|
The Warszawa posted:Hey gfanikf, do you mind clarifying this? He's an exploitative rear end in a top hat who likes to use race and racial matters to enrich himself.
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 08:18 |
|
|
gfanikf posted:He's an exploitative rear end in a top hat who likes to use race and racial matters to enrich himself. Would you say he's a "race hustler"?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:02
|
|
|
Badger of Basra posted:Would you say he's a "race hustler"? Ho ho you're so clever. He's a despicable human being that can't even take responsibility for Tawana Brawley.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:05
|
|
|
Sharpton is admirable, but he was a lot more admirable before a black president got in office and he made the tactical decision to support him no matter what.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:07
|
|
|
What is going on here
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:10
|
|
|
Omelette du Fromage posted:What is going on here Impending descent into accusations of racism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:19
|
|
|
Anecdotally this thread seems to suggest Republicans, in light of the Colorado recalls, will be doubling (tripling?) down on their pandering to the white base as hard as possible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:27
|
|
|
Whatever you may think of him, Al Sharpton not endorsing Bill Thompson because of a lukewarm stop-and-frisk stance certainly seems meaningful in the context of the election itself (ostensibly what this thread is about), particularly since that was such a central issue which helped fuel de Blasio to victory. So the original point seems off. Any more info on Natalie Tennant? Some quick digging produces this newspaper poll from the (non-British) Daily Mail from the end of August: quote:Rep. Shelley Moore Capito's run for U.S. Senate could be a tight one if Secretary of State Natalie Tennant were to enter the race, according to the latest edition of the West Virginia Poll. 5 point deficit isn't prime position, but it's a hell of a lot better than anything else I've seen from that race. Also, the rest of that newspaper's own article details how much their own poll sucks, so...
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:35
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Sharpton is admirable, but he was a lot more admirable before a black president got in office and he made the tactical decision to support him no matter what. I can't say I blame him, given how much of the visible, vociferous opposition to said president is because he's black. Plenty of minority political leaders are flawed, many grievously so, but they're still a net step forward for the community. Bob Menendez is kind of a poo poo, but I'll back him because giving into the Tucker Carlson "heheh, spic whoremonger" bullshit is bad for minority representation even beyond just Menendez. gfanikf posted:He's an exploitative rear end in a top hat who likes to use race and racial matters to enrich himself. I'm curious what he's exploiting, because it seems like he's the wrong color to profit off institutional racism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 20:35
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:I'm curious what he's exploiting, because it seems like he's the wrong color to profit off institutional racism. Yet, he's managed to quite well, I never said he was devoid of any talent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 21:28
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:Yet, he's managed to quite well, I never said he was devoid of any talent. Another impregnable argument by forums poster gfanikf.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 21:30
|
|
|
Help me out, Gfanikf: is an exploitative rear end in a top hat who uses race to enrich himself better or worse than a new york puppet master who tries to steal the guns out of the hands of true patriots? TIA for your assistance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 21:48
|
|
|
Bloomberg is definitely a puppet master, or at least he wishes he was. That was such a whiff from Media Matters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 21:52
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:I can't say I blame him, given how much of the visible, vociferous opposition to said president is because he's black. Plenty of minority political leaders are flawed, many grievously so, but they're still a net step forward for the community. Bob Menendez is kind of a poo poo, but I'll back him because giving into the Tucker Carlson "heheh, spic whoremonger" bullshit is bad for minority representation even beyond just Menendez. I think we're starting to test the limits of this logic in certain places. At the very least, the rejection of lovely minority candidates from legitimate positions shouldn't be viewed as agreement with the racist motives of certain other detractors.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 21:56
|
|
|
double negative posted:I think we're starting to test the limits of this logic in certain places. At the very least, the rejection of lovely minority candidates from legitimate positions shouldn't be viewed as agreement with the racist motives of certain other detractors. When every other candidate in the running is either roughly equivalent or significantly worse on that so-called legitimate position then I'm going to say that the johnny come-late bandwagon criticism from these detractors probably have a significant racist component. Simply put: I automatically discount that sort of faux-populist critique. For a more specific example: I'm against Obama's position on Syria or dronestrikes, but you're not going to get me to support, say, Rand Paul's position on dronestrikes (or the generic Republican one, either or). Not based on his record and his filibuster speech. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Sep 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
api call girl posted:When every other candidate in the running is either roughly equivalent or significantly worse on that so-called legitimate position then I'm going to say that the johnny come-late bandwagon criticism from these detractors probably have a significant racist component. What about when every other candidate in the running isn't roughly equivalent or worse than that minority candidate? I'm not quite sure what's faux-populist about what I'm saying here, but you're certainly stuffing a lot of qualifiers in there. To be clear, I'm not speaking specifically about the NYC mayoral race.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
double negative posted:What about when every other candidate in the running isn't roughly equivalent or worse than that minority candidate? I'm not quite sure what's faux-populist about what I'm saying here, but you're certainly stuffing a lot of qualifiers in there. To be clear, I'm not speaking specifically about the NYC mayoral race. You stuffed a qualifier in your post that makes your suggestion/position entirely hypothetical, I'm actually being more precise and specific than your post. BdB may well have a better stance on stop and frisk (I haven't delved into the specifics on this, partly being that I don't live anywhere near NYC) than Thompson, but I'm clearly not talking about that position on that issue. By all means, criticize someone when you think they're in the wrong on something, as it'd be fair to criticize (or not endorse) Thompson based on his stance on stop and frisk. What Warszawa and I are addressing are the very disingenuous and often hypocritical attacks on them. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Sep 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 22:24
|
|
|
Nice Davis posted:Help me out, Gfanikf: is an exploitative rear end in a top hat who uses race to enrich himself better or worse than a new york puppet master who tries to steal the guns out of the hands of true patriots? TIA for your assistance. Both are assholes. Though Bloomberg is worse since he can enact policy such as stop and frisk and just piss all off the 4th amendment rights of minorities vs Sharpton who can't. Honestly there not really comparable, except in being assholes. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Sep 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 22:24
|
|
|
api call girl posted:You stuffed a qualifier in your post that makes your suggestion/position entirely hypothetical, I'm actually being more precise and specific than your post. BdB may well have a better stance on stop and frisk (I haven't delved into the specifics on this, partly being that I don't live anywhere near NYC) than Thompson, but I'm clearly not talking about that position on that issue. Your particular example doesn't really make sense to me, since a rejection of Obama's policies on Syria doesn't necessitate or even signal acceptance of anything Rand Paul says. I only responded to Warszawa's comment because he made a much more general statement about supporting minority candidates and what minority candidates mean for their communities. I'm still not understand the faux-populism comment, but my position is borne out of my experiences with the racial politics in the predominantly black cities where I've spent most of my life. I'm not gonna stress about voting against Willie Herenton because white racists dislike him for other reasons.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 22:57
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Angela Giron wasn't prepared to attribute it to intensity. She thinks her own constituents were too dumb and confused to oppose her recall. It didn't have anything to do with Coloradans resenting meddler-rear end Michael Bloomberg, either. Nope, just that her own constituents are ignorant. I know the outpouring of mawkish self-pity from the usual suspects kind of obscures this fact, but the simplest and best explanation for the recalls succeeding is that small high-intensity groups in low turnout elections can win on issues even when the voting public as a whole is opposed. That's how the pro-recall campaign won, despite Coloradans favoring universal background checks 68 to 27. Democrats were able to oust a bunch of Republican state senators in Wisconsin in an off year, but couldn't do the same to Walker in an election that was way more prominent. Expect common-sense gun safety laws to show up as a prominent platform in 2016, where the gun nut vote can't count on low turnout to beat it back. SedanChair posted:Bloomberg is definitely a puppet master, or at least he wishes he was. That was such a whiff from Media Matters. That you believe a common anti-semitic trope is true does not make it anything other than a common anti-semitic trope.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 05:50
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:Expect common-sense gun safety laws to show up as a prominent platform in 2016, where the gun nut vote can't count on low turnout to beat it back. The issue will no doubt show up in 2014, then 2016. There will also be more record-setting sales during those years. It will be a great time to flip guns & ammo!
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 07:00
|
|
|
Sancho posted:The issue will no doubt show up in 2014, then 2016. There will also be more record-setting sales during those years. It will be a great time to flip guns & ammo! It's been a great time for that since about September/October 2008. The big ammo shortage beginning around early 2009 was both hilarious and disconcerting. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Sep 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 07:02
|
|
|
Sancho posted:The issue will no doubt show up in 2014, then 2016. There will also be more record-setting sales during those years. It will be a great time to flip guns & ammo! Gun nuts' racial hysteria will no doubt drive record gun and ammo sales up till 2016, as they hoard ammo to shoot the Kenyan usurper's secret ACORN/Black Panther army. After that, however, it remains to be seen if their misogyny can sustain the sort of panicked buying that their racism has. Regardless, every election cycle reinforces the dynamic where right-wingers double down on culture war and dog whistle issues like guns to keep turnout levels up amongst their own grassroots, while simultaneously alienating the rest of the electorate a little bit more. Younger voters are much more supportive on gun safety, just like they're more liberal on a wide range of social and economic issues. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Sep 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 08:56
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:Gun nuts' racial hysteria will no doubt drive record gun and ammo sales up till 2016, as they hoard ammo to shoot the Kenyan usurper's secret ACORN/Black Panther army. After that, however, it remains to be seen if their misogyny can sustain the sort of panicked buying that their racism has. Regardless, every election cycle reinforces the dynamic where right-wingers double down on culture war and dog whistle issues like guns to keep turnout levels up amongst their own grassroots, while simultaneously alienating the rest of the electorate a little bit more. Younger voters are much more supportive on gun safety, just like they're more liberal on a wide range of social and economic issues. Don't you mean gun control, not gun safety?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 13:30
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:Don't you mean gun control, not gun safety? Quiet, you're ruining his reframing attempt.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 13:34
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:Don't you mean gun control, not gun safety? Similarly when people talk about traffic safety they're really talking about traffic control. Statists, rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of controlling our right to travel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 14:21
|
|
|
menino posted:Similarly when people talk about traffic safety they're really talking about traffic control. Statists, rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of controlling our right to travel. Nice try, but gun safety is an actual distinct thing, and nothing close to what gun control activists use it for.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 15:02
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:Nice try, but gun safety is an actual distinct thing, and nothing close to what gun control activists use it for. Gun control is a major component of gun safety.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 15:07
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:Gun nuts' racial hysteria will no doubt drive record gun and ammo sales up till 2016, as they hoard ammo to shoot the Kenyan usurper's secret ACORN/Black Panther army. After that, however, it remains to be seen if their misogyny can sustain the sort of panicked buying that their racism has. Regardless, every election cycle reinforces the dynamic where right-wingers double down on culture war and dog whistle issues like guns to keep turnout levels up amongst their own grassroots, while simultaneously alienating the rest of the electorate a little bit more. Younger voters are much more supportive on gun safety, just like they're more liberal on a wide range of social and economic issues. I'd prefer the Democrats dropped the issue, not because I'm worried about my guns but because I'd like to vote for them and for them to win.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 15:45
|
|
|
If you want an in-depth look into the way gun enthusiasts see themselves and their guns you need to listen to this song in its entirety. I think a lot of the pro gun control people have a hard time empathizing / understanding where they are coming from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiuL9-ZKYgA Highly recommend you listen to this to get some perspective. It really is a difference in how the two sides perceive themselves and the world. You can call it paranoia or delusional or whatever, but there is a fundamental bridge in perception that neither side is going to break through using statistics. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Sep 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 16:37
|
|
|
menino posted:Gun control is a major component of gun safety. No, the safe handling of a firearm is a major component of gun safety. Gun control activists began trying to coopt the term when gun control became toxic politically.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 16:51
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:No, the safe handling of a firearm is a major component of gun safety. Gun control activists began trying to coopt the term when gun control became toxic politically. How safe is the average Australian from gun violence? What factors do you believe impacted this?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 17:36
|
|
|
Oh FFS, gfanikf is talking about gun safety from a gun owned by a non-lunatic while the rest of you are talking about keeping guns out of the hands of spree-killers. Gun chat is awful and has nothing to do with the 2014 elections.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 17:44
|
|
|
^ White Identity and white nationalism and theirintersection with gun culture is pretty relevant to an off year election given that these are going to be the only elections that GOP is going to win for a while. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If you want an in-depth look into the way gun enthusiasts see themselves and their guns you need to listen to this song in its entirety. I think a lot of the pro gun control people have a hard time empathizing / understanding where they are coming from. That's not really surprising. "Why don't you go bust them boys that's selling crack" isn't going to endear you to just about anybody. Seems to be a standard white nationalist sentiment. And check this out!: "That whole video showed what America is supposed to be and what it has been, The few of us that our left need to make sure we raise our children and house holds to retain this way of life." This is the second most popular comment, looks suspiciously like those 14 Words to me. I don't think these kind of people really warrant empathy or understanding, beyond as a tool to ensure the people they vote for get as little access to political power as possible. Especially if they're not going to be convinced through persuasion. As a gun owner, my beef isn't with gun ownership as a rule, it's just that it intersects with white nationalism rather often.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 17:55
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:Oh FFS, gfanikf is talking about gun safety from a gun owned by a non-lunatic while the rest of you are talking about keeping guns out of the hands of spree-killers. Gun chat is awful and has nothing to do with the 2014 elections. Yes, it's important to keep in mind that gun safety was only that was gun control activists only started to try and use in the last few years. Much like Democrats and certain Republicans claiming a strong belief in the Second Amendment Post Heller and McDonald, when before they all felt it only had to due with the militia and not an individual right. Dr.Zeppelin posted:How safe is the average Australian from gun violence? What factors do you believe impacted this? Statistically in a decline, much like in the United States over the past 30 years, for reasons having nothing to do with the availability of guns. menino posted:^ White nationalism?  Yes, I as a Jewish American find white identity and white nationalism heavily intertwined with my gun culture.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 18:09
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:White nationalism? Hey cool anecdote, keep them coming! If you'd like to point out where I said "100% of gun culture is white nationalism" please go ahead, I'll be waiting.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 18:12
|
|
|
menino posted:Hey cool anecdote, keep them coming! I'm not the one who made up some random stuff about white nationalism out of nowhere, with no evidence to actually support it. Considering how weak (or non-existent) your supporting evidence is, the fact I gave you even an anecdote as a response is being charitable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 18:14
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:Statistically in a decline, much like in the United States over the past 30 years, for reasons having nothing to do with the availability of guns. Ok, following the gun ban in Australia in 1996, gun-related homicides declined by 59% in a decade (http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf). Over the same period, gun-related homicides in the US declined by approximately 25% (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf#page=27). Let's pretend gun laws had nothing at all to do with it. What are these unspecified other reasons of yours and why were they over twice as effective in Australia?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2013 19:13
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:I'm not the one who made up some random stuff about white nationalism out of nowhere, with no evidence to actually support it. Considering how weak (or non-existent) your supporting evidence is, the fact I gave you even an anecdote as a response is being charitable. There's always a telling point when white liberals stop listening to Jews and people of color. It's when they don't support your argument any more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2013 00:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 08:18 |
|
|
Please do not debate gun control in the 2014 US Midterms thread.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2013 00:19
|
|
