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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:The fact they dont do good shield damage is the reason mass nova cannon is a problem in the first place, because it becomes necessary for the ships to be effective. Yeah I said that and realized after that it doesn't scale worth a drat, and actually is the inverse of a good idea.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:17
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Von Humboldt posted:REPORT FROM THE GOTHIC SECTOR - Wait hold on, I haven't been following this adequately. Do you have persistent fleets in the multiplayer PvP stuff?
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Mar 17, 2016 01:18
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He told me to get cancer and die.
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I think its a difference in design preference? I would prefer that the nova cannon remain a strong Imperium strategy that sets them apart in some way, rather than strictly balanced against other damage sources, and have other factions have their own strong, defining gimmicks. Psycho Landlord posted:The idea of it being near impossible to miss is kinda the point. Landing a direct hit (which can near one shot a light cruiser) is the hard part. Affecting a target is not. Yeah, the Mars is basically a shittier chaos Battlecruiser with a nova cannon stapled on and the Dominantor hits like a wet noodle outside of 3k. And basically every Chaos ship outpaces it so it can be difficult to actually bring a chaos ship to broadside. I've seen a lot of chaos players be afraid to get in and trade hits with Dominators but they only really hurt when they can reliably hit with armor piercing shots and that's at 3k range. If you're at 6-9, you're too close to nova and too far to broadside (effectively). 2 SPOOKY fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 01:20
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Orv posted:Wait hold on, I haven't been following this adequately. Do you have persistent fleets in the multiplayer PvP stuff? Yes you do except destroyed ships take a time out for repairs instead of being gone for good. This is why there is real incentive to think about warping ships out instead of letting fight to death (and also to not let enemies warp out so you can get extra renown.)
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Mar 17, 2016 01:26
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Ciaphas posted:Any good BFG books? (good for WH40K of course, I know what I'm getting into) (The Calpurnia books really capture the ways that people in the Imperium really aren't like you or I, the whole culture is different)
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Mar 17, 2016 01:27
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Psycho Landlord posted:I don't know of any books that focused on BFG, but those purple prose-y Ultramarines books that Graham McNeil wrote had some decent space fights in them. Just for gods sake don't read Battle for the Abyss. It might be 70% about space battles, but it's awfully written. If you're looking for space battles in 40k fiction, there's some good stuff in: Deliverance Lost (ironically, one of the pivotal scenes is about Nova Cannon spam iirc), Know No Fear (less even battles and more epic orbital scale destruction and spaceship boarding actions), Fear to Tread (daemon-ships vs imperium so awesome it makes you wish for a Daemon-fleet DLC), Shadows of Treachery (a classic Imperium vs Imperium battle tale), Scars (ultra-pragmatists vs imperium). Some of the Ciaphas Cain books have some space battle scenes too, though they're more broad strokes and smaller escort and Q-ship heavy fights.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:30
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EDIT: ^^^^ A friend of mine read Fear to Tread and said it was one of the coolest dumb things ever put to paper, so I'll throw out my recommendation for that too.2 SPOOKY posted:I think its a difference in design preference? I would prefer that the nova cannon remain a strong Imperium strategy that sets them apart in some way, rather than strictly balanced against other damage sources, and have other factions have their own strong, defining gimmicks. A lot of Chaos players I've run into seem to have difficulty discerning when it's a good time to rush in and start trading broadsides with opponents. Yes, Chaos ships have better range and lances, but that doesn't mean stay at extreme range at all times - skirmish until you have a weak target presents itself, use your superior speed to dive into a quick 6k broadside, assault the living poo poo out of the target once it's shields drop, burn out and resume skirmishing. Unless your luck on troop rolls is absolutely horrendous, you're leaving behind a crippled ship that won't be able to fix those systems you just wrecked. You can take Khornate ships for a reason. Yes, Chaos ships have greater range than their imperial counterparts, but they are just capable of knife-fighting and ridiculous space cavalry charges and should do so when they opportunity presents itself.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:30
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Chomp8645 posted:Yes you do except destroyed ships take a time out for repairs instead of being gone for good. This is why there is real incentive to think about warping ships out instead of letting fight to death (and also to not let enemies warp out so you can get extra renown.)  That's still enough to make it worth getting in on the launch player base rush.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:31
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Cool down and reveal is a good nova fix. I'll also say they should increase the Minimum. It's very easy after the fight gets close to pull out, high energy turn, and slam one right into someone at close range and it's defiantly part of my general strategy at least against traitor imperials and any chaos dumb enough to knife fight. Nova while closing. Brawl for a bit, when nova comes back online break the nova ship from the pack and annihilate whoever has no shield. Come back in. It's too versatile.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:31
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I liked the Big Red Button noise so much I decided to make a ringtone out of it. Hans Zimmer looks on proudly.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:34
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Psycho Landlord posted:EDIT: ^^^^ A friend of mine read Fear to Tread and said it was one of the coolest dumb things ever put to paper, so I'll throw out my recommendation for that too. Oh yeah I'm experimenting with Nurgle Carrier Hellbringers. Share Void Shields, Higher Speed, no-reveal on maneuvers (still experimenting with 3rd upgrades - currently trying 100 extra shields) and only bring them for low-point fights. They are incredibly lethal - you can skirmish the hell out of the early part of the fight, use bombers to destroy isolated escorts and assault pods to soften up line ships. Then you close in to plague cloud range and just pound the hell out of the enemy. Nurgle-Clouds are really good. The extra troop strength helps keep your shield subsystem up to make the shared shields viable longer. What I'm having problems with is finding a viable way to play Chaos with bigger ship and in fights with more points. Double Carnage (the pure macro battery Cruiser) and the Battlecruiser with the heavy forward lance loadout is my current try, but I'd love to hear what the threads plan is for bigger Chaos parties. vvv Oh yeah, that reminds me: Battle for the Fang has some decent spaceship fighting. Good planetary assault action. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 01:41
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Ciaphas posted:
Theres one WH40K book that takes place entirely on a ship. Its like that one book about the Bounty but in space and grimdark. There's at least one space battle in the Space Wolves Omnibus
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Mar 17, 2016 01:42
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ShineDog posted:It's too versatile. Yeah it's definitely an imperial 'we're ready to take all comers' weapon. The eldar video posted earlier said they were glass cannons. That's not quuuuuite true if they're going by TT. They use real good camouflage systems that conceal their actual position so lance weapons almost never hit them and macro cannons miss more than usual (but will hit from time to time), and those systems give them a degree of resiliency. Tyranids are usually able to field more ships than others, especially wee swarms of escort-sized bugs that give them a robust presence. nova cannon don't care tho, nova cannon don't care about anything
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Mar 17, 2016 02:36
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Literally how is an imperial player to stand a chance against a chaos player without nova cannons? I'm talking cruiser+ level where every ship is faster and carries longer ranged weapons. Nova cannons are strong yes but in that same vein every chaos ship is to goddamn fast. I'd rather a balance like that then everyone being the same cookie cutter poo poo. Know the enemies fleet strengths and weakness then try to work around it rather then dumb everything down.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:37
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Arghy posted:Literally how is an imperial player to stand a chance against a chaos player without nova cannons? I'm talking cruiser+ level where every ship is faster and carries longer ranged weapons. Nova cannons are strong yes but in that same vein every chaos ship is to goddamn fast. I'd rather a balance like that then everyone being the same cookie cutter poo poo. Faith in the Emperor
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Mar 17, 2016 02:43
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I rerolled my account because i discovered the joy of imperial broadsides and every battle seems to be guys doing 1 cruiser 1 LC. I think i got a guy to ragequit to because i was about to destroy his cruiser and the game just went to the start up screen. Whoever thought of doing that pure stealth LC for the data/assasin missions is a genius, my 3rd cruiser is now becoming a stealth cruiser so i can farm renown with 1 LC+4 cobras to run the gauntlet. I'm beginning to rethink the power of cobras, sure their pretty terrible as escorts but auto fire torpedoes from 6k with reload toggled and they'll be dropping torps all over while your larger ships distract the enemy.
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Mar 17, 2016 03:31
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For Chaos I think I am going to see what happens when you take a Carnage, put him on Team Nurgle, and use the ignore armor upgrade on macrocannons.Arghy posted:I'm beginning to rethink the power of cobras, sure their pretty terrible as escorts but auto fire torpedoes from 6k with reload toggled and they'll be dropping torps all over while your larger ships distract the enemy. Plus with the Navy favor you can spawn them for free. Does the skill cool down crew bonus work on abilities like that?
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Mar 17, 2016 04:13
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Meh the navy upgrade seems so lackluster to me, a free cobra and no running? literally every other favor seems better. Does the extra teleporter stack with the SM favor?
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Mar 17, 2016 04:26
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:For Chaos I think I am going to see what happens when you take a Carnage, put him on Team Nurgle, and use the ignore armor upgrade on macrocannons. I did that for my chaos fleet. it works until you get into the 2+ battlecruiser per fight battles, cause nova cannons
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Mar 17, 2016 04:31
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I dunno, I feel like it could add up if you put it on several ships and get a few of them off. You also get to plonk it down near your ship so you can drop it in an optimal position, fire torpedoes, then set torps to auto fire and reload .
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Mar 17, 2016 04:32
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For some reason I always pictured the Nova Cannon as a weapon that operated like the siege cannon from Homeworld: Cataclysm. A slow rolling ball of explosive death that goes off rather than an instant explosion gun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6kAXhY-9kQ&t=336s Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 04:35
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Arghy posted:Meh the navy upgrade seems so lackluster to me, a free cobra and no running? literally every other favor seems better. Does the extra teleporter stack with the SM favor? It most certainly does. Made my Gothic a stop-gap Strike Cruiser. Close in, shred with upgraded 50% shield dmg and 300% crit Lock On! bonus Lances. Send the termies in to mop up.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:03
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Is spamming escorts ever worth it? I upgraded my swords to have armor pen and 50 more HP to make them more fighty. Their expendability is appealing. I was thinking there may be situations where three swords might be more useful than a single dauntless.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:12
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Panfilo posted:Is spamming escorts ever worth it? I upgraded my swords to have armor pen and 50 more HP to make them more fighty. Their expendability is appealing. I was thinking there may be situations where three swords might be more useful than a single dauntless. I've considered spamming escorts, but the chaos ones just seem kinda...bad. Never really had much of a problem with escorts on either faction.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:13
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Panfilo posted:Is spamming escorts ever worth it? I upgraded my swords to have armor pen and 50 more HP to make them more fighty. Their expendability is appealing. I was thinking there may be situations where three swords might be more useful than a single dauntless. If you're imperial, yeah. Firestorms and Swords are both excellent ways to pin something down. They're also the only reliable way to counter Chaos assault waves. Three of them are more than worth another Dauntless and not taking a few starting out is one of the primary newbie traps of this game and the source of a lot of crying earlier in the thread. Chaos escorts kinda blow though, so in that case you probably actually are better off with a second Hellbringer. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 05:19
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Chaos escorts are also hampered by the great old Nova Cannon spam imperials favor
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Mar 17, 2016 05:22
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Loving how many battles i've won just because of ramming. Won 2 games in a row where i played like poo poo and made all the mistakes but he underestimated my dauntless rams and now hes dead! I'm thinking of putting SM favors on all my dauntless since their main power is closing to 3k and doing broadsides so i could get the upgraded lightening strike and just board all day. I tried the gothic and i really don't like it, torpedoes do not go well with lances but that cheap price i'm going to make it into a support cruiser that can jump in and unleash a torpedo strike.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:31
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Too bad the Empire can't take Power Rams as an upgrade. Or can they and I haven't seen that option yet? The Imperium is all "why yes, let's just scale power sword/fist technology up to warship prow size." 
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Mar 17, 2016 05:40
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They should buff torpedoes. On the table top they were really threatening and I'm honestly not that scared of them in this game and I'm not feeling the desire to really fill up on torps. Nova cannon also kind of sucks when I only have 1. In the table top each ship has a 'Shields' value, and each 'hit' they take puts a blast marker touching their base and reduces their shields by 1. Most large ships had 2 shields. So you get hit twice, or move through 2 explosions worth of blast markers, you have no shields and now take hull damage. A nova cannon direct hit did D6 hits. So if you roll good you're pretty much guaranteed to do some hull damage. In this game a direct hit is a glorified pulse bomb or whatever takes shields off on big cruisers. Maybe I'm missing something but I'd take some nerfs to reduce 'mass nova cannon spam' if the power of each individual nova cannon shot was increased. I guess this is just a problem with taking something that was abstracted for turn based table top rules and moving it to a non-turn based game where shields are no longer individual things but now an extra recharging health bar. Does anyone know if this game uses different armor values for the various faces? Imperial ships would only be hit by macro cannon batteries to their prow on a 6+ because of the heavy armor. Chaos ships got no such protection.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:43
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Yeah, but in tabletop escorts all had 1 hitpoint, I kinda like them being slightly tougher in Armada. As far as armor values go, I believe that, yes, there is front/side/rear armor values. You can see them in the bottom left-ish of this screenshot: 
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 05:48
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I saw a funny strategy a chaos player did on breakthrough. He lined up 3 of his cruisers with the defense platforms and rammed them. Combined with damage he managed to destroy three almost simultaneously and finished off the fourth with conventional fire. Now I know what I'm doing if I'm the attacker in breakthrough ! 
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Mar 17, 2016 05:49
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Yeah from the description it sounds like they have a 4 direction system for the armor and i definitely noticed ships taking a ton more damage when their rear facing. Until they add an option for cobras to constantly be moving they'll never be a good choice, they stand still at 6k and just get reamed by chaos weapons. I tried firestorms at 9k and while they were good it didn't help in the late game stages when i needed them to fill out my fleet list. Going to go for 50 speed/AP cannons on swords and just spam those all day. Torpedoes need a massive buff to their crit chance, if they hit you should loving feel it.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:52
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Jerkface posted:Does anyone know if this game uses different armor values for the various faces? Imperial ships would only be hit by macro cannon batteries to their prow on a 6+ because of the heavy armor. Chaos ships got no such protection. It does, yes. Anything smaller than a Chaos battlecruiser isn't going to register damage on an Imp prow unless it crits.
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Mar 17, 2016 05:52
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Galaga Galaxian posted:For some reason I always pictured the Nova Cannon as a weapon that operated like the siege cannon from Homeworld: Cataclysm. A slow rolling ball of explosive death that goes off rather than an instant explosion gun. iirc it's a big gun that fires a big thing at such high speeds special relativity says nope and it distorts space time in a huge area or some other bad but  sci-fi chatterJerkface posted:In the table top each ship has a 'Shields' value, and each 'hit' they take puts a blast marker touching their base and reduces their shields by 1. Most large ships had 2 shields. So you get hit twice, or move through 2 explosions worth of blast markers, you have no shields and now take hull damage. A nova cannon direct hit did D6 hits. So if you roll good you're pretty much guaranteed to do some hull damage. I'm guessing they toned down the cannon a smidgen so it would be more active in battle and require more player involvement. On the TT it takes a long time to reload compared to other weapons and it does scatter somewhat for a shred of balance even though it's one of the imperium's selling points. Abstracting it perfectly would probably make it not fun to use or play against in real time.
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Mar 17, 2016 06:21
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Is there any negatives to firing on a unidentified blip? Ie if a chaos fleet is outranging me will popping Silent Running do any good? Micro warp and AP cannons make the Dominator worth its name. Jumped next to a chaos battlecruiser, rammed him and obliterated his weaponry with a point blank salvo. I would seriously prefer if these things came with torpedoes. Lunars also need to have the prow ram functional. Nova cannons do not satisfy the need for space penis enough I really want to try Gothics with all the crazy lance upgrades too George Rouncewell fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 08:37
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Stevefin posted:I did that for my chaos fleet. it works until you get into the 2+ battlecruiser per fight battles, cause nova cannons It's funny how the balance changes wildly in the different admiral level brackets. Low level stuff is bad for Imperium, mid level stuff is bad for Chaos, and no one is really talking about Battleship stuff because not many people have gotten there yet? Seems that way at least. Itll be interesting to see how people see the balance with battleships in the mix.
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Mar 17, 2016 09:25
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It will be interesting once Orks and Eldar make it in as they have very different ship styles to what we have seen so far. I won't be suprised to see some cheesy niche fleets smashed apart by a headlong Orky charge or Eldar bullshittery.
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Mar 17, 2016 09:39
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I am really looking forward to Orks myself. all my ships will be over sized impact boarding pods 
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Mar 17, 2016 10:07
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Goddamn koreans are some salty bitches--had 2 fuckers ragequit when i owned them hard. Watch out for turret23 he thought he was smart and brought 1 dauntless and 4 escorts to an assassination mission then rage quit when i destroyed 2 escorts out right by ramming while my swords brought his admiral to his knees. Had another guy who brought 1 BC and 2 LC's against my loving cruiser+LC with 4 swords yet i somehow still won but before i could finish his BC he rage quits. Seriously its just loving beta who cares if you get owned? People seem to have no concept of ramming at all, almost every battle i just catch someone with their pants down. Oh you got a nice carnage there, here let me ram 2 swords into it pushing it into the transport you were trying to protect. I think i'm going to be an excellent ork player.
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Mar 17, 2016 10:16
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If by ragequit you mean they warp out early, you need to remember that when a ship is destroyed its out for a super long time/costs shitload of renown to repair, I often just warp out every ship in my fleet when I find myself completely losing because gently caress using 10 escorts against nova cannon spam at lvl 7 which will destroy them immediatelly.
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Mar 17, 2016 10:30
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