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Judging by the number of white people in weird old timey clothes and Danish flags defaced with blue crosses that are currently all over Copenhagen, I'd say yes
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May 17, 2024 20:47
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:39 |
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BonHair posted:Wait, I forgot, isn't today the anniversary of Denmark losing our most valuable possession, Norway?
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May 17, 2024 22:23
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I maybe wrong, but from what I know Sweden wanted to make Norway part of Sweden, but Bernadotte opted rather to become king of Norway and make it a personal union. Similarly, earlier, the Swedish elites hoped that Bernadotte would be revanchist regarding Finland when Napoleon was about to invade Russia but surprising (disappointing) everyone he wasn't and became an opponent of Napoleon. Seems to me like he was a shrewd politician.
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May 18, 2024 16:52
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Anyone else notice that the person credited with the photo of the dreaded #Hamas rock, which had allegedly been left behind at Copenhagen University by pro-Palestinian student protesters, is the same exact self-described Zionist who now claims to feel threatened by the "antisemitic" slogan "Globalize the Intifada"? What a coincidence.
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May 18, 2024 23:11
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May 19, 2024 06:10
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He's right! Blacks do bule!
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May 19, 2024 08:40
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SplitSoul posted:Anyone else notice that the person credited with the photo of the dreaded #Hamas rock, which had allegedly been left behind at Copenhagen University by pro-Palestinian student protesters, is the same exact self-described Zionist who now claims to feel threatened by the "antisemitic" slogan "Globalize the Intifada"? What a coincidence. The press (TV2 in particular) is very obviously manufacturing a narrative, it's a deliberate propaganda effort. A few weeks ago, when someone at TV2 decided they wanted to create a narrative of antisemitism at universities, the initial story they ran was about how Jewish students feel threatened by the protests supporting Palestine. Except TV2 couldn't actually find any Jewish students who were willing to say that they felt that way, so instead they asked a completely unrelated person (someone from K), who is neither Jewish nor a student, if they thought Jewish students might feel intimidated. When that person said "sure", that was enough to base an article on. It's ridiculously blatant.
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May 19, 2024 08:44
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Esran posted:The press (TV2 in particular) is very obviously manufacturing a narrative, it's a deliberate propaganda effort. This is DR, but yeah. Mizrahi-Werner actually sat his rear end down near the encampment to debate the students as a declared Zionist, but I guess there was insufficient interest. This is the third DR article centered around him to my knowledge. There was another Jewish student who initially said he didn't feel threatened by them at all, but changed his tune now when they said the word "intifada" (a word that's also used to describe the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, mind you). I guess it doesn't resonate at all that there are Jewish students participating, Jewish leftists turning up to show support, they even had the Jewish-Israeli activist Jonathan Ofir speak against the genocide at the encampment. Makes me wish DR license was still separately billed so I could tell them to shove their so-called journalism straight up their rear end.
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May 19, 2024 12:47
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Grimnarsson posted:I maybe wrong, but from what I know Sweden wanted to make Norway part of Sweden, but Bernadotte opted rather to become king of Norway and make it a personal union. Similarly, earlier, the Swedish elites hoped that Bernadotte would be revanchist regarding Finland when Napoleon was about to invade Russia but surprising (disappointing) everyone he wasn't and became an opponent of Napoleon. Seems to me like he was a shrewd politician. the whole 1814 kerfuffle really is very interesting when you look at the players and the objectives involved basically the entire norwegian elite wanted to be with denmark and tried to engineer reuinification on more favourable terms for norway. the swedes weren't impressed and invaded. after it became clear that it would become an actual war and that the norwegian forces wouldn't just melt away on contact, and a compromise was reached; norwegian constitutionalism under the swedish crown. basically, as far as i can tell, the swedes were banking on monarchism being properly revived after the defeat of napoleon and with the restoration of the old order across europe, and that the personal union would outweigh the constitutional order and nascent norwegian popular nationalism. in hindsight that was a crazy bet, but it was at least plausible at the time
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May 19, 2024 17:45
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From what I recall being taught in school in Finland is that Norway was given to Sweden as compensation for Finland as a reward for opposing Napoleon (and Denmark had allied with Napoleon so punishment for them). Great Power politics in other words, but no doubt there were internal politics going on in Sweden, Denmark, and Finland also that made these "transitions" relatively smooth.
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May 19, 2024 20:41
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Where did you go to school?
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May 19, 2024 20:51
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Grimnarsson posted:From what I recall being taught in school in Finland is that Norway was given to Sweden as compensation for Finland as a reward for opposing Napoleon (and Denmark had allied with Napoleon so punishment for them). Great Power politics in other words, but no doubt there were internal politics going on in Sweden, Denmark, and Finland also that made these "transitions" relatively smooth. I'm sure we can find other countries with a justified reason to bomb London to join us.
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May 19, 2024 21:08
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Or maybe the question is "when"? It's possible also that I didn't do very well and I've filled the gaps afterward and created false memories. Like I have this memory that there was no elaboration as to why Swedish regiments weren't in Finland in 1808-09, and therefore I thought that Sweden was negligent toward it's eastern territory. Only afterward I read that there was a French army in Denmark poised to invade Scania and the Swedish army was preparing for that.
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May 19, 2024 21:14
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A Buttery Pastry posted:"Allied" here meaning "Was attacked for the second time within the decade by the Brits as a neutral power, this time including the bombardment of the capital, and decided to fight back." That entire affair would and should justify a future Danish bombardment of London and the dissolution of the UK. Well yeah, "allied" because they didn't have much choice. When the European Great Powers had conflicts the what are now Nordic countries didn't/don't have much say.
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May 19, 2024 21:26
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Grimnarsson posted:From what I recall being taught in school in Finland is that Norway was given to Sweden as compensation for Finland as a reward for opposing Napoleon (and Denmark had allied with Napoleon so punishment for them). Great Power politics in other words, but no doubt there were internal politics going on in Sweden, Denmark, and Finland also that made these "transitions" relatively smooth. nah this is basically an ok recapitulation and it rhymes with the basic story we also get in our schools
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May 19, 2024 21:37
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V. Illych L. posted:nah this is basically an ok recapitulation and it rhymes with the basic story we also get in our schools In conclusion, Russia must be destroyed alongside the UK.
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May 19, 2024 21:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:In conclusion, Russia must be destroyed alongside the UK. I can get behind that, as long as Russia doesn’t nuke Finnmark or Svalbard in the process
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May 19, 2024 23:03
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Oh nooo, not Finnmark and Svalbard...
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May 20, 2024 00:05
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Well they are the best places
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May 20, 2024 04:45
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Where would we get all our peat after such a thing?
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May 21, 2024 11:12
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Isn't Svalbard basically the least likely place to get nuked though? There's both Russians and Norwegians up there, the strategic value is based on claim to the Arctic (which is probably void following a nuclear holocaust) and the Doomsday Vault is up there and presumably interesting to keep for all participants. Anyway, it's election poster season now! I like to look for ones that have slogans that have actually actionable messages that you can find real people who would disagree with. So far, Enhedslisten has won with "stop EUs støtte til Israel". Very doable in a technical sense and obviously highly controversial (though not so much in the target demographic). Less points for "færre lobbyister, flere socialister", but still more than the conservative "en sikker stemme i EU" which is just nothing
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May 21, 2024 11:44
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"Lyntog gennem Europa", jadak.
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May 21, 2024 11:56
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BonHair posted:Isn't Svalbard basically the least likely place to get nuked though? There's both Russians and Norwegians up there, the strategic value is based on claim to the Arctic (which is probably void following a nuclear holocaust) and the Doomsday Vault is up there and presumably interesting to keep for all participants. A lot of the "logic" behind MAD and nuclear warfare can be summed up with "gently caress you, that's why", and destroying the global storage vault for seeds would gently caress up your enemy too, so why not blow it up? We're blowing everything up already. poo poo, I really need to re-watch Doctor Strangelove soon. The grimmer, slightly less flippant aspect is that the global food supply would be absolutely devastated in a larger-scale nuclear war, and the people who aren't just obliterated by the initial attack would find themselves desperate for a piece of bread. The seed vault is a fantastic project, but if this kind of poo poo hit the fan, it'd be of less than immediate use. So, in summation, please don't start nuclear wars, or hell, any wars, because wars are bad and people should not be killed.
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May 21, 2024 11:59
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BonHair posted:Anyway, it's election poster season now! I like to look for ones that have slogans that have actually actionable messages that you can find real people who would disagree with. So far, Enhedslisten has won with "stop EUs støtte til Israel". Very doable in a technical sense and obviously highly controversial (though not so much in the target demographic). None of them are actionable as the EU parliament has no power to introduce legislation.
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May 21, 2024 12:12
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Rappaport posted:So, in summation, please don't start nuclear wars, or hell, any wars, because wars are bad and people should not be killed. gently caress you I won't do what you tell me SplitSoul posted:None of them are actionable as the EU parliament has no power to introduce legislation. God drat it, you're right and the whole system is very bad.
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May 21, 2024 12:52
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BonHair posted:gently caress you I won't do what you tell me The very basis for many wars
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May 21, 2024 12:57
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Wars are generally very bad unless they're people's wars, but some people should most definitely be killed, especially if they leave no other recourse for their oppressed or their crimes are particularly heinous.
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May 21, 2024 14:19
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I would agree that oppressive institutions, no matter what they are, should be brought down. Your post just reminds me of Vonnegut's character of "Paul Lazzaro". Vonnegut writes that if a dog behaved as that character, and we are meant to believe they are people he met while killing all those Nazis, the dog would be put down for the good of everyone.
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May 21, 2024 14:42
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Rappaport posted:I would agree that oppressive institutions, no matter what they are, should be brought down. Your post just reminds me of Vonnegut's character of "Paul Lazzaro". Vonnegut writes that if a dog behaved as that character, and we are meant to believe they are people he met while killing all those Nazis, the dog would be put down for the good of everyone. Your username has the same effect on me, but at least he got his poo poo wrecked by a mutant bear in his latest role.
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May 21, 2024 14:48
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SplitSoul posted:Your username has the same effect on me, but at least he got his poo poo wrecked by a mutant bear in his latest role. He did, at that. My nickname is from a Stanislaw Lem novel though. I dunno if you'd like Saul Rappaport as a character, but he articulates pretty well why certain technological advances, like nukes, are awful and lead to disastrous moral problems.
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May 21, 2024 14:54
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generally there is a very pressing need for someone to provide a case apart from strictly "some guys are just hitler and some countries are germany circa 1938" for whence wars come and how to prevent them. the establishment answer tends to be "win as early as possible", which translates to an incredibly aggressive posture the moralist framework for politics was a big mistake imo, we should return to a view of politics based on organised interests competing by whatever means at their disposal
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May 21, 2024 17:07
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V. Illych L. posted:generally there is a very pressing need for someone to provide a case apart from strictly "some guys are just hitler and some countries are germany circa 1938" for whence wars come and how to prevent them. the establishment answer tends to be "win as early as possible", which translates to an incredibly aggressive posture The problem is that if you have Doctor Doom willing to push the button on annihilating everything but Latveria, and also maybe Latveria, you have a problem. The whole reason for a rules-based "international order" of laws and decrees is you don't have Doctor Dooms, you have reasonable people. That fell apart with Putin and now Israel.
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May 21, 2024 17:12
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I like the Liberalerna posters arguing for protectionism against China. I thought liberals liked free trade
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May 21, 2024 17:22
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Rappaport posted:The problem is that if you have Doctor Doom willing to push the button on annihilating everything but Latveria, and also maybe Latveria, you have a problem. The whole reason for a rules-based "international order" of laws and decrees is you don't have Doctor Dooms, you have reasonable people. That fell apart with Putin and now Israel.
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May 21, 2024 17:24
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The world police are allowed to break the world rules. Also free trade doesn't count when it doesn't benefit Western countries. Good free trade is when we have the upper hand and can force bad (or equal) deals on other nations.
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May 21, 2024 17:29
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Rappaport posted:The whole reason for a rules-based "international order" of laws and decrees is you don't have Doctor Dooms, you have reasonable people. That fell apart with Putin lol it was all going so well before putin
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May 21, 2024 18:54
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Turns out the "rules-based international order" was neither rules, nor based, nor order.A Buttery Pastry posted:You can't really talk about the rules-based "international order" falling apart without mentioning the Iraq War. Also Guantánamo where the U.S. deposited kidnapped children and performed torture, up to and including injecting hummus up the rear end of a detainee. SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 21, 2024 |
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May 21, 2024 19:04
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SplitSoul posted:Turns out the "rules-based international order" was neither rules, nor based, nor order.
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May 21, 2024 19:15
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thotsky posted:lol it was all going so well before putin I think we can all appreciate the tragecomedy of Francis Fukuyama himself going "whoops, my bad, this was all nonsense". So if the "international order", mostly maintained by the US who merrily went along to murder people in Iraq, and Russia who merrily are having their own genocide at the moment, what is the alternative? That Sweden, under Uffe of all people, regains righteous rule over "his" half of the continent, and subjugates Norway and Finland again? I guess Denmark belongs to Germania in this scenario, I don't know. The point is, the big guys, with the nukes, make the rules, and we as smaller states only have in our arsenal the option of diplomacy to make them sometimes not murder a bunch of people. This is the core of what Kekkonen did, aside from making himself a god-king, to negotiate and have the "great powers" agree to terms. That is what ETYK was, and that ultimately resulted in the destruction of the "second world", because freedom of the press wasn't something the Sovjets could withstand. No one wants a nuclear war. No one wants a conventional war. We have one in Ukraine and one in Israel, and both are bad. What is the consensus idea about bringing them both to a close? Something that'd get Jeffrey a visit from the SS? edit I am changing phrasing because it was impolite and rude, and I am sorry, I got a bit cranky Rappaport fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 21, 2024 |
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May 21, 2024 19:30
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Rappaport posted:The problem is that if you have Doctor Doom willing to push the button on annihilating everything but Latveria, and also maybe Latveria, you have a problem. The whole reason for a rules-based "international order" of laws and decrees is you don't have Doctor Dooms, you have reasonable people. That fell apart with Putin and now Israel. i do think it would've been nice to have an international order based on actual international law rather than whatever uncle sam felt like at the time (which is what the "rules-based international order" means, it's specifically something else than international law). that went out of the window way before putin. there was an opportunity in the nineties to work more or less along the helsinki processes, but the US apparently assumed that they would be the sole superpower forever and decided that international law was basically just a hindrance to them enforcing the new order on a global basis. imo the two became irrevocably distinct at some point during the disintegration of yugoslavia. one of the big tragedies about ukraine is that it really does appear to have been avoidable. the parties got stuck in an escalatory cycle which exploded when the russians decided that they basically had to invade to secure their interests. are those legitimate interests? imo no, but they're clearly real interests in that the russian government was willing to take a frankly enormous risk and pay a major price in order to secure them. note that this means that i effectively reject the doctor doom model of international relations; i assume that the russian government is basically rational and represents certain interests, primarily the interests of a homegrown class of connected "national" capitalists allied with a kind of political mafia based off of the clandestine services, who have generally left people alone so long as they stayed quiet (this is showing some signs of changing now, with the russian government trying a more mobilisationist and openly right-nationalist approach, though still pretty cautiously). so, what is the lesson for us up here in the border zone? it could be that only a nuclear deterrent is effective but, as i previously hinted, i think that there's a bunch of reasons to be skeptical of a strategy that relies on someone else being willing to end human civilisation on your behalf, and also this has major strings attached and is morally questionable. alternatively, it could be that we need to be a hedgehog; spiky and difficult prey, but inoffensive and cautious. i maintain that the nordic countries together could put together a perfectly credible conventional deterrent providing that we remain effectively neutral in major geopolitical affairs, and that this would be the most way to represent the general interest of regional (and global) peace. this means that we keep our interventions to forums like the UN, and that we avoid entanglements like iraq, afghanistan, yugoslavia, libya or ukraine regardless of the relative moral value of any of those endeavours.
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May 21, 2024 20:07
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