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in this version of defcon I feel civs could be more or less ignored. very easy to game it so you get one per cycle and smart nuking took a lot of threat out of it by making basestars defcon pinatas
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Aug 1, 2015 00:44
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The best quorum and the worst Caprica luck made this game rather dull to read 
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Aug 1, 2015 00:45
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maybe keep escorting a thing and have civs give -1 defcon if on the board when you jump, but I dunno if thats too action heavy
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Aug 1, 2015 00:48
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Thanks Cocks for running, and thanks everyone else who played. Was a fun first time playing BSG online! Maybe make basestars worth only +1 DEFCON? I'm not sure how to keep civs relevant again without driving pilots crazy unfortunately. Maybe every two civs left on the board is -1 DEFCON when you jump?
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Aug 1, 2015 00:50
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Woo! Go humans!
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Aug 1, 2015 00:53
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Yeah +2 is too much. Maybe + any is not even needed? I'm up to mod one more game if I can just find the right formula. Last game was too hard. This game kinda too easy. Something in between?
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Aug 1, 2015 00:58
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Also, I'm hoping to run a game shortly to give others a chance to play. Still trying to figure out if there's a version of Deckcylon that's updated for the SA cardset, though. Cocks, that's what you used for this game, right?
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Aug 1, 2015 00:59
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Cocks Cable posted:Yeah +2 is too much. Maybe + any is not even needed? I'm up to mod one more game if I can just find the right formula. Last game was too hard. This game kinda too easy. Something in between? I would be concerned that if you don't incentivize blowing them up, then people would be content to ignore them. The -DEFCON for leaving them there when you jump away is neat, but... Worth considering.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:00
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I have a heavily modified set for all the variant/customization crap. You can have it but you'll have to be comfortable editing XML if you need any changes. Just PM me your email.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:02
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Editing XML is not an issue. Thanks!
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Aug 1, 2015 01:02
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Cocks Cable posted:3) +2 defcon from basestars is bad. Easily milked increases to defcon is bad. Something still needs to be tweaked here. Just not sure what. From watching the games with these DEFCON tweaks, I feel like it might not be necessary to give +DEFCON for killing ships. There's already two incentives to blowing things up: If they're dead they can't hurt you, and if they're dead they don't reduce DEFCON when you jump. If you think that players would still just ignore ships and go for jumps all the time, make ships (especially basestars and especially undamaged basestars) drop DEFCON even harder. Maybe make undamaged basestars hit DEFCON for -4 and damaged ones -2? Or, if you're fine with making it slightly more complicated, basestars reduce DEFCON by 1, and an additional 1 for each hitpoint they still have. It works out the same on average, though.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:17
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code:
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Aug 1, 2015 01:18
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Klades posted:From watching the games with these DEFCON tweaks, I feel like it might not be necessary to give +DEFCON for killing ships. There's already two incentives to blowing things up: If they're dead they can't hurt you, and if they're dead they don't reduce DEFCON when you jump. If you think that players would still just ignore ships and go for jumps all the time, make ships (especially basestars and especially undamaged basestars) drop DEFCON even harder. Maybe make undamaged basestars hit DEFCON for -4 and damaged ones -2? Or, if you're fine with making it slightly more complicated, basestars reduce DEFCON by 1, and an additional 1 for each hitpoint they still have. It works out the same on average, though. Somewhat inclined to agree with this. At least in our other game the crisis deck has decided to actively gently caress over the humans, keeping it interesting.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:20
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Also honestly, the Cylons got a rough deal this game other than Chief's very good reveal, for quite a few factors: - Chief had very few opportunities to sabotage, even with all of us thinking we were on Cruise Ship Galactica. - We had very good dice luck early on that drove DEFCON way up, and it kind of stayed there in perfect sync with jumps. - Apollo was probably one of the best possible options for Team Human to lose at sleeper, since we had a second pilot and the characters chosen meant that he couldn't even hold onto the presidency long enough to do damage. - For love or money Cylons could NOT keep any of our resources in the danger zone for long thanks to our frankly ridiculous Quorum draws.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:21
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Congrats humans! I'm on the phone so I'll post full thoughts later but my main worry on the variant is that Cylons don't really have any strong way to protect space beyond hoping that poo poo is already going wrong - this kind of turns CACs into a vicious or a virtuous circle, where humans either have spare time to clear space and thus earn more of a reprieve, or else get hammered and thus more hammered. I love the idea of it though, hope it can be balanced. That Water Shortage was excruciating.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:22
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And, of course, thanks to Cocks for running!
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Aug 1, 2015 01:23
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Stelas posted:Congrats humans! I'm on the phone so I'll post full thoughts later but my main worry on the variant is that Cylons don't really have any strong way to protect space beyond hoping that poo poo is already going wrong - this kind of turns CACs into a vicious or a virtuous circle, where humans either have spare time to clear space and thus earn more of a reprieve, or else get hammered and thus more hammered. I love the idea of it though, hope it can be balanced. No matter what, that was still a really fun reveal to deal with. It's just a shame Apollo didn't get his glorious dogfight with Scar.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:23
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I'd argue what turned the game around was the ABFs popping the cents. Cents are frequent game enders for team Cylon, so to defuse that situation as fast as it formed was pretty remarkable. The Cylon attack card system on the whole can be very fluky and pro human, even with defcon. The basestar bridge is maddening, but pretty consistent in keeping pressure on the pilots. That was missing this game. Killing Cylon ships was almost always just for bonus defcon points. Maybe keep Cylon space areas but make the bridge sites non-useable? Overall I agree it was pleasure cruise Galactica. The worst results (failed airlocking) still weren't too damaging. Food was tight but it's not something cylons can easily target. The best characters to keep as humans stayed as humans (Cylon tigh could have been very dangerous!). Cocks: good job running this. Fast as hell game for pbp. Few errors were inconsequential. Sorry it was boring. Not every game can be conga out the airlock.
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Aug 1, 2015 06:22
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Pander posted:Cents are frequent game enders for team Cylon  Citation needed.
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Aug 1, 2015 06:29
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RL game history? That one forum game I was in where there were 3 at once and we couldn't get them all? Heavies seem so harmless, but once cents get on board with 2 or 3 Cylon players able to progress them, it can snowball fast. They are kinda like a space alert element, where you just kinda lose them in the shuffle of other fires that need to be put out.
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Aug 1, 2015 06:34
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Klades posted:From watching the games with these DEFCON tweaks, I feel like it might not be necessary to give +DEFCON for killing ships. There's already two incentives to blowing things up: If they're dead they can't hurt you, and if they're dead they don't reduce DEFCON when you jump. If you think that players would still just ignore ships and go for jumps all the time, make ships (especially basestars and especially undamaged basestars) drop DEFCON even harder. Maybe make undamaged basestars hit DEFCON for -4 and damaged ones -2? Or, if you're fine with making it slightly more complicated, basestars reduce DEFCON by 1, and an additional 1 for each hitpoint they still have. It works out the same on average, though. Pretty much agree. Think I will try the following: keep +7 defcon, get rid of the plus defcon bonus for shooting things, but keep the minus defcon stuff the same. I just wish there was some way to give pilot's a job boost and more unique contribution to the team.
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Aug 2, 2015 04:00
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+1-2 DEFCON for escorting?
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Aug 2, 2015 04:20
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Escorting is already pretty good by itself, but its also really boring (which is why i didn't include it). Pilots spend all their actions vacuuming up civs rather than shooting stuff. It's like a police officer directing traffic. Maybe +1 defcon for Pilots shooting down X Raiders (even though I'm iffy on the + defcon anything)? I guess that would be a unique thing that they do and you couldn't just replace them with Main Batteries.
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Aug 2, 2015 04:36
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