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Silegna posted:Hey, I actually ENJOYED BLitzball. Then again, I'm a bit of a masochist, so yeah. Yeah, Blitzball is the best thing to ever come out of FF
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Dec 12, 2013 02:24
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hectorgrey posted:Just the battle system. But then, it was something different, and change is always bad, right? The game itself was pretty well received, but I remember the complaints about the battle system. I get that it's supposed to be fake and forced, but the actual voice acting still kills it for me every time. Maybe it will be different when I play the remaster in a couple months. waah posted:I haven't played through FFX since it came out. I am really looking forward to the vita HD version so I can replay it. I don't know I am outing myself as just a terrible player, but I remember the lady yunalesca fight and the seymor fight on my gagazet to be brutal. Also I want to hate myself and try the dark Aeon fights that Elentor spoke glowingly about. The worst part about that Yunalesca fight was having to sit through the cutscene every single goddamn time. How did they not figure out skipping cutscenes until Kingdom Hearts II? morallyobjected fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 03:17
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I haven't played through FFX since it came out. I am really looking forward to the vita HD version so I can replay it. I don't know I am outing myself as just a terrible player, but I remember the lady yunalesca fight and the seymor fight on my gagazet to be brutal. Also I want to hate myself and try the dark Aeon fights that Elentor spoke glowingly about.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:28
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Silegna posted:Hey, I actually ENJOYED BLitzball. Then again, I'm a bit of a masochist, so yeah. I enjoy Tales games on the highest difficulty. I HATED Blitzball.
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Dec 12, 2013 04:03
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Waffleman_ posted:Edit: Also people not understanding that the laughing is supposed to be forced and fake, that's the point of the scene. If it was their intention for it to be awkward and uncomfortable to watch, they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:31
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Blitzball was basically a hockey/soccer kind of kind game with some randomization and poo poo but where you had a guy who could just say HAHAHAHAHAHAHA gently caress YOU I SCORE.
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Dec 12, 2013 07:15
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We've already had the blitzball discussion 3 times or so in this thread. Stop it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 12, 2013 08:12
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BioMe posted:Off the top of my head the last couple Shadow Hearts games loaned a lot from FFX too. It's just Square suddenly deciding they now have to reinvent JRPGs with every new mainline FF. "Suddenly"? Like how they completely reinvented leveling up in FF2? Or invented the class-change job system in 3? Or made the most terse, story-driven game ever in 4? Or decided to add 14 playable characters, including hidden ones, in 6? Or made console games cinematic with 7? Or the graphics of 8? Dragon Warrior is the series that defines itself as being almost indistinguishable from game to game. FF is the series that is always, always revamping everything it can get away with.
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Dec 12, 2013 08:21
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MartianAgitator posted:"Suddenly"? Like how they completely reinvented leveling up in FF2? Or invented the class-change job system in 3? Or made the most terse, story-driven game ever in 4? Or decided to add 14 playable characters, including hidden ones, in 6? Or made console games cinematic with 7? Or the graphics of 8? I'm still shocked that they made a sequel to FFX and decided to use FF5's battle system. Sometimes a system comes back in later games, but it's never quite how you'd expect.
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Dec 12, 2013 10:06
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George posted:I'm still shocked that they made a sequel to FFX and decided to use FF5's battle system. Sometimes a system comes back in later games, but it's never quite how you'd expect. FFX-2's battle system has been the best one so far. Fast paced, interactive and versatile. ...Too bad about the rest of the game.
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Dec 12, 2013 10:57
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Ubiquitous_ posted:Aside from full 3D graphics, the only thing they loaned was the Turn Priority system which was the same as FFX's turn order. But you couldn't cancel or push back turns, like say Grandia. That's what I meant? You say it like the visible turn queue was a small part of FFX's gameplay. MartianAgitator posted:"Suddenly"? Like how they completely reinvented leveling up in FF2? Or invented the class-change job system in 3? Or made the most terse, story-driven game ever in 4? Or decided to add 14 playable characters, including hidden ones, in 6? Or made console games cinematic with 7? Or the graphics of 8? Not making carbon copies is not the same thing as reinventing. What you are listing is just natural development of old ideas (or just plain improvement of tech). But you are right about FF2, there have been really weird experimental stat/ability progression mechanics through out the series. I was talking about the battle engine itself, which has had more or less a natural evolution up until XII. Shame because X and X-2 actually had good battle systems they could have further improved on. They actually said "FF is going to be experimental from now on", which wouldn't be bad except they don't seem to have competent enough game designers to perfect an idea in just one game.
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Dec 12, 2013 13:21
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MythLisp posted:FFX-2's battle system has been the best one so far. Fast paced, interactive and versatile. So true, the game's battles and dungeons are so fun, and even though the weird j-pop and fan service ruins a lot of the game, I still love it. Oh but gently caress getting 100% I've have played the game through from start to finish with a guide in my lap doing EXACTLY what it says and still ended up with 99%.
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Dec 12, 2013 14:49
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Ubiquitous_ posted:Aside from full 3D graphics, the only thing they loaned was the Turn Priority system which was the same as FFX's turn order. But you couldn't cancel or push back turns, like say Grandia. If we're talking about Shadow Hearts not having cancel/push back turn moves, ignore this entire thing as I mistake it for being a comment on FFX not having it. If talking about FFX not having cancel/push back turns actions...what? There were actions you could use for that (Delay series, and Valefor had a move that could do that) and if you wanted to cancel/set back one of your own turns, there was a button press for that (believe it was triangle, don't quote me on that). Sure, it was just defending for a time, but relatively the same difference from what I recall (although the summons had a stronger version that you had to select manually). And since topic's derailed from FF7 to other FF games (again), I had been told recently to get the HD remakes because they basically relive the games with better graphics and stuff. And I had to admit, when it came to FFX on it's own, I have been tempted because, for what it lacked in sense towards the end-game (read: "gently caress you Seymour") it was overall a really well-designed game, and I actually did enjoy Blitzball to the point of personally rating it as one of the best minigames I ever played. Sadly, it comes with X-2...and there's probably no limits to my frustration towards that game that was basically a reference to everything cheezy and pathetic that I could ever think of. My friend does disagree with my point of view on the matter, but then I can't be expected to agree on everything.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:21
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TiamosLoren posted:If we're talking about Shadow Hearts not having cancel/push back turn moves, ignore this entire thing as I mistake it for being a comment on FFX not having it. That and X-2 has the most convoluted 100% requirement EVER. Forgot to talk to ONE NPC? Screw you! No 100% for you!
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Dec 12, 2013 19:10
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X-2's 100% is designed around NG+ and doing events differently across multiple playthroughs. It's very easy to get in that manner. The requirements for 100% in one single NG playthrough are, yes, super restrictive and unforgiving, but that's the tradeoff.
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Dec 12, 2013 19:13
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Believe it or not, I really, really liked FF X, even the plot. With all its stilted cutscenes and weird line deliveries. It's not even written badly - it's just very ham-fisted and a little silly in places. But the characters work well, and it's an emotionally very satisfying story. Really... The story seems to have heart! It's also why I don't mind the incredibly linear progression, since it fits very well to the central journey. (I'll still buy the HD remake ONLY, AND ONLY IF you can skip cutscenes. Seriously.) There is absolutely no excuse for X-2, though. It was only funny in how embarrassing it was, and it was never funny how it wanted to be. It's actually similar to X, I think - someone had a REALLY good concept for a story, with some very engaging basic ideas... And then shat all over the details. Only X wasn't so painfully obnoxious about it, still endearing in its hamminess, and could still rely on the sheer strength of the concepts (Sin is the best idea of the entire franchise, if you ask me).
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Dec 12, 2013 19:42
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TiamosLoren posted:If we're talking about Shadow Hearts not having cancel/push back turn moves, ignore this entire thing as I mistake it for being a comment on FFX not having it. I'm saying that of the things Shadow Hearts 2 and 3 borrowed from FFX, the ability to move an enemy's turns around was not one of them. The only thing it really loaned was the ability to see the turn order of allies and foes. You can do some minor swapping around when it came to combos and thus an enemy would go after your combo, but that would just result in the enemy sometimes getting two turns in a row or also making a combo itself. In other words, the only game that really borrowed totally wholesale from FFX was LOTR: The Third Age. The game didn't really make much of an impact otherwise (aside from forcing every game afterward to have high-def CGI cutscenes and voiced dialogue).
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Dec 12, 2013 20:18
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I liked FFX-2's story. I, too, did not know about this materia-chaining. Actually, I don't remember much about my playthroughs of this game. It's for the best, I suppose. It'll be fun to see how OFS gets through this whacky adventure. Anyway, has the game explained why we're stealing the Huge Materia, yet?
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Dec 13, 2013 04:47
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Because gently caress Shinra.
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Dec 13, 2013 05:34
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BlitzBlast posted:Because gently caress Shinra. Just to be clear, (s)he's not joking. That is really the reason. They're Shinra and we hate them, ergo whatever their plan is sucks and must be stopped so we can do a different thing which will be done by us, who we don't hate, and so will be better. I think they say it more heroically in game, though.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:34
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No, I think they just make a lot of train analogies until Barret is super pumped and then go do it.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:38
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I think Bugenhagen says something about their plan being bad but whatever, gently caress Shinra.
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Dec 13, 2013 16:35
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Nihilarian posted:I think Bugenhagen says something about their plan being bad but whatever, gently caress Shinra. Whereas we are a bunch of super-powered misfits with some tiny stones that can summon loving comots from the sky and can deal all of this in a MUCH less damaging fashion. We're the scalpel, ShinRa's the loving sawblade. Both get the job done but only one gives a certainty of living.
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Dec 13, 2013 16:48
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FinalGamer posted:Wasn't it something like how ShinRa are basically carving a wound deeper into the planet in order to protect the planet with whatever crazy scheme they have in mind? Be like destroying a city to save the world or something crazy. I'm pretty sure team Cloud doesn't actually have an alternative plan at this point though. In fact, unless I missed it, we're never given a good reason why Shinra's plan is bad in the first place. Chuu fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 17:09
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If I recall, they don't like the ShinRa plan because it involves Huge Material and there's a lotta Lifestream invested in those things and it'd be really harmful to the planet. They think. Maybe. They Really have no clue if using the Huge Material would actually be damaging or not, they're just doing it because gently caress Shinra.
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Dec 13, 2013 17:40
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To be fair, "gently caress Shinra" is a plan we can all get behind. They're kind of assholes.
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Dec 13, 2013 17:45
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On the other hand, it's not like Shinra's plan is all that good either - Fire huge materia in a rocket at this meteor. This will work because
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Dec 13, 2013 17:51
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Or is it Sputnik posted:On the other hand, it's not like Shinra's plan is all that good either - Fire huge materia in a rocket at this meteor. This will work because Well, think about all of the poo poo you can do when you just use the materia - what if you made it explode in a loving rocket! 
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Dec 13, 2013 17:54
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To be fair to the heroes, the plan makes no loving sense at all. Materia have never been shown to be volatile at all, and don't do anything directly themselves (if I recall, the in-universe explanation for how they work is that they impart the knowledge and skills of the Ancients, and you're the one actually doing the Fire and whatnot.) Given all this, throwing them at Meteor in a rocket makes no sense at all - there'd be no expected reaction at all.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:12
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Serifina posted:To be fair to the heroes, the plan makes no loving sense at all. Materia have never been shown to be volatile at all, and don't do anything directly themselves (if I recall, the in-universe explanation for how they work is that they impart the knowledge and skills of the Ancients, and you're the one actually doing the Fire and whatnot.) Given all this, throwing them at Meteor in a rocket makes no sense at all - there'd be no expected reaction at all. Materia is condensed Mako, which is the main source of energy on the planet. Maybe it's not volatile in it's natural state, but there's a ton of potential energy in there to be released.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:16
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revtoiletduck posted:Materia is condensed Mako, which is the main source of energy on the planet. Maybe it's not volatile in it's natural state, but there's a ton of potential energy in there to be released. Mako, yeah, but processed in different ways, I think. And there doesn't seem to be any thought in the plan beyond '1)Load rocket with materia! 2) fire rocket at Meteor! 3) ??? 4) Prof... Uh Victory!
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Dec 13, 2013 18:26
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I think you are maybe supposed to infer Shinra knows how to make materia explode.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:33
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BioMe posted:I think you are maybe supposed to infer Shinra knows how to make materia explode. That would imply some kind of competence.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:38
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BioMe posted:I think you are maybe supposed to infer Shinra knows how to make materia explode. Counterpoint: Heidegeer and Scarlet.  Another counterpoint: 
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Dec 13, 2013 18:39
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Or is it Sputnik posted:On the other hand, it's not like Shinra's plan is all that good either - Fire huge materia in a rocket at this meteor. This will work because It might work...  "We harvested all
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Dec 13, 2013 18:52
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You gotta feel sorry for the Shinra grunts and mid-rank officers, though. In their eyes, they're the ones actively fighting WEAPON and have come up with a plan to save the planet, but that drat terrorist cell that wrecked two Sectors of Midgar keep getting in their way, casually slaughtering the brave men who are fighting to protect their world and families. Clearly, they're nothing more than minions of Sephiroth!
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Dec 13, 2013 19:00
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This whole "why are we doing this again" issue has been hashed out before at least once. There are a ton of reasons the heroes COULD give (it's flawed science, or it's hurting the planet, etc), but they gives none at all, and just end up looking like petty assholes. Any justifications fans give are just made-up fan theories, especially ones based on the science behind MacGuffin soul rocks.
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Dec 13, 2013 19:28
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It would make a lot more sense if (I don't think this is a spoiler but better safe) Aeris told Cloud the plan wouldn't work while he was in the life stream. Of course you don't need Cloud back before you start stealing them so even that doesn't really make sense.
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Dec 13, 2013 19:41
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Brony Hunter posted:You gotta feel sorry for the Shinra grunts and mid-rank officers, though. In their eyes, they're the ones actively fighting WEAPON and have come up with a plan to save the planet, but that drat terrorist cell that wrecked two Sectors of Midgar keep getting in their way, casually slaughtering the brave men who are fighting to protect their world and families. Clearly, they're nothing more than minions of Sephiroth! The best part is that for the majority of the game, that last sentence is true, albeit inadvertent minions.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:17
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Or is it Sputnik posted:On the other hand, it's not like Shinra's plan is all that good either - Fire huge materia in a rocket at this meteor. This will work because NASA is studying using nukes to change the orbit of an object on a collision course with earth. There's a good paper on it here (pdf warning). To quote: NASA posted:In the impulsive category, the use of a nuclear device was found to be the most effective means to deflect a PHO. Because of the large amount of energy delivered, nuclear devices would require the least amount of detailed information about the threatening object, reducing the need for detailed characterization. While detonation of a nuclear device on or below the surface of a threatening object was found to be 10-100 times more efficient than detonating a nuclear device above the surface, the standoff detonation would be less likely to fragment the target. A nuclear standoff mission could be designed knowing only the orbit and approximate mass of the threat, and missions could be carried out incrementally to reach the required amount of deflection.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:59
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