even glares angrily at Rocket the next time they cut back to him. It's not "I didn't know that!" it's "Why are you being so mean, little furry friend?!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
gohmak posted:Are you serious? The joke was Groot thinking it was was a revelation from Rocket. Are you serious?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
I'm not sure who is trolling or being genuine anymore and it's destroying my worldview.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:16
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:I'm not sure how one would determine the limit on the potential entertainment to be gained in a counterfactual in which Ronan was more developed. Yes, technically speaking, more scenes with a fleshed-out Ronan could be infinitely entertaining. Very good. In all likelihood though had they dedicated more time to make Ronan a better villain it would have meant cutting time with the actual team who are the people they movie is trying to sell.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:16
|
|
|
There's no way that's not a troll. Why would Rocket respond to Groot's expression with "Oh I know it's mean!" if Groot's response was that he didn't know Rocket also had a dead wife and kids? Why would anyone interpret it a different way?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
My favorite part of that reading is that it implies at some point Rocket fell in love with someone, got them to fall in love with a mutated/experimented-on raccoon, and then had successful inter-mutated/experimented-on species sex, and had children, that at least lived for awhile to be killed, all in a life that he admits is relatively short-spanned anyways. Or maybe they were step-children. Who knows?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
OldSenileGuy posted:The joke is how wrong you and everyone else that thinks this are. But still, it's kind of refreshing to see this kind of epic mis-understanding outside of TV IV for once. Seriously. What is this, the local? I uh quit. In any case the joke clearly wasn't a misunderstanding on Groot's part. His reaction was Rocket's insensitivity.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:30
|
|
|
He literally says, TO GROOT, "I know it's mean! So what?" I understand missing that line, because laughter, but it happened. Can we drop this now?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:31
|
|
|
I think my favorite part of the movie was how the heroes kept interrupting villain speeches by shooting them (or dancing)
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
babypolis posted:I think my favorite part of the movie was how the heroes kept interrupting villain speeches by shooting them (or dancing) This is a total Joss Whedon thing, and I would not be at all surprised to hear this was part of his influence on the film and/or the script.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:36
|
|
|
Calico Heart posted:Yes, technically speaking, more scenes with a fleshed-out Ronan could be infinitely entertaining. Very good. That part of Marvel's concern is building a popular franchise in no way ameliorates failings of the movie. And, while the movie was certainly fun, it's not like we're talking about Ghostbusters or Jurassic Park where it's reasonable to consider that any change might be to the detriment of the movie. Hell, it wouldn't need to take time away from the team, it would just mean being more specific in the scenes where Ronan already appears. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Aug 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
babypolis posted:I think my favorite part of the movie was how the heroes kept interrupting villain speeches by shooting them (or dancing) I loved this, too. Ronan's big moment of triumph, classic bad guy posturing speech, and Quill's dancing was enough to completely stop him cold. It was such a fun moment. "What... what are you doing?"
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:This film establishes the following things: Infinity Gems are dangerous. The origin of the Infinity Gems. Thanos wants the Infinity Gems. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of the Marvel universe and Thanos knows what he's about and he is obviously going to be the main villain in an upcoming Avengers film. That will give you all the Thanos you're asking and his presence in the films before that establish how important he is. That's great you wanted a film about Thanos and everything right now, but you'll have to wait. I think that's a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, I just heard the best idea ever: Marvel should actually make and sell little animatronic versions of the tiny dancing Groot from the end of the movie. Include all of Awesome Mix #1 and #2 hidden in the pot with speakers somewhere and give it different dances to each song. I would not be able to stop buying them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
Bill Dungsroman posted:Anyone with even a passing knowledge of the Marvel universe and Thanos knows what he's about and he is obviously going to be the main villain in an upcoming Avengers film. That will give you all the Thanos you're asking and his presence in the films before that establish how important he is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
Well that and Thanos has been the man behind the scenes for 2 films now. I mean most people do actually know who he is from the Avengers or at least what he looks like. GotG 2 will be a prequel or a lead in to The Infinity Gauntlet which will be a 2 part Film. Calling it now. I'll  and say that one of the following things will happen, The Guardians of the Galaxy and the Avengers will team up in Marvel The Avengers : Infinity Gauntlet or it will be 2 parts and GotG will be a lead in to the Infinity Gauntlet.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Aug 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
Last page chat, but I think that as far as the MCU goes, the Nine Realms are each entirely separate universes, each of which makes up a Marvel Universe, like Earth-616 and others. So I guess the Nine Realms are each contained within a larger super-universe. Basically, I don't think you can travel from one universe to the other without using a device like the Bifrost or dark matter, or the Infinity Gem shenanigans we saw in Thor 2. Nifelheim may not consist 100% of frost trolls, but the most prominent planet certainly does. Like how Asgard is characterized by the Asgardians and Midgard is thought of as the "human realm" the center of each individual universe is a single planet. So the Asgardians have this grand system in place, but really it's just relegated to the first planet they encountered in each Realm. So they may or may not be the actual center of that Realm, but the Asgardians seem to think so. I like to think that the Asgardian model is limited in scope, and they're not really thinking through the implications of each Realm being a whole universe unto itself. / 
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
Serf posted:Last page chat, but I think that as far as the MCU goes, the Nine Realms are each entirely separate universes, each of which makes up a Marvel Universe, like Earth-616 and others. So I guess the Nine Realms are each contained within a larger super-universe. Basically, I don't think you can travel from one universe to the other without using a device like the Bifrost or dark matter, or the Infinity Gem shenanigans we saw in Thor 2. Some of this may be right, but the Nine Realms are not separate universes in that sense. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is called that for a reason, and is called Earth-199999.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:02
|
|
|
I thought the 9 realms were galaxies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:04
|
|
|
The actor who played Ronan really MADE that final battle scene work. If his looks of disgust and confusion at Quill's dancing weren't sold right, it wouldn't have worked. But he was perfect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:20
|
|
|
I always considered it a mainly mystical thing, like the spirit realm and the afterlife and such. I don't think you can literally just fly to Niflheim even if you had a galaxy-spanning ship. It's one of those comic things, because I don't think they've ever explored the idea of there being more worlds outside of whichever one is associated with its realm. Like if you took a spaceship to Hel could you just leave and fly to nearby planets? If you go by actual norse mythology, it's just endless planes of whichever environment fits the realm, and nothing else. Midgard is the only one that follows any type of real world logic like that. I think I prefer that explanation anyway. I like the idea of abstract realities more than just "here's a bunch of planets somewhere else".
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:24
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:My point is that there is a lot of really cool shorthand that establishes what the Empire is without having to go into too much worldbuilding. They dress like Nazis. They dress in black. They are called the Empire. Their ship is bigger. They killed innocent farmers for no good reason. I disagree with the whole "you've watched Star Wars" more argument. I can articulate what Star Wars is doing because I've seen it a bunch of times, but all this stuff works on the first viewing. That's why I'm throwing these things out as exemplars of storytelling. An eight year old gets just how bad the Empire is based on this stuff even if they're not conscious of this stuff. 1) Ronan and his followers do dress in black. Ronan dresses almost the same as a Sith, and his followers are necro. loving undead. Pretty universal sign of evil. 2) They are not called an empire because they are not. Ronan represents a sect of fanatics. It's not the same as the Empire, and that's OK. It doesn't mean it's necessarily less evil. This is a fanatic so dangerous he'll gently caress with his own people as well as others. Pretty scary. 3) His ship is bigger, too. Remember when a whole army had to band together to blockade it then he loving murdered all of them by breaking through it and incinerating them? Yeah, remember when all those soldiers died and a cities attempt to stop a single ship was wiped away while the city below fled in terror? Probably something their grandkids will talk about for a long time. 4) Innocents? See 3. 5) Wether you can be self aware enough to admit it or not, you have decades of Star Wars backstory and 2+ other movies +EU stuff to kind of flesh out your knowledge. It's impossible to separate. 6) Feel free to ask any 8 year old who has seen the movie. I'm pretty sure they'll be able to tell you who the bad guy is. Ronan does not have the reach that the Empire has. He doesn't have to, he's a different kind of danger and evil. He's not a government/systematic force, he's a chaotic zealot. Thanos doesn't need to be more fleshed out. See the Emperor in A New Hope/OT. He's a loving mean dude who sits in a chair. Seems pretty similar to Thanos, actually.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:24
|
|
|
cams posted:The actor who played Ronan really MADE that final battle scene work. If his looks of disgust and confusion at Quill's dancing weren't sold right, it wouldn't have worked. But he was perfect. Holy poo poo, Ronan the Accuser was the loving Pie Maker from Pushing Daisies? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
A good post
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Tuxedo Jack posted:Holy poo poo, Ronan the Accuser was the loving Pie Maker from Pushing Daisies? Also Thranduil, the Elven King, from The Hobbit movies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
What I think most people complaining about villain development are saying is this: Instead of Ronan being an iconic villain like Vader, he comes of more of a Maul. But if you think Ronan is actually the villain, you're short sighted. The villain in this movie is the gem. That's who really must be stopped. Ronan is just a conduit. It doesn't matter if he was more fleshed out, and, in fact, would have been wasteful, because he was, and always was, going to die at the end of the movie. He's not like Vader, he didn't need to be, that wasn't his role in the movie. Stop trying to force him into it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
Tuxedo Jack posted:Holy poo poo, Ronan the Accuser was the loving Pie Maker from Pushing Daisies?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
rear end Catchcum posted:What I think most people complaining about villain development are saying is this: Instead of Ronan being an iconic villain like Vader, he comes of more of a Maul. But if you think Ronan is actually the villain, you're short sighted. The villain in this movie is the gem. That's who really must be stopped. Ronan is just a conduit. It doesn't matter if he was more fleshed out, and, in fact, would have been wasteful, because he was, and always was, going to die at the end of the movie. He's not like Vader, he didn't need to be, that wasn't his role in the movie. Stop trying to force him into it. That makes sense when you consider that the final battle is actually them overcoming the gem. Tuxedo Jack posted:Holy poo poo, Ronan the Accuser was the loving Pie Maker from Pushing Daisies? I kept wondering who everyone meant when they called him that. gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:37
|
|
|
rear end Catchcum posted:What I think most people complaining about villain development are saying is this: Instead of Ronan being an iconic villain like Vader, he comes of more of a Maul. But if you think Ronan is actually the villain, you're short sighted. The villain in this movie is the gem. That's who really must be stopped. Ronan is just a conduit. It doesn't matter if he was more fleshed out, and, in fact, would have been wasteful, because he was, and always was, going to die at the end of the movie. He's not like Vader, he didn't need to be, that wasn't his role in the movie. Stop trying to force him into it. I feel like Star Wars is such an easy parallel to make that people see it as "the good movie to compare it to!!!" when in fact it is just "A very popular space opera" and is far from doing everything perfect. It's just really iconic now and vaguely similar enough. I mean honestly I actually had way more fun seeing Guardians in a cinema than I've ever had watching any of the Star Wars films. though over-saturation could be a factor there. I mean, see that Cracked article I posted a while back. You get the impression from it the writer has only seen Star Wars and Indianna Jones and those are his only points of reference.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:38
|
|
|
rear end Catchcum posted:The villain in this movie is the gem. The Death Star is not the villain of Star Wars. rear end Catchcum posted:6) Feel free to ask any 8 year old who has seen the movie. I'm pretty sure they'll be able to tell you who the bad guy is. It's weird how this keeps recurring. It implies a lack of understanding of the complaint. No thinks the movie was too vague about who the villain is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:25 |
|
|
OldSenileGuy posted:The joke is how wrong you and everyone else that thinks this are. But still, it's kind of refreshing to see this kind of epic mis-understanding outside of TV IV for once. Nothing goes over your head, your reflexes must be really quick. I missed the Rocket follow up line due to laughter. If he did in fact say that then I will admit I could have misinterpreted. gohmak fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Aug 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2014 21:39
|
|