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rope kid posted:1H used to be, by far, the most favored style. The only thing we changed, IIRC, was its Accuracy bonus. Yes but you've made three indirect changes that really swing things the other way - additive damage calculation changes the game because crits no longer multiply all damage by * 1.5, all weapons do less damage than before (ranges were reduced) and there is no more percentile DR. This means that Accuracy is no longer the be-all-and-end-all Once DT is bypassed, two-handers do not suffer from massive damage reduction anymore and two-handers fare better against DR anyway Light and 1H weapons have slightly more trouble punching through DT Roguelike would be able to do more accurate calculations than me, but at best - the most you'll ever get out of 1H style is +15% damage between ACC-DEF = 0 and +5, at any point above or below that, that damage increase decreases because you're only getting either a 1% chance of +50% or a 1% chance of +100% if Accuracy is lower or higher than that. Two-Handed weapons, by default, deal ~25% more damage than 1H weapons do (11*1.25) & (16*1.25) gets you basically 2H standard damage, so by default - 2H is better. They attack at the same speed, and 2H deals more damage as a base, and that base is multiplicative rather than additive like the crit bonus - so that number benefits more from percentile increases to damage. Then there are the styles. Two-Handed Style gives a damage mult of x1.1 (or +10% damage), and One-Handed Style gives 20% Graze-to-Hit conversion. Grazes will, most of the time, have a 35% chance to occur, so that 20% has a 7% chance of occuring (0.2 * 0.35). Converting a graze to a hit only gives a +50% increase to damage and doesn't remove miss chance, so it is flat out worse than a point in accuracy all the time. On top of that, when I use the style in game - I just feel like I'm attacking slowly, strugging against even moderate DR and just in general being mediocre. I would love to use a 1H style build in game, but right now it just doesn't seem worth it. I don't really care how it's done, but I don't see increasing the speed as a problem - sure it might make it 'more indistinguishable' from Two Weapon Style but currently it's the same speed as 2H style, so one could argue that it's 'a bit indistinguishable from 2H style' other than being weaker than it. I don't think having an attack rate in between both styles would be more confusing either, I just see that as the most viable way of improving it. Sensuki fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 02:44
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Haven't played the beta. Can you make a two-handed no armor fighter in this game? I made one in Dragon Age: Origins and it owned.
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Mar 18, 2015 02:44
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Yea sure why not. Do it with a monk so your wounds feed your abilities.
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Mar 18, 2015 02:56
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Do it with a Barbarian so you can have every swing of your giant sword splash damage on all enemies nearby. (And take stealth so you can be Conan)
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Mar 18, 2015 02:59
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CommissarMega posted:The obvious solution is to go for full-on Soldier specialization and turn into a Landsknecht: War was pimpin' back in those days.
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Mar 18, 2015 02:59
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Drifter posted:So to fix that you would do...what, ideally? That kinda sucks (and seems silly) that there's this whole combat option that is inferior to the degree you describe. Like, there are one-handed (not S&B) abilities you can level up and select, right? It's not that bad. You get + 10 accuracy, how much that helps depends on your accuracy deflection difference. If it's a normal difference the weapon style, will have 30% chance to make a difference. I think increasing the accuracy bonus would help. The problem is the talent it only gives you a 20 % graze to hit chance, that talent hae only a chance of 7 %(and it only decreases if you have too high/low accuracy) to activate and will increase the damage + 50%. Now compare that to the x1.1 damage of two handed, the + 10 deflection bonus and the + 20 % attack speed of dual wielding. prometheus12345 fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 03:02
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Sensuki posted:I don't really care how it's done, but I don't see increasing the speed as a problem - sure it might make it 'more indistinguishable' from Two Weapon Style but currently it's the same speed as 2H style, so one could argue that it's 'a bit indistinguishable from 2H style' other than being weaker than it. I don't think having an attack rate in between both styles would be more confusing either, I just see that as the most viable way of improving it.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:09
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Damnit. Good answers to my Duelist question. The only problem now is that I'll probably have to make a few characters to start, before I find one that fits what I have in mind. I prided myself on thinking, "Heh, look at all these fools, being stuck because of all the cool characters they can possibly make! I shall just make the one true character, which is duelist, and be correct in all things  " but now I have the same problem as you guys.why you gotta go and make a cool game ropekid
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Mar 18, 2015 03:12
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I can look at 1H again but,Sensuki posted:Then there are the styles. Two-Handed Style gives a damage mult of x1.1 (or +10% damage), and One-Handed Style gives 20% Graze-to-Hit conversion. Grazes will, most of the time, have a 35% chance to occur, so that 20% has a 7% chance of occuring (0.2 * 0.35). Converting a graze to a hit only gives a +50% increase to damage and doesn't remove miss chance, so it is flat out worse than a point in accuracy all the time. Some of the QA guys specifically do "conversion" builds, but I don't really want that to be the entire basis of a viable weapon style.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:13
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rope kid posted:I can look at 1H again but, Yeah that would be nice IMO. Change must have been made post-v480. 30% sounds alright, and yeah I hadn't figured DR into the equation.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:15
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ceaselessfuture posted:Damnit. Good answers to my Duelist question. Normally in this type of game I just roll a Mage and call it a day (even in baldurs gate) but in Poe I actually tried out a bunch of the classes so kudos for making all the classes genuinely interesting.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:17
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So in the end the difference between 1 handed style and 2 is that 1 should have much more consistent damage as you will have less grazes?
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Mar 18, 2015 03:17
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grrarg posted:That is something I never understood, not having played the beta. Using a 2h versus a single 1h looks like a no-brainer when the 2h does more damage and is not slower. It seems like the comparison is even less favorable when you add in the loss of offhand stats and the weapon style differences.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:17
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ceaselessfuture posted:Damnit. Good answers to my Duelist question. Heh, I'm still super torn over making a Chanter or a Ranger. On one hand, I love Bards and playing a Bard who is a skald sounds awesome. One the other hand I can have a pet Lion. So, yeah. Probably gonna flip a coin.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:18
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Hand Row posted:So in the end the difference between 1 handed style and 2 is that 1 should have much more consistent damage as you will have less grazes?
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Mar 18, 2015 03:20
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rope kid posted:Any property of a weapon that is related to it making an attack will occur less frequently when dual-wielding compared to single-wielding or weapon & shield. What's the formula for that? (for posterity/wiki)
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Mar 18, 2015 03:20
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Zore posted:
Goddamnit, that does sound good. Has anyone tried a melee Chanter? Spellsword-style character? I think in the last thread people were talking about Bard tanks being sweet, but what about one that's a little more proactive?
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Mar 18, 2015 03:24
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I didnt really like Divinity: Original Sin because it was too easy and the writing and story sort of blew, I didn't like the new Dragon Age because my mind got incredibly scattered by quest overload in Act 2 and my OCD wont let me finish it. The same sort of thing happened with BG2 (when I was a kid, mind you). My favorite RPG is planescape torment. Will I like this?
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Mar 18, 2015 03:27
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It's just based on attack frequency. Over 18 seconds, with no armor penalty, two standard weapons making 1 second attacks with 1 second recoveries will make 5 attacks each. 0 Sec - Weapon A 2 Sec - Weapon B 4 Sec - Weapon A 6 Sec - Weapon B 8 Sec - Weapon A 10 Sec - Weapon B 12 Sec - Weapon A 14 Sec - Weapon B 16 Sec - Weapon A 18 Sec - Weapon B Using just one weapon, you should see this: 0 Sec - Weapon A 2.5 Sec - Weapon A 5 Sec - Weapon A 7.5 Sec - Weapon A 10 Sec - Weapon A 12.5 Sec - Weapon A 15 Sec - Weapon A 17.5 Sec - Weapon A In the same amount(ish) of time, Weapon A makes 5 attacks when dual-wielded, 8 attacks when single-wielded. So if you have a property like "Stunning" on a weapon, it's going to have more chances to go off simply because that weapon is making more frequent attacks.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:30
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ceaselessfuture posted:Goddamnit, that does sound good. I think generally people load Chanters with heavier armor and melee because their chants aren't affected by negative armor effects. Their best abilities take a while to warm up and even then it can be things like summoning so not sure how truly proactive they can be.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:35
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:I didnt really like Divinity: Original Sin because it was too easy and the writing and story sort of blew, I didn't like the new Dragon Age because my mind got incredibly scattered by quest overload in Act 2 and my OCD wont let me finish it. The same sort of thing happened with BG2 (when I was a kid, mind you). My favorite RPG is planescape torment. Will I like this? This game is appropriately challenging on higher difficulties and the writing is top-notch, from what I've seen in the beta. The quest structure is probably a lot like BG2, though, so if having a lot of open quests in your journal/quest log bothers you then you might be in trouble.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:38
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Is there a difference in casting time / cooldown of spells/skills depending on what kind of weapon (1-h, 2-h, dual wield etc.) a character's using?
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Mar 18, 2015 03:41
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rope kid posted:Using just one weapon, you should see this: In the game, it *looks like* 1H and 2H have a 60 frame recovery. In a frame-by-frame video, I'm capturing 54 frames of recovery but there are probably dropped frames. I believe in the code, the formula for recovery penalty still includes the animation length as well. Your old chart indicated that 2H has a 30 frame animation, 30 frame recovery and 30 frame recovery penalty from the 2H recovery penalty. Sensuki fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 03:42
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I want to make the following party: 1. Brock Sampson - Barbarian - specializes in knife/daggers, licensed to kill 2. Rusty Venture - Rogue - failed 3. Hank Venture - Monk - totally Batman 4. Dean Venture - Chanter - Trianna probably thinks poetry and skeletons are sexy.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:59
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Litany Unheard posted:This game is appropriately challenging on higher difficulties and the writing is top-notch, from what I've seen in the beta. It was more in Dragon Age what seemed like a billion meaningless fetch quests
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Mar 18, 2015 04:03
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So I know my BG and my IWD. Do I start on hard mode, or is that for when you understand the PoE systems.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:03
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TrueMenace from NeoGAF and I are planning on doing a comprehensive video series to introduce people to the systems who haven't played the beta. The idea is that after you watch those you should have no problem jumping straight in on Hard difficulty.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:09
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:It was more in Dragon Age what seemed like a billion meaningless fetch quests Ah, I haven't played Inquisition, but I heard something about that. Obsidian doesn't really do the "Collect twelve bear asses" kind of quests. Every quest in the backer beta has a plotline to it, whether short and sweet or long and involved. No meaningless grinding for drops. Evil Canadian posted:So I know my BG and my IWD. Do I start on hard mode, or is that for when you understand the PoE systems. Do what I did: start on Hard mode and just be ready to reload a lot until you have the systems down. Took me a couple of hours and that was in the beta which starts you at level 3 with a five-person party. Probably easier to learn if you get to start from the beginning with a fresh character.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:13
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:I didnt really like Divinity: Original Sin because it was too easy and the writing and story sort of blew, I didn't like the new Dragon Age because my mind got incredibly scattered by quest overload in Act 2 and my OCD wont let me finish it. The same sort of thing happened with BG2 (when I was a kid, mind you). My favorite RPG is planescape torment. Will I like this? D:OS was too easy? Whaaaat. I thought it was moderately challenging for the 20 hours I put into it, then again I'm no where near the end of the game... I had a hard drive crash and I just haven't mustered up the desire to start over yet, getting there though. I thought the story was pretty neat for what I saw of it and it had the great Larian humor all over the place.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:19
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^^^ - "Larian Humor" is to humor what creative writing students are when they try to write like Terry Pratchett.MOVIE MAJICK posted:It was more in Dragon Age what seemed like a billion meaningless fetch quests oh my Goooood all those stupid loving questssssssss 
Drifter fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 04:20
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I read a fuckton for a my living. If I have to read a lot in my relaxing hobbies, it better be good On a related note, is there going to be voice acting?
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Mar 18, 2015 04:25
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Not extensively. Dyrford had one voiced character iirc
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Mar 18, 2015 04:26
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:I read a fuckton for a my living. If I have to read a lot in my relaxing hobbies, it better be good Minimal voice acting. Hardly any.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:26
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Drifter posted:^^^ - "Larian Humor" is to humor what creative writing students are when they try to write like Terry Pratchett. I thought the humor worked. 
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Mar 18, 2015 04:29
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About the 1h weapon against 2h weapon: if the enemy has 0 dr a 1h weapon is better than a 2h weapon if you have 30 or less accuracy as the enemies defense(e.g. you have 30 accuracy the enemy has 60 deflection). If the dr of the enemy is higher you seem to need a lot worse accuracy.(If you take the average damage of the two weapon styles). Fun fact if you increase the bonus to + 15 accuracy(the old value), you will need only the same accuracy or less as the enemies defense, to make 1h weapons stronger.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:32
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New buttons, removed the "StupidPanel" (c)BMac, and adjusted log texture (changing it is hard - need to bring this up post release)  prometheus12345 posted:About the 1h weapon against 2h weapon: if the enemy has 0 dr a 1h weapon is better than a 2h weapon if you have 30 or less accuracy as the enemies defense(e.g. you have 30 accuracy the enemy has 60 deflection). If the dr of the enemy is higher you seem to need a lot worse accuracy.(If you take the average damage of the two weapon styles). Fun fact if you increase the bonus to + 15 accuracy(the old value), you will need only the same accuracy or less as the enemies defense, to make 1h weapons stronger. The styles were balanced for 0 DR - that is part of the problem, as 0 DR does not come up very often at all. Sensuki fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 04:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:You might know [Tolkien] as a big influence on R.A. Salvatore.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:39
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Drifter posted:Minimal voice acting. Hardly any. I'm happy because voice acting in games with lots of dialogue can be horseshit bad
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Mar 18, 2015 04:41
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You mean you don- Of course, subt- But you can't ju- Bye.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:45
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Unless a game has particularly excellent voice acting or cinematic presentation, I just end up skipping most of it anyway. Reading is way faster.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:53
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