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Superior Defenders is fine for what it is which is a goofy kid's TV show.
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Jun 1, 2020 00:40
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Yeah, I don’t really count any of the Gunpla shows as “Gundam” proper. They’ve got more in common structurally with Yugioh. You might as well include it with Gundam-San.
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Jun 1, 2020 00:48
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HitTheTargets posted:Yeah, I don’t really count any of the Gunpla shows as “Gundam” proper. They’ve got more in common structurally with Yugioh. You might as well include it with Gundam-San. I mean we had a Yu-Gi-Oh show where card game mass murder was part of the plot I don't know what the distinction is at this point
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Jun 1, 2020 01:03
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HitTheTargets posted:Yeah, I don’t really count any of the Gunpla shows as “Gundam” proper. They’ve got more in common structurally with Yugioh. You might as well include it with Gundam-San. And even if you do count them, that's two good seasons, two bad seasons, and two good OVAs. So it's still evidence for my "most gundam is good" position
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Jun 1, 2020 01:10
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HitTheTargets posted:Yeah, I don’t really count any of the Gunpla shows as “Gundam” proper. They’ve got more in common structurally with Yugioh. You might as well include it with Gundam-San. You're right. I should have included Gundam-San. (The anime's not very good. Which is odd, since Gundam Sousei is pretty fun.)
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Jun 1, 2020 01:12
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HitTheTargets posted:Yeah, I don’t really count any of the Gunpla shows as “Gundam” proper. They’ve got more in common structurally with Yugioh. You might as well include it with Gundam-San. I mean, Re:Rise is quite Gundam (with a significant dose of Digimon, admittedly).
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Jun 1, 2020 01:18
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Blockhouse posted:I mean generally good Gundam shows have, like, at least one likable character and a plot that isn't intensely tedious. I didn’t say it was good. It’s fine. I mean, as far as “everyone is unlikable” that’s a lotta goddamn tomino gundams. that’s zeta to me. And there are several likable characters. They just die or are barely on screen. Gripweed posted:No it's not, most Gundam is good. Massive massive citation needed.
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Jun 1, 2020 01:28
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Monsha is up there with Wufei and Chronicle for characters in Gundam I just don't like. Chronicle is only on there being so dull tho.
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Jun 1, 2020 02:52
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Gripweed posted:I do think that Gundam 0083 gets a little too much hate. Yes the three leads are dull, annoying, and bafflingly terrible. Yes pretty necessary development for one character is only available in a separately released audio drama. Yes the plot requires an insane contrivance on the part of the bafflingly terrible character. But the animations is great, there's good action and mecha designs, and memorable side characters. 0083 had a lot of potential that it went in the dumbest direction with There are worse shows, like AGE.
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Jun 1, 2020 02:58
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Monsha is up there with Wufei and Chronicle for characters in Gundam I just don't like. Chronicle is only on there being so dull tho. Chronicle is good for this alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI4ewYRrv7s
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Jun 1, 2020 02:58
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Monsha is up there with Wufei and Chronicle for characters in Gundam I just don't like. Chronicle is only on there being so dull tho. I give Chronicle a break because it's so obvious that half his character was left on the cutting-room floor. They allude to what's going on with him (that he's a horrendous manipulative creep who cyber-Newtyped Katejina), but never quite follow through on it.
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Jun 1, 2020 03:01
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Darth Walrus posted:I give Chronicle a break because it's so obvious that half his character was left on the cutting-room floor. They allude to what's going on with him (that he's a horrendous manipulative creep who cyber-Newtyped Katejina), but never quite follow through on it. This is one of my complaints about Victory. I loving love Katejina, she is insane and they clearly went with her as their main rival/villain after shuttlecocking Chronicle to the side but her push to where she went with it all would have been 100% more interesting than the 2 "lets rescue Shakti" missions and Lupe the Child Molester arc. I don't think Katejina needed to much of a push to become a Maria acolyte - she already was pretty jaded and clearly not that interested in the League Millitaire from the start - but her turn to going whole hog in did come a bit suddenly. ImpAtom posted:Chronicle is good for this alone: Sometimes, when I need a good laugh, I pull this up.
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Jun 1, 2020 03:11
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ImpAtom posted:Chronicle is good for this alone: The clonk noise and immediate cutaway to Haro really seal the deal.
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Jun 1, 2020 03:13
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Midjack posted:I think it was also Dynasty Warriors Gundam 1, where you could get Tem Rey upgrade parts for each of the four slots and they were trash until you got all four, at which point they became pretty good. You could also get them in Alpha Gaiden, they reduced movement and dodge, but the units repair cost was set to 10.
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Jun 1, 2020 03:18
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Hunter Noventa posted:You could also get them in Alpha Gaiden, they reduced movement and dodge, but the units repair cost was set to 10. I know you could absolutely get them in Alpha since IIRC putting them on Eva-01 was a completely valid strategy.
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Jun 1, 2020 03:20
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I think the big thing about 0083 is it’s got the biggest disconnect between how cool the audience thinks characters are and how cool we’re supposed to think they are up until probably Seed/Seed Destiny. It’s like, “hey, don’t worry, Kou ends up with Nina despite it all. That’s his happy ending.” But is it though? “Oh no, Gato died! What a mythopoetically tragic moment!” Yeah bye, I guess. “Monsh-“ Lemme stop you right there, buddy.
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Jun 1, 2020 03:39
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ImpAtom posted:Chronicle is good for this alone: Holder of the 'Most inappropriate cut to commercial' award until that one time a character on Battlestar Galactica shot themselves in the head followed seconds later by an ad for a big bowl of tomato soup being splashed everywhere.
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Jun 1, 2020 07:41
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Cima is loving rad and I wish they'd built an entire series around her. On the Tem Ray circuit, in Alpha it made the stats of a unit go down like 10% but also meant you didn't have to pay to repair it if it got shot down. Or maybe it was some token amount, like 50 money. The power move was to equip it on EVA-01 because EVA-01's berserker mode was extremely strong, but Evangelions cost like six trillion bucks to fix.
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Jun 1, 2020 07:54
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08th MS team had a cool final battle with bald mohawk guy owning now on to zeta i guess. big lol at how there are entire episodes of people just walking up to kamile and beating him up
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Jun 1, 2020 10:07
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Nessus posted:Cima is loving rad and I wish they'd built an entire series around her. Cima is a good idea on paper, but not in execution. I don't even mean the fact that a lot of her character development is in the radio dramas either, because even when including that she's still a kind of bipolar character who is supposed to represent those that turned on Zeon, given that she seems really gung-ho about Zeon even by the time of Solomon 10 months or so after she was fooled in to gassing a colony, and frankly, even in 0083 itself she seems absolutey fine with Zeon almost all the way until the end. There's a scene about half way through the show where she visits Anaheim's moon facility and threatens the guy who meets her that she'll drop a colony on them if they ever give her a poo poo berth again. Which, putting aside the bad taste of that joke, is not one she had to make to keep up any kind of identity since she was just dealing with an AE employee in a situation where she only got upset due to her own personal snobbishness. It paints her as someone still heavily invested in Zeon. Cima is a great idea as someone who got burned by her faith in Zeon and turned on them due to the atrocities they commit in the name of idealism, placing reality above those ideals. That's not the version that we got though, no matter where you take your information on her. As is though, she's all style and no substance. Which defines 0083 itself, really.
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Jun 1, 2020 14:22
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Yeah I've never really gotten the love for Cima- like it always seemed like that came from her simply not being Kou/Nina/Gato/etc. to me. BTW has anyone else seen the 0083 compilation movie? I watched that a few days ago and was surprised by what a good job it did paring down 0083 to feature length. Like it doesn't fix any of the stupider things about 0083's story, but man it really shows how much fat even one of these Gundam OVA's has on it.
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Jun 1, 2020 15:18
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Cima's tigerskin rug alone has more personality than every boring twat in the Delaz fleet.
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Jun 1, 2020 15:36
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Yeah the love of Cima is 100% because of her style. Which is totally legitimate.
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Jun 1, 2020 15:48
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Y'all don't have to look that far back to find my 0080 take which is universally reviled here. 0083 is fun, it's not really good in terms of plot of characters I guess, but it is very entertaining for your dollar and the animation is some of the best of its era for Gundam. It is the poster boy for the "Cool Robot" meme.
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Jun 1, 2020 16:15
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Ramadu posted:08th MS team had a cool final battle with bald mohawk guy owning Everyone in Zeta has anger issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt9aXIMyFao Chaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kFgOWyez0
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Jun 1, 2020 16:34
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Y'all don't have to look that far back to find my 0080 take which is universally reviled here. IIRC it was pretty much “I don’t like Al.” Not exactly a blisteringly spicy Take, even if it is uncommon.
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Jun 1, 2020 16:35
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I thought he wasn't going to be in the novels at all because the Pegasus never goes to earth, but right at the beginning of the third one we get a brief appearance from Lambda Ral! There's even a reference to his fiance, Claret Harmine.
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Jun 1, 2020 23:04
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https://twitter.com/KaelanRamos/status/1267629505620987911?s=20
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Jun 2, 2020 02:40
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They included the Guncannon kicking the crap out of someone with melee attacks so they were obviously a person of good taste and wise understanding.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GhAHBOBtIU
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Jun 2, 2020 11:59
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tsob posted:Cima is a good idea on paper, but not in execution. I don't even mean the fact that a lot of her character development is in the radio dramas either, because even when including that she's still a kind of bipolar character who is supposed to represent those that turned on Zeon, given that she seems really gung-ho about Zeon even by the time of Solomon 10 months or so after she was fooled in to gassing a colony, and frankly, even in 0083 itself she seems absolutey fine with Zeon almost all the way until the end. There's a scene about half way through the show where she visits Anaheim's moon facility and threatens the guy who meets her that she'll drop a colony on them if they ever give her a poo poo berth again. Which, putting aside the bad taste of that joke, is not one she had to make to keep up any kind of identity since she was just dealing with an AE employee in a situation where she only got upset due to her own personal snobbishness. It paints her as someone still heavily invested in Zeon.
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Jun 2, 2020 12:12
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Your post appears to have little to do with my complaints about her character, buy okay. We're never told why she wants revengeance in the animation, she doesn't actually appear that concerned with vengeance in the animation and if anything, appears very loyal to Zeon until the moment it's no longer personally advantageous for her to be. If you include the blu-ray specials, that becomes even more plausible.
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Jun 2, 2020 23:40
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I like how Zachs does a speed run of Chars character arc.
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Jun 2, 2020 23:59
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Nessus posted:On the Tem Ray circuit, in Alpha it made the stats of a unit go down like 10% but also meant you didn't have to pay to repair it if it got shot down. Or maybe it was some token amount, like 50 money. The power move was to equip it on EVA-01 because EVA-01's berserker mode was extremely strong, but Evangelions cost like six trillion bucks to fix. Nah, the power move was to let the Eva get shot down, and then shoot down the Berserk Eva yourself for bonus money. Or, you know, not do that since the Evas were generally fine units already. As for Cima I think, like so much of 0083, what stands out is less Cima as she exists and more the idea of Cima. The Dream of Cima. Cima as the poorly written character on screen isn't great even if she is better than the leads, but the Idea of Cima as a burned, bitter character who was disillusioned with Zeon facing betrayal on all sides and dying tragically and for no reason? That's a really good Idea for a character on paper, even if it wasn't what she was on screen. That stands for 0083 in general, it works better as what it could be on paper than what it actually is. Kou sucks, but he sucks less on paper where he's a dim bulb Feddie who doesn't realize how crap the Federation is and how even when he does go off the reservation his actions don't make things better things no matter how hard he tries. Gato sucks, but he sucks less on paper when he's Kou's contrast, a Zeonic lost causer fighting a losing battle aiming to go out in a noble blaze of glory, not realizing his cause is neither noble or glorious. Nina sucks a LOT, but again on paper there's nothing wrong with the Idea of Nina as an Anaheim Engineer who acts almost literally as an avatar for the war profiteering company torn between both sides in the conflict. 0083 as a series of assholes doing stupid things holds it back from the Idea of 0083, that moment where war became inevitable. Stardust Memories takes place halfway between the original and Zeta timeline-wise, but the events of 0083 preordains that war on the backs of people motivated by ignorance, greed, shortsightedness, and foolhardy pride. The action and inaction of the people in 0083 is why the Gryps Conflict and later the Neo Zeon War and maybe even CCA came to be, and it's stunning how little power 0083 has in light of that.
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Jun 3, 2020 04:44
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If Gato hadn't gone buck wild, Bask Om would have been the savior of Earth! Probably literally! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Kamille! e: I mean like the actual one, the Solar System 2 would have presumably actually taken out the incoming colony.
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Jun 3, 2020 07:18
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We should be glad that Gato stole a suit with only one Nuke in it, imagine the shenanigans he could have pulled off if he had somehow gotten his hands on something like the RX-78 G-3 White Devil from Solomon Express, which has a lot more nukes equipped than the GP02 and still is able to carry a conventional weapons loadout as well
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Jun 3, 2020 07:42
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I finished the Gundam novels. They're interesting, they aren't a retelling of the original series so much as a supplement to it. Char's quest for revenge, Amuro and Char's rivalry, the crew of orphans and misfits trying to survive the war on the White Base, those aspects of the story got their full telling in the series. So in the novels they're intentionally sideline in the novels to make room for the aspect that didn't; Newtypes. Also a decent amount of horniness. I would recommend them to fans of the original series, as long as they aren't the sort who complain about "Newtype bullshit" in Gundam. Although, who knows maybe those people would be able to develop some appreciation for the Newtype idea after reading it all laid out by itself. And even if you don't like the books, at the end you still get a prize because the novel version of Kycilia's death almost makes the series version seem tame and unmemorable in comparison.
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Jun 3, 2020 14:26
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Gripweed posted:I finished the Gundam novels. They're interesting, they aren't a retelling of the original series so much as a supplement to it. Char's quest for revenge, Amuro and Char's rivalry, the crew of orphans and misfits trying to survive the war on the White Base, those aspects of the story got their full telling in the series. So in the novels they're intentionally sideline in the novels to make room for the aspect that didn't; Newtypes. Also a decent amount of horniness. I'll probably never get around to reading them, and you can't drop that spoiler like that. How the hell does she buy it that trumps landing on the Top Headshots of All Time list?
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Jun 3, 2020 14:57
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Gripweed can take it since he’ll get the details right but yeah it’s brutally great.
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Jun 3, 2020 16:14
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Warmachine posted:I'll probably never get around to reading them, and you can't drop that spoiler like that. How the hell does she buy it that trumps landing on the Top Headshots of All Time list? Char takes her inside the colony where Ghiren is on the palm of his mobile suit. She blows him the gently caress up with a bazooka... and then Char just tilts his robot's hand and she goes splat.
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Jun 3, 2020 16:21
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