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Answers Me posted:Forget brown people and gays, the Daily Mail have a new boogeyman, THE SCOTTISH We're more proud we've remained a single nation but we don't actually like the bit that decided to let us continue to be a complete nation. Also please please give us an English parliament we really need to gently caress up some foxes. It's ridiculous but it's the Mail so whatever.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:44
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Spangly A posted:£8 is a start but we really do need some proper support for living wages that isn't Boris Johnson. It's not even a start tho is it, it's the end. £8 an hour, by 2020.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:47
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Spooky Hyena posted:Doesn't even cover my bus fares. And it assumes Labour will keep these promises after winning the election, and they've had trouble recently keeping promises lasting a few days. What currently covers your bus fare?
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Sep 21, 2014 18:54
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Kin posted:Yeah, I'll bet we'll not even see a shadow of the scaremongering that was thrown at Scotland during the referendum. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763953/Ed-Miliband-makes-election-pledge-raise-minimum-wage-8-hour-adding-3-000-pay-packets.html quote:Ed Miliband was under fire from business leaders to today after kicking off the Labour Party conference with a general election pledge to increase the minimum wage to at least £8 an hour. There you go, took them less than 8 hours to get started.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:54
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serious gaylord posted:What currently covers your bus fare? £480 a year, five £96 tickets that last 10 weeks each (Glasgow doesn't have a yearly ticket for First busses). Doesn't include the travel outside of Glasgow I need to do every so often.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:58
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OwlFancier posted:£450 a year extra, per year, doesn't sound too bad to me. Yeah but don't forget that's £8 in 2020 money - over the last ten years the minimum wage has increased by an average of ~2.3% a year or so, so you'd expect it to be around £7.45 in 2020, at a minimum. If the last rise of 3% became a trend (which I doubt, but that's what ~business leaders~ are claiming in the media - no need to do anything!) it'll be about £7.75. I mean that's still a significant boost, which is good, but you have to compare to what it will be otherwise. And even then, inflation wipes a lot of that out. It's nothing like getting a raise to £8 right now
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Sep 21, 2014 19:22
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29299873 Political journalism 
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Sep 21, 2014 19:24
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baka kaba posted:Yeah but don't forget that's £8 in 2020 money - over the last ten years the minimum wage has increased by an average of ~2.3% a year or so, so you'd expect it to be around £7.45 in 2020, at a minimum. If the last rise of 3% became a trend (which I doubt, but that's what ~business leaders~ are claiming in the media - no need to do anything!) it'll be about £7.75. In terms of how the NMW has risen over the last twenty years, it's actually worse than that; the NMW would be £8.25 in 2020 if it continued rising as it has done.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:28
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Answers Me posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29299873 loving hell.. It is a shame Gordon Brown isn't going to get a bit more attention in the Labour party. I mean the Tories keep IDS around despite him being a perpetual loving failure. Brown struggled as an end-term PM, but he's very experienced, clearly quite capable, and seems like a nice guy. Is this due to cliques in the party, or just association with New Labour?
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Sep 21, 2014 19:33
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winegums posted:loving hell.. He spent his time as PM being routinely slaughtered by the right wing press, Miliband won't want that kind of additional heat on him.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:39
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TinTower posted:In terms of how the NMW has risen over the last twenty years, it's actually worse than that; the NMW would be £8.25 in 2020 if it continued rising as it has done. Yeah I calculated it from a few starting years to ballpark an average (ballpark is a good word but it feels weird saying it), the data I was looking at started in 2005 and things were looking a lot more optimistic even then. Still, £8.25 is a pretty big difference
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Sep 21, 2014 19:45
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keep punching joe posted:He spent his time as PM being routinely slaughtered by the right wing press, Miliband won't want that kind of additional heat on him. IDS didnt fare much better during his time as leader. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSH SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSH
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Sep 21, 2014 19:47
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LemonDrizzle posted:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763953/Ed-Miliband-makes-election-pledge-raise-minimum-wage-8-hour-adding-3-000-pay-packets.html "VOTE LABOUR AND STANDARD LIFE WILL LEAVE THE loving PLANET" keep punching joe posted:He spent his time as PM being routinely slaughtered by the right wing press, Miliband won't want that kind of additional heat on him. If he came back to the cabinet then they'd also need to deal with stories about his mental health and lovely attitude towards his staff again.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:49
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Does "Urge other ethnic groups to back British values" mean it's OK to disagree with them but only if you're white? edit: though it's nice that even 69% of Heil readers think Andy Murray's tweet was irrelevant and 58% think the party leaders should actually, you know, do what they said they'd do. Zephro fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 20:47
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You would think that the great majority of those businesses who pay far in excess of the minimum (remember the median is £11 an hour) would be all for an increase, more disposable income = more trade = larger gdp. There was a group of them earlier in the week asking for it to go up. £10 is a good starting point. Also get rid of Swedish Derogation at the same time as 0 hours contracts.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:12
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baka kaba posted:Yeah but don't forget that's £8 in 2020 money - over the last ten years the minimum wage has increased by an average of ~2.3% a year or so, so you'd expect it to be around £7.45 in 2020, at a minimum. If the last rise of 3% became a trend (which I doubt, but that's what ~business leaders~ are claiming in the media - no need to do anything!) it'll be about £7.75. At this point I'm just thankful that I'm not going to end up going to jail for being unemployed  A below-the-average pay rise sounds quite nice in comparison.Collateral posted:Also get rid of Swedish Derogation at the same time as 0 hours contracts. I'm sure if you do it'll just result in everyone getting fired instead of on a 0 hours contract.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:14
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0 hours contracts have their place, relief workers for example. Could be better regulated though. Apprenticeships stacking shelves and poo poo like that needs to go though.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:21
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Jesus gently caress if the same companies that threatened to leave in the case of Scottish independence threaten to leave in the case of a minimum wage but the latter threat ends up being somehow less credible than the former one I will flip my poo poo.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:30
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OwlFancier posted:At this point I'm just thankful that I'm not going to end up going to jail for being unemployed You think those parcels are going to sort themselves? Honestly I have first-hand experience of both, those are jobs that that need an employee to do. If an employer only has employees on 0 hours contracts, and he fires them all when those contracts are banned then they won't have a business anymore. If their business model is based on ultra casual cheap labour then we are well rid of them. The whole basis of 0 hours and SD is to save money, not to free up money to employ more people. Just about every agency that employs on 0-hours and SD end up with poor applicants. My current employer pays £7.50 on SD, compared to £9.40 of company employees, and tend to go through 3 people before they get one they are happy with. Fine I am ok with a probationary rate, but some have been on the SD agency rate for 2 years.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:31
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Coohoolin posted:Jesus gently caress if the same companies that threatened to leave in the case of Scottish independence threaten to leave in the case of a minimum wage but the latter threat ends up being somehow less credible than the former one I will flip my poo poo. I can't wait till the bosses of the supermarkets start showing up claiming that food might become more expensive as further devolved powers might make it more expensive for them to operate in one part of a country over another. I especially can't wait for the price of the pound to "fall" in the fear of unknown powers being assigned in some unknown way across England creating a clusterfuck of economic uncertainty and for ALL the papers and politicians to try and drive that fearful outcome into the populace.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:01
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Collateral posted:You think those parcels are going to sort themselves? Honestly I have first-hand experience of both, those are jobs that that need an employee to do. If an employer only has employees on 0 hours contracts, and he fires them all when those contracts are banned then they won't have a business anymore. If their business model is based on ultra casual cheap labour then we are well rid of them. The whole basis of 0 hours and SD is to save money, not to free up money to employ more people. Some are better than others, yeah, I'm on one and I'll be pulling probably 45 or so hours next week, but a couple of weeks ago it was 10. It's sort of unavoidable for the work and I only get minimum wage but it's better than the dole. We do go through people fairly fast though, and employ a lot of people for only a few hours a week. I'd be worried about a sweeping 0 hour ban causing a lot of people to get fired due to the sheer logistics problem it would cause in companies that rely on it.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:25
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OwlFancier posted:I'd be worried about a sweeping 0 hour ban causing a lot of people to get fired due to the sheer logistics problem it would cause in companies that rely on it. Economic uncertainty is not a better choice than proper state entitlements for all citizens. But really you can't get rid of them yet for this reason. Banning zero hours really would gently caress over quite a few people, and while the companies using them are unquestionably unethical and exploitative, there's no proper social floor for those that use them.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:41
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Spangly A posted:Economic uncertainty is not a better choice than proper state entitlements for all citizens. Well, yes but 'proper state entitlements' apparently means people on jobseekers are the economic original sin and aren't trying hard enough. So the proper use of state money is to throw it at privatised ersatz-jobcenters to tell them to work harder. Zero hour contracts are the lesser dropped-ball I think.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:52
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Such good news we're retiring that "minimum wage" term and substituting in much more positive, Orwellian language instead. Tally-ho!
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Sep 21, 2014 22:53
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The NHS uses a hell of a lot of staff who are technically on 'zero-hours' contracts. A lot of work done is now commissioned on a temporary basis and finance officers are often reluctant to allow staff to be hired on a permanent or even fixed-term basis. Even when the expectation is that the contract for services will be renewed. Ironically, there's currently a push towards persuading locum staff to take zero-hours contracts. Possibly to reduce the apparent 'agency spend'.
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Sep 21, 2014 23:02
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According to Ed Balls we have to freeze child benefit to balance the economy. It's time to buckle up your jelly sandals kids and stop mooching off your parents for god's sake you're almost 3.
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Sep 22, 2014 00:05
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tdrules posted:According to Ed Balls we have to freeze child benefit to balance the economy. Milk snatching is a proud British tradition. 
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Sep 22, 2014 00:08
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tdrules posted:According to Ed Balls we have to freeze child benefit to balance the economy. Have 25 hours of free childcare instead...hmmm..which is worth more? A cut in child benefit or an additional 10 hours of childcare? 50p tax band and a Mansion tax on houses over £2m. Increased funding for the NHS too. Fairly decent so far. HortonNash fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 00:43
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tdrules posted:According to Ed Balls we have to freeze child benefit to balance the economy. I'm becoming a father in February so let it be known that I HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS (I don't like it one bit.)
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Sep 22, 2014 00:55
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LemonDrizzle posted:I don't think that announcing something in a widely publicised conference speech really counts as 'only whispering' - if you wanted to do that you'd get a friendly think tank to write it up in a report and then make favourable noises about the report's recommendations. Well, one would. Otherwise this happens: LemonDrizzle posted:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763953/Ed-Miliband-makes-election-pledge-raise-minimum-wage-8-hour-adding-3-000-pay-packets.html and one then loses rather than gains from making expensive promises, because whilst nobody understands price-setting and inflation, everyone understands the possibility of being too expensive to hire, and nobody believes that inter-industry substitution actually happens despite it happening all the time. You can't say "oh it's okay because we'll spur employment in this other industry" and be taken seriously.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:12
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sebzilla posted:I'm becoming a father in February so let it be known that I HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS (I don't like it one bit.) Have you told your partner that you don't want to be a father?
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Sep 22, 2014 14:36
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Fatty posted:Have you told your partner that you don't want to be a father?  On another note, anyone watching Ed Balls speech on the Labour budget?
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Sep 22, 2014 15:13
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Freezing child benefit? Labour are indefensible
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Sep 22, 2014 15:21
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Pesmerga posted:On another note, anyone watching Ed Balls speech on the Labour budget?
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Sep 22, 2014 15:22
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twoot posted:"VOTE LABOUR AND STANDARD LIFE WILL LEAVE THE loving PLANET" Does Standard Life do anything outside of threaten to leave things?
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Sep 22, 2014 16:05
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29305840quote:Former Prime Minister Tony Blair has said that sending in combat troops to fight Islamic State militants on the ground should not be ruled out. Why won't he just gently caress off forever? He just can't help himself Answers Me fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 18:01
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Answers Me posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29305840 Because he has not yet drunk the blood of every single person in Iraq, nor bathed in the entrails of every Afghan.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:04
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Answers Me posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29305840 Because he may be right about this, bombing random convoys and supply depots isn't going to end IS just frustrate them temporarily and is really nothing more than a money spinner for the arms manufacturers because it is basically whackamole. There would be little point in on the ground unless we commit to doing it properly, including going after their financial backers and there's probably bugger all chance of that happening. Unlike the Iraq war, there are actually decent reasons for committing ground forces to fight IS, the humanitarian crisis that they are causing (and Assad too) is heart breaking and Turkey cannot continue to take in the numbers of refugees that's it is currently facing.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:21
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Now I'm home, I've had a chance to follow Ed Balls' speech. And honestly, it's pretty much indistinguishable from when the Conservatives are doing their serious face 'cuts are necessary, but remember, this is compassionate conservatism'. The differences at this point between Labour and Conservatives, particularly when the Conservatives are pushing through socially progressive policies such as equal marriage, are non-existent. They are the same party, with a different face.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:44
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I don't mind the greens proposing £10 min. wage by 2020, but it would be jucier if it was by 2015 instead. Come on greens, what do you have to lose?
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Sep 22, 2014 20:55
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