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I would bring an IS2 as a Soviet, in case of coming up against Tigers if nothing else. Also if the Soviets have any brains they would keep those heavies as far away from the buildings as possible.
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Jul 5, 2014 00:04
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Perestroika posted:- The T-34s will blast through the Pz.IVs like it ain't no thing. They'll have some trouble against the Panthers, but can get lucky with hits to the turret or the shot trap. I've haven't played CM Red Thunder but Battlefront nerfed the early 85mm ammo in CM:BB, and T-34-85s and SU-85s had real difficulty penetrating armor in-game that they holed IRL. I don't know if they've fixed the issue. Generally Pz IVs had relatively strong hull armor and relatively weaker turret armor, so sometimes it all came down to where you got the hit.
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Jul 5, 2014 00:06
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Fangz posted:I would bring an IS2 as a Soviet, in case of coming up against Tigers if nothing else. Also if the Soviets have any brains they would keep those heavies as far away from the buildings as possible. It looks like the Soviet plan for the IS-2s is pretty sound, keep them on overwatch south of the river in reserve and unleash them on the Germans when an opening presents itself. Can't wait for the 'oh poo poo' moment when the two of them come into view 
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Jul 5, 2014 00:42
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gohuskies posted:I've haven't played CM Red Thunder but Battlefront nerfed the early 85mm ammo in CM:BB, and T-34-85s and SU-85s had real difficulty penetrating armor in-game that they holed IRL. I don't know if they've fixed the issue. Generally Pz IVs had relatively strong hull armor and relatively weaker turret armor, so sometimes it all came down to where you got the hit. Red Thunder is all 1944 iirc so the time frame should be after the 85mm shell issues.
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Jul 5, 2014 00:47
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I hope that the IS tanks will provide some spectacular entertainment, but at the same time I'm afraid that the Soviet investment into T-70s was a waste, especially considering the performance of light armour in the past games. The game is gearing up to become a fight in the village, and the Soviet deployment strategy seems them to be starved for more infantry... E: On the other hand I think that the Axis battalion command is quite a bit less competent than the Soviet one, so maybe that will come into play.
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Jul 5, 2014 00:59
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Yeah i think those ISs will make or break the game because the Soviets don't seem to have much cards other than them and the Germans can't seem to have the ability to regain composure if they're taken by surprised by the little Stalins.
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Jul 5, 2014 02:43
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steinrokkan posted:I hope that the IS tanks will provide some spectacular entertainment, but at the same time I'm afraid that the Soviet investment into T-70s was a waste, especially considering the performance of light armour in the past games. The game is gearing up to become a fight in the village, and the Soviet deployment strategy seems them to be starved for more infantry... Eh, depending on how effectively they use them as scouts the T-70s can play well with the IS-2s in scoping out where the Germans have their armor and directing where to send the heavy guns to best effect. Granted, some scout cars could have filled that role as well, but having some actual mechanized scouting capability should be a pretty decent advantage for the Soviets. The lack of a robust plan on the German side is worrying, although they do seem to have some good subordinate commanders. For all the planning though, getting a Panther or IS-2 stuck in one of the fords could tip the game either way.
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Jul 5, 2014 04:18
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What combat mission game would you recommend for a first purchase. The newest one? Or is there a better one?
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Jul 5, 2014 09:57
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Pea posted:1st Company 2nd Platoon orders Move QUICK to the edge of the map, deploy HMG in most likely barrage area, facing the enemy who's 1km away and behind 2 hills, await bombardment! 
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Jul 5, 2014 12:31
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karoshi posted:Move QUICK to the edge of the map, deploy HMG in most likely barrage area, facing the enemy who's 1km away and behind 2 hills, await bombardment! Huh. I'm not sure you posted this in the right thread.
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Jul 5, 2014 14:08
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Velius posted:Huh. I'm not sure you posted this in the right thread. This is the right thread for tongue in cheek commentary.
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Jul 5, 2014 14:09
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sniper4625 posted:This is the right thread for tongue in cheek commentary. Oh, I see. Missed the different name in the quoting. Good, there was enough of that sort of hijinx last game.
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Jul 5, 2014 14:45
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Alas, I'd be amazed if either team actually ends up being surprised at any particular unit popping up or deployment, people have a real hard time not stumbling into the wrong thread.
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Jul 5, 2014 15:32
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karoshi posted:Move QUICK to the edge of the map, deploy HMG in most likely barrage area, facing the enemy who's 1km away and behind 2 hills, await bombardment! Superior German machine guns will cut down any artillery shells in the air before they can fall on their kamaraden.
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Jul 5, 2014 17:48
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So, all I've gotten so far from skimming the threads is that the German's have a hardon for driveby flamethrowering. Which means, I really really want to them win now.
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Jul 6, 2014 02:23
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I'm kinda worried that the soviet positioning in the treeline is basically offering a perfect strike area to artillery. I mean if I was on the German team that's totally where I'd shoot first.
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Jul 6, 2014 02:32
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SIGSEGV posted:I'm kinda worried that the soviet positioning in the treeline is basically offering a perfect strike area to artillery. It seems like the Russians are very much aware of that as well. From the orders we've seen until now, they're only putting a token force and some tanks at its very edge to interdict any German surprise attacks, leaving the actual treeline empty. The main danger seems to be the easternmost crossing that most of their forces will be passing through, and that the Germans already have ordered some shelling on. That'll probably come down to how fast they'll manage to get through there.
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Jul 6, 2014 11:02
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If I'd learned everything from previous attempts it's that *timing* is really hard to pull off when doing it MP goon-style like this. Odds are that the artillery will arrive either too early or too late to do any damage at all, unless they are just sitting in place.
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Jul 6, 2014 11:52
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Pimpmust posted:If I'd learned everything from previous attempts it's that *timing* is really hard to pull off when doing it MP goon-style like this. Odds are that the artillery will arrive either too early or too late to do any damage at all, unless they are just sitting in place. I think one key is how the first five minutes respond to ongoing events. If I understand right they're going to try and just plow through all five minutes to get to the shooting, is that going to be enough time for infantry to start crossing the fords? If so, and they're under fire in some form is Grey going to make them proceed anyway or allow for changes at the three or four minute?
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Jul 6, 2014 13:07
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leekster posted:What combat mission game would you recommend for a first purchase. The newest one? Or is there a better one? CM: Barbarossa to Berlin is the the classic one. Its very old though (it's on their original 1x engine). But its still great fun to play aside from the balancing issues it has. Those being nerfed early Russian 85mm and Stug's just being godly. I honestly haven't been a fan of any of the 2x engine games because they took out the WEGO turn system for TCP/IP play leaving it all real time. Which is just a mess when you have a large battle going and brings APM into it. But I'm going to get this one because that change has been reversed.
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Jul 6, 2014 14:01
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Herp is being so competent! 
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Jul 6, 2014 14:54
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:We'll organise the rest next order phase. I have no clue as to where our units will be, where we can expect the krauts to be and where the flashpoints will be. I'm going to seize the objective, but I will do it cautiously. My company, my rules. Herp taking a stand! 
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Jul 6, 2014 20:39
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Oh man, I really can't wait for this initial turn to play out, because if I get what both sides have planned there are going to be some... unpleasant surprises.
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Jul 6, 2014 22:16
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Feinne posted:Oh man, I really can't wait for this initial turn to play out, because if I get what both sides have planned there are going to be some... unpleasant surprises. It's going to be a race to see who gets to the middle fords first (and who gets overwatch first  )
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Jul 6, 2014 23:00
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Terrifying Effigies posted:It's going to be a race to see who gets to the middle fords first (and who gets overwatch first I'm wondering how long the German smoke will last, and what the lines of sight from north of that Russian treeline are like. Because if the germans are just a bit unlucky with the timing the soviet tanks could take up position there and have a prime shot at anything crossing the G-12 ford, while their own AT-assets have their view blocked by their own smoke until its too late.
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Jul 6, 2014 23:09
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Derp will mysteriously disappear and his fate won't become known until 1994 when the Russians open part of their gulag archives.
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Jul 6, 2014 23:25
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dublish posted:
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Lets just hope they're laughing with us and not at us.
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Jul 6, 2014 23:29
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I'm too lazy to make sense out of what exactly both sides are planning (aside from Germans rushing tank riders through the eastern ford and the Soviets pushing I think everything through the eastern?), but I really hope Herp either dooms his side to failure or wins the battle by insubordination.
Tevery Best fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 23:58
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Soviet forces will be torn to shreds, but Herp's platoon will singlehandedly turn around the battle with its unpredictable antics. Alternatively Herp will follow General Wigfield's example and move south to ensure the grape trade in Southern Poland is fully under Soviet control.
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Jul 7, 2014 00:05
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Pimpmust posted:If I'd learned everything from previous attempts it's that *timing* is really hard to pull off when doing it MP goon-style like this. Odds are that the artillery will arrive either too early or too late to do any damage at all, unless they are just sitting in place. From what I've read in the german thread, they're planning to pretty much dedicate some guns to do a continous bombardment of that ford for at least half an hour.
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Jul 7, 2014 00:09
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Tevery Best posted:I'm too lazy to make sense out of what exactly both sides are planning (aside from Germans rushing tank riders through the eastern ford and the Soviets pushing I think everything through the eastern?), but I really hope Herp either dooms his side to failure or wins the battle by insubordination. Well depending on the timing of things I'm pretty sure one of the Germans' panthers is going to get turned into a pile of smoking metal by one of the little Stalins trying to ferry some dudes around right in the area it's going to be overwatching. If that does happen, it's a serious blow to ze Germans, they're already outclassed in armor and really can't afford to lose one of their actually decent tanks so laughably. Feinne fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 00:14
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Tevery Best posted:I'm too lazy to make sense out of what exactly both sides are planning (aside from Germans rushing tank riders through the eastern ford and the Soviets pushing I think everything through the eastern?), but I really hope Herp either dooms his side to failure or wins the battle by insubordination. From what I understand so far the Germans' plan is to devote a pretty big chunk of their forces towards defending the southern approach while the rest makes their way through the westernmost ford towards the objective, with a few tanks going through the closer one. Meanwhile, the Russians try to push almost all their forces through the easternmost ford, leaving only a mobile token force at the south and sending a tank-mounted platoon as a gofast force through the second-to-easternmost ford in the hopes of securing the village early. It's kind of mirrored that way, but I think the russians will have somewhat better lines of fire on the german's forward crossing. It seems like a whole lot will come down to how the timing turns out. Maybe the german artillery ends up seriously mauling the russian forces on their way through while their own forces get into position unhindered and ready to mop up the disorganised survivors. Or maybe the artillery comes down without much effect, the german forward elements get sniped by russian tanks and the russians can firmly dig in in the village while a big chunk of the germans now sit high and dry on the wrong side of the river. Or maybe nothing much at all happens early on and proper firefights only break out once both sides get close to the objective.
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Jul 7, 2014 00:43
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One interesting thing I've noted is that someone brought up the idea of shelling the fords on the west side on the Soviet side sight unseen and got told 'no, that's metagamey bullshit and we're not doing it', while nothing is beneath the honorless German dogs so of course they're doing it. I'll agree it's kind of a lame strategy because this is a meeting engagement and all and neither side is actually aware of the other beforehand. This and the fact that one side is literal Nazis makes it obvious that the heroic Soviets should triumph.
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Jul 7, 2014 00:54
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Ooh, a Combat Mission LP. I own all of the CM games so this should be very interesting. leekster posted:What combat mission game would you recommend for a first purchase. The newest one? Or is there a better one? All of the ones on the new engine (except Shock Force) are very similar so it really depends on what theater you are most interested in. Do you want Italy, Normandy + Market Garden, or 1944 Eastern Front? They stopped supporting Shock Force a long time ago and it's not as good as the WW2 games. Red Thunder is great but buggy at the moment. I haven't played it much because I've been waiting for them to patch it. The Italy game can be fun because it goes back to 1943 and you get to play with earlier war stuff, and it's interesting to fight in all that rugged, hilly terrain. Normandy might be my personal favorite. It has the most content out of all the WW2 games. There are tons of good mods and user-made scenarios and there's no way anyone could ever finish them all. They will be updating the Normandy and Italy games so they have the new features of Red Thunder as well. CM:BB is usually considered the best of the games on the old engine, but they are just too old for me. I like the newer ones, where you can see every individual rifleman get sent off to his death up close. Mans posted:Are flamethrowers viable anti tank weapons or do they serve only for very very specific occasions and are useless elsewhere? Flamethrowers don't do much at all against tanks. Against light vehicles maybe, but not tanks. They are most effective against infantry holed up in buildings or in some other good cover.
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Jul 7, 2014 01:31
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I have a feeling it's going to be: Germans get some of their force in position first while the Soviets end up stalled south of the river, but mostly safe. The Germans lose some of their best units on the south side. The bulk of the Soviet force then goes up against the remaining Germans who have to make a defensive stand. I'd give the edge to the Soviets in the end as they ought to have a good view of how the Germans set up, and it's not like the Wehrmacht has time to really get set.
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Jul 7, 2014 01:55
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So, taking bets, which side is going to be caught cheating first?
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Jul 7, 2014 03:04
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bunnyofdoom posted:So, taking bets, which side is going to be caught cheating first? The Germans, because I want the Heroic Soviets to win after the greyjustments are finalized.
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Jul 7, 2014 03:11
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Magni posted:From what I've read in the german thread, they're planning to pretty much dedicate some guns to do a continous bombardment of that ford for at least half an hour. Looking back at the orders its just one gun dropping 3-4 shells a minute on the far ford, which depending on the timing might get lucky and take out a few crossing infantry. Unless it suddenly causes the Russians to delay their crossing I don't think it will have much of an impact on the overall battle.
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Jul 7, 2014 03:57
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Yeah the Soviet commander laid out why bombarding the fords sounds really good but in practice ends up being inefficient given the cost of having the bombardments and the cost of infantry. Most likely ze Germans are just wasting the points they put into having that bombardment. I don't know why ze Germans want to use that exposed ford, it's far enough away from their deployment that the Soviet armor will have ages to get in position to overwatch it and plaster the armor that's going that way as it enters view. They seem to expect the Soviets to really heavily invest down south but I can't imagine why, since that's not where the objective is. Feinne fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 05:29
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Kenzie posted:Flamethrowers don't do much at all against tanks. Against light vehicles maybe, but not tanks. They are most effective against infantry holed up in buildings or in some other good cover.
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Jul 7, 2014 07:15
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