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How far does that area scale? It sounds like something you'd do for the finale, not right after Act 1.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:55
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Fruits of the sea posted:Grim Dawn is kind of... full. Tons of stuff to do in a playthrough, although some new dungeons for the last act is a good touch. Expanding end game stuff like Shattered realms could be neat, but it will get stale eventually unless they keep remixing it like POE has. Justin_Brett posted:How far does that area scale? It sounds like something you'd do for the finale, not right after Act 1. Yawgmoth fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 19:17
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Yawgmoth posted:I think there's room for one more expansion with GD, something where we tie up all the aetherial bullshit that they've been hinting at with lore notes since act 1. Something where we go to the aetherials' dimension and beat the piss out of The Consensus, maybe with the help of that guy you can save just before Theodin Marcell would be really nice, or really anything that ties the witch gods, Mogdrogen, the chthonians, and the aetherial plot lines together into an actual finale. I know they've said something to the effect of "we don't want there to be a conclusion" but I think that if they're going to be moving onto other games then they really ought to at least finish out the major storyline. I figure that's more what a hypothetical GD2 would do. For one thing, I always found it very noticeable that you never actually go the the capital.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:17
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I liked the expansion’s storyline, just because it turned a totally random townsperson into a badass who was almost more important to the plot than the player. It didn’t make any sense, but it was funny.
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Nov 8, 2019 01:02
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Daila deserves her own game.
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Nov 8, 2019 01:43
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Mordja posted:I figure that's more what a hypothetical GD2 would do. For one thing, I always found it very noticeable that you never actually go the the capital. Mind you, I would absolutely love it if they implemented any sort of "play your old character in the new game" kind of thing into a GD2 just as much as I would love a proper 4th expansion with said capstone event.
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Nov 8, 2019 01:56
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Yawgmoth posted:I feel like there needs to be some kind of capstone event for the MC for there to be a GD2, unless they want to go with some kind of Golden Sun style "use your old character in the new game" thing. Otherwise they have to explain why they need you to be the hero instead of your old character, who has killed at least one god, single-handedly put the cult of ch'thon into disarray, and slaughtered pretty much every high-ranking aetherial s/he's been aimed at.
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Nov 8, 2019 10:34
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Make the GD1 PC the antagonist. That's always fun.
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Nov 8, 2019 17:57
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chaosapiant posted:Make the GD1 PC the antagonist. That's always fun. more or less the diablo 2 maneuver
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Nov 8, 2019 18:11
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Zereth posted:Could just have the GD1 PC be busy somewhere else while the GD2 PC does stuff in new areas I'm lv96 with this poison dervish build, just finished killing the boss on SoT 3. Anything less than a hero vaporizes from my initial SS+RoS, and heroes generally fall apart with one RF or ABB. Bosses die before Ascension wears off.
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Nov 9, 2019 17:56
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Yawgmoth posted:Probably the easiest, but it does require a little actual writing to justify it satisfactorily. I think one of Creed's journal's suggests that the placer character is on the way to becoming an Ascendant, which I think could be a neat way to tie it up. Better than just having them faff off somewhere and never be seen again (hello, Nerevarine!).
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Nov 9, 2019 20:31
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So I've been playing this game for like 600 hours and have a few characters at or near max level. Like every build in this game is SUPER gear dependent isn't it? I'm definitely willing to accept that I just suck, but at the same time I'm a pretty big ARPG junkie and typically know what I'm doing and have a good sense of what will work. Like I have a high 90's character (Nightblade/Warfare) w/ 2 weapons from the same endgame set (deathstalker's I think? some nightblade oriented set with a sword and axe) plus the shoulders. Resists are all above 80, I have very good life steal and attack speed, solid stun/freeze resist, and all my augments and components are as good as I think they can be. Same thing with my Oath/Warfare guy. I have what I think is a crazy good two-hander and tried a eye of reckoning build and it's taking like 5 seconds just to kill normal white mobs on ultimate. I tried to summon that secret boss thing in the desert on the Nightblade one, from that shrine, on normal mode and his health barely moved and he slapped my rear end in a couple hits. Now obviously I could have the rest of the set to help, but it's not like my non-set gear isn't also purple and max level. Am I just at a point where near perfect/perfect gear is necessary? What else am I probably missing? I almost feel like those weird run around and DoT things builds are the only way to go.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:08
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Grimdude posted:Am I just at a point where near perfect/perfect gear is necessary? What else am I probably missing? I almost feel like those weird run around and DoT things builds are the only way to go. Also if you want to have a pile of gear dropped on you, come to the grim goon discord and ask for stuff. We have everything.
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Nov 10, 2019 05:44
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Yawgmoth’s advice is good. Gear is extremely important, but with the right build, you can make do without best in slot gear. Blademaster and EoR warlord are probably both capable of handling ultimate roguelikes or even shattered realm up to 50 or so with average gear. Definitely link us your grim tools. You can upload your character directly to the character builder in grim tools, so it will show exactly what your stats are. One thing you haven’t mentioned is OA/DA. Those are hugely important, especially in the end game. You should try to get at least 2800 of each, preferably 3000. The official forums can tend towards elitism and be pretty frustrating sometimes, but here is a very useful guide on the kind of stats you need for end game: Nery’s guide on recommended stats for end game. Note that a lot of this comes down to feel. As mentioned in the guide, some characters will be fine with 1500 armor and low DA, but others will need 3000 armor and over 3000 DA to feel safe. And there are a lot of complicated mechanics in the game. Physical damage EoR, for example, has to focus on damage much harder than other types because it has a lot of trouble getting through armor. One thing I’ll mention: My understanding of the consensus on the official forums is that shields have gradually changed from almost mandatory in endgame to very situational. You have to really maximize your block recovery stat to make a shield worth it, and often it means giving up so much offense that you still die before other characters because it takes you too long to kill things. Specific builds, like retaliation characters, can be very good with shields, but usually it requires a very specific, gear-dependent setup. I don’t know how much of that is hyperbole, since I haven’t played a shield character myself, and if I do, it will probably be retaliation focused, but it’s worth keeping in mind. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 06:50
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Heithinn Grasida posted:One thing I’ll mention: My understanding of the consensus on the official forums is that shields have gradually changed from almost mandatory in endgame to very situational. You have to really maximize your block recovery stat to make a shield worth it, and often it means giving up so much offense that you still die before other characters because it takes you too long to kill things. Specific builds, like retaliation characters, can be very good with shields, but usually it requires a very specific, gear-dependent setup. I don’t know how much of that is hyperbole, since I haven’t played a shield character myself, and if I do, it will probably be retaliation focused, but it’s worth keeping in mind. As a general rule of thumb, don't take anything the OF people say without equipping a purified salt. They're histrionic as gently caress and have no concept of degrees; everything is either The Best or completely worthless and terrible.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:47
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If they make a GD2 I'd like to see less damage types and more indicaters of what kind of damage killed me.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:23
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The General posted:If they make a GD2 I'd like to see less damage types and more indicaters of what kind of damage killed me. GD's entire stat system needs to be fired into the Sun with Zantai as ballast, so they can start from scratch.
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Nov 11, 2019 14:09
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GD's stat system is funny because it works fine, but it was obviously never the intention for physique to be the main stat for almost every build. Must have been a nightmare for whoever was responsible for balancing the game.
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Nov 11, 2019 14:47
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Clitch posted:GD's entire stat system needs to be fired into the Sun with Zantai as ballast, so they can start from scratch. We crunch the damage types down to Fire, Cold, Acid, Aether (combined with lightning), and Chaos (combined with vitality). Bleed becomes the physical DoT, and we just straight up drop pierce & trauma. All of the CC resists get crunched into one "control resist" stat. Resist Reduction all gets crunched into one additive stat, but everything that provides it is massively reduced. If you stack up super hard you might hit -20%. Enemies no longer get any RR at all ever. Enemies also never get a dispel effect ever. gently caress you Arcane heroes and grava. You can have a -damage debuff or something. NO MORE loving FLOOR DAMAGE. Hero+ mobs have their CC resist dropped substantially, so that it's actually possible to kite anything ever without resorting to getting them stuck on a room's geometry.
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Nov 11, 2019 17:42
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Yawgmoth posted:God yes. If I were handed the reins to alter GD however I wanted, here's what I'd do. Feel free to make fun of my lovely game design abilities, or say "well it's at least better than Zantai I guess". I can agree with this but keeping Lightning damage too, as long as Elemental Resistance exists as a stat still
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Nov 11, 2019 21:50
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Aether and Chaos damage always feel like something you have to plan around building a character for way more than others, since obviously a lot of the enemies you fight throughout the game will laugh off one of them ordinarily.
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Nov 11, 2019 22:02
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Do the Skeleton / Blight monster pets from the Necromancer skill line ever fall off a cliff in this game? After a few lacklustre starts as other archetypes, I went in with a "pet" class and I feel so powerful relative to my other guys that I am wary I have fallen into a trap. I am level 36, just obliterated everything in my path with 8 bony-boys and one zombie-beast. Everything just melts, but will this carry me through to the end?
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Nov 11, 2019 22:24
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mitochondritom posted:Do the Skeleton / Blight monster pets from the Necromancer skill line ever fall off a cliff in this game? After a few lacklustre starts as other archetypes, I went in with a "pet" class and I feel so powerful relative to my other guys that I am wary I have fallen into a trap. I am level 36, just obliterated everything in my path with 8 bony-boys and one zombie-beast. Everything just melts, but will this carry me through to the end? The Mash posted:I can agree with this but keeping Lightning damage too, as long as Elemental Resistance exists as a stat still
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Nov 11, 2019 23:34
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I'd also appreciate if the damage output calculations were simpler. Not everything has to be D3, but figuring out GD builds is overwhelming to me.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:42
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Yawgmoth posted:God yes. If I were handed the reins to alter GD however I wanted, here's what I'd do. Feel free to make fun of my lovely game design abilities, or say "well it's at least better than Zantai I guess". In this post I get to be lead designer on GD2 Phys, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Poison, Aether, and some kind of Blood/Vitality magic will be the damage types. Aether and Arcane are the same poo poo. Deal with it. Chaos is dumb and shits up every Mastery it touches. gently caress Chaos. Direct vs. DoT vs. Retaliation will be determined by abilities, mutators, and weapon modifiers. No more comparing Fire and Burn damage on the same piece of gear, while you break out Excel and figure out which is your highest source of damage. All fire burns for gently caress's sake! Physical resistance fucks off because we already have an armor count. Pierce is replaced with Armor Mastery/Magic Shield and Armor Penetration/Spell Accuracy. Armor Mastery/Magic Shield are two different Armor count coefficients. Magic Shield has a higher coefficient, but Armor Mastery includes a flat defense bonus. Want to be a tank or less of a pincushion at range? Stack it. Armor Penetration/Spell Accuracy are a passive buff to crit chance/hit chance/crit multiplier/DoT multiplier. Mastery passives and deep stars can tweak these stat bonuses on a Zero-Sum basis to suit different playstyles.  NON-ArPen/SpAc BONUSES TO THESE STATS WILL BE ADDITIVE TO BASE STATS! ArPen/SpAc WILL BE MULTIPLICATIVE AFTER ALL OTHER BONUSES ARE APPLIED! THESE ARE YOUR ADDITIVE VS. MULTIPLICATIVE RULES! THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS! Resist Reduction is applied by appropriate AoE and Aura debuffs. Mutators on these abilities will convert Resist Reduction 1:1 with Damage Type. All RR will stack additively unless two players cast the same RR ability in Multiplayer. No RR on Devotions. Devotions should come down to playstyle and flavor, not must-have bullshit. Damage type conversion will be Mutators/Exclusives/MH or 2H Weapons only(Any conversion on offhand weapons will be ignored), Weapons and max level Exclusives will give 100% conversion. Ult Levels will give bonus damage. Weapons may also have cheeky ability modifiers for giggles. All other means of damage type conversion will join Zantai on the Sun. CC RESISTS! ONE loving STAT! PET RESISTS! ONE loving STAT! PETS WILL HAVE EASY ACCESS TO A GOOD FLAT AoE RESISTANCE VIA MASTERY SKILL! CAST AND ATTACK SPEED ARE THE SAME THING! OF COURSE, YOU WILL ENCHANT YOUR BOOTS WITH MOVEMENT SPEED! UGDENBOG LEATHER ON BOOTS WILL JOIN ZANTAI ON THE SUN! All movement runes of all types will remove CC. Why was it ever not this? I'm sure I can think of more later.
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Nov 12, 2019 11:44
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My GD2 design document: Me smash monster. Sometimes lights sometimes no. Monster explode into money. Again.
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Nov 12, 2019 13:09
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docbeard posted:My GD2 design document: I like this one. I can understand it.
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Nov 12, 2019 14:23
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docbeard posted:My GD2 design document: But you already have Diablo 3 
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Nov 12, 2019 23:45
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How is Grim Dawn’s endgame compared to Diablo 2? My son are running through a modded install of Diablo 2 together and it’s as much fun as I remember and I’m curious if the two sort of “match up” in the end game?
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Nov 12, 2019 23:52
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chaosapiant posted:How is Grim Dawn’s endgame compared to Diablo 2? My son are running through a modded install of Diablo 2 together and it’s as much fun as I remember and I’m curious if the two sort of “match up” in the end game? Shattered Realms comes with Forgotten Gods, and is an infinite dungeon basically. You kill random mobs in a randomly made level until the bar fills up; when it's full, everything left dies and a portal spawns somewhere. You have shards, which are made up of 4 chunks. Chunks are the individual levels, and every 4th chunk is a boss fight with progressively more & harder bosses to fight. You can get BPs for waystones, which act kind of like save points. You craft them at a blacksmith and give them to the guy outside the gate. There's also mutators here too, and you can get hosed over as above because putting a simple "if X then reroll Y" on mutators would be work. For the base game/AoM, you're kinda stuck with crafting skeleton keys to kill the "roguelike" dungeon bosses repeatedly, or hunting down nemesis spawns. You can also piss off Mogdrogen and fight him, and you get an achievement for murdering a god if you do. His hat is lackluster.
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Nov 13, 2019 00:16
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Are the shattered realms actual randomized maps? I didn’t realize the game could do that.
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Nov 13, 2019 01:10
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Unless something changed recently, no, the levels aren't randomly made. The layout is static, chosen randomly from some fairly large set. Most are portions of existing maps, too.
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Nov 13, 2019 01:33
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I’m amused by all the Zantai hate. He’s a huge stubborn prick with some weird ideas, but Grim Dawn is really cool and he put a lot of work into making it. Maybe I have a soft spot for rear end in a top hat ARPG devs. I used to be a big fan of Median XL (D2 mod) and Brother Laz, the developer of the mod, was a gigantic prick. He had the important redeeming quality of being really funny, though. I like movement runes removing CC. That sounds like something from ToME. I’m sure I’ve never played a game with that mechanic, but it seems very familiar and is a good idea. Obviously damage types, CC resistances and resist types need to be simplified. Personally, I would keep aether and chaos separate. Merging them would be too weird for the story and chaos sucking is purely accidental; being named “chaos” doesn’t make it suck and it’s very possible it will someday be better (all enemies are apparently getting -8% chaos resistance in the next patch, among other buffs to chaos builds). I think it would be possible to just have “elemental” resistance as the only type that occurs on gear and yet keep the three elemental damage types separate. Vitality and pierce and internal trauma should all be removed, with bleed taking the place of the physical DoT. That would still leave leave 7 damage types, but only 5 resistance types (remove physical resistance, too), which is a very manageable number. I like DoT and “regular” damage being separate. The game has really staggering diversity in the number of ways you can build around certain skills. I don’t think simplicity is necessarily better here. But I don’t think they need separate % damage bonuses. +% fire damage should also increase burn damage. There are enough other factors that distinguish how you put together a DoT build, a flat damage build or a hybrid that the damage bonuses aren’t very significant. I like conversion in a lot of cases. I think it really adds a lot to build diversity. But I do think that sources of conversion should be simpler and more unified and should typically always be either 50 or 100%. I’ve really come around on resist reduction, actually. I hated it for a long time and I still think it’s too important, but it does have a really unique purpose. Resist Reduction on classes is actually interesting because it’s mandatory, and shapes how the classes play. Shamans, oath keepers and demolitionists will always want to fight in the area affected by their debuffs. Inquisitors (using pierce, aether or chaos damage) and occultists need to use their abilities to apply it, and those abilities can have other, interesting effects. I think Grim Dawn 2 should lean harder into that. RR should stay, but it should only be available from class skills, never from gear or devotions, and it should either always stack or never stack (depending on how you want to balance the masteries). The situational nature of it should be stressed harder so it has a more transformative effect on play, and passive aura type RR should be limited or overall weaker than other sources. I strongly agree that enemies should very rarely or never have resist reduction. Actually, what I’d like, which might seem heretical to ARPG design, would be for the game to not be balanced around resistances always being capped and eventually over-capped. Resistances should be something you need to balance with offensive stats, and trying to cap all resistances would mean going for super defensive devotions and gear that would cut heavily into offense. You should be able to survive endgame content with, say 0% lightning resistance, but at the same time, lightning damage should be clearly telegraphed and it should be very obvious you’re taking lightning damage. So, if your character has a major defensive hole like 0% lightning resistance, you can immediately recognize lightning using enemies and use your CC, active defenses or nukes to survive. Yawgmoth posted:I'll admit that I don't do nearly as much theorycrafting and hard digging into the exact numbers as some people on the OF, but in my experience with every character I have with a shield and without, this just isn't true. If your build is playable and your gear is good, a shield is a legit item to have but absolutely does not need the same level of specialization as pets to be viable. For example, my blademaster only has ~50% block chance and block recovery and the only time he dies is when the game decides I was actually hit by 12 mobs in the same frame. My PRM spellbinder only has 35% block chance and zero recovery, but she doesn't really need it because the shield is a stat stick that soaks a hit every now and then. It's more of a choice of "does the shield give me more stats than DW or a 2H would?" than "am I going to specifically build for a shield really hard?" because while you can do the latter, there's really only a few of options for it and a lot of them are really boring to play. That’s a very fair characterization of the official forums. There’s a lot of good information there that you probably won’t get anywhere else, but you need to read critically. My limited experience with shields is regretting trying to use them any time I’ve tried. I’ve never min-maxed for one, though. Apparently one big problem with shields is they really block almost everything. Including DoT ticks. Which set your block on recovery. So if you have a shield without 100% block recovery reduction, as soon as you get hit by a DoT, your shield isn’t going to block anything important. Even aside from that, a lot of the stuff that kills you in GD comes from multiple small hits. It could be stacked damage pools, fissure type effects, shotgun effects or just a gajillion enemies all hitting you at once, but multiple simultaneous small hits adding up to a ton of damage is very common. The seemingly outsized effectiveness of flat damage reduction from powers like ascension or inquisitor seal are a clear demonstration of this. They only block a small amount of damage on paper, but in practice they are a huge boost to your durability. Unless you’re a soldier with shield maiden and over-capped overguard and shield training, there are a lot of situations in which shield block won’t help you. Of course, shields have more than just block. They often come with a lot of resistances, including large values of physical resistance, so it’s really possible a shield could make you tough even when block isn’t helping you.
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Nov 13, 2019 06:11
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Eye of Reckoning quickly overshadowed Aegis, but I really love playing with it. It and Vire's Might can make OK a surprisingly frenetic mastery.
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Nov 14, 2019 20:44
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I gave up on PoE a while back but figured I'd give this a go. Is there a goon guild?
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Nov 19, 2019 00:38
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Lungboy posted:I gave up on PoE a while back but figured I'd give this a go. Is there a goon guild?
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Nov 19, 2019 00:43
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Yawgmoth posted:I'll admit that I don't do nearly as much theorycrafting and hard digging into the exact numbers as some people on the OF, but in my experience with every character I have with a shield and without, this just isn't true. If your build is playable and your gear is good, a shield is a legit item to have but absolutely does not need the same level of specialization as pets to be viable. For example, my blademaster only has ~50% block chance and block recovery and the only time he dies is when the game decides I was actually hit by 12 mobs in the same frame. My PRM spellbinder only has 35% block chance and zero recovery, but she doesn't really need it because the shield is a stat stick that soaks a hit every now and then. It's more of a choice of "does the shield give me more stats than DW or a 2H would?" than "am I going to specifically build for a shield really hard?" because while you can do the latter, there's really only a few of options for it and a lot of them are really boring to play. I've been a champion of this for years now. People have always said that you need to go hard into shields but I've found them to be solid on any class that can fit them in as long as you don't rely on it as your only defense (relying solely on ANYTHING for defense doesn't work so well). As long as we're doing design ideas, I'd love to see something like this: Physical, Elemental, and Poison damage types can stay. Drop pierce as a separate damage type, just make it an equipment modifier that bypasses armor. Make bleeding the Physical DoT and drop trauma entirely. Replace Aether with tri-elemental damage for that "raw arcane energy" theme. Maaaaybe keep one of Chaos or Vitality; we don't need both, and Vitality has a lot of overlap with Bleed, but I think "shadow/death magic" is a valid concept, especially in a setting like this. Drop resist reduction. In all its forms, for both player and NPC's. It's a bad mechanic that ruins build diversity and will never be balanced. Drop armor absorption. It's pointless and obtuse. Give 2H a niche that isnt "dual wielding except slower and less versatile". I admit I don't have a perfect answer for this one, though.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:46
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I'd love to give this game a whirl, but I keep putting it off because they still charge a lot for the expansions even on a steam sale.
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Nov 20, 2019 01:01
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Jabarto posted:Give 2H a niche that isnt "dual wielding except slower and less versatile". I admit I don't have a perfect answer for this one, though. Freakazoid_ posted:I'd love to give this game a whirl, but I keep putting it off because they still charge a lot for the expansions even on a steam sale.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:13
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Freakazoid_ posted:I'd love to give this game a whirl, but I keep putting it off because they still charge a lot for the expansions even on a steam sale. You get a lot of game for the $$
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Nov 20, 2019 05:26
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