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TheMightyBoops posted:In contrast Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure are almost exclusively set in a single town the entire runtime of each 60+ hour game and they rule.
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May 20, 2024 02:07
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It's not good for a town to have too much to see, do, and find, but it's good for the rhythm of a long quest to have safe places where you can trade in your riches for upgrades, acquire hints, and see a funny scenario about a pair of young lovers who are waiting for each other at the wrong location.
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May 20, 2024 02:08
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Clarste posted:I already said town-settings that are also dungeons are fine. The problem is the pacing: I don't want to stop for an hour to explore houses and talk to dumb NPCs. are there that many JRPGs where this is a thing youre forced to do made after like, 1995
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May 20, 2024 02:14
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Heck, even Trails which are big on their Towns and NPCs you can just not talk to 99% of them.
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May 20, 2024 02:15
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The 7th Guest posted:I didn’t like Azure as much as Zero but I agree, having a single big town was perfectly fine. Also made my “new plot happened, better talk to everyone again” compulsion much easier to satiate. Going into a sequel and knowing where everyone and everything is already is a cool feeling. In general I like Trails sequels because seeing everything you remember as being mostly normal in the first game being affected by changes in the sequel is a cool trick.
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May 20, 2024 02:15
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Endorph posted:are there that many JRPGs where this is a thing youre forced to do made after like, 1995 Dragon Quest XI put its largest, densest town very near to the beginning. Heliodor might give the wrong impression to some of what to expect from the rest of the game.
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May 20, 2024 02:19
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Dragon Quest XI gives you a (I think) purple exclamation point on your next story quest whenever you want to open the map. It never requires you to go into every house clearing all the NPC dialogue boxes.
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May 20, 2024 02:22
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I'm also struggling to think of many RPGs in the last 20 years where you're actually forced to speak to random unmarked NPCs more than like once in the entire game.
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May 20, 2024 02:28
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Kanos posted:I'm also struggling to think of many RPGs in the last 20 years where you're actually forced to speak to random unmarked NPCs more than like once in the entire game. P4
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May 20, 2024 02:29
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RareAcumen posted:Dragon Quest XI gives you a (I think) purple exclamation point on your next story quest whenever you want to open the map. It never requires you to go into every house clearing all the NPC dialogue boxes. If I remember most npc dialogue in DQ 11 is pretty good too. Like don’t read all of it, but a lot is charming and silly and npcs will reference npcs in other towns.
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May 20, 2024 02:29
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Heck, even Trails which are big on their Towns and NPCs you can just not talk to 99% of them.
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May 20, 2024 02:29
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I'm not sure where the idea of "forcing" the player to do it came from. Just the fact that they might have hints, items, or sidequests is enough to make me feel like I should talk to them all and search every trashcan or whatever. As for games made after 1995, I will say Final Fantasy 7 (original), Tales of the Abyss, and Honkai Star Rail. It doesn't seem any rarer than it ever was.
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May 20, 2024 02:33
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Clarste posted:I'm not sure where the idea of "forcing" the player to do it came from. Just the fact that they might have hints, items, or sidequests is enough to make me feel like I should talk to them all and search every trashcan or whatever. This is why I fell off octopath 2, path actions in town were exhausting.
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May 20, 2024 02:35
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Octopath Traveler is a great example of what I'm talking about, yes, although definitely worse than most. By making towns have so much stuff in them, I find them more exhausting than dungeon crawling. Which is the opposite of what people have been saying they're for.
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May 20, 2024 02:36
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Towns are simply a must for that living and lived-in feeling I like in RPG worlds That said I also love the path actions in Octopath 2 so I'm a sicko like that. You mean I get to run around pickpocketing all these NPCs and beating them up for random pieces of gear? Don't mind if I do! If an RPG doesn't want me to slow down and "waste my time" exploring there's little chance I'm going to care much about its world
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May 20, 2024 02:36
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Same. I used Inquire on everyone because I enjoyed the flavor text, too.
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May 20, 2024 02:37
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Harrow posted:If an RPG doesn't want me to slow down and "waste my time" exploring there's little chance I'm going to care much about its world I'm fine with exploring dungeons, I just hate towns in particular.
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May 20, 2024 02:38
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Oh yeah, the flavor text is excellent too! I especially like the one town where, if you Inquire/etc. everyone, you uncover that almost everyone is some kind or another of thief or scoundrel except for like one dude who thinks everyone's the nicest, most honest people aroundClarste posted:I'm fine with exploring dungeons, I just hate towns in particular. That's what I mean though. Give me towns and cities and overworld areas to explore or I'm gonna be disappointed. i can make an exception for games like Etrian Odyssey where the dungeon crawling is the game.
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May 20, 2024 02:39
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Clarste posted:I'm not sure where the idea of "forcing" the player to do it came from. Just the fact that they might have hints, items, or sidequests is enough to make me feel like I should talk to them all and search every trashcan or whatever. What if the secret side quests are for people who like reading npc dialogue?
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May 20, 2024 02:39
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Octopath simply makes towns into a different kind of dungeon with a whole parallel set of mechanics for interacting with them. And that's great.
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May 20, 2024 02:39
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You can have NPC dialog and sidequests in a dungeon. They just don't need to kill the pacing of the game, imo.
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May 20, 2024 02:40
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Clarste posted:You can have NPC dialog and sidequests in a dungeon. They just don't need to kill the pacing of the game, imo. Why would npcs want to live in a dungeon?
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May 20, 2024 02:41
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"Sometimes you have to slow down and explore and talk to people" does not equal "the pacing is ruined" and it makes me sad that that's becoming an increasingly popular opinion Similarly, "slow" is a valid type of pacing
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May 20, 2024 02:41
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I keep coming back to LAD but sidequests are often their own reward in those games.
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May 20, 2024 02:41
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I became a video games boomer so gradually I hardly noticed
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May 20, 2024 02:42
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TheMightyBoops posted:Why would npcs want to live in a dungeon? I dunno, try asking them and finding out! They'd probably have an interesting reason.
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May 20, 2024 02:42
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Runa posted:I keep coming back to LAD but sidequests are often their own reward in those games. In LAD, the towns are all dungeons. Because you get random encounters there.
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May 20, 2024 02:43
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TheMightyBoops posted:Why would npcs want to live in a dungeon? dungeon meshi
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May 20, 2024 02:44
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ffvii doesn't really have an obnoxious amount of npcs and they don't have layered dialog so i don't think it's that much of a problem to talk to them compared to a 2000s era tales game. which, abyss' problem isn't the npcs or towns, it's that abyss' sidequest design is strange
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May 20, 2024 02:44
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once you get to the tales games that actually start marking sidequests it's never really an issue again
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May 20, 2024 02:45
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I think that for a good game to be truly great, it needs to be at least a little bit bad. That's what gives a game character, and character is necessary for greatness.
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May 20, 2024 02:46
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Snooze Cruise posted:dungeon meshi Dungeon Meshi is actually a great example of how you can have interesting worldbuilding while barely ever leaving the setting of the dungeon itself (or talking to random townsfolk). You even hear a lot of about surface politics and cultural tensions just from interacting solely with adventurers in dungeons. It's also sort of a matter of "bigger isn't better." In Etrian Odyssey games there's like one town that you interact with entirely through like 5 different shopkeeper NPCs, and I think that's good enough, personally.
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May 20, 2024 02:47
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Endorph posted:yea the main story usually makes you talk to like, the major NPCs in the town but they usually have like portraits and stuff. youre never really made to go into random peoples houses
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May 20, 2024 02:48
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Clarste posted:Dungeon Meshi is actually a great example of how you can have interesting worldbuilding while barely ever leaving the setting of the dungeon itself (or talking to random townsfolk). You even hear a lot of about surface politics and cultural tensions just from interacting solely with adventurers in dungeons. Even classic dungeon crawlers have campsites or places to rest. Barricading the door so the wizard can nap is a kind of town.
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May 20, 2024 02:48
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Bongo Bill posted:Even classic dungeon crawlers have campsites or places to rest. Barricading the door so the wizard can nap is a kind of town. But you don't spend an hour raiding people's closets.
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May 20, 2024 02:49
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If you define town as "anywhere you stop fighting for 5 minutes" than I could agree that towns can be good, but that's not what towns usually are in RPGs.
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May 20, 2024 02:51
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Puzzle rooms are also not towns.
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May 20, 2024 02:51
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Clarste posted:But you don't spend an hour raiding people's closets. The dungeons in infinity engine games just feel like this lol.
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May 20, 2024 02:51
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Failboattootoot posted:This is why I fell off octopath 2, path actions in town were exhausting. Yea I like towns but Octopath (both of them) makes them stressful and I have no interest in trying to steal from every NPC I meet or whatever. Clarste posted:But you don't spend an hour raiding people's closets. This is all on you really. Always so baffled by people who steal everything that's not nailed down. What's the point?
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May 20, 2024 02:51
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TheMightyBoops posted:The dungeons in infinity engine games just feel like this lol. True, there are also games where you spend an hour in a dungeon picking up brooms, and those are also bad.
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May 20, 2024 02:53
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