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api call girl posted:"Manning up" is kind of a trope of the genre. E: One thing that annoyed me about the movie's portrayal of the apes was that the frequent need for subtitles took away from reading the more subtle facial expressions of the apes, which in turn diminished one of the stronger technological and narrative elements of the film-the sense of immersion you felt into the lives of the apes. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 09:47
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It wasn't just the humans that undeveloped characters like the kid. Caesar's wife was very similar to the humans in that her presence reveals motivations of our main characters and moves the plot forward. This isn't a bad thing. If a filmmaker tries to do a full character study on every character, the plot is going to be weighed down. At the end of the day, this movie was about Caesar and Koba, and I think they were well developed. One other thing that has come to me with some more reflection is that I think Malcolm was foolish at the end of the movie. Even though he liked and cared for Caesar, he put his whole family and everyone he knows into jeopardy on a gamble.
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Jul 15, 2014 12:05
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He was trying to about a war, which would have put them in more danger. I don't know, I didn't particularly enjoy this one and I'm the biggest series fan I know. I did like the callbacks to the source material - terrible politician, underestimating the apes, the ape lieutenant who distrusted humans, forbidden zone, horses, etc. but the human cast was really disappointing and flat. Commissioner Gordon insisting that "they're just animals" was a good microcosm of this - he's seen them riding horses, heard them speaking, and watched then negotiate a border. But when the script calls for it, he forgets everything. Malcolm's goofy doofy face, the unnamed danger threatening the mysterious "teen," the rear end in a top hat who irrationally hated apes... It felt like everybody individually got a handful of traits and a weird shopping list of motivations, with no regard for how it worked in a broader context. And then stuff like the SF celebration over restored power ...that they already had and didn't know was in jeopardy. Contacting the military for no reason but prolonging the franchise, Donkey Kong, every ape having one distinct feature to distinguish the toys, machine guns horse fire charge, etc etc. It's obviously not the worst in the series, but it was probably among the least imaginative. It's message that hateful apes/people can undermine peace isn't especially innovative. And am I the only one reading crazy 9/11 troofer imagery? Koba's false flag attack, controlled demolition of the "human tower," the persecution of "true ape parrots," and Caesar having to get the troof out - it's like I was stuck at the wrong bus stop with a crazy person.
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Jul 15, 2014 12:43
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Should you watch Rise before seeing this?
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Jul 15, 2014 12:46
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rizuhbull posted:Should you watch Rise before seeing this? Yeah
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Jul 15, 2014 13:01
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rizuhbull posted:Should you watch Rise before seeing this? Absolutely. You really have no reason not to anyway, it's great.
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Jul 15, 2014 13:54
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I thought the "he'd be less safe in the city" comment regarding Malcolm's son was made after the Human/Ape staredown at the gates, and was referring to the fact that if things went bad and war broke out, he wouldn't be any better off. I may be misremembering the timing on that, however.moths posted:And then stuff like the SF celebration over restored power ...that they already had and didn't know was in jeopardy. My understanding was that they had gas generators running, which presumably were only powering the most critical systems. When the dam was up and running again ALL the lights came on, so it would have been noticeable and worthy of celebration in SF.
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Jul 15, 2014 14:03
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I suppose that makes sense, but stuff like the iPod charger working being a surprise (while the lights were on) works against that idea. It's a minor quibble, but contributes to the overall cobbled-together feel. I suppose you'd need a dam to power a radio transmitter? That made sense, but don't shortwave / HAM operators talk across continents off house current?
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Jul 15, 2014 14:14
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moths posted:I suppose that makes sense, but stuff like the iPod charger working being a surprise (while the lights were on) works against that idea. It's a minor quibble, but contributes to the overall cobbled-together feel. I didn't read Oldman's expression as being surprised when the Ipod completed charging, more apprehensive in an "Oh God I'm about to see pictures of my dead kids that I haven't been able to look at in <however long>". I thought it worked fine for the bittersweet moment that it was. I really don't know much about how much power those radio transmitters use, I just mentally wrote it off as something they didn't want to burn too much gas-reserve electricity on since they didn't know if they would find any other survivors or not. A lot of these things boil down to the fact that we weren't given a lot of detailed backstory on the human settlement in favor of keeping the spotlight on the apes, which I thought was a good thing on the balance.
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Jul 15, 2014 14:48
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moths posted:I don't know, I didn't particularly enjoy this one and I'm the biggest series fan I know. I did like the callbacks to the source material - terrible politician, underestimating the apes, the ape lieutenant who distrusted humans, forbidden zone, horses, etc. but the human cast was really disappointing and flat. Commissioner Gordon insisting that "they're just animals" was a good microcosm of this - he's seen them riding horses, heard them speaking, and watched then negotiate a border. But when the script calls for it, he forgets everything. All else aside, regarding outgroups as animals is hardly a novel idea when they are human, let alone when they aren't.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:07
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DeimosRising posted:All else aside, regarding outgroups as animals is hardly a novel idea when they are human, let alone when they aren't. Even better, Caesar himself says as much at the end, but the shift is sympathetic. This kind of outgrouping is inevitable when someone goes beyond the pale.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:09
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If anything they paralleled that with the "you are not an ape" line, but that strikes me more as coincidence than intent. Efb
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Jul 15, 2014 15:10
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penismightier posted:Have you considered the possibility that you, personally, are the stupid audience? I hadn't, actually. But if it makes you feel better then by all means consider me part of the stupid audience. All I know is I'm not the one sperging over a minor detail in a movie that's not trying to pretend to be highbrow cinema. I acknowledge that it isn't a perfect movie and it has its fair share of flaws, but the dorky brooding teenager is a minor one. Relax, guy.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:37
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moths posted:If anything they paralleled that with the "you are not an ape" line, but that strikes me more as coincidence than intent. Why? Seems pretty clear cut, I mean if we all noticed you think no one on the production did? As our sympathies are directed to the apes, we naturally go oh no outgrouping bad, why can't everyone be friends? but then our impulse is to agree with Caesar when he does it to Koba. That tension is pretty key to the movie.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:06
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It read more like a tacked-on zinger for killing The Bad Guy in a summer blockbuster than Caesar's honest re-evaluation of the only law upon which the fledgling ape civilization is founded. I'd buy it if there were buildup or reflection on it, but as it stands it comes across as action movie chatter rather than real character growth. Chatter that coincides with another less likely intentional line about how the magical talking ape people are just animals, and really only works drawn entirely out of context and posted in a discussion forum.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:54
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I dunno, I had it in mind as a comparison before I read any interpretation of the film or reviews. Since 'what is man/what is animal' is, like, a big theme of the entire series.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:03
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"By executive order, Caesar hereby declares martial law so that Caesar may drop Koba from this building in retribution for the murder of Ash as well as the attempted murder of many other apes, including Caesar. As an aside, Caesar will amend the 'Apes don't kill Apes' law to cover future situations such as this once the current crises has passed." e: To be honest I'm more worried that they'll try to pull a "Koba didn't really die after all!" in the next movie, given that they devoted so much time to him ping-ponging around into things that may somehow break his fall. e2: I realized too late that I should have spoilered most of this post, as it relates to the ending. If you haven't seen the film be warned that the next few posts on this page quote my un-spoiler-tagged post. Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 17:11
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A better place to show that overlap would have been the awkward "good man... like you." We got a hint of it in "how like them we are," the film was more about machine guns than what it means to be a man in an ape's world or vice versa. It's a possible take away, but you'd have to be much more charitable to the production than I'm ready to be.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:11
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The Ape-triot Act.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:12
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:e: To be honest I'm more worried that they'll try to pull a "Koba didn't really die after all!" in the next movie, given that they devoted so much time to him ping-ponging around into things that may somehow break his fall. quote:We hear what sounds like an ape gasping for air and rubble shifting. Anne Frank Funk fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 17:30
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:e: To be honest I'm more worried that they'll try to pull a "Koba didn't really die after all!" in the next movie, given that they devoted so much time to him ping-ponging around into things that may somehow break his fall. In that interview I linked above, the co-writer of the film (and of the next film) definitively said that he thought of Koba as dead after the fall, shooting down the interviewer when he suggested it.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:37
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:e: To be honest I'm more worried that they'll try to pull a "Koba didn't really die after all!" in the next movie, given that they devoted so much time to him ping-ponging around into things that may somehow break his fall. I assumed that was just for the 3D.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:38
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I thought that the "ping-ponging" (great term, btw) was just to add devastation to the fall. Comical in a sense that it's what writers usually go for in cartoons like Wile E Coyote and Homer Simpson but in Apes it made the fall seem more brutal. I stayed until after the credits, as I normally do, and my buddy thought that the noises were a sign that Koba wasn't really dead. I hope that's not the case.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:52
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I have to say, I admire the film's restraint for never bringing up the Icarus. I was expecting that to be who they were talking to on the radio.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:54
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feedmyleg posted:In that interview I linked above, the co-writer of the film (and of the next film) definitively said that he thought of Koba as dead after the fall, shooting down the interviewer when he suggested it. Oh thank god. Gives me hope that the next film won't just be a rehash of this one. Edit: In retrospect, I realize that I really should have spoiler-tagged the stuff above relating to Koba's death. Could those who quoted me add the tags? Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 19:26
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http://io9.com/planet-of-the-apes-director-reveals-whats-next-for-the-1605444982 ...In really ambiguous terms. But still. I like the mention of a "generational story" cause I really want a good sized jump ahead in the timeline for the next one.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:50
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Late Unpleasantness posted:He'd worked at the dam. And to be fair, plumbers have a long history of hating and fearing apes. Well I'm glad Koba smashed his rear end either way. Dude was the most annoying heel character in a movie that I've watched in a while.
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Jul 16, 2014 00:08
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I loved Caesars "Son we need to talk" and Blue Eyes simultaneous eye-roll/shrug, it was so quintessentially teenager
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Jul 16, 2014 03:07
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What happened to the black guy who was working on the dam.
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Jul 16, 2014 13:08
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Anime Sandwich posted:What happened to the black guy who was working on the dam. I think he and the other guy who was playing the record at the 7-11 continued running after Malcolm & co. hid under the log. Presumably killed by the chimps that were chasing after them.
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Jul 16, 2014 13:38
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"(Buñuel) did so many films on the impossibility of sainthood. People trying to be good in ‘Viridiana’ and ‘Nazarin’, people trying to do their thing. In ‘The Weight’ it’s the same thing. People like Buñuel would make films that had these religious connotations to them but it wasn’t necessarily a religious meaning. In Buñuel there were these people trying to be good and it’s impossible to be good. In ‘The Weight’ it was this very simple thing. Someone says, ‘Listen, would you do me this favour? When you get there will you say “hello” to somebody or will you give somebody this or will you pick up one of these for me? Oh? You’re going to Nazareth, that’s where the Martin guitar factory is. Do me a favour when you’re there.’ This is what it’s all about. So the guy goes and one thing leads to another and it’s like ‘Holy poo poo, what’s this turned into? I’ve only come here to say “hello” for somebody and I’ve got myself in this incredible predicament.’ It was very Buñuelish to me at the time." -Robbie Robertson
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Jul 16, 2014 19:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:"(Buñuel) did so many films on the impossibility of sainthood. People trying to be good in ‘Viridiana’ and ‘Nazarin’, people trying to do their thing. In ‘The Weight’ it’s the same thing. People like Buñuel would make films that had these religious connotations to them but it wasn’t necessarily a religious meaning. In Buñuel there were these people trying to be good and it’s impossible to be good. In ‘The Weight’ it was this very simple thing. Someone says, ‘Listen, would you do me this favour? When you get there will you say “hello” to somebody or will you give somebody this or will you pick up one of these for me? Oh? You’re going to Nazareth, that’s where the Martin guitar factory is. Do me a favour when you’re there.’ This is what it’s all about. So the guy goes and one thing leads to another and it’s like ‘Holy poo poo, what’s this turned into? I’ve only come here to say “hello” for somebody and I’ve got myself in this incredible predicament.’ It was very Buñuelish to me at the time." You are planning on explaining why you bring this up in regards to this movie, right? This is one of my favorite quotes ever from a musician, if it really describes this movie somehow I'll have to see it post-haste.
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Jul 16, 2014 19:27
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Sprecherscrow posted:You are planning on explaining why you bring this up in regards to this movie, right? This is one of my favorite quotes ever from a musician, if it really describes this movie somehow I'll have to see it post-haste. The movie is mainly focused on the protagonists (human and ape) trying to do the right thing in precarious situations, all starting with a single rash decision, where that right choice is never clear. In that sense it reminded me more of Star Trek DS9 (the peril of collective racial judgements being another main them in both) than The Phantom Menace, as SMG brought up in the General Chat thread.
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Jul 16, 2014 19:38
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Lord Krangdar posted:The movie is about the protagonists (human and ape) trying to do the right thing in situations, all starting with a single brash decision, where that right choice is never clear. That's very loose and could apply to hundreds if not thousands of films. I'm assuming there's some specific reason (religious connotations, surrealism, a crazy dude named Chester) that he brought up that quote with regards to this move.
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Jul 16, 2014 19:41
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Sprecherscrow posted:That's very loose and could apply to hundreds if not thousands of films. I'm assuming there's some specific reason (religious connotations, surrealism, a crazy dude named Chester) that he brought up that quote with regards to this move. That's an aspect of many films, but in this one its the main focus pretty much the entire running time. And this time the ambiguity of the right choice is not really hand-waved away to make for a more satisfying or comfortable viewing experience. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 19:45
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Lord Krangdar posted:That's an aspect of many films, but in this one its the main focus pretty much the entire running time. And this time the ambiguity of the right choice is not really hand-waved away to make for a more satisfying or comfortable viewing experience. Okay, I'm sure that's part of it, but I would imagine he saw something specifically Buñuelian which would lead him to that quote. What you're saying is not making me want to see the movie as much as comparing it to the work of Buñuel. Simon of the Desert is one of my favorite films, the Buñuel comparison interests me.
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Jul 16, 2014 20:22
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Sprecherscrow posted:Okay, I'm sure that's part of it, but I would imagine he saw something specifically Buñuelian which would lead him to that quote. What you're saying is not making me want to see the movie as much as comparing it to the work of Buñuel. Simon of the Desert is one of my favorite films, the Buñuel comparison interests me. Okay, fair enough.
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Jul 16, 2014 20:24
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Sprecherscrow posted:That's very loose and could apply to hundreds if not thousands of films. I'm assuming there's some specific reason (religious connotations, surrealism, a crazy dude named Chester) that he brought up that quote with regards to this move. "The Weight" appears in a key scene in the film.
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Jul 16, 2014 21:07
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penismightier posted:"The Weight" appears in a key scene in the film. Ah, this puts it into better perspective. Well now I have to see it. Also, original or Aretha?
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Jul 16, 2014 21:14
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| # ? May 24, 2024 00:19 |
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Sprecherscrow posted:Ah, this puts it into better perspective. Well now I have to see it. Also, original or Aretha? Original. It's a great little scene!
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Jul 16, 2014 21:15
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