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Regarding Bend Bars Lift Gates, I do think it has a genuine shortcoming and that is if you tweak your Fighter to be a dexterity monkey and use a Precise weapon, you possibly don't have Strength as your highest priority and thus Bend Bars Lift Gates is less useful. This is a problem with it as a starting move because it means you're basically given a move that is sub-par for your build if you're a dodgemeister with a fencing sword. InfiniteJesters fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 02:44
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Yeah I can do brawler for you dawg.
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May 14, 2013 04:47
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For those of you who haven't already backed Inverse World, this showed up in my email a little while ago:quote:And we start off our second week with 10k broken! With this, we have now unlocked Sean Dunstan’s Instant Island Guide. This is amazing. Thank you everyone for your support. We’re working on our most exciting stretch goal to date, and once we confirm the details we’ll have an announcement.
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May 14, 2013 04:56
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InfiniteJesters posted:Regarding Bend Bars Lift Gates, I do think it has a genuine shortcoming and that is if you tweak your Fighter to be a dexterity monkey and use a Precise weapon, you possibly don't have Strength as your highest priority and thus Bend Bars Lift Gates is less useful. On the other hand, there might be enough unique design space to give The Swashbuckler his own playbook. Hmmmm.
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May 14, 2013 06:32
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Tendales posted:On the other hand, there might be enough unique design space to give The Swashbuckler his own playbook. Hmmmm. There definitely is! Granted it's not like you can't make your own swashbuckling class.
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May 14, 2013 06:35
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I at one point heard that Dungeon World was going to be sold through Amazon.com, is this still a thing that will happen? IPR is out of hardcopies and even if they had one, $11 for shipping is outrageous.
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May 14, 2013 06:38
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Dungeon World's custom class bloat is like 3.5's custom class bloat except every new class is somehow cooler than the last. I find that I absolutely have to trim down on the available classes for first-time players now. I set twenty-two classes in front of my last group and they just stared at me. "How can you ask us to make a choice," they asked, "when all the choices are correct?" God I need to get back to my Beguiler, starting with a better name and going from there.
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May 14, 2013 06:45
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EscortMission posted:Dungeon World's custom class bloat is like 3.5's custom class bloat except every new class is somehow cooler than the last. The big benifit of a DW custom class is that it all fist on between 2 to 4 pages. You don't have to go delving through esoteric volums for a particular feat or skill tree. You don't need a 3rd party app to munchkin the optimal build in order to keep up with the other players and the power bloat of the GM having to ramp up the modifiers. I'm also thinking of doing a +CC game at some stage, where players choose their basic class, and then a compendium class to start with. I think it my be an answer to wanting to make "X, but with Y" characters and still leaving some nieche protection. Other future plans after The Fool is finished, is taking a page from Lemon Curdistan's book and adding CC versions to each of my already released playbooks, and maybe a list of famous curses or wishes to inspire Fae players. speaking of The Fool, it's getting there slowly, I need about 10 more moves.
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May 14, 2013 07:43
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EscortMission posted:Dungeon World's custom class bloat is like 3.5's custom class bloat except every new class is somehow cooler than the last. I agree in theory; there are way too many custom classes for things that should be moves or origin stories. But don't give your players all of them; print Players+2 sheets and give a brief summary. Tonight had a new player and she choose from the Fighter, the Barbarian, and the Medic (which she played as a morally ambivalent half-orc necromaster).
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May 14, 2013 08:18
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I'm considering revisiting my own Impostor class to see if it could use any tweaks--some of its mechanics did feel a little chunky to me. At the least I'd revise it to use Drive+Background; I was just forcing it for the racial moves and I'd be happy to just exchange them for Backgrounds. Also, regarding the custom class bloat, there're a lot of them, yeah. Some of them probably could go to compedium classes and the like (and I considered either revising my Impostor to one or creating a CC variant). That said, for pretty much anything people're excited about and actively creating content for, there'll be a lot of content. If more people were creating compedium classes, we'd be seeing a compedium class bloat. It's just the nature of the beast. I mostly made the Impostor because I wanted there to be a doppleganger style class (and I'm happy that someone's working on a Beguiler--my changeling beguiler was my favorite D&D character I ever played). If I ever produce further Dungeon World content, it'll be other stuff. Compendium classes and the like. However, I'm working on a different *World related project altogether so it's not top priority for me. As for how I handled providing custom classes to players, I pretty much asked my late-joining player what kind of character they wanted to play. They said gunslinger. So now I've got a kobold Spellslinger in my game. The rest of my players joined before all this custom class bloom and just played main book classes. Overall I'd recommend either picking a pre-chosen selection of options or just asking them what kind of character they want to play and offering them an custom class appropriate to their concept. Speaking of, I've been enjoying running my Dungeon World game. It's been far easier managing a system that takes most of the math out of my head and lets me just focus on what's going on. Plus, I've a fun party. A kobold serving a dragon she correlates with regularly by mail, a human thief serving a mysterious master obsessed with the ideal of beauty, a dwarf fighter from a culture that overthrew its monarchy to establish a theocracy ran by legal precedents and principles, and a gorgon mage that decided to see if non-gorgons really were as bad as her mother made them out to be. There's this premise that mysterious dungeons've been appearing all over, and increasingly more of them're appearing, even replacing small trading outposts and other civilized constructions. I've been able to run with some unusual dungeon concepts like a dungeon made completely out of runes, a beautiful maze garden, a bleak and gloomy open area of darkness where the forsaken are doomed to dwell, and more. And the *World engine handles it all pretty effortlessly, just throw situations at the players and trigger moves. Kaja Rainbow fucked around with this message at 13:12 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 13:08
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With regards to the "custom class bloat" I don't feel it's an issue. I'm sure we'd all love our players to come to the table with their own perfect creation of a character outside of the "fighter, mage, thief" trope, but the truth is people need a spark. I give all my players all the names of the classes and a very short description beforehand and let them pick whatever they like the most or send me a message and work out a class + compendium class combo that fits what they want. I did a one shot with a Giant, an Inverse World Captain and Mechanic, a City Thief, a Fighter and a Shaman and it was an absolute blast. A couple of my players said they enjoyed it more than other RPGs because of the variety of classes on offer. Of course there are overlaps where you could say this class is basically this but with that added on but that's the whole point. Players (and GMs!), like interesting things to happen and if you give someone the opportunity to play what they want but also be able to give them a framework then you are on to a winner.
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May 14, 2013 13:42
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vulgey posted:With regards to the "custom class bloat" I don't feel it's an issue. I'm sure we'd all love our players to come to the table with their own perfect creation of a character outside of the "fighter, mage, thief" trope, but the truth is people need a spark. I give all my players all the names of the classes and a very short description beforehand and let them pick whatever they like the most or send me a message and work out a class + compendium class combo that fits what they want. I did a one shot with a Giant, an Inverse World Captain and Mechanic, a City Thief, a Fighter and a Shaman and it was an absolute blast. A couple of my players said they enjoyed it more than other RPGs because of the variety of classes on offer. Honestly, where I'm at now is mostly thinking my ideas are better for compendium classes. I'm thinking I'll be submitting some to Grim Portents for Vol 3.
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May 14, 2013 16:20
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Oh no, no no no no, what I meant was that it's like the exact opposite of 3.5 class bloat. Instead of a new class being a vaguely new variant on something that already exists, I have been absolutely thrilled at the idea to play as almost every single new Dungeon World class. Even fairly similar seeming classes (Walker vs Assassin vs Thief, Fighter vs Improved Fighter vs Barbarian vs Gladiator, Wizard vs Mage) play out in drastically different fashions because there's so much design space available. The problem with having "too many classes" isn't that there are too many, it's that there are so many cool ones that it's hard to make an immediate decision. I can live with that problem. EscortMission fucked around with this message at 17:06 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 17:02
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I have a growing list of characters waiting to be played in Dungeon World. We are getting close to the end of the DW campaign MSW has been running since January, and as much as I adore my character in that campaign, and all the stuff the other PC's do, I cant wait to dive into something new. This forum has been an absolutely amazing resource for what i think are undoubtedly the coolest stuff for DW. Seriously Amazing work all around, to everyone. Please Keep it pouring in.
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May 14, 2013 18:38
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Anybody have any recommendations for some 3rd party spell lists?
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May 14, 2013 18:44
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Fenarisk posted:Yeah I can do brawler for you dawg. That's awesome, thanks! I'll have a bit of spare time over the next couple of weeks and want to test out my brute/ necromancer, thinking about running a one-shot PBP adventure. Anyone else wanting classes tested? I know LC wanted the armormaster, right?
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May 14, 2013 18:47
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Elmo Oxygen posted:Anybody have any recommendations for some 3rd party spell lists? Spell Lists are a D&D sacred cow that are nowhere near as fun as making up your spells a la The Mage 
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May 14, 2013 18:52
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So, after a little extra tuning, I think that Beguiler might be ready for some critique.Beguiler posted:THE BEGUILER
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May 14, 2013 19:09
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EscortMission posted:Dungeon World's custom class bloat is like 3.5's custom class bloat except every new class is somehow cooler than the last. I haven't actually tried this yet but I was planning to start a game by asking each player what one thing they want to be able to do and then letting them chose from playbooks that do that thing really well. You want to hit things? Here's the fighter, the improved fighter, the giant and the... You want to cast spells? Here's the wizard, the mage, the warlock and the...
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May 15, 2013 09:15
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Bucnasti posted:I haven't actually tried this yet but I was planning to start a game by asking each player what one thing they want to be able to do and then letting them chose from playbooks that do that thing really well. Yeah I'm planning to run some DW at a convention and wondering which playbooks to bring. I might narrow it down to twelve or so, enough for a group of 6 to have a bit of choice. So many good options that I wonder if I should even include some of the base classes like Wizard.
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May 15, 2013 09:34
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I've been following this thread for a bit now and all the awesome additional classes and has gotten me inspired to try and do the same thing. This was originally going to be a full class... but I couldn't think of enough stuff to really pad it out, so I went with a Compendium Class instead. I'm rather prone to jumping in on ideas without really thinking a lot of the parts through, so please let me know if this idea is at all interesting and/or salvageable. quote:
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May 15, 2013 19:35
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Well, I finished writing up a DW class, the Metamorph. The main idea behind it being something that focuses on shape shifting and adaptibility, taking cues from the conflux in the OP and things like prototype and maybe a nicer version of the resident evil tyrants. If you could give it a lookover and tell me if there's anything that could be improved, clarified, removed or otherwise I'd appreciate it.
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May 15, 2013 19:55
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Kobold posted:The Masquerade Looks fine, honestly. The only real problem move is You Shouldn't Have Done That, because as the Masquerade masks are kind of your thing. If you're losing masks and having them turned on you often, either it's a cool 'Turn their move back on them/Show a downside to their class' move being made in response to a poor roll or you're really trying to make it happen. In the former case, the move becomes a weird insurance to roll after screwing up a roll (you should be encouraged to embrace failures and weave them into your adventure, not take every mechanical opportunity to blot them out), and in the latter case you should already have a plan in mind that works when someone uses the mask. It seems kind of pointless as a move, all things considered. Otherwise, I feel like some kind of clarification for how convincing the masks look up close is needed. Do you have to use He Could Be You to make a mask that doesn't make you look like you're wearing a mask, or does Man of a Thousand Faces do that for you too? unzealous posted:Well, I finished writing up a DW class, the Metamorph. Morphology's limit is extremely high at a 10 minimum, and being able to regenerate all of that just by eating means all you have to do to turn yourself into a constant battery is bring a bunch of food with you. Being able to do your cool thing all the time is fine, but it makes me wonder why there's a pool like this in the first place. Altering Organs should have a more significant downside on a 6-. Being flashy means nothing if you're not sneaking and having something take on a similar function just means you look goofy but can ultimately do what you wanted without any real problems. Instead of being a minor inconvenience unless you were trying to be stealthy, a non-focus of the class, you should instead change into something terrible or have something really screw up. The 'flashy' choice makes 7-9's a non-factor most of the time, and really should just be gutted for something more significant. Enhanced Stamina is a laughable bonus. Considering I use CON for rolls, my Constitution will probably be 16-18. If I find a way to spend 20 morph before I can eat again, there's probably a pacing problem. Eyes All Over Your Head grants an interesting fictional trigger, albeit one that you should just be spending Morph on. Not only should it not really need a mechanical booster on top of that, it absolutely should not be a +2 always-on bonus. At best it should be a +1 if your amazing sight can be applied to the situation at hand, because seeing really well won't always help you Discern Realities. Viscera Shift is just too strong with the current Morph pool given how often you can do it and probably still not scrape the bottom of your Morph pool. Assuming you meant to make Morph CON+2 instead, I suppose this is more fair. Seems strange that you'd spend the only resource you have to do your cool thing for something as plain as damage mitigation, though. Extra Armed and Dangerous doesn't give us tags to use. Does this mean I can make up tags? How much damage or piercing am I allowed in one tag? Can I make it distracting or flaming? Harder, Better is weird, and I'd like you to compare it to the Druid's Formcrafter. This allows you to do something similar, but only while you're shapeshifted (being morphed would be a parallel here) and it forces you to acknowledge a downside to your form by way of the GM choosing a stat. This is cool because you can make yourself better at something you expect to happen soon, but there's a tradeoff that might make you fail something else and allow you to talk about how your downside caught up to you. In comparison, 'Harder, Better' just seems like a boring, always-on bonus. Omniphage breaks the entire class. Suddenly I can just tear a rock out of the wall or pick up some dirt and spend a moment to shove it in my mouth to regenerate all of my Morph. Regardless of how big the Morph pool actually is, it doesn't matter anymore. Now you have to solidify a really weird, exact reading of how a Metamorph has to eat in order to actually regain Morph or I can just abuse the poo poo out of this and only run out of Morph in really dire circumstances. I'm having a hard time seeing what I can do with Absolute Fluidity that I couldn't have done by just turning my skeleton into jelly and squeezing through improbable cracks like an octopus. Short of dripping through a filter I don't know why I can't just do this at level 1. Enduring Change changes the 1-hour trigger, which was easier to justify as "a decent amount of time, might wear off at a bad time" to the weird concept of a 'day', which pretty much just means you can sit around eating before an adventure and make a bunch of morphs that will last the whole session. Bonus points if you're an Omniphage and can just eat grass instead of rations. Short of making sure your wings don't fall apart mid-flight (which would lead to cool poo poo happening!), this just feels kind of lame more than anything. It takes the excitement and unreliability out of being the strange and constantly morphing creature, which seems to be a pretty cool downside of the class. There's some cool things here and all of the stuff definitely feels like I'm a strange creature, but I really feel like the Morph pool should be a hold system of some sort instead of forcing me to take a rest. Make interesting and strange things happen when you roll low, forcing you to adapt in significant ways instead of just dealing with a minor change that ultimately lets you do exactly what you planned to do anyways. Forcing the Metamorph to make the party wait around while he regenerates his class feature is odd when the only other case of that is Spells, which can easily be kept throughout an entire session in exchange for a different penalty.
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May 15, 2013 22:21
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sentrygun posted:Looks fine, honestly. The only real problem move is You Shouldn't Have Done That, because as the Masquerade masks are kind of your thing. If you're losing masks and having them turned on you often, either it's a cool 'Turn their move back on them/Show a downside to their class' move being made in response to a poor roll or you're really trying to make it happen. In the former case, the move becomes a weird insurance to roll after screwing up a roll (you should be encouraged to embrace failures and weave them into your adventure, not take every mechanical opportunity to blot them out), and in the latter case you should already have a plan in mind that works when someone uses the mask. It seems kind of pointless as a move, all things considered. Such as replacing the penalty with "With a bit of concentration, you can see through the eyes of your missing mask" or "You can speak through the mask's mouth." Flavorful things to play with. Of course, then there's also the idea of changing it so you can do that with any of your masks, no matter the circumstance... which could also be interesting. Hm. As for the second point, I was thinking Man of a Thousand Faces would cover just trying to blend in and not be noticed. He Could Be You was more for if you were trying to create a mask to imitate a specific person. I could technically put in a straight roll+CHA for Thousand Faces with similar negative choices as in He Could Be You, though, to detail how well-made the masks are if that sort of clarification was needed. I was going to leave the general collection of masks to include actual mask-masks and more realistic masks that don't really look like anyone and/or are relatively obvious under close scrutiny.
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May 15, 2013 22:39
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Kobold posted:What if I changed it to someone taking and then trying to USE said mask without your consent? Other options could include less penalties to the new owner of the mask and more... stuff the Masquerade could do with it? I feel like it'd be cooler if it was just a move about doing things to your masks remotely. Making them talk, seeing/hearing through them, making their eyes light up, and so on. This way you could use the move in more circumstances while still being able to use it when they get stolen or used without your permission. Makes the move more interesting overall and doesn't even compromise your original idea.
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May 15, 2013 23:07
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Sure thing, how about something like this?quote:Veneer, Far, Wherever You Are... Pun title is a placeholder until I can think of something better, and ellipsis for any other additional fun things that should be added for remote mask use. Also, with that sort of thing, maybe I should bump it to 2 on 7-9, 3 on 10+? Or is it pretty balanced as is?
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May 15, 2013 23:26
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I was thinking more along the lines of the mask being anywhere. Say your rich target finds a neat mask of yours and hangs it on their wall, now you have a magic camera installed in their manor! It also doesn't seem like a thing you should make X choices on either. Either it's just a thing you can do since ultimately your mask can't take any real action, or it's a roll to see if you can make a proper connection with the mask from a distance. Choosing X is weird when you might just want to do one thing with it, or check it regularly.
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May 15, 2013 23:45
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Made a new weapon tag that I'm using quite a lot to describe stuff for my Brute class: Blunt: It can break or smash bones and armour, or leave victims with internal injuries. I think it's different enough from messy and forceful to be useful. sentrygun posted:I was thinking more along the lines of the mask being anywhere. Say your rich target finds a neat mask of yours and hangs it on their wall, now you have a magic camera installed in their manor! I agree, rolling to see if you get a decent connection is definitely better than limited options. EscortMission posted:So, after a little extra tuning, I think that Beguiler might be ready for some critique.
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May 15, 2013 23:58
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Simple enough. Changed to being usable whenever the mask isn't in your possession, and the rolls affect connection with 7-9 being "there is something off with your connection, your DM will tell you how." The list has also been identified as a list of things you are able to do with the mask once connection has been established, rather than choices to have to pick from. I also adjusted the wording on Man of a Thousand Faces: "You have amassed a number of masks ranging from party masks to semi-realistic masks of generic individuals, and can make use of them to help avoid detection. If there are any Outstanding Warrants out for a character wearing one of your masks, they are not recognized as long as they wear one of your masks. Any other affects of an Outstanding Warrant occur as normal." Hopefully the clarification on the types of masks helps answer some of the questions you had, sentry?
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May 16, 2013 00:23
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Semi-realistic alone is probably fine for clarifying that the masks won't really pass for a proper face unless viewed from a distance, so mentioning generic individuals is probably unneeded. It definitely clears up the confusion though, so I think you're good to go!
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May 16, 2013 00:26
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I recently bought the hardcopy+pdf combo from Indie Press, and I received the hardcopy maybe a day or two ago, but I'm not sure where or how to obtain the PDF version. Does anyone know where to get them, or should I contact IPR themselves?
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May 16, 2013 00:49
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So I've got a question for gnome and/or Mikan, maybe it was answered earlier so I apologize if it was. In the Inverse World playbooks that you opened up to Kickstarter backers I noticed that the Mechanic has only six 6-10 advanced moves while all the rest are 2-5 moves. I know there isn't really any hard and fast rule to how many of each "block" of moves you make (except "you have to have a minimum of five" I suppose) but all the other playbooks have a more even distribution of advanced moves and I'm wondering why you opted to skew that for the Mechanic.
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May 16, 2013 03:04
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sentrygun posted:Critique I see, I appreciate the insight, let me continue working on it and see what I can come up with. To the first part it's meant to read constitution bonus+2, a significantly smaller pool, but definitely a huge oversight on my part. I see how that would absolutely screw up the rest of the class resource wise. unzealous fucked around with this message at 03:17 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 03:04
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Kai Tave posted:So I've got a question for gnome and/or Mikan, maybe it was answered earlier so I apologize if it was. In the Inverse World playbooks that you opened up to Kickstarter backers I noticed that the Mechanic has only six 6-10 advanced moves while all the rest are 2-5 moves. I know there isn't really any hard and fast rule to how many of each "block" of moves you make (except "you have to have a minimum of five" I suppose) but all the other playbooks have a more even distribution of advanced moves and I'm wondering why you opted to skew that for the Mechanic. Primarily, that's because half of the Mechanic's 2-5 moves are "add these to the list and then choose a new thing for your mech." A lot of advances were taken up in just improving the mech, and I don't think it would make the class more interesting to move some of them to 6-10 moves. I'd rather have all the customization available at any time. Taking those out of the picture, the split becomes something like 10/6, which is still skewed towards the bottom, but I liked all the 2-5 moves I had so. Basically the answer is "because that's what I ended up with." gnome7 fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 03:51
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Now that a lot of people are replacing Race with Drive, I think there's room for reviving an old tradition of D&D: The Racial Class. So basically what I'm saying is, I'm gonna write Elf, Dwarf and Halfling playbooks. Any requests?
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May 16, 2013 03:58
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Now that a lot of people are replacing Race with Drive, I think there's room for reviving an old tradition of D&D: The Racial Class. If you're looking to do something a bit different, I'd like to see an Ogre Magi, Githyanki, or Ithilid playbook. They're the three custom race-classes I use for my b/x setting.
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May 16, 2013 04:15
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Gith could be fun, I'll toss out another vote for that. Also Warforged.
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May 16, 2013 04:31
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Earth elementals. I was thinking of ways to have an earth elemental character, and just a single race move wouldn't cut it.
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May 16, 2013 04:56
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Fertile ground, then. With the Giant stuff lately, I figured DW would be open to this sort of thing. Exploration of fantasy races is one of those sadly lacking topics in fantasy gaming, usually limited to templates or a couple of +2 bonuses when there's so much potential to emphasize culture and characteristics. I'll do those core three first and then do whatever, but maybe someone else will be inspired to do Gith or Giff or so on in the meantime. In fact, have a Mounted Combat preview for you D&D-In-Space folks. quote:Space Jammer
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May 16, 2013 05:02
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gnome7 posted:Primarily, that's because half of the Mechanic's 2-5 moves are "add these to the list and then choose a new thing for your mech." A lot of advances were taken up in just improving the mech, and I don't think it would make the class more interesting to move some of them to 6-10 moves. I'd rather have all the customization available at any times. Taking those out of the picture, the split becomes something like 10-6, which is still skewed towards the bottom, but I liked all the 2-5 moves I had so. This really makes a lot of sense, especially since you can always go back and pick a 2-5 move if none of the 6-10 ones suit your tastes. Really, the main benifit from having the 6-10 option at all is to either more easily separate upgrade moves from their origin move, or to lock away more powerful moves behind an advancement gate (Which is a more dubious benifit). I'm not sure what would happen if you removed the distinction between 2-5 moves and 6-10 moves entirely, it might work just fine, or it could all collapse in a burning, screaming mess. I'm always more likely to put the more fun or interesting moves into the 2-5 section though, since that's where most games start and I don't see why all the exciting stuff should be locked away as 'end-game content' Front-load the class with all the cool toys that make you want to play it, and tuck the mechanical upgrades to those cool toys up in the back. Speaking of flaming, screaming messes, The Fool is getting closer to completion. Another move or two, Gear and other sundries, (Gear is always the last thing I write for some reason) and I'll be ready to turn it into a playbook.
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May 16, 2013 06:14
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