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MJBuddy posted:Look at it this way. Developers can sort output by preferences. So far, it seems clear that identical games are on Xbox as 720 or 30 fps. But the graphical quality hasn't been reduced, beyond resolutions. The real danger in the race for Xbox is when the PlayStation produces a game that's so intensive it needs to run at 720p and the Xbox frankly has no option other than to reduce quality. That's how the gap widens. If PS4 games continue to comfortably hit 1080p, then One games will be able to replicate that at 720p. I'm not even looking at PS4 games for comparison, but in general. If game developers are already hitting the peak of the system, or near the peak pending a new SDK, then the Xbox is already hitting its max capabilities unless games and media are brought down to a 480p resolution. I have to disagree with Xbox One games being able to replicate the same images at 720 with similar fidelity, detail, etc. You're assuming that people don't care about image quality beyond "good enough", but the bar for "good enough" changes constantly as technology gets better and prices get cheaper. Even though the majority of televisions are not 1080p calibrated right now doesn't stop their successors from doing so. The issue with the resolution argument isn't that it's a good metric or not to measure this generation, but it points to a rapidly coming stagnation of graphical capabilities in favour of the kinect, a peripheral that hasn't proven its worth for a lot of people in the previous generation. To bring back to the original post I quoted: It's not a deal breaker right now, but someone looking to pickup a cheaper Xbox or PS4 a few years down the line isn't going to be happy when their games look blurrier/have less visual candy than their counterpart on their television.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:20
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Charles Martel posted:Also, people still complaining about 720p and having to have a Kinect are pretty funny. Am I the only one that can't really notice a difference between 720p/900p and 1080p and don't freak out when there's a Kinect in the same box as my console? It kinda sucks that a console in 2013 isn't full-fledged HD all-around, but it's not a deal-breaker or anything. While I don't really care about 720 vs 1080, it's a little worrying to me what it says about the system when it comes time to really push things. If there is a PS4 game of significant enough scope that it's 720 on that system, what compromises will the bone version have?
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Feb 19, 2014 00:21
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ShineDog posted:While I don't really care about 720 vs 1080, it's a little worrying to me what it says about the system when it comes time to really push things. If there is a PS4 game of significant enough scope that it's 720 on that system, what compromises will the bone version have? 60/30 fps probably (i.e. tomb raider). Don't forget that Microsofts general strategy around the xbox is to compete with google/apple too (xbox is an entertainment brand, not a games brand), so there's all that video/tv/music/skype functionality that you may or may not have been using. I'm sure there will be more stuff down the line as well, hopefully some eventual integration with the windows store, etc.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:43
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ShineDog posted:While I don't really care about 720 vs 1080, it's a little worrying to me what it says about the system when it comes time to really push things. If there is a PS4 game of significant enough scope that it's 720 on that system, what compromises will the bone version have? Yeah I think my point is that that's the biggest threat to the system in real terms. The biggest threat to gamers is that people keep saying 1080p = the minimum accepted standard of good graphics, so PS4 multiplat titles keep aiming for 1080p and 720 on the Xbox because they need to sell copies on both systems so developing anything that looks better literally leads to selling less.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:49
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MJBuddy posted:Look at it this way. Developers can sort output by preferences. So far, it seems clear that identical games are on Xbox as 720 or 30 fps. But the graphical quality hasn't been reduced, beyond resolutions. The real danger in the race for Xbox is when the PlayStation produces a game that's so intensive it needs to run at 720p and the Xbox frankly has no option other than to reduce quality. That's how the gap widens. If PS4 games continue to comfortably hit 1080p, then One games will be able to replicate that at 720p. There is this thing called downsampling / supersampling where you take a higher res image and display it in a lower res so it looks better. So a native 1080p game will look better on a 720p display than a native 720p game.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:27
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Minor quality of life issue that's cropped up, I got the blu-rays of the third season of Game of Thrones. The Bone (and possibly Pee Ess Quatro from mild googling) won't play them. It'll briefly show the loading icon for the discs, then hold on a black screen. Discs work fine in a PS3 and a PC with a BD drive. Speculation is it's the consoles reacting to a DRM solution on the discs, likely due to the PVR/streaming features. Bravo, guys, you didn't think companies would have measure in place to gently caress with some dork wanting to stream HBO boobs on Justin.tv that could cause trouble on your all-in-one media box.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:53
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Gaz-L posted:Minor quality of life issue that's cropped up, I got the blu-rays of the third season of Game of Thrones. The Bone (and possibly Pee Ess Quatro from mild googling) won't play them. It'll briefly show the loading icon for the discs, then hold on a black screen. Discs work fine in a PS3 and a PC with a BD drive. Speculation is it's the consoles reacting to a DRM solution on the discs, likely due to the PVR/streaming features. Bravo, guys, you didn't think companies would have measure in place to gently caress with some dork wanting to stream HBO boobs on Justin.tv that could cause trouble on your all-in-one media box. The streaming/PVR already didn't work on movies and media apps.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:57
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Aphrodite posted:The streaming/PVR already didn't work on movies and media apps. I know. But the theory I saw was that the DRM on the disc was seeing the hardware/firmware for it and freaking out anyway. It may well be bullshit and it's caused by something else, but it's still a dumb oversight.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:59
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MJBuddy posted:Look at it this way. Developers can sort output by preferences. So far, it seems clear that identical games are on Xbox as 720 or 30 fps. But the graphical quality hasn't been reduced, beyond resolutions. The real danger in the race for Xbox is when the PlayStation produces a game that's so intensive it needs to run at 720p and the Xbox frankly has no option other than to reduce quality. That's how the gap widens. If PS4 games continue to comfortably hit 1080p, then One games will be able to replicate that at 720p. Well the good news is the PS4 already looks better and doesn't lower it's resolution. See the new Metal Gear Solid. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 19, 2014 03:11
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Blue Raider posted:PSA: Do not get your Xbone controller substantially wet, or it will poo poo the bed in dramatic fashion. What happened?  I just figured out if you press the home button once, then on the second press hold it down - it will turn off without any prompt. Probably not your one tho blue raider  Thief is confirmed at 900p, can't wait to see the difference on my sweet as gently caress 22inch Samsung TV.
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Feb 19, 2014 03:11
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OldPueblo posted:So I had this happen and I thought it was just a one-off titanfall beta thing. Guess not, FYI. You can get a black screen on your bone after the recent update. Hold power button to fix. I also thought this was titanfall. It's happened to me twice already.
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Feb 19, 2014 03:16
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Crafty posted:What happened? glass of water fell on it slightly, very sad
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Feb 19, 2014 03:22
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beejay posted:Well the good news is the PS4 already looks better and doesn't lower it's resolution. See the new Metal Gear Solid. Yeah because the developers behind MGS have never been overtly preferring the Sony platforms and open about barely giving a poo poo about slapping their Xbox ports together without caring. Seriously if they shipped the Xbox One MGS and it just loaded a 16 bit version of the game where all of the dialogue was "American system so weak!" It wouldn't actually be that big of a surprise. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 19, 2014 05:32
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MJBuddy posted:Yeah because the developers behind MGS have never been overtly preferring the Sony platforms and open about barely giving a poo poo about slapping their Xbox ports together without caring. Were the Tomb Raider: DE devs Japanese as well? And speaking of Tomb Raider, I supposed Konami could have aimed for 900p or 1080p at 30fps instead of 720p at 60fps.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:34
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:There is this thing called downsampling / supersampling where you take a higher res image and display it in a lower res so it looks better. So a native 1080p game will look better on a 720p display than a native 720p game. You realize this implies people with sub-50 inch tvs in their living room would likely be better off setting their consoles/tvs to 720p. What percent of them do you believe do that? Is it exactly zero or just infitesmially close to it? And Tomb raider on both systems is 1080p and virtually identical from what I've seen. I haven't played it, and videos of it are obviously not going to show great distinction because compressed sources are all over the place, but I was under the impression the only difference was the PS4 runs at a just sub 60 fps while the One runs at a locked 30 that clocks in just under 30 on average due to single tail variance. The port was done by two different companies who had different design ideas, which is why the One wasn't allowed to run at a loose FPS which was reported as in the mid to high 40s but with more variation. MJBuddy fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 05:35
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MJBuddy posted:You realize this implies people with sub-50 inch tvs in their living room would likely be better off setting their consoles/tvs to 720p. What percent of them do you believe do that? Is it exactly zero or just infitesmially close to it? It implies no such thing.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:39
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Yay new thread, half of it console warrioring Is there a Plex solution yet? I'd love it if I could integrate plex with my cablebox.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:40
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Holy poo poo did I ring the console warrior bell. Well guys hi. Thanks for introducing yourselves by judging my spending habits. Exit is the way you came in.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:42
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Yay new thread, half of it console warrioring Discussing facts about a console positive or negative isn't console warrioring.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:44
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since 70% of Kojima is movies what the hell is the other 30%
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Feb 19, 2014 05:45
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MJBuddy posted:Look at it this way. Developers can sort output by preferences. So far, it seems clear that identical games are on Xbox as 720 or 30 fps. But the graphical quality hasn't been reduced, beyond resolutions. The real danger in the race for Xbox is when the PlayStation produces a game that's so intensive it needs to run at 720p and the Xbox frankly has no option other than to reduce quality. That's how the gap widens. If PS4 games continue to comfortably hit 1080p, then One games will be able to replicate that at 720p. This is demonstrably untrue as titles have already shipped with lower resolution *and* reduced shaders and effects; see Tomb Raider: DE and Battlefield 4.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:46
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Hi guys. Knock the console warrior bullshit off. Thanks.big mean giraffe posted:Discussing facts about a console positive or negative isn't console warrioring. EDIT: It will be interesting to see how much of a difference the SDK improvement makes. It's still early days, though, all around - we won't be seeing the final outcome of the hardware differences for a few years yet. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 05:46
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Japanese devs get their games running better on the PS4 because it doesn't have a crappy SDK or ESRAM bottleneck, not because they hate American made products.  Hopefully the Sniper Elite 3 guys weren't blowing smoke about the new SDK because it means better games which is good for all game buyers, but c'mon with the  ing.e: I own both consoles, it would be cool if multiplat games had parity in the future so the only differences would come down to controller preference/which one are my friends playing on.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:48
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Soul Glo posted:Japanese devs get their games running better on the PS4 because it doesn't have a crappy SDK or ESRAM bottleneck, not because they hate American made products. Right. From all accounts the xbone SDK is completely terrible so getting one up and running that isn't a shitshow should help out the performance for future releases. At least automate more of the eSRAM stuff to help the devs(I think the 360 did the same thing with their eDRAM as opposed to the ps3 where you had to tell the cell exactly what to do any when).
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Feb 19, 2014 05:49
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MJBuddy posted:Yeah because the developers behind MGS have never been overtly preferring the Sony platforms and open about barely giving a poo poo about slapping their Xbox ports together without caring. Hideo Kojima put Zone of the Enders 3 on hiatus after he found out about the frame rate issues in the ZOE HD collection. Kojima cares deeply about the quality of every one of his games, which should be obvious from the level of detail put into them, well beyond almost all other games. It's loving absurd and ignorant for you to suggest otherwise. edit: It's also pretty loving racist. You don't know poo poo, I hope you're loving ashamed of yourself. boom boom boom fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 05:55
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Tiling support in the SDK should make it easier to hit 1080p, though you'd have to sacrifice even more elsewhere to make that work over just going for 720p and upscaling - tiling has a not-insignificant amount of overhead, which would tax the GPU even further (which is the other half of the bone's performance woes). I'd expect a better SDK to help games hit 1080p30 (if they choose to go that route), but 1080p60 would still be out of reach without really sacrificing graphical quality.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:01
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Xbox One is basically the Ronald Reagan of consoles. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 19, 2014 06:10
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boom boom boom posted:Hideo Kojima put Zone of the Enders 3 on hiatus after he found out about the frame rate issues in the ZOE HD collection. Kojima cares deeply about the quality of every one of his games, which should be obvious from the level of detail put into them, well beyond almost all other games. It's loving absurd and ignorant for you to suggest otherwise. I don't think MGS is quite Japanese developer hates all things American. I think it's more of the fact that the original platform development target was probably the ps3, porting to 360, then later porting to the other 2 systems, and the time spent on optimization wasn't as intense. I think we'll see that as titles are made for the current gen first either exclusively, or ported back, it will probably shake out more like Thief, where the One will obviously less detailed in some way, but more like 1080 v 900 instead of 1080 vs 720. ----- For the TV talk. I think gamers trending towards the hardcore grossly over estimate how often people replace their TV's. Unless we're talking a broadcast standards shift or getting rid of some mammoth first gen projection set, I think most people see their TV's in the same light as all their household appliances. Until it breaks, there's no reason to replace it.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:11
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crowfeathers posted:Xbox One is basically the Ronald Reagan of consoles. I disagree the Xbox One will never be fondly remembered by anyone. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 19, 2014 06:13
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Iron Tusk posted:I don't think MGS is quite Japanese developer hates all things American. I think it's more of the fact that the original platform development target was probably the ps3, porting to 360, then later porting to the other 2 systems, and the time spent on optimization wasn't as intense. I think we'll see that as titles are made for the current gen first either exclusively, or ported back, it will probably shake out more like Thief, where the One will obviously less detailed in some way, but more like 1080 v 900 instead of 1080 vs 720. As I understand it, MGSV was always supposed to be a next-gen title. It was also developed on the Fox Engine, which was created with the goal in mind of easy porting across systems and generations. If MGSV doesn't look as good on the Xbox One as on other consoles, the flaw does not lie with Kojima productions.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:14
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Iron Tusk posted:I don't think MGS is quite Japanese developer hates all things American. I think it's more of the fact that the original platform development target was probably the ps3, porting to 360, then later porting to the other 2 systems, and the time spent on optimization wasn't as intense. I think we'll see that as titles are made for the current gen first either exclusively, or ported back, it will probably shake out more like Thief, where the One will obviously less detailed in some way, but more like 1080 v 900 instead of 1080 vs 720. It'll be interesting to see if both consoles can maintain 30 fps for Thief when digital foundry get around to it. I think you're right with the 1080 vs 900, or 900 vs 720 which are the gaps we see in bf4 and ac4. Also agree with the TV bit. No one is throwing out a working flat screen TV. If you look on eBay/Craigslist/kijiji you can still find tons of people trying to shift CRTs! boom boom boom posted:edit: It's also pretty loving racist. You don't know poo poo, I hope you're loving ashamed of yourself. Calm down  suggesting a Japanese developer would develop it better for a Japanese console is pretty dumb, but it doesn't qualify as a white power movement.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:23
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Crafty posted:Calm down MJBuddy posted:Seriously if they shipped the Xbox One MGS and it just loaded a 16 bit version of the game where all of the dialogue was "American system so weak!" It wouldn't actually be that big of a surprise. Imitating an Asian man by using broken English is racist bro.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:39
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boom boom boom posted:Imitating an Asian man by using broken English is racist bro. Fair enough. I wonder what the real reason for the resolution gap being bigger for MGS than it is for Thief?
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Feb 19, 2014 06:51
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Crafty posted:Fair enough. MGS actually looks good, Thief looks like a last-gen game? Edit: I am not trying to start a fight or say anything bad about Thief, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good as MGS graphics wise. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 06:54
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KittyEmpress posted:MGS actually looks good, Thief looks like a last-gen game? The gap should remain consistent is what I mean, never mind what the game looks like. If thief was really easy to run you'd expect some 60fps up in here. Mgs better look drat good considering its 20 dollars per gameplay hour.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:58
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Crafty posted:Fair enough. Thief's had a troubled development, as far as I know, so it's probably not as well optimized on any version of the game.
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Feb 19, 2014 08:32
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Crafty posted:The gap should remain consistent is what I mean, never mind what the game looks like. If thief was really easy to run you'd expect some 60fps up in here. It does seem fairly consistent. Games that run at 30 FPS generally have the Xbox One running at 1600x900. Games targeting 60FPS and have some graphical ambition have the Xbox One running at a lower resolution than that. You have to take into consideration that the Xbox One's GPU is pretty bad outside of the FLOPS metric a lot of people use to measure GPUs. It has abysmal texel fillrates, pixel fillrates and number of shaders compared to AMD's HD7800 series Graphic Core Next GPUs, which is almost entry level for PC gaming these days. Then you throw in the possible eSRAM memory size/bandwidth bottleneck and everything goes pear shaped. It seems that there are just so many bottlenecks that comparative if someone wanted to maintain a relatively stable 60FPS while focusing on nice graphical effects and processing, they'd have to cut down on the resolution to achieve it. Games that suffer troubled development (so a lot of games) just exacerbate these issues. jeffreyw fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 09:40
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It kinda makes you wonder if consoles will hit anything near an 8 year cycle this time. Seems like the XB One will be especially creaky in 8 years, and both having gone for a more reasonable price (once the Kinectless SKU hits) means a shorter generation has less sting.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:11
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Well that was fun. Haters gonna hate, but I really enjoyed the Titanfall beta - a nice twist to the COD/Halo fps; I felt like I did when I started playing Gears the first time. Anyway, are there any good pre-order bonuses for Titanfall? I don't normally do pre-orders, but with the right bait I could be taken in.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:14
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No, there's no reason at all to preorder Titanfall.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:23
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