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Probe 17 posted:I'm gonna be entirely honest, while I do agree to some extent, the problem is that you can't honestly just have an ending like "hey, let's literally become Cowboy Rapture" and make every ending ever free ice cream and blowjobs. Well the "getting rid of law & order" thing is pretty much my main thing against the Independent ending too. Just because you're kicking out the old guard doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to make Nevada an ancap paradise. I just wish that the Independent path were the main one so that the various endings could more accurately reflect both how you'd dealt with the various factions in game, as well as the varying amount of power your character might be able to weild over them.
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Aug 10, 2014 08:09
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Ernie Muppari posted:Well the "getting rid of law & order" thing is pretty much my main thing against the Independent ending too. Just because you're kicking out the old guard doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to make Nevada an ancap paradise. I just wish that the Independent path were the main one so that the various endings could more accurately reflect both how you'd dealt with the various factions in game, as well as the varying amount of power your character might be able to weild over them. I get what you're saying, but I seriously disagree. Indy Vegas is already the "well with MY courier, everything is perfect forever  " ending with no support. If going pure Good actually let you make the Mojave perfect, why bother with the factions - just railroad you into Good or Dickhead like Fallout 3 does.
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Aug 10, 2014 08:28
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Byzantine posted:I get what you're saying, but I seriously disagree. Indy Vegas is already the "well with MY courier, everything is perfect forever Well I'm not saying that everything would be good forever, just that if you've got an army of armybots and several heavily armed groups of people allied with you, that it's weird for drugged up raiders to be a threat, or groups which you've ostensibly forged strong ties with to decide they'd rather just stop interacting with the rest of the Mojave again. There's plenty of room for stuff like the original endings for Junktown, or most of the Vault City/Gecko/Redding/New Reno type gray endings in a hypothetical "good" independent ending for New Vegas.
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Aug 10, 2014 09:20
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Hey rope kid, I have a question about Honest Hearts if you've got the time. How did you want players to react to Daniel? I seem to remember you linking a clip from The Mission when this was discussed long ago (and btw that's a great choice for inspiration and I wish more game writers than you took cues from palme d'or winners) but I didn't feel like Daniel was a Father Gabriel character; he came across as kinda flippant toward the Zion natives' belief system ("Tribals are smart but... well, they're ignorant"). You said previously that you already knew most people would side with Joshua; I get that. I'm just curious if you wanted Daniel to come off as 100% reasonable, the peaceful alternative to Graham, or if you intended him to sound kinda lofty and distant.
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Aug 10, 2014 10:06
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I'd ask the same thing but replace 'Lofty and Distant' with 'Condescending and Arrogant'.
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Aug 10, 2014 10:20
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I don't really agree that defeat maps to the NCR learning the value of peace, or such like. From the NCR's perspective, the reason for their defeat would be them signing a treaty with House, who then sucked manpower and money away from him and finally backstabbed them. The lesson the NCR might well learn, instead of tolerating other states like House, is to never sign agreements with them but instead crush them while they can. And to grow the army, so as to never get into the situation where they can't take on the Legion and House simultaneously. It's not like Germany learned that war is bad after WWI, for example. I also don't agree that the NCR should accept the existence of states like the Legion. If the NCR don't attack the Legion, the Legion will attack the NCR instead. It would be a pretty drat bad idea to leave groups like that alone to get more powerful. In a NCR victory, several groups do retain independence (assuming you do the quests the right way) so it's not like they don't learn the lesson that allies can be helpful and don't have to be annexed. A rather opposite lesson would be learned if those groups were to have backstabbed the NCR in the final reckoning...
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Aug 10, 2014 11:59
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:Has there really been any proof that Lakelurks treat women as nothing more than food other than the word of a few people throughout the wasteland that are clearly biased against them? I really think you guys are just misunderstanding them. 
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Aug 10, 2014 14:27
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The best way to be a dick with House is support the NCR in all quests, only to turn around and lead House's forces to victory in the end. Almost every single town gets dicked over by NCR having to pull out suddenly. 
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Aug 10, 2014 15:07
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Ernie Muppari posted:Well the "getting rid of law & order" thing is pretty much my main thing against the Independent ending too. Just because you're kicking out the old guard doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to make Nevada an ancap paradise. I just wish that the Independent path were the main one so that the various endings could more accurately reflect both how you'd dealt with the various factions in game, as well as the varying amount of power your character might be able to weild over them. I think the Independent ending should have had you going around recruiting sheriffs for the various towns like you did for Primm. That way you can give the game some idea of the direction you wanted everything to go, while remaining thematically appropriate. I thought choosing Primm's sheriff was a pretty cool little choice.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:12
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Fangz posted:I don't really agree that defeat maps to the NCR learning the value of peace, or such like.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:21
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Wolfsheim posted:Actually, if we're doing this, from most to least moral: 
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Aug 10, 2014 15:35
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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The most moral part about Ulysses was the part where he commanded a murderous tribe to slaughter all non-combatants incl. elderly and children and pretty much caused the entirety of Honest Hearts to happen Never not kill Ulysses
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Aug 10, 2014 15:37
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I always thought that it was a little weird that most of the "independent" settlements don't really have any sort of government. You can give Primm a sheriff, but where's the structure to lay down laws to enforce? There's Jeannie May in Novac, but she just runs the hotel, she's not really a leader. Goodsprings is basically lawless.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:42
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Dean Domino is probably the most malicious bastard in the franchise, and that's saying something
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Aug 10, 2014 15:53
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Trudy's sort of the sheriff/mayor of Goodsprings. Novac doesn't have any government because it's less a town than it is a loose collection of scrubs who like to loot the local ruins. I kind of like how informal places like that are, but really they need some kind of rough tough badass posse if they're going to last long in Deathclaw And Bandit World.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:56
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Novac has ranger Andy and Boone/other sniper, effectively NCR
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Aug 10, 2014 15:59
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:The most moral part about Ulysses was the part where he commanded a murderous tribe to slaughter all non-combatants incl. elderly and children and pretty much caused the entirety of Honest Hearts to happen I was joking but finding all his tapes and talking it out with him, then holding the nuke silo with him against the Marked Men's final assault was amazing. I felt like he was completely consistent and not at all hypocritical which is rare in the series, even if he's totally misguided. So in a weird sense, he is better than the other factions. Except for the genocide, I mean. Manic_Misanthrope posted:Dean Domino is probably the most malicious bastard in the franchise, and that's saying something I never saved him in the casino. I kept meaning to but I hated him so much every time. You have to be his Yes Man. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Curtain_Call_at_the_Tampico posted:In order to avoid killing Dean, the player MUST agree with working for Dean in their initial meeting, otherwise the player will 'insult his ego'. Any kind of confrontational speech with him should be avoided throughout the add-on, this includes telling him about the bomb collar.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:32
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DeusExMachinima posted:I was joking but finding all his tapes and talking it out with him, then holding the nuke silo with him against the Marked Men's final assault was amazing. I felt like he was completely consistent and not at all hypocritical which is rare in the series, even if he's totally misguided. So in a weird sense, he is better than the other factions. Except for the genocide, I mean. This is what I do. But then, redemption (or at least an attempt at it) is my favorite kind of character arc.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:44
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anime tupac posted:Hey rope kid, I have a question about Honest Hearts if you've got the time. How did you want players to react to Daniel? I seem to remember you linking a clip from The Mission when this was discussed long ago (and btw that's a great choice for inspiration and I wish more game writers than you took cues from palme d'or winners) but I didn't feel like Daniel was a Father Gabriel character; he came across as kinda flippant toward the Zion natives' belief system ("Tribals are smart but... well, they're ignorant"). You said previously that you already knew most people would side with Joshua; I get that. I'm just curious if you wanted Daniel to come off as 100% reasonable, the peaceful alternative to Graham, or if you intended him to sound kinda lofty and distant. Joshua refuses to tell Follows-Chalk whether or not he should visit the outside world. He admits that the kid needs guidance, but he doesn't want to have too much control over Follows' life, because he thinks that's dangerous. Daniel, on the other hand, refuses to tell Waking Cloud that her husband is dead because he patronisingly assumes that she can't be trusted to keep it together. He's quite happy to have a total monopoly of control over her life, without ever questioning the fact that he's treating her like an idiot child in spite of her obvious intelligence and courage. It's all there in the parallel sidequests, man. Intentionally or not (I assume intentionally, because good writers, etc), I think Daniel consistently comes across as a mean-spirited, superior, sermonising little hypocrite.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:44
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DeusExMachinima posted:I never saved him in the casino. I kept meaning to but I hated him so much every time. You have to be his Yes Man. And this is why you should never believe everything on wikis. There's ONE speech check in the initial conversation with Dean that causes him to turn on you. (It's the "Barter: You seem to believe you're in a position of strength" line.) You can do anything else with him (exhaust all his conversation options, take all his secret stashes with him present, shoot him in the goddamned head a couple times) and he'll still be fine in the Tampico. It's that line, and that line ONLY, that pisses him off. Surely you can avoid a single speech challenge, right? Unless you just up and shot him yourself in the theater. In which case, you're some kinda psychotic bastard that kills people without a trial just because you perceive them to be "evil." You horrible murderer you.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:58
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I'm not sure if this got asked earlier and I just missed it, but what could be considered a good "break point" for skills like Science where it's not really worth putting more points in for what you get out? I almost always play high Int characters (my last one was 9 Int with an implant before level 2, so by the end I was putting points into skills I barely used, even with JSawyer's lower level cap) but I'm doing a build with only average Int this time, and I don't want to stretch myself too thin on fun skills like Guns because I've put everything into Lockpicking.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:23
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Do a run where you put 0 points into lockpicking and science. They're not necessary skills. (Lockpicking more so, science is useful for Energy Weapons characters)
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Aug 10, 2014 17:31
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Even with 6 int you'll have more than enough skill points to max everything you want unless you cap your level at lvl 35.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:38
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Dr Snofeld posted:I'm not sure if this got asked earlier and I just missed it, but what could be considered a good "break point" for skills like Science where it's not really worth putting more points in for what you get out? I almost always play high Int characters (my last one was 9 Int with an implant before level 2, so by the end I was putting points into skills I barely used, even with JSawyer's lower level cap) but I'm doing a build with only average Int this time, and I don't want to stretch myself too thin on fun skills like Guns because I've put everything into Lockpicking. I'm a perk whore. If I were you I would review the skill levels needed for certain must-have perks and go from there. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_perks
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Aug 10, 2014 17:38
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Dr Snofeld posted:I'm not sure if this got asked earlier and I just missed it, but what could be considered a good "break point" for skills like Science where it's not really worth putting more points in for what you get out? I almost always play high Int characters (my last one was 9 Int with an implant before level 2, so by the end I was putting points into skills I barely used, even with JSawyer's lower level cap) but I'm doing a build with only average Int this time, and I don't want to stretch myself too thin on fun skills like Guns because I've put everything into Lockpicking. You should at least get 80 so you can magazine your way out of any problem, I would say. After that I would save skill books until you get the perk that doubles your skill book gain, and slowly plink at it until you hit 100. Alternatively, if you can figure out what the highest Science speech check and try to hit that. Personally I refuse to fail a speech check in Fallout. I just refuse!
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Aug 10, 2014 17:44
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All the speech check failures are hilarious!
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Aug 10, 2014 17:47
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You dont double the number of points you get from skill books. It increases the number of points by one, from three to four.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:49
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SpookyLizard posted:You dont double the number of points you get from skill books. It increases the number of points by one, from three to four. Oh, I knew it was four but I always assumed it was doubled because I would never ever take a skill book without that perk, what are you crazy?? MrL_JaKiri posted:All the speech check failures are hilarious! I wouldn't know
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Aug 10, 2014 17:51
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You need to ~~let go~~
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Aug 10, 2014 18:00
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MrL_JaKiri posted:All the speech check failures are hilarious! They are. The "I'm here to clean the commander's quarters" speech fail in Fallout 2's Navarro base is still my favorite. MrL_JaKiri posted:You need to ~~let go~~ Spoken like someone who never had a perfect treasure horde in his Morrowind Telvanni faction house dungeon.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:08
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The Fat Swordsman posted:Unless you just up and shot him yourself in the theater. In which case, you're some kinda psychotic bastard that kills people without a trial just because you perceive them to be "evil." You horrible murderer you. I got a willing confession.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:47
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If you don't think letting Dean loose to go gently caress with the Omertas and the Chairmen would be at least somewhat amusing, I'm not sure what to tell you.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:50
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The Chairmen aren't that bad, and the Omertas... Well let's just say I have a tendency to return fire when I go in there. I'm not very fond of rape camps.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:52
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Best ending ever time here ok are you ready guys here you go: Give Followers Big Mountain tech with the Madre replicators and the seed cloners etc etc. Work out a deal between them and Brotherhood for food/security exchange, high five the King for not being a Terrible Shithead, iunno maybe do something with Yes Man but above all else: Using cool technology and Super Science™, the Followers now have a deathclaw security force. Because deathclaws are cool as hell. Then the Courier rides an uparmored mother deathclaw. It's upgradeable of course depending on your choices so like if you helped the Boomers, it's got missile launchers attached and a rear facing Fat Man. Lots of Brotherhood rep lets you strip down power armor for plate armor. Rip and tear some huge Legion guts at Cottonwood, swim over the river, continue Ripping and Tearing, and take a massive poo poo on Caesar. Lanius gets pissy but your deathclaw just picks him right up and rips him in twain in full view of the NCR because gently caress You this is how you kill a despot, then tosses his assorted bits down into the river. The Courier, having brought independence and tranquility the Mojave, gets to enjoy a quiet life with their deathclaw BFF. Thanks to food/water/medicine production with the Followers, people aren't dying over stupid poo poo anymore, trade is up, violence is down (the Brotherhood strolls into Fiend country and loving terminator walks all over their poo poo and flattens them in like four hours tops), and people just generally feel good about things. 
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Aug 10, 2014 20:19
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Capn Beeb posted:Using cool technology and Super Science™, the Followers now have a deathclaw security force. I think there's a mod that lets you do something like that with a deathclaw companion.
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Aug 10, 2014 20:29
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My real question is this: Why can't I command a robot army and side with the NCR? Courier's Robotic Security Co. becomes the new premier security company in the NCR. Rent out robots by the month. They'll guard your safes! Protect your homes! You hear about some cazadore nests near you? Rent a pack! Today! That's the most fan-ficcy i've ever gotten about new vegas endings.
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Aug 10, 2014 21:19
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xthetenth posted:The Chairmen aren't that bad, and the Omertas... Well let's just say I have a tendency to return fire when I go in there. I'm not very fond of rape camps. The Omertas have some of the best voice acting in the game, though! Can you really keep playing the game if you don't get to hear, "Cachino? Get the gently caress outta here."
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Aug 10, 2014 21:55
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Caufman posted:The Omertas have some of the best voice acting in the game, though! Can you really keep playing the game if you don't get to hear, "Cachino? Get the gently caress outta here." I like that the good ending to the Omertas questline involves putting the drug-addicted human-trafficker in charge, only because the alternative is letting his bosses launch a chemical weapons attack on the Strip. Fangz posted:I don't really agree that defeat maps to the NCR learning the value of peace, or such like. I think a lot of the House endgame dialogue suggests otherwise, as well as the fact that House is pretty annoyed if you've gotten enough bad NCR rep to the point that you can't rescue Kimball; he needs a convenient fall guy to redirect the NCR populace's ire. Plus, there's Hanlon's House/Yes Man endings, all of which point to the NCR brass getting the blame for loving up. Spoilers, obviously: quote:Despite distinguishing themselves during the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, the rangers' victory was short-lived due to the Courier's interference. Chief Hanlon personally directed the evacuation of the rangers to Mojave Outpost as they fell back into NCR territory. Bitter over the waste of life in the Mojave, Hanlon stepped down from his post. After a campaign in which he denounced Oliver's and Kimball's hawkish, imperialist ways, Hanlon was elected as the senator of Redding. quote:Although they performed admirably during NCR's defense of Hoover Dam, the rangers fell into decline soon after. With Hanlon's plot against the occupation exposed and Oliver denounced for losing Hoover Dam, many rangers were greeted coldly on their return home. Few openly blamed the rangers for Hanlon's treachery, but public and political support for the military as a whole quickly dwindled. quote:Due to the Courier's intervention, Chief Hanlon abandoned his plan to sabotage the defense of Hoover Dam. The rangers assisted the troopers admirably during the Legion's ill-fated attack. Though the Courier snatched victory from NCR, only General Oliver was blamed for the loss of Hoover Dam. Hanlon, exhausted after¹ a lifetime of service to the NCR, stepped down from his position in the rangers and retired to his ranch in Redding. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 22:41
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Wolfsheim posted:I like that the good ending to the Omertas questline involves murdering the entire casino.
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Aug 10, 2014 22:47
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Capn Beeb posted:Best ending ever time here ok are you ready guys here you go:
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