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Ceythos posted:Off topic - jeez, you're making me want to fire up Eq1 again A lot of code has been lost, at least it has been claimed so, by the current developers. For instance, the old Freeport, or how I prefer to call it, the Right Freeport. (I loving HATE that revamp more than anything else.) So yeah, the old AC or agro code is lost to the abyss too. And as you are probably recently aware, they're shutting down Vanguard. "Sunsetting," my rear end. I'm really sorry, it must hurt to see any project you worked on going away, and the code for it not being sold or given away. So we'll never see an emulated server like SWG has. You, Silius, and obviously Brad worked on it, so please accept my condolences and pass along that message to those two as well.
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Jan 25, 2014 01:00
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When I was working at SOE I primarily played Eq2 and Vanguard - every time I log in my old Eq1 sk I see the mountain of AA's and about 20 levels ahead of me and say, 'nope, not this time'.
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Node posted:A lot of code has been lost, at least it has been claimed so, by the current developers. For instance, the old Freeport, or how I prefer to call it, the Right Freeport. (I loving HATE that revamp more than anything else.) So yeah, the old AC or agro code is lost to the abyss too. Glad I was never around for the revamped Freeport. It will always be a fond place for me. Was hurt when Cazic Thule was redone as a higher level dungeon though. Anyway tossed 45bux at the KS to support the niche market of social, more hardcore gameplay hopefully without the everyone's a winner mentality. Good luck guys. Need some game to play with Utnayan again.
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Jan 25, 2014 01:49
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Hey brad you might be able to pick up like 5 or 10 more people from vanguard shutting down.
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Jan 25, 2014 01:55
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If anyone from Visionary is still monitoring the boards here, do you happen to have an estimate as to when the official boards will be up?
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Jan 25, 2014 01:58
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Third World Reggin posted:Hey brad you might be able to pick up like 5 or 10 more people from vanguard shutting down. haha!  Hopefully several hundred, if not over a thousand. Still a sad day. RIP Vanguard, it was a tough 7 years, but not many MMOs can claim to be around for that long. -Brad
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Jan 25, 2014 02:16
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G Prestige posted:If anyone from Visionary is still monitoring the boards here, do you happen to have an estimate as to when the official boards will be up? Some time after KS. Can't really say when at this point.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:19
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Aradune posted:haha! Sorry they're killing off one of your games. At least you still have a new passion project now. Funny thing was I just downloaded Vanguard last week to give it a shot. Guess I was way late on that one.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:23
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iminers posted:Brad? Hello? Can you confirm this? Are you still here sir? What the site says is what it means... did I miss something?
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Jan 25, 2014 02:26
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Two-Shield Wielding Crusader sold me on this game. I'm known in my circle of friends for bitching about every rpg that I can't do that in every time I pick up a shield. I've been waiting for this day.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:31
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Ceythos posted:About the AC or aggro code - I don't know about it myself, but TBH it'll probably be hard to get someone 'in the know' on it since it's an emu of their product (not that they'd want to deny helping perhaps, but professionally they probably have to say they oppose it, if that makes sense). Oh yeah I get that, I was just being silly -- although you can imagine AC and Aggro being off makes Everquest way more interesting for casters and tanks in groups. Spell aggro definitely works on that server and lots of people still yell at Warriors for not taunting. Node posted:A lot of code has been lost, at least it has been claimed so, by the current developers. For instance, the old Freeport, or how I prefer to call it, the Right Freeport. (I loving HATE that revamp more than anything else.) So yeah, the old AC or agro code is lost to the abyss too. Oh man, the new Freeport made me want to cry. I saw it last year and felt dirty afterward. Freeport is one of the best designed cities in any MMO and I can't believe what they did to it (I loved Wild West/Dirty city feeling, and the way in which the Paladins and the Militia were at war with each other). Also I have this theory that MMOs die when they start to go back to their old original content and 'revamp' it. dichloroisocyanuric posted:Two-Shield Wielding Crusader sold me on this game. I'm known in my circle of friends for bitching about every rpg that I can't do that in every time I pick up a shield. I've been waiting for this day. One of the old SNES Final Fantasy games lets you be a Viking with 2 shields. It is hilarious how little damage the boss mobs hit you with.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:45
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The most recent game I know if where you can do it is Dark Souls, but there are a small few good rpgs (especially some really old jrpgs like FF and Phantasy Star) where you can.
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Jan 25, 2014 06:19
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Well, I am going to be trying to finish my VG itches before the game gets "sunsetted". When I said "I'm in" a couple pages back, yes, I signed up for the kickstarter for the level where folks think I'm crazy (which I might be, but "shut up and take my money again", basically).
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Jan 25, 2014 09:04
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:Two-Shield Wielding Crusader sold me on this game. I'm known in my circle of friends for bitching about every rpg that I can't do that in every time I pick up a shield. I've been waiting for this day. This. Hell yes. I'm gonna hold so much aggro. Bring it.
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Jan 25, 2014 15:14
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This sold me, hands down. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/728944 quote:How will we accomplish this? By reaching into the past, and looking at games like EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, and Final Fantasy XI, and focusing on fewer abilities, and a slower pace of combat. quote:Skill Chains and Sympathetics FFXI is my favourite MMO. Skillchains were my favourite part of combat. Hell yes. G Prestige fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 21:33
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G Prestige posted:This sold me, hands down. Vanguard had a similar system like this if I remember correctly, although it was just with your player, it didn't involve synchronizing with others. That sounds pretty cool. Slower combat is something I like as well. I hope it means it is more tactical, and if you make a mistake, you can see it coming, and likewise if you do something correctly.
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Jan 25, 2014 23:06
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I loved the concept of skill chains and positional skills, like DAOC used, in theory. In reality they were very much latency sensitive and added to the frustration if there was anything causing syncing issues or latency and DAOC was a latency inducing beast with it's RvR system which was usually whoever brought the most people won. Hopefully the new technology makes it more feasible to do now.
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Jan 26, 2014 03:41
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I remember starting EQ in 1999 because my brother was playing this game, and I wanted to hang out with him (I was 14 at the time). He ended up stopping at level 16 (poor neglected gnome magician), I continued to play my erudite enchanter and ended up meeting one of my irl best friends through that game. Now I'm twice that age and see you starting on a new game! I pledged $45 - you're the first kickstarter I've ever pledged for. I really hope there will be an enchanter-type class! That is something MMOs are really missing. edit: I scrolled down and saw the enchanter. Awesome.
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Jan 26, 2014 03:57
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I would love to see a new game like old EQ. I played from 1999 to 2003 and it was without doubt the best gaming experience I've ever had. Hopefully a game like this can still be successful. I think one issue is that a lot of the people who fondly remember old EQ are at a different point in their lives now. I was back in college, single, and had all the time in the world to sink into that game. Now, I'm a physician with a family and don't have nearly the time required to give a game like this a go (although I'd probably still try!), and I would imagine there are many others out there like me. And I can imagine it would be tough to get the younger generation into a game like this after the plethora of fast action mmorpgs that catered to a more casual gameplay style. I really hope I'm wrong and this project gets some wind behind it. Good luck!
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Jan 26, 2014 04:24
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Ricemeat posted:I would love to see a new game like old EQ. I played from 1999 to 2003 and it was without doubt the best gaming experience I've ever had. Hopefully a game like this can still be successful. I think one issue is that a lot of the people who fondly remember old EQ are at a different point in their lives now. I was back in college, single, and had all the time in the world to sink into that game. Now, I'm a physician with a family and don't have nearly the time required to give a game like this a go (although I'd probably still try!), and I would imagine there are many others out there like me. And I can imagine it would be tough to get the younger generation into a game like this after the plethora of fast action mmorpgs that catered to a more casual gameplay style. I think what has changed for a lot of old time gamers is the amount of time they can put into a session, you can't play for an 8 hour stretch any longer, perhaps it is half an hour here, an hour there but you have other commitments now. However, that doesn't mean you want to spend your time playing a game that is semi-meaningless to play and not enjoyable. What I loved about older EQ and older WoW was the games were about exploration and character development. It took a fair while to reach whatever was the maximum level and there was a lot to explore and you weren't just religiously following one quest to the other. A lot of MMOs feel like a poorly written story you follow and have very little input into what your character does. WoW wasn't that but became that. I'd much rather play a good game and after a year be only level 30 out of 100 than play a poor game and be 100/100. If the journey is memorable then it just means the content will last you a lot longer. It is just more difficult for social players with group oriented games because your friends pretty much leave you in the dust with the time they put into games. Zvim fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 04:56
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Zvim posted:I think what has changed for a lot of old time gamers is the amount of time they can put into a session, you can't play for an 8 hour stretch any longer, perhaps it is half an hour here, an hour there but you have other commitments now. However, that doesn't mean you want to spend your time playing a game that is semi-meaningless to play and not enjoyable. When i resubscribed to WoW a month ago.. - I made it from level 1 to 90 in less then 13 days.. - I Had 9 outa 10 of my raiding gear within a week.. - I got really bored really quick in less than a month. Im all for character development, and exploration also. Just seem's like Nowadays most mmo's just wanna push you to max level then you spend the rest of your time waiting for a raid or mindlessly grinding. Where's the fun in that?
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Jan 26, 2014 05:09
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I think some of you guys may want to try out FF XIV for a bit. It has a slower combat system with fewer skills, a decent storyline with a nice bit of lore, gorgeous scenery, you feel as if your character is important, a well-paced gear curve (imo), group fights that rely more on execution than gear level, and the gear looks pretty cool. However, it starts slow (beginning is designed people on their first mmo), not a sandbox world, no interesting active abilities on items, and quest focused. Leveling is also fairly quick, but that is because it supports using an ability from one class with your other classes (you can do everything on one character). Not the same experience as EQ but not quite a WoW clone, either.
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Jan 26, 2014 05:32
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Kibner posted:I think some of you guys may want to try out FF XIV for a bit. It has a slower combat system with fewer skills, a decent storyline with a nice bit of lore, gorgeous scenery, you feel as if your character is important, a well-paced gear curve (imo), group fights that rely more on execution than gear level, and the gear looks pretty cool. I avoid asian MMOs like the plague. I like slow, I am not a huge fan of ultra grindy.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:09
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Zvim posted:I avoid asian MMOs like the plague. I like slow, I am not a huge fan of ultra grindy. Good news! FFXIV is not grindy like most asian MMOs.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:10
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... you very clearly had a different experience with FFXIV than I, and many others, had. It is typical spam attack hotbar DDR combat with the addition of telegraphs to not stand in. Combat certainly didn't feel particularly slower paced, my character only felt important if I ignored the fact that the other 90283749827389472398423 people clustered into five square inches around the storyline NPC were equally important, the gear curve was only well-paced in that I didn't give a crap about a single piece of my gear until the horrible, horrible grind for end game itemization, and group fights relied largely on people not being completely retarded. Comparing FFXIV combat to EQ, or VG, is only similar in that it involves hitting things with objects by pushing a hotkey. The flow and feel of it was almost identical to that of WoW - the only different being more boring combat due to only having 3-4 abilities max to manage.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:12
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Flarestar posted:... you very clearly had a different experience with FFXIV than I, and many others, had. It is typical spam attack hotbar DDR combat with the addition of telegraphs to not stand in. Combat certainly didn't feel particularly slower paced, my character only felt important if I ignored the fact that the other 90283749827389472398423 people clustered into five square inches around the storyline NPC were equally important, the gear curve was only well-paced in that I didn't give a crap about a single piece of my gear until the horrible, horrible grind for end game itemization, and group fights relied largely on people not being completely retarded. Well, I obviously disagree, but I won't discuss it further. Vanguard is legit one of my favorite MMOs, though. That, Star Wars Galaxies, and Asheron's Call are my big 3.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:15
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FFXIV is slow in that there's a 2 second global cooldown vs 1 cooldown+assorted instants in a lot of other games, so the lovely hotbar DDR gameplay feels slightly less lovely. It feels much slower than modern EQ to me, especially when I'm playing a particularly spammy class like my monk once I had all the 90+ abilities and cooldown reduction AAs. It's definitely slower than wow. That said, I agree with most of the other points, and the telegraphs being out of sync made stuff like titan/garuda hard a pain in the rear end.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:26
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I quit FFXIV partly because of FATE grinding. My god, that was the worst leveling experience I've had in an MMO. I heard they changed it so you get more XP from dungeons, but unfortunately leveling multiple classes to cap isn't that fun.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:38
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iminers posted:When i resubscribed to WoW a month ago.. I think that is the problem with themepark MMOs, the vast majority of the players are hovering around the end-game content or the new content created and most of the older content becomes obsolete and there are very few players in the older zones. To me that is a terrible waste of resources, so much development time has gone into many zones which nobody utilises anymore and you just have people crowding zones at the end of your current end-game. If you are a new player and you have to go through a decade of content to catch up to your friends or the vast majority of the playerbase then you are going to spend a lot of time alone with you, mobs and a lot of tumbleweed. In one older MMO I played I took a screenshot of another player it was that rare to see anyone on lower level content. I think if you are going to create beautiful zones which are fun to explore and you do not want to have to trivialise or make that content obsolete then the game design has to think about why is anyone going to want to be around in 2, 3, 5, 10+ years time, especially if it is a themepark MMO or story driven MMO. I think there are different solutions, but if the developers do not build that within the design then you have to trivialise old content or allow players to speed through it if you don't really have the population base to allow new players to get through the content and interact with the bulk of the playerbase. MMOs usually make for poor single player experiences.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:53
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Shed posted:I remember starting EQ in 1999 because my brother was playing this game, and I wanted to hang out with him (I was 14 at the time). He ended up stopping at level 16 (poor neglected gnome magician), I continued to play my erudite enchanter and ended up meeting one of my irl best friends through that game. Now I'm twice that age and see you starting on a new game! Thank you!
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Jan 26, 2014 09:01
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G Prestige posted:I quit FFXIV partly because of FATE grinding. My god, that was the worst leveling experience I've had in an MMO. I heard they changed it so you get more XP from dungeons, but unfortunately leveling multiple classes to cap isn't that fun. Just chiming in on the FFXIV-discussion, a friend of mine and I just quit due to the combination of incredibly boring loot (no procs, no activated abilities, nothing remotely interesting on ANY of the gear I came across - everything is just tiered "this gear has +1 str compared to the previous tier!"-bull and the fact that it is so easy you can beat most things by hitting one button. We could beat level 30 (out of a level cap of 50) dungeons by me hitting Overpower over and over again (I'm a tank, that's an AoE damage+threat skill) and a friend of mine hitting his heal, no lie. One button. I had to move a bit on the last boss, but that was it. Soloing was even easier, so easy it was more like Progress Quest than anything else, dying anywhere would require some real effort. This is acceptable on the first levels and maybe the first dungeon to get you used to the mechanics, but that far along? No. Also, yes, the leveling was awful since most quests were terrible "haul this thing to this other guy two meters away from me"-mail delivery crap and FATE grinding was soul-crushingly dull. When the "Collect 5 bear asses"-quests are the best ones in the game because the rest is so effortless and dull, you've got a problem. Worst MMO I've probably played to date. EDIT: It also locks you out of most dungeons until you grind yourself through the main storyline until it hits that part. The story you HAVE to slog through to get to any group content is awful, and this is from someone who liked the old Final Fantasy-plots (6 especially). The main story also has a ton of sections that can't be done in a party, so me and my friend had to abandon the group constantly to get these done (Why are these in an MMO? Just.. why?). Putting long cutscenes that grind the game to a halt in the middle of 4-man dungeons is also an awful design decision no matter what, since someone in your group will always want to watch that. I hate this goddamn game and myself for paying for it. Dropbear fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 09:47
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I hope we can see some more candid information about the creation of MMOs in general when it comes to community outreach. Every MMO gets so hyped, whirls the fanbase into a frenzy, and then ultimately underwhelms when it comes to deliver. Warhammer was a prime example of this where the hype and the reality were pretty disparate. But at the same time, I 100% believe that the Warhammer developers were incredibly passionate and smart individuals still creating an enormous video game that actually came out. Even now when a major studio pushes an MMO people are skeptical about the delivery of the promises. And that's just to round up pre-orders and first week buyers. The nature of a kickstarter requires people to put a hell of a lot of faith in the project, let alone a project in a market saturated in empty promises. Why should a backer back this Kickstarter? Telling us that you have creative and passionate individuals isn't really a selling point, because that's a given, why wouldn't you be incredibly passionate? Is there something new, as developers, you can add to the flow of information and transparency between creators and consumers that will give us more confidence and faith that your project is something to invest in?
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Jan 26, 2014 21:13
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Dropbear posted:Just chiming in on the FFXIV-discussion You really don't play a lot of MMOs, do you?
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Jan 27, 2014 04:32
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ARR is certainly worth the free month to do the story quest and a few class/job quests. Plenty of good clean fun there. More than you can say about a lot of games.
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Jan 27, 2014 05:25
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FFXIV is a great game and I have very few issues with it that are not being actively improved (pvp). I'm just really tired of the level 1-x format most MMO's follow and although I don't think Pantheon is necessarily the game to deviate from that path (due to its roots) I hope to see more companies take a shot at true sandbox games. Hell, if a proper studio pulled off a sandbox game with darkfall like combat I would be hooked.
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Jan 27, 2014 07:15
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After reading the Dark Knight class I presume there will be no Necromancer? 
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Jan 27, 2014 10:03
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Harettazetta posted:You really don't play a lot of MMOs, do you? I do, actually - I just try to avoid the worst trainwrecks. Age of Conan and Warhammer Online were awful, but at least the PvP in WHO was kind-of fun and.. Well, okay, I have very little good to say about Age of Conan either. At least you couldn't beat everything there by hitting one button with your eyes closed and the quests weren't mostly hundreds of insulting ferryman-things where you bring a thing from person A to person B a few meters away, so that's something, I guess. But it's the wrong thread for this, so, Pantheon! Everything I've read so far seems to be pretty much exactly what I'd like changed about the current theme park-style MMOs (long, involved quests that aren't the aforementioned ferryman-stuff! Giant dungeons instead of straight hallways!). Shame it won't be out for ages, since I'm looking for something to dump my extra free time on now, but I'll be sure to give it a go if the kickstarter succeeds. Oh My Science posted:FFXIV is a great game and I have very few issues with it that are not being actively improved (pvp). I'm just really tired of the level 1-x format most MMO's follow and although I don't think Pantheon is necessarily the game to deviate from that path (due to its roots) I hope to see more companies take a shot at true sandbox games. Also, this! As said, I disagree on FFXIV not-being-awful, but my first and best MMO experiences were with Ultima Online - while it wasn't a full-on sandbox where you could mold the terrain etc, there were sandboxy elements there. I've been looking for something like that ever since, but Haven & Hearth and the like are usually developed by just one or two guys with no budget whatsoever and it shows in the content. Maybe someday! Dropbear fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Jan 27, 2014 |
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Jan 27, 2014 11:56
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So two ex-VG devs are posting over on Rerolled, and apparently the currently assembled team is almost all "idea guys" (like 7 or 8) with one engineer and the dungeon designer. This sounds like a bad recipe for eating through funding. That's not how you get a startup going. Successful startups are heavy on the people that actually create content, since a startup makes or breaks on execution - not ideas. That explains why, after "months" of work, the KS video doesn't have anything but some stock Unity packages in it. Just trying to see how this is actually going to work out, and not just be a money vacuum - like VG was.
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Jan 27, 2014 14:05
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xZAOx posted:So two ex-VG devs are posting over on Rerolled, and apparently the currently assembled team is almost all "idea guys" (like 7 or 8) with one engineer and the dungeon designer. They will hire a full staff when the project is funded and most likely when they get a publisher. This is answered on the kickstarter FAQ where the question is "Doesn't it take more than $800k to make a MMOG?" It's tougher for a brand new game studio to put out content we can see during the kickstarter phase, it's easier for developers like Obsidian and even inxile entertainment where they have some money. We'll pretend the two games inxile made beforehand are locked in a vault with the key thrown away.
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Jan 27, 2014 14:38
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Node posted:They will hire a full staff when the project is funded and most likely when they get a publisher. This is answered on the kickstarter FAQ where the question is "Doesn't it take more than $800k to make a MMOG?" Sigil was run into the ground. How Brad managed to get Smed to buy Vangard I'll never know.
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Jan 27, 2014 17:58
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Parafin posted:They are going to have a hard time finding talented people to work for another company with Brad and Co. at the helm. Everyone in the development world remembers Sigil: the long, unpaid hours; the promises of a share of the profits; the sudden closure where many employees didn't receive final paychecks, just a "well this is it, we're done, thanks." Pantheon is going to be funny to watch because of this. I give it 3 yrs before we see a full video. Maybe 4.
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Jan 27, 2014 19:37
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