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WampaLord posted:Three things: 1. So what you're saying is you're not accusing me of being a misogynist, you're just saying my views are misogynist! ...What's the difference? 2. You do know that just because something is the best overall, it can't have individual faults? I honestly think you might just be trolling me with sarcasm at the whole 'objectively best written and acted' thing. And I made a bunch of huge posts earlier in the thread breaking down what, about Skyler's character, didn't work for me. But then they got derailed into the whole 'that's a lot of words to say YOU HATE WOMEN' deal. So check those out if you think you can stand the misogyny. 3. So you're saying that hey, I may not think I'm sexist, but that's just because everyone in the world (and in this specific instance, me) is SO sexist in such a deep rooted way, that we're even sexist when we aren't being sexist? Again, I refer to my point earlier in asking what the gently caress I'm supposed to say to that. I can say that you're secretly arguing against me so bad because you're racist, and that anything you say against that is wrong because racism is SO ingrained in our culture that you don't even know you're being racist. Would that be a fair argument?
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Nov 13, 2013 22:39
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PootieTang posted:And I made a bunch of huge posts earlier in the thread breaking down what, about Skyler's character, didn't work for me. But then they got derailed into the whole 'that's a lot of words to say YOU HATE WOMEN' deal. So check those out if you think you can stand the misogyny. Thanks, I'll do that! PootieTang posted:Hell, maybe it's just the actors. Skylar's actor to be honest seems pretty terrible (although that might not be her fault, it may be the writing). She seems to have a really, really scowl-y confrontational looking default face, even when she's doing scenes where she's being tender or loving or any of that sappy stuff. She just looks like she hates everything around her, I think Stepford smiler is the term for that right? The whole 'I'm only pretending not to be totally frustratingly disgusted with everything right now' face? It's this. This is the misogyny. Right here. You are loving projecting this poo poo onto Skyler's character, her expression is perfectly normal for whatever scene she's in. The fact that she has a confrontational face a lot is because a lot of her scenes are her confronting Walt. Why is that a logical reason to hate a character? She looks like she hates everything around her? No poo poo, her life is hosed.
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Nov 13, 2013 22:46
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Give it up, WampaLord. You fought the good fight, but Skylor was "poorly-written and acted" 
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Nov 13, 2013 22:52
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WampaLord posted:Thanks, I'll do that! Specifically, in scenes where she isn't confronting Walt. And even in scenes BEFORE any of the Walt stuff even started happening (I.e when she thought he just had cancer, or when she thought he was having an affair) And really, are you going to just say 'No her face isn't scowly, it's NORMAL dammit!' because this might tie in to the whole 'objectively' thing you were going on about, since a lot of the stuff in art is subjective and not quantifiable. This means that people can have different impressions or different views, unless you have some amazing facial expression analyzer that maps the contours of the face to a scientifically established metric to measure scowly-ness? BUT I guess saying anything negative about Skyler IS just misogynist, I mean that's what you're saying right? I don't like something about her ergo it's misogyny? But do tell where in that post I made any comments about women in general, or about gender, or anything even close to that. None of my judgement are made based on or around Skyler's gender, all of them are individual comments that would be the same on any male character as they would on any female. I just really want to know where the whole misogyny thing is coming from, other than you just shouting THIS IS THE MISOGYNY when I said that her acting was off to me?
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Nov 13, 2013 22:53
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There's a Skyler line that I don't think gets nearly enough love, and that's in Season 4 when she's prepping with Walt about how they're going to tell Hank the gambling lie and she says, completely deadpan, "We have to get their sympathy right off the bat. It's important we make them understand why you would do something so stupid." And I loving loved that, because Walt is stupid. He chose making meth over accepting help and he was stupid enough to think he could hide the truth from his wife.
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Nov 13, 2013 22:57
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PootieTang posted:And yeah I'll admit my argument goes all over the place, but that's because there really isn't one scene or one action that I can point to and see 'this is why she is a badly written character'. Skyler isn't bad because of one factor or one action, it's an amalgamation of a dozen little things that are just off that turn her into the perfect storm. I'd argue this is why people who aren't as into debating the little bits and having full blown discussions about stuff like this write her off as 'a bitch' rather than anything else. Something they can't put their finger on puts them off, a lot. And her terrible 'fans' aren't a reason to dislike her character, the writing and acting are. look at this guy and his clueless misogyny
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Nov 13, 2013 23:03
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PootieTang posted:BUT I guess saying anything negative about Skyler IS just misogynist, I mean that's what you're saying right? I don't like something about her ergo it's misogyny? Yup, you've nailed my argument. Anyone who says anything negative about Skyler is a loving bigot sexist female-mutilation sponsoring shitlord. I give up. In some of your earlier posts you mention how you're bitter and fine with it. Have fun staying that way, I guess. Last Chance posted:Give it up, WampaLord. You fought the good fight, but Skylor was "poorly-written and acted" Thanks for the support. (No sarcasm intended) E: VVV Yea, honestly, that's what that part read as to me. It's fine, dude, plenty of people today still have sexist tendencies, you don't have to act like I called you a loving KKK clansmen. You could instead take this opportunity to examine how pervasive sexism is in our society. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 23:04
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WampaLord posted:Yup, you've nailed my argument. Anyone who says anything negative about Skyler is a loving bigot sexist female-mutilation sponsoring shitlord. WampaLord posted:
You can roll your eyes all you want, but that is all you did. You just said 'NO YOUR OPINION IS WRONG AND THAT IS MISOGYNY.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:07
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Tell us more about why you hate Skyler because of her 'vibe' or bitchy resting face or whatever horrible poo poo you think justifies your irrational and obsessive hatred of an imaginary person on the television.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:10
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The Job Creators posted:Tell us more about why you hate Skyler because of her 'vibe' or bitchy resting face or whatever horrible poo poo you think justifies your irrational and obsessive hatred of an imaginary person on the television. See this is the thing that annoys me, how many times do I have to say that I don't actually hate Skyler? How many times do I have to keep asking people not to quote me but then throw the word 'bitch' in there to make me seem like more a strawman misogynist? Or how many times I have to say that I don't hate Skyler as a person, but her use and presentation as a character? Are these all things that are really so hard to understand? But I guess people aren't capable of having a discussion about Skyler without everyone jumping onto the misogyny band-wagon as a catch all for shutting down people who disagree with you. I mean who needs actual arguments when you can just accuse the other person of sexism?
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Nov 13, 2013 23:14
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PootieTang posted:See this is the thing that annoys me, how many times do I have to say that I don't actually hate Skyler? How many times do I have to keep asking people not to quote me but then throw the word 'bitch' in there to make me seem like more a strawman misogynist? Or how many times I have to say that I don't hate Skyler as a person, but her use and presentation as a character? Are these all things that are really so hard to understand? PootieTang posted:Hell, maybe it's just the actors. Skylar's actor to be honest seems pretty terrible (although that might not be her fault, it may be the writing). She seems to have a really, really scowl-y confrontational looking default face, even when she's doing scenes where she's being tender or loving or any of that sappy stuff. She just looks like she hates everything around her, I think Stepford smiler is the term for that right? The whole 'I'm only pretending not to be totally frustratingly disgusted with everything right now' face? Accusing someone of bitchy resting face is pretty offensive bro.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:20
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WampaLord posted:I am not accusing you of being a misogynist. I'm sure you are a decent human being to all the women in your life. WampaLord posted:PootieTang, I don't think you're a bad person or anything, I just think you're naive to how rampant subtle misogyny is in our culture. I went out of my way to clarify that I am in no way calling you, PootieTang, a sexist and yet you still got super loving defensive about it.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:20
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This discussion has been extremely enlightening. It's forced me to face my underlying misogyny and admit that when I dislike a fictional character written specifically to be antagonistic, it's just because I can't loving stand women. All thanks to Skyler sneering her way through 62 episodes. 
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Nov 13, 2013 23:24
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How many people got upset about Walt's bitchy resting face? No people, because it is a criticism exclusively reserved for women.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:26
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WampaLord posted:I went out of my way to clarify that I am in no way calling you, PootieTang, a sexist and yet you still got super loving defensive about it. I understand you're not trying to offend me, but that doesn't mean you're not doing it (think of it as how you think I'm being sexist without actively trying to be) Especially when you say poo poo like WampaLord posted:It's fine, dude, plenty of people today still have sexist tendencies, you don't have to act like I called you a loving KKK clansmen. You could instead take this opportunity to examine how pervasive sexism is in our society. It's pretty condescending to be told 'You're not a raging misogynist, you just have deep-rooted misogynist tendencies, you should use this opportunity to exam how deep rooted your sexism is and try to come to terms with it, instead of disagreeing with me about Skylers character' I mean if I walk up to a guy and say 'I'm not saying you're in the KKK, but you are racist deep down' it's still pretty offensive. You just dismiss everything I argue out of hand and attribute it all to misogyny which as I've asked many times, how am I supposed to respond to that? Fine, you don't think Skylers actor is bad, fine you don't think she looks confrontational even in scenes that are totally absent of all threat, danger or even aggravation. You can do that without also throwing in the misogyny claim, since again none of anything I said has to do with gender, sex, or anything even related, and claiming it does just means you have a loving free insult to throw around that I can't even defend against because I can't prove the negative and somehow prove I'm not a misogynist. The Job Creators posted:Accusing someone of bitchy resting face is pretty offensive bro. Do I have to explain again why throwing the word 'bitch' into everything I say is a cheap, underhanded way of misquoting me to make everything I say seem gendered? Are you really so thick that you can't understand that throwing words like 'bitch, friend of the family, dyke' and poo poo into someones quotes is underhanded and just makes you look pathetic? I mean look, I can do it it too: The Job Creators posted:Tell us more about why you hate Skyler because of her 'vibe' or bitchy resting face or whatever horrible poo poo you think justifies your irrational and obsessive hatred of an imaginary person on the television you friend of the family. I guess this means I win the argument right? PootieTang fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 23:28
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I'm not too late for the skyler face chat am I? I spent way too much time working on this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4iOZB1YWZU
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Nov 13, 2013 23:40
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PootieTang posted:I understand you're not trying to offend me, but that doesn't mean you're not doing it (think of it as how you think I'm being sexist without actively trying to be) I'm not verballing you, "bitchy resting face" is a thing, and you accused Skyler of having it, and it is offensive and sexist to do so. Here is an informative article which you may choose to read in a bid to help rectify the sexism which you remain so painfully unaware of.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:46
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We get it, we're horrible sexist bastards for not liking a goddamn imaginary person. You can climb the gently caress off of your horse, your point has been made. Can we talk about something interesting now instead of rehashing the same conversation from 2008? 
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Nov 13, 2013 23:51
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The Job Creators posted:I'm not verballing you, "bitchy resting face" is a thing, and you accused Skyler of having it, and it is offensive and sexist to do so. Here is an informative article which you may choose to read in a bid to help rectify the sexism which you remain so painfully unaware of you dirty jigaboo. So there is an unrelated thing called 'bitchy resting face' that wasn't a part of this discussion at all, and you chose to claim that I was saying that Skyler had that, rather than that I found her acting and performance totally off? Also from what I understand of that article, it definitely isn't what I was referring to when I talked bout her performance. I've seen Anna Gunn in out-takes/interviews and she does not have that expression that Skyler has during the show. It definitely seems to be a product of her acting than just saying she has some kind of 'bitchy face' or that women in general can have a 'bitch face' which again, is just you throwing in some unrelated sexist thing and then accusing me of supporting/perpetuating it. And just because 'bitchy resting face' is a thing, doesn't mean that you can attribute it to my argument or again try to distort what I'm actually saying to make it look like something that's offensive or sexist so that you can argue against that strawman instead.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:52
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PootieTang posted:So there is an unrelated thing called 'bitchy resting face' that wasn't a part of this discussion at all, and you chose to claim that I was saying that Skyler had that, rather than that I found her acting and performance totally off? I'm the one who said she had bitchface, he's not paying attention and just  'ing without actually reading what anybody is saying.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:54
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PootieTang posted:She seems to have a really, really scowl-y confrontational looking default face
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Nov 13, 2013 23:56
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The Job Creators posted:I hate black people Do you not understand how that is different from saying she has a 'bitch face'? Because one is pulling an off-putting, and pretty clearly unnatural facial expression during an acting performance when (in the scenes where she is not pissed off or angry) one is not supposed to look miffed, and the other is claiming that women can have a naturally bitchy face that can only be fixed by plastic surgery. Do you see the difference?
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Nov 13, 2013 23:59
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WampaLord posted:I feel this is essentially a false claim. Breaking Bad is objectively once of the best written and best acted television shows in history, why would one of it's main characters be badly written and poorly acted? Please explain why you feel she is badly written and poorly acted. Do you think there were any actors on the show who was poorly written or acted? That can go for semi-regulars as well of course.
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Nov 14, 2013 00:40
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monster on a stick posted:Do you think there were any actors on the show who was poorly written or acted? That can go for semi-regulars as well of course. 
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Nov 14, 2013 00:47
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Redundant posted:The Cousins. D-Does this mean I'm racist? No, your hatred of them just has roots in racism. Completely different. 
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Nov 14, 2013 00:52
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monster on a stick posted:Do you think there were any actors on the show who was poorly written or acted? That can go for semi-regulars as well of course. Honestly, no. Isn't that one of the reasons everyone loves the show so much, the top-notch acting and writing? poo poo, I even thought the extras were amazing, like that waiter in the Tex-Mex place they go to. I realize my whole "one of the objectively best" comment may raise some hackles because art is subjective. Maybe it's wrong to claim a show is objectively good, but as a consumer of a lot of media, Breaking Bad honestly seems downright better than 99% of the poo poo out there. Maybe there's no place to talk objectively about art, anyone can claim "Well, I think Breaking Bad is a terrible show" and they're entitled to their opinion. But at the end of the day, don't we all essentially know what "good" TV is? I doubt anyone in this thread would claim Dexter is better than Breaking Bad, but there are plenty of people with that opinion. Are they wrong? I want to say yes, but I guess I can't talk about art objectively. monster on a stick posted:No, your hatred of them just has roots in racism. Completely different. Oh okay, I'm glad I wasted a decent reply on a trollbait question. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 00:54
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WampaLord posted:Honestly, no. Isn't that one of the reasons everyone loves the show so much, the top-notch acting and writing? Even people who love the show - I do - think the show has occasional missteps. You yourself said that you didn't feel like it felt in-character for Skyler to suggest a hit on Jesse in your first post in this thread. No show is going to be perfect. Making a blanket statement that because it's one of the most critically acclaimed shows, it ergo must be perfect and any rejection of that must have roots in sexism/racism/etc. is absurd. I also think it hurts the discussion in this thread, and I will give you examples: I have a female friend of mine who considers herself a feminist, and she's not a big Skyler fan. I'm not certain if that is because of the character or because of Gunn's performance (I suspect the latter), but I dreaded even mentioning this because my friend would just be considered an Uncle Tom. There's one example I can give where I thought Gunn seriously dropped the ball during a critical moment of the series, but I do not want to be accused of sexism so I did not bring it up. That does not improve the quality of the thread, and only detracts from it.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:10
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monster on a stick posted:Even people who love the show - I do - think the show has occasional missteps. You yourself said that you didn't feel like it felt in-character for Skyler to suggest a hit on Jesse in your first post in this thread. No show is going to be perfect. That's a lot of words to say 'I hate women'. Maybe if you want to have 'discussion' so bad you should go do it on a mens rights forums you woman hater, and take your uncle tom friend with you!
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Nov 14, 2013 01:20
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monster on a stick posted:Even people who love the show - I do - think the show has occasional missteps. You yourself said that you didn't feel like it felt in-character for Skyler to suggest a hit on Jesse in your first post in this thread. No show is going to be perfect. You guys act like if you say "Skyler is a boring character because most of her scenes don't involve explosions" I'll yell "SEXIST!" There's a shitload of perfectly valid ways to criticize Skyler (as you pointed out, I even criticized her with my first post), but all the people who boil it down to some nebulous "vibe" or "her scowly face" come across as misogynistic. Why doesn't Walt get poo poo for scowling all the time or for having a bad "vibe"? How come there aren't "I hate Lydia" Facebook pages? Why do people hate the non-murdering spouse? A significant chunk of the hatred for Skyler appears to be (and this is the problem, there's no way to objectively prove this to any degree of satisfaction) grounded in sexism. I don't give a gently caress if you criticize Skyler. loving post whatever, that's your right. If it seems sexist, it's my right to call it out, but you're correct in that leads to poor discussion, which is why I tried to stop doing this but you all keep misinterpreting me and it's frustrating to have to disassemble all these strawman arguments being thrown at me. PootieTang posted:That's a lot of words to say 'I hate women'. Maybe if you want to have 'discussion' so bad you should go do it on a mens rights forums you woman hater, and take your uncle tom friend with you! Like this. If I promise to never bring up Skyler again, can we stop this poo poo?
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Nov 14, 2013 01:21
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WampaLord posted:You guys act like if you say "Skyler is a boring character because most of her scenes don't involve explosions" I'll yell "SEXIST!" There's a shitload of perfectly valid ways to criticize Skyler (as you pointed out, I even criticized her with my first post), but all the people who boil it down to some nebulous "vibe" or "her scowly face" come across as misogynistic. A few comments: First, people do hate Walter White for a lot of reasons and I'm not sure what thread you are on if you think otherwise. Second, people who hate Skyler but like Lydia cannot be sexist because Lydia is arguably the stronger female character since she is directly involved as a major player in the meth industry and as a high-ranking executive for Madrigal, not to mention ordering hits including one on Mike. And judging from the reaction when she was poisoned, she wasn't too popular.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:41
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monster on a stick posted:First, people do hate Walter White for a lot of reasons and I'm not sure what thread you are on if you think otherwise. Of course they do, you're supposed to hate Walter White, he's a loving meth cook/murderer/child poisoner and is literally the antagonist of the show by the end. But I never read a comment of "I hate Walt, but I don't really know why. Maybe it's because Bryan Cranston constantly looks like he's scowling."
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Nov 14, 2013 01:51
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I hated Skylar because I was supposed to hate her up until I wasn't. She progresses from the kill joy to the obstacle to the victim to the accomplice. She didn't come out of it clean she was won over by the money and towards the end Marie was right Skylar thought Walt was going to get away with it and she'd get to keep the money. Walt becomes toxic to those around him and she demonstrates that best.
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Nov 14, 2013 02:04
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WampaLord posted:Of course they do, you're supposed to hate Walter White, he's a loving meth cook/murderer/child poisoner and is literally the antagonist of the show by the end. But I never read a comment of "I hate Walt, but I don't really know why. Maybe it's because Bryan Cranston constantly looks like he's scowling." Which is one reason why I think it has to do with Gunn's acting, and not Skyler as a character.
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Nov 14, 2013 02:04
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I think a lot of the post-Sopranos style of prestige-TV anti-hero dramas retains certain formulaic elements that tend towards a kind of tacit misogyny. One of those elements is that if the anti-hero is supposed to be juggling a normal family life and a zesty life of ill-doing, there has to be somebody who can't find out-- and one of the easiest ways to wring out dramatic tension is to play with that person finding out. Often they even do find out and are, reasonably, pissed about it. Skyler, Betty White, Margaret Schroeder, etc. I often wonder how this problem can be dealt with within the grammar of the anti-hero family man kind of plot. Because of course it's thrilling to watch somebody get away with something, and it's easy to root for somebody, even if just on a visceral and unconscious level, when they're up against tough odds. But it is very problematic that the way these shows work often puts us as viewers in the position of rooting for somebody to succeed at lying to, endangering, or betraying their spouse. And it's very, very problematic that online discourse tends towards framing these characters, most often women, with resentment for holding the bad-rear end main character back from doing whatever he's doing. Even though I think the three particular characters that I mentioned are fairly interesting and complicated (Skyler especially), I think it's a serious structural problem that few shows within these kind of genre have figured out how to deal with. I mean, I'm not saying that someone who doesn't like Skyler is a violent misogynist, and i'm not saying Vince Gilligan or anybody else on the writing or production staff is either. But Breaking Bad, like any other show, is made by and produced for people completely immersed in a culture that is, among other things, still egregiously sexist. Pointing out these structural issues isn't to say that BB is a lovely or compromised show-- I don't think it is-- or that people who dislike Skyler or Betty or Jan Levinsen or whoever are lovely or compromised people. They probably aren't. But we should be able to talk about these issues and acknowledge them frankly, because they're definitely there. Side note: Although it isn't a perfect show, I really like how "The Americans" inverts this dynamic a bit-- both partners are sharing the same secret, and if anything Kerri Russell's character is the more transgressive and gung-ho figure. This also lets it flex its muscles a little in finding things for the kids to do-- a lot of these shows tend to reduce the kids to more or less just props. Not even Walt Jr. is really great in regards to having stuff to do in the plot-as-such, although at least the writers give him nice character beats and really work on defining his relationship within the White/Schrader family. Edit: I mean the post above about liking Lydia more than Skyler is a great example. Because it's very common for fans to give much more leeway to woman characters who aren't "domestic." Peggy and Joan are very, very popular in a way that Betty has never been. Brienne of Tarth is very well-liked whereas the whole internet seems to loving hate Caitlyn. Liking Arya more than Sansa because she kills people instead of sitting in a castle is in no ways a "get out of sexist ideology free" card. But neither is it really that unusual or unexpected. Of course people are going to be more interested in characters who aren't tied to one setting, who can go out and do stuff and get into scrapes. That's fine! But it's still tied in with deep problems with our expectations of gender roles that are played out in almost any show or movie or whatever that you might encounter. And maybe we can start to ask why it's so uncommon for women to be shown in those active roles, and why, when they do, it's within such a narrow set of character types. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 02:13
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Archyduke posted:good post Part of me thinks that the reason why Don Draper and Walter White are so compelling is because honestly, that may be all the show can muster. Don't get me wrong, they are interesting characters in interesting worlds, but the focus is undeniably on how to portray a compelling antihero. This focus often ignores and puts to the wayside characters like Betty and Skyler who are used like tools to keep the drama around the antiheros meaningful. passionate dongs fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 02:47
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I feel like if I had Archyduke's gift for words, we might have been able to avoid this whole debate. loving well said.
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Nov 14, 2013 02:51
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I was about to post about Sons of Anarchy has some great female characters, maybe even better than BB, but then I got to the part where the hero slams a woman's face into a table, calls her a whore, then spits on her. I think that these 'badass male antihero' show do have a bunch of fans who watch them for vicarious kicks. Hell Walt is an MRA hero.SpiderHyphenMan posted:I really wish people had pitched Breaking Bad to me as a black comedy instead of as a dark and gritty examination of man's soul. I mean, it's both those things, but if I had heard more about how loving funny the show could be, I think I would have checked it out while it was still airing. There's some AV Club interview where Vince talked about how barely anyone watched Millenum because it was way too dark, so he He's always been a funny guy though. He wrote those great X-Files episodes where Mulder switched bodies with the guy at Area 51. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 05:15
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Count Chocula posted:I was about to post about Sons of Anarchy has some great female characters, maybe even better than BB, but then I got to the part where the hero slams a woman's face into a table, calls her a whore, then spits on her. I think that these 'badass male antihero' show do have a bunch of fans who watch them for vicarious kicks. Hell Walt is an MRA hero.
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Nov 14, 2013 05:34
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Look: 1) Skyler wasn't a homemaker. We know for a fact that she worked with Ted for at least two years, most likely more. Her staying at home is a function of her having had an inappropriate with him. We don't know the degree of that relationship, but we know it happened and it resulted in her leaving the job (presumably to save her marriage). The inappropriate relationship also creates a tension with Walt not wanting her to get the job. Did he not want her to get a job or did he not want her to get that job? Given Walt's egomania, the former is a position that can be supported but dramatically the latter works a great deal better. And I don't disrespect homemakers. Staying home to take care of your child with disabilities is admirable, but that isn't what Skyler did. Her role as homemaker is pretty minor (see 3) and Junior is in High School, when he is least in need of additional care. Especially considering their financial situation. Being a homemaker is, unfortunately, a luxury. It is also a luxury the Whites could clearly not afford. 2) Skyler would use "characters" as an excuse to gossip. She did that not only with Walt's marijuana use but also with his sexual performance. Given how utterly transparent those were and how quickly Marie caught on, it is not unreasonable to think that this kind of "covering her tracks" is normal for Skyler. 3) Sure, it's anecdotal, but I've had several (n=4) friends who work in self-publishing and their impression of the "bored housewife" demographic is universally damning. I'm not an ethnographer but given that they have n>200, I'll take the meta-analysis. Plus, and this goes back to point 1, clearly she had the time to indulge in things like writing when her family was having difficulty paying the bills. All that on top of her very much exemplifying the "shrew" archetype on our first impression of her, with the veggie bacon, the handjob, the nagging (some of which may seem innocuous since she was using it as a cover, but in order for a cover to work it has to be normal behavior). Sure, the character develops some but since the only agency she is afforded on the show is to react to Walt, it is very easy to perceive her as staying at the same level while we see Walt get worse. Only Walt getting worse remains awesome, whereas Skyler then only serves as a foil to his awesomeness. That eventually leads to Skyler being a pathetic character and we feel sympathy for her, but I already spoke about how that goes.
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Nov 14, 2013 07:49
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I wonder how different the show would have been if we never met Elliot/Gretchen and Walt/Skyler had a trusting enough relationship that he'd tell her what he'd gotten himself into early on. There should be more shows about functional relationships dealing with exterior problems.
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Nov 14, 2013 08:08
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