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loquacius posted:
I get it, OneNote does a bunch of stuff. But you're confusing flexibility for ease of use. Comparatively, converting a notebook into a list by manually adding checkboxes is not "Mindlessly easy".
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Oct 19, 2012 22:05
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Wiseblood posted:They mean Pro can accept RDP connections. All versions can run the client. I see. I'm sure there will be a ton of teamview apps for RT that will provide the same thing.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:08
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oval office AND PASTE posted:I get it, OneNote does a bunch of stuff. But you're confusing flexibility for ease of use. That's actually the harder way to do it. In OneNote on WP7, desktop, and metro: click the Todo icon, type your first item, hit enter, a new checkbox appears on the next line, type your second item, hit enter, etc.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:10
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Vagrancy posted:To be fair he probably meant OneNote MX. I can't vouch for/against it's effectiveness at to-do lists since I only used it for about 2 minutes when I was running the Win8 RP since the radial menu was really awkward to use with a mouse/keyboard. Side note (hurr) - what's the entry address to the store from a browser? From the link above, there's no navigation.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:12
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Eggnogium posted:That's actually the harder way to do it. In OneNote on WP7, desktop, and metro: click the Todo icon, type your first item, hit enter, a new checkbox appears on the next line, type your second item, hit enter, etc. That's neat. It also has nothing to do with Windows 8 or Windows RT.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:12
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oval office AND PASTE posted:That's neat. It also has nothing to do with Windows 8 or Windows RT. One Note MX works the same way.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:13
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Wiseblood posted:One Note MX works the same way. And it doesn't ship with Windows 8 or Windows RT, and most people won't ever find it. We are we still going in circles about this?
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Oct 19, 2012 22:14
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Eggnogium posted:That's actually the harder way to do it. In OneNote on WP7, desktop, and metro: click the Todo icon, type your first item, hit enter, a new checkbox appears on the next line, type your second item, hit enter, etc. Hey look, I learned something about a thing I use. Yup, works like a charm. Cool. drasticactions posted:Usually I use the touch interface in Metro, and my mouse on the Desktop, which works fine for me. Yeah, the other main approach for making Metro useable on the desktop appears to be a normal PC with a USB touchpad for gestures, which seems unintuitive as hell, so of the two choices I'd much rather have an all-in-one. Getting either one of them to the mainstream still kinda feels like it'll be an uphill battle, though. Dockable tablets will probably take off first. oval office AND PASTE posted:That's neat. It also has nothing to do with Windows 8 or Windows RT. I mean, you're the one who held up a smartphone screenshot as the golden shining example of a "modern reminder app". It really seems like a more important use case for smartphones anyway -- do you use an iPad for to-do lists?
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Oct 19, 2012 22:17
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oval office AND PASTE posted:And it doesn't ship with Windows 8 or Windows RT, and most people won't ever find it. Which one is it? Users are so retarded that they'll be furious they can't install normal programs on their RT tablets or users are so retarded they'll only use the preinstalled apps and never wander into the Microsoft Store?
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Oct 19, 2012 22:20
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loquacius posted:I mean, you're the one who held up a smartphone app as a "modern reminder app". It really seems like a more important use case for smartphones anyway -- do you use an iPad for to-do lists? I don't use an iPad, but I'm sure plenty of people do use reminders on theirs. If I can't compare Windows RT to iOS, what on earth can I compare it to?
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Oct 19, 2012 22:22
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oval office AND PASTE posted:And it doesn't ship with Windows 8 or Windows RT, and most people won't ever find it. People are not going to find a first-party, top-billed app in the app store? That's insane. Man, iPad sure sucks without Netflix support. I mean there's an app in the store but who's going to find that?
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Oct 19, 2012 22:24
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We're not talking about Netflix, we're talking about incredibly basic PIM functionality that has been in every touchscreen productivity device since the Palm Pilot.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:29
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loquacius posted:Yeah, the other main approach for making Metro useable on the desktop appears to be a normal PC with a USB touchpad for gestures, which seems unintuitive as hell, so of the two choices I'd much rather have an all-in-one. Getting either one of them to the mainstream still kinda feels like it'll be an uphill battle, though. Dockable tablets will probably take off first. If the gestures worked as well as do on a Mac with OSX, then I think it could actually work. The big problem though is that nearly all PC Trackpads suck. There are few that probably can run the gestures, and I think all new Ultrabooks are coming with Touchscreens, so few people would use those Gestures. But yeah, I'm not sure how Mainstream users would adjust to it. Most probably won't and go straight to the Desktop. quote:I mean, you're the one who held up a smartphone screenshot as the golden shining example of a "modern reminder app". I love the fact that the "modern reminder app" has a skeuomorph design too.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:30
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drasticactions posted:If the gestures worked as well as do on a Mac with OSX, then I think it could actually work. The big problem though is that nearly all PC Trackpads suck. This is a very good point. I keep on discounting touchpad input, but on Mac laptops it works perfectly. Hopefully some company that isn't Apple figures out how to make those things right at some point, for several reasons.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:33
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oval office AND PASTE posted:We're not talking about Netflix, we're talking about incredibly basic PIM functionality that has been in every touchscreen productivity device since the Palm Pilot. You do realize that the iOS Reminders app was added in iOS 5, right? Before then iPhone/iPad users had to use an app from the App Store.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:38
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Wiseblood posted:They mean Pro can accept RDP connections. All versions can run the client. As long a the RT has a stable RDP app that removes one of the major gripes about RT. The problem that hasnt been addressed is that the surfaceRT doesn't do anything that other 10" tablets already do as well or better and they are charging $600.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:42
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Wiseblood posted:You do realize that the iOS Reminders app was added in iOS 5, right? Before then iPhone/iPad users had to use an app from the App Store. No, they just used Notes.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:45
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Wiseblood posted:You do realize that the iOS Reminders app was added in iOS 5, right? Before then iPhone/iPad users had to use an app from the App Store. This is true. I'm sick of the attitude that things have to be on part with their "perfect" competitors on release. Even then, the niche Surface and WinRT fills is a different niche than the multitudes of iPad owners who use the iPad as a Facebook portal and Angry Birds machine.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:46
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angry_keebler posted:The problem that hasnt been addressed is that the surfaceRT doesn't do anything that other 10" tablets already do as well or better and they are charging $600. I think that's because nearly everybody here agrees that was a terrible idea. Like, I can see what they were getting at -- they're trying to bill this thing as a WinRT equivalent of an iPad, so they made their base price match the newest iPad exactly to drive that perception forward -- but the problem is (a) undercutting them at least a little wouldn't have necessarily made the Surface look like cheap crap if they made sure to revive the "Apple products are overpriced" narrative we're all familiar with, and (b) as you point out, it really isn't equivalent and the touch cover they're promoting as an essential part of the experience is overpriced.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:47
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oval office AND PASTE posted:Again, here is the competition: The "competition" here isn't to the full desktop version of OneNote, it's to OneNote MX, which as has already been said, is closer to the WP7 version in that todo lists are equally as trivial as iOS. The stronger argument (and I think we agree here) is that while your example is built in, people have to go out and find OneNote MX. That's enough to lose a portion of users right off the bat. However, this is actually now a discussion of what the default set of apps should be for a particular form factor. Smartphone? Sure, I agree (it also comes installed by defualt on Windows Phone). Tablet? Much more difficult to argue in my mind. Of course on the other hand this is a tablet that comes with Office!
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Oct 19, 2012 22:53
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Just loving get Evernote, drat
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Oct 20, 2012 00:45
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Yeah, I'm surprised how long that reminders/task list derail took. iOS users lived with 3rd party apps prior to 5.0, I'm sure windows tablet users can get by just fine with that. The more philosophical question is whether windows tablet users will be used to the store app mentality when the desktop is there to confuse them, and we've already gotten into one big circle over that one.
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Oct 20, 2012 01:08
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This is one of the worst discussions I've seen. Who cares about a todo app? If you do, download it from the store.angry_keebler posted:**Actually $600 after we upsell you on a $25 keyboard. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ipad+keyboard Can't find a well made iPad keyboard for $25 (you can get some no name brand one I guess). I can guarantee you that the Microsoft Surface keyboard is a lot nicer than those. Also a lot more intelligent. The keyboard cover was a pretty big engineering feat.
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Oct 20, 2012 01:27
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loquacius posted:I mean, you're the one who held up a smartphone screenshot as the golden shining example of a "modern reminder app". It really seems like a more important use case for smartphones anyway -- do you use an iPad for to-do lists? The apps sync which is really useful, if I'm trying to make an appointment and just have my phone it works okay but I would always much prefer given reasonable circumstances to use the calendar and keyboard on my iPad. I think the heart of the issue is Apple does an incredible job making sure that the iPhone and iPad work together very well, most of the apps are going to work great on both devices and sync flawlessly. Android does a so, so job, they are hampered by the ecosystem mess. Microsoft does not have that mess, or at least shouldn't, Windows Phone and Windows RT should work perfectly together and yet somehow they have an even worse mess than Android. My overall point is Microsoft seems focused on making a horribly confused mess between Windows 8 and Windows RT instead of focusing on what consumers have responded so well to for good reason, making their phones and tablets work flawlessly together.
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Oct 20, 2012 01:56
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Echo_ posted:This is one of the worst discussions I've seen. Who cares about a todo app? If you do, download it from the store. You misunderstand. The type cover is $130, the touch cover is $120. He meant $25 to manufacture, referring to the huge margin on the type and touch cover.
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Oct 20, 2012 02:12
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Magic Underwear posted:You misunderstand. The type cover is $130, the touch cover is $120. He meant $25 to manufacture, referring to the huge margin on the type and touch cover. Yeah, I get that, but still the market for nice iPad keyboards seems to be at $70-$100+ http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/9/3229047/best-ipad-keyboard I can understand the feeling that the keyboard is expensive, but I think compared to the market, it is reasonable, and I think the R&D and manufacturing cost is probably more than $25/keyboard.
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Oct 20, 2012 02:20
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Sporadic posted:Wow, that's retarded. Why wouldn't they just have a Office tile that automatically brings up desktop/office when clicked to avoid confusion? I know we're past this discussion but I'm pretty sure I've seen it pop up a few times and don't think I saw any answers. I'm making a pretty educated guess (I'm smrt) that they wanted people to be able to use Office in its native "dozens of spreadsheets and documents open in windows all overlapping" habitat. To use a fully Metro version of office means comparing documents or spreadsheets would be a pretty big pain since Metro is typically more a "one thing at a time" environemnt. So that's why it's the one thing that gets to work in a desktop mode (along with supporting "productivity" programs like paint/notepad). Who knows, more stuff may be coming in WinRT that will install from the Store but function on the desktop. There is also a touch mode in office that makes it a lot easier to use without a mouse/keyboard to answer an earlier question. OldPueblo fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 04:55
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Echo_ posted:I can understand the feeling that the keyboard is expensive, but I think compared to the market, it is reasonable. Any of the case/keyboard combos for the iPad are also overpriced garbage for dumdums. A bluetooth keyboard is miles better in every single scenario, an you can get a good bluetooth keyboard for ~$25-$30. The transformer keyboards are a little bit better value because the additional weight of the battery makes them more functional as a laptop.
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Oct 20, 2012 05:02
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angry_keebler posted:It isn't really apparent how much of an improvement connected standby will provide over say s3. Connected standby is supposed to go down the list and set everything to D2/D3 (presumably the power key and maybe usb devices will be D2 and everything else will be D3) which should be the same overall power consumption as s3? Even if s3 is using 5 watts to keep the ram and power key alive it seems that the average user having 64 bit win8 would be better than having weeks of standby that they won't be using. I know this is from a few pages back, but I just remembered to ask: What does any of this mean? S3? D2/D3?
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Oct 20, 2012 05:19
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Kazy posted:I know this is from a few pages back, but I just remembered to ask: What does any of this mean? S3? D2/D3? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface The short answer is that they are power states.
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Oct 20, 2012 05:26
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Kazy posted:What does any of this mean? Connected standby is probably a dumb gimmick/lie and even if it isn't and connected standby is the greatest power saving feature it probably won't work for lots of people running 32bit win8 anyway. Most users would probably be better served with hybrid sleep and cold boots on x64 which their processor supports instead of 32bit win8 which all the OEMs are shipping with because microsoft couldn't figure out 64bit connected standby.
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Oct 20, 2012 06:18
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So what the hell is an ATIV anyway
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Oct 20, 2012 07:33
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Nut Bunnies posted:So what the hell is an ATIV anyway A bad product name.
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Oct 20, 2012 07:49
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Nut Bunnies posted:So what the hell is an ATIV anyway It's by Samsung, so you know you can look forward to ATIV 2 in three months.
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Oct 20, 2012 07:53
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Jerk McJerkface posted:I see. I'm sure there will be a ton of teamview apps for RT that will provide the same thing. Nice av. Is that Steve Ballmer?
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Oct 20, 2012 15:01
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Werthog posted:No, there won't. Metro apps are way too restricted to host teamviewer sessions or anything like that. We're talking about outbound remote control sessions, not inbound. (Edit: on a reread, maybe it was about hosting, in which case I agree) Speaking of which, I confirmed yesterday that I could connect to a VM hosted in Azure using the Metro Remote Desktop app. This was a major test for me to see if I could get along with a Surface RT (I do a lot of presentations with PowerPoint and RDP sessions). Looks like I'm good to get one now. beefnoodle fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 15:53
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Werthog posted:No, there won't. Metro apps are way too restricted to host teamviewer sessions or anything like that. Yeah, it just showed up a few weeks ago. I'm not sure who gave it it to me or why.
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Oct 20, 2012 17:34
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beefnoodle posted:We're talking about outbound remote control sessions, not inbound. (Edit: on a reread, maybe it was about hosting, in which case I agree) You have an RT tab?
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Oct 20, 2012 17:59
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Jerk McJerkface posted:You have an RT tab? The app can be installed on RT devices:  I can't imagine why it wouldn't work the same way on ARM, since it's basically useless in that event.
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Oct 20, 2012 18:11
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So with surface pro I'd be able to run cs6 and painter. I right?
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Oct 20, 2012 18:25
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