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Endie posted:The problem with being in the CFC or Imperium or whatever is that it is exceptionally easy for leaders of corps or alliances to lean back, perhaps focus on the money side of things and to stop pushing through new talent for FCing in particular. Why be in chat channels every day pushing people into fleets with young FCs, let alone get into those fleets yourself day in day out, if you have laz, vily or vee around (until, one day, you don't)? Init kept deploying to Syndicate and Curse, and developed deployment caches in both locations, precisely so they would retain the ability to Keeping combat-functional smaller entities in the CFC/Imperium seems to be one of the major internal conflicts. These organizations raise pilot activity, teach useful skills for combat like scouting, tackling, logi anchoring, and such, and keep pilots active, which, overall, are net positive effects. The issues arise when someone above the organization complains for whatever reason, correct or not, that its activity detracts from mainfleet numbers, creates conflicts by acting independently, or just misunderstand the organization entirely and orders it to do something that doesn't really make sense. I've mostly seen this on the SIG/Squad level, and while I wouldn't say it ever felt malicious, it felt like a whole lot of people managing poo poo they didn't understand. At the alliance level, it's interesting to see that EXE did well by maintaining its own independent deployments, where RZR was frequently given poo poo for doing the same thing, albeit poorly. I'm still glad, years later, that RZR is finally loving dead after they went and killed the game preserve that was IRC in Cobalt Edge. Compare this to INIT's deployments, which were successful, or idiocy like SMA jumping the gun a week early in provi, and I'm genuinely not sure if the issue was independent action as much as competent independent action. Also RIP EXE, you lot were actually fine. The EXE people I dealt with in GSF internal orgs were all at very least competent, if not pretty cool.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:46
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Endie posted:The problem with being in the CFC or Imperium or whatever is that it is exceptionally easy for leaders of corps or alliances to lean back, perhaps focus on the money side of things and to stop pushing through new talent for FCing in particular. Why be in chat channels every day pushing people into fleets with young FCs, let alone get into those fleets yourself day in day out, if you have laz, vily or vee around (until, one day, you don't)? Init kept deploying to Syndicate and Curse, and developed deployment caches in both locations, precisely so they would retain the ability to Sounds like GSF should absorb new entities entirely rather than giving them shelter and support and then finding them abandoning ship when good times are over.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:51
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I feel like we should have done more to help FCon instead of painting them with the same brush as Co2, ask me anything
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Jul 26, 2016 14:45
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Goatman Sacks posted:I feel like we should have done more to help FCon instead of painting them with the same brush as Co2, ask me anything Under Fozziesov and jump fatigue mechanics the Deep North where FCON and RAZOR lived was turbofucked the second anyone mounted anything like a serious challenge on our space. I completely get why they didn't want to move all their poo poo to Saranen but not doing so until it was way too late ended up costing them a shitload of supercaps and assets on their very own trail of tears. Roller Coast Guard fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 14:58
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Helicon One posted:Under Fozziesov and jump fatigue mechanics the Deep North where FCON and RAZOR lived was turbofucked the second anyone mounted anything like a serious challenge on our space. I completely get why they didn't want to move all their poo poo to Saranen but not doing so until it was way too late ended up costing them a shitload of supercaps and assets on their very own trail of tears. i almost wish i had parked a scout in UJY just to watch literal loving lemmings in nyxes waddle through thinking they were clever
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Jul 26, 2016 15:32
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4th Horseman posted:Sounds like GSF should absorb new entities entirely rather than giving them shelter and support and then finding them abandoning ship when good times are over. Little chance of that to happen, often the leadership of alliances wants to keep their leadership position.
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Jul 26, 2016 15:33
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Helicon One posted:Under Fozziesov and jump fatigue mechanics the Deep North where FCON and RAZOR lived was turbofucked the second anyone mounted anything like a serious challenge on our space. I completely get why they didn't want to move all their poo poo to Saranen but not doing so until it was way too late ended up costing them a shitload of supercaps and assets on their very own trail of tears. jump fatigue is pretty dumb imo and should maybe be changed
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Jul 26, 2016 15:40
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4th Horseman posted:Sounds like GSF should absorb new entities entirely rather than giving them shelter and support and then finding them abandoning ship when good times are over. With a very few exceptions, and those usually time-limited, member corps in GSF tend to be even worse than allies when it comes to leadership leaning back and coasting. The problem is general: if you have the anonymity of the crowd, and if someone else is prepared to do the work of developing talent, it is always very tempting just to just exist at that level of no-effort mild importance. You're far better actively encouraging allies to stay independent and putting effort into chivying them to do stuff alone to develop talent. That approach worked for us until about 2013, but it lapsed post-Fountain.
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Jul 26, 2016 15:42
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Landsknecht posted:I don't really understand NCDOTTE at all. I mean sometimes I see them on PL fleets, or they'll bring their own fleet to do something, but I just don't really see them having a presence? Endie posted:With a very few exceptions, and those usually time-limited, member corps in GSF tend to be even worse than allies when it comes to leadership leaning back and coasting. The problem is general: if you have the anonymity of the crowd, and if someone else is prepared to do the work of developing talent, it is always very tempting just to just exist at that level of no-effort mild importance. You're far better actively encouraging allies to stay independent and putting effort into chivying them to do stuff alone to develop talent. That approach worked for us until about 2013, but it lapsed post-Fountain. ncdot is the fcon of panfam
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Jul 26, 2016 15:46
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Glory of Arioch posted:i almost wish i had parked a scout in UJY just to watch literal loving lemmings in nyxes waddle through thinking they were clever Yeah, you could have streamed that poo poo on Twitch and spread the good joy.
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Jul 26, 2016 16:01
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Endie posted:With a very few exceptions, and those usually time-limited, member corps in GSF tend to be even worse than allies when it comes to leadership leaning back and coasting. The problem is general: if you have the anonymity of the crowd, and if someone else is prepared to do the work of developing talent, it is always very tempting just to just exist at that level of no-effort mild importance. You're far better actively encouraging allies to stay independent and putting effort into chivying them to do stuff alone to develop talent. That approach worked for us until about 2013, but it lapsed post-Fountain. If the alliance is made up of a bunch of separate group identities, and as a whole is winning, then sure everyone keeps together. Once poo poo starts to fall apart though, people in charge of their little sections start looking for an exit. If their line members are bound to them by separate corp identities etc, sig identity, hell time zone, they're more likely to leave when the leader of the identity leaves. Also pretty sure metrics don't let anyone in gsf have the anonymity of the crowd. Although I do recognize a whole bunch of fcs or space important people in a couple of corps.
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Jul 26, 2016 16:16
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Zephyrine posted:I'm sure this is all very accurate There was quite a contigent of GRRGOON in FCON, which probably made things fun for Tarkinius. Endie posted:You're far better actively encouraging allies to stay independent and putting effort into chivying them to do stuff alone to develop talent. That approach worked for us until about 2013, but it lapsed post-Fountain. Yeeah, this hasn't been a thing for quite a while now. We're rebuilding/improving our own military leadership because of the issues mo'chuisle highlighted a few posts ago. I don't want to get caught flat-footed again.
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Jul 26, 2016 16:16
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Wibla posted:There was quite a contigent of GRRGOON in FCON, which probably made things fun for Tarkinius. The moment you let your guard down I'm poaching Nektor 
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Jul 26, 2016 16:48
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Zephyrine posted:The moment you let your guard down I'm poaching Nektor Hah. 
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Jul 26, 2016 16:55
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Wibla posted:Hah. Hm you think Horde might be a tough sell?
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Jul 26, 2016 16:56
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Endie posted:With a very few exceptions, and those usually time-limited, member corps in GSF tend to be even worse than allies when it comes to leadership leaning back and coasting. The problem is general: if you have the anonymity of the crowd, and if someone else is prepared to do the work of developing talent, it is always very tempting just to just exist at that level of no-effort mild importance. You're far better actively encouraging allies to stay independent and putting effort into chivying them to do stuff alone to develop talent. That approach worked for us until about 2013, but it lapsed post-Fountain. it's a bad approach for the current direKKKtorate, because people might get their own ideas on how to do things if a corp likes to go on corp roams and do corp things, they might start questioning bluedonut and leave aka BAT
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Jul 26, 2016 16:56
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Zephyrine posted:Hm you think Horde might be a tough sell? idk what are pandemic hordes good qualities
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Jul 26, 2016 17:05
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4th Horseman posted:Also pretty sure metrics don't let anyone in gsf have the anonymity of the crowd. Although I do recognize a whole bunch of fcs or space important people in a couple of corps. In terms of bodies in fleet? Sure: a mediocre stability was semi-required on those. But that's not what I was talking about in what you quoted: I talked about "developing talent". In particular, FCs, although spies and scouts and logisticians also count. An alliance on its own desperately needs all of these, or else it won't have FCs to defend space or assets, those who do step up will be hard-countered, its coffers will run dry and its members be without ships; an alliance in a bloc can coast by on a reliance on alliance FCs, spies and scouts, while almost certainly still needing logisticians; a corp in GSF will be under no particular pressure to come up with any of them. Some corps do retain a culture of seeking-out or even developing talent, though. Amok and Sundering spring to mind.
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Jul 26, 2016 17:07
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Orange Red Bull posted:idk what are pandemic hordes good qualities Rats that are vulnerable to kinetic damage?
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Jul 26, 2016 17:09
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Zephyrine posted:Rats that are vulnerable to kinetic damage? 
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Jul 26, 2016 17:10
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I've always wanted to visit guri space to see how much easier it is in a vni than sansha... edit: but everyone will blow me up, so i need to find a wh to an empty part... FranktheBank fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 17:14
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FranktheBank posted:I've always wanted to visit guri space to see how much easier it is in a vni than sansha... the best part about guristas space was you could set up a ship (ishtar/vni) with a specific fit and put that thing in any haven/sanctum/whatever and know 100% that thing would be completed in 10-15 minutes and you wouldnt die no input or monitoring necessary unless you care about such things as local and roaming gangs
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Jul 26, 2016 17:21
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now it is left to darkness, co2, test, horde, oss and whatever those people are in branch/tenal to suckle at the sweet teat of the guristas and grow fat and decadent just like the goon
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Jul 26, 2016 17:27
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Orange Red Bull posted:now it is left to darkness, co2, test, horde, oss and whatever those people are in branch/tenal to suckle at the sweet teat of the guristas and grow fat and decadent just like the goon NCdot drops supers on our ratting carriers and then saves them with Titans when we tackle them so people better stick to VNIs for now.
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Jul 26, 2016 17:36
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Forcing ratters to not be comatose at their computers has been difficult to adjust to
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Jul 26, 2016 17:39
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Reverand maynard posted:I think lowsec voltron is a great entity to emulate in this: did their own fleets when possible, formed voltron when outclassed.
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Jul 26, 2016 17:47
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Deofuta posted:Forcing ratters to not be comatose at their computers has been difficult to adjust to I think some beans were surprisingly quick to break out the ratting carriers. It's like some lingering spirits of Thetans haunt the region and possess them.
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Jul 26, 2016 17:48
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Zephyrine posted:NCdot drops supers on our ratting carriers and then saves them with Titans when we tackle them so people better stick to VNIs for now. is horde even allowed to kill an ncdot super?
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Jul 26, 2016 17:51
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Orange Red Bull posted:is horde even allowed to kill an ncdot super? Yes but PL FCs/PL alts in horde aren't allowed to assist. Instead they sit on the fence biting their lips. I think they are allowed to tag it to get on the kill.
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Jul 26, 2016 17:54
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Orange Red Bull posted:is horde even allowed to kill an ncdot super? Allowed to? Sure! Doing so while being within jump range of ncdot staging? Good Luck Zephyrine posted:I think some beans were surprisingly quick to break out the ratting carriers. It's like some lingering spirits of Thetans haunt the region and possess them. I mean, its inevitable as we sit in null, they aren't too bad at it and thinking all horde members are new players is patently ignorant with our entrant requirements.
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Jul 26, 2016 17:56
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Deofuta posted:Allowed to? Sure! Doing so while being within jump range of ncdot staging? Good Luck  They might get an inkling they are being farmed
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Jul 26, 2016 18:10
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Helicon One posted:Under Fozziesov and jump fatigue mechanics the Deep North where FCON and RAZOR lived was turbofucked the second anyone mounted anything like a serious challenge on our space. I completely get why they didn't want to move all their poo poo to Saranen but not doing so until it was way too late ended up costing them a shitload of supercaps and assets on their very own trail of tears. FCON put up some heroic defenses up in Branch where they beat off the MBC on timers* by just piling insane amounts of people into systems early at a time when the rest of the imperium wasn't winning a single important timer anywhere anymore, usually coming with too little too late. Staying in Branch could have worked out for them if they had had enough smarts to a) start evacuating assets they didn't need for a defense up there early (which they might have done, idk) and b) watch their dumb super pilots and make sure that they didn't try to evacuate on the insanely stupid deklein route that required gate jumps into a region no one was gonna protect anyway and went for the longer, but perfectly safe venal route where every dangerous jump could be done via cyno into empty systems. We moved a few dozen supers into venal at the same exact time that FCON was losing theirs in Y-19. Considering how tenacious FCON where at jumping every single one of their supers through that loving gate I can only assume, too, that this was a "strategy" given by their leadership, most likely some sort of panicked "you have 48 hours to get out into deklein but please only jump when its safe" followed by a quick hiding in the closet. * without these wins, they would have lost even more CSAA etc. than they already did
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Jul 26, 2016 18:14
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p7hk9 posted:
has there been a 'stop being poo poo' post to horde from any ncdot tryhards yet?
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Jul 26, 2016 18:14
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Orange Red Bull posted:is horde even allowed to kill an ncdot super? Yes, with the thought process being "If you died to Horde, you deserved it."
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Jul 26, 2016 18:18
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Orange Red Bull posted:has there been a 'stop being poo poo' post to horde from any ncdot tryhards yet? Nothing yet, will keep thread updated on various possible drama outbreaks. Sadly we appear to be losing out to TEST if their 'leak' on reddit was anything to go by.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:18
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dreamin' posted:FCON put up some heroic defenses up in Branch where they beat off the MBC on timers* by just piling insane amounts of people into systems early at a time when the rest of the imperium wasn't winning a single important timer anywhere anymore, usually coming with too little too late. Yes, the last big timer "event" I remember us losing was when FCon piled an extremely respectable number of people onto the gate in their staging system in Branch (the day that VFK came out of reinforced as well) and a mixture of them and (mainly) some goons drag-bubbled us in heavy tidi all the way there. By the time we had won the gate fight the timer was saved. That was a real grind of an evening, despite the kills, and I don't know how sustainable it would have been if they'd been allowed to keep at it. Maybe only for a couple of weeks, but still something.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:33
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Since you are leaving guri space, is that region where you were gonna be empty for a little bit? If so, for how long? I might make an adventure and try to rat there....
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Jul 26, 2016 18:47
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FranktheBank posted:Since you are leaving guri space, is that region where you were gonna be empty for a little bit? it's probably fuller now that it's been in a while if you want to rat join a renter and do it afk in the deep drone regions
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Jul 26, 2016 18:54
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I already rat, I just want to try guri space.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:10
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Same thing, join a renter
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Jul 26, 2016 19:20
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