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Last I heard, it was a top-selling light novel series so I assume it has some word of mouth.
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May 30, 2015 10:07
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they should have taken saika to the theme park, what a fail
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May 30, 2015 17:58
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chumbler posted:While most of the characters made the transition between studios pretty well, I'm not a fan of 8man's season 2 look. He looks too normal or even cool, compared to his kind of runty and out of place first season design. The_Frag_Man posted:Do you really think he's gay? Reading between the lines etc, but Saika's a pretty subtle bit of characterization for Hachiman in my opinion. Saika is introduced early on and through the whole series he's a recurring character that occupies a fairly unique role in the cast: He's affectionate to Hachiman, doesn't have ulterior motives, is nonthreatening, and attractive. It's obviously playing on tropes and it's written in a comedic/subtextual manner, but it serves some plot/characterization purpose too: Over the course of the two seasons we've gotten lots of backstory and hints about how Hachiman views affection and social interaction as threats - veiled hostility, impure motives, dishonesty, etc. The most recent two episodes give a really concrete example of that - his internal monologue in 8 really emphasizes how the root of his fear is that he can't understand other people so he's always afraid of them. Then in the opening of the latest episode he's expressing this profound fear of being harassed and ridiculed at school because he made himself vulnerable by being honest. When he shows up in the club room they convey a real sense of tension and he suddenly relaxes once he realizes Yui and Yukino aren't going to treat him like garbage, despite his expectations. This is part of why the interactions with Yukino in the latter half leave him dumbstruck/confused - he can't view her or Yui as hostile or dishonest anymore since he's starting to understand them, and she's being genuinely affectionate in a way that only Yui has in the past. His normal solution for those sorts of things (cynicism) doesn't really apply. His interactions with Iroha have been relevant here too - repeatedly taking little steps out of his comfort zone, like offering to hold bags for her and being relatively familiar - despite the fact that she's constantly harassing him. So, how Saika fits into this: Saika is guileless, attractive and affectionate. Lots of Hachiman's behavior and internal monologues make it obvious that he is into girls. Saika is written to represent all the things a character like Hachiman would find appealing in a girl without any of the threats and uncertainty associated with them. Saika is arguably also the character in the series that Hachiman can understand the best because of that simplicity - which makes him less threatening. Over the whole course of the series while Hachiman's being intensely cynical and closed-off and hostile to Yui, Yukino &c, his behavior and internal monologue around Saika gives you a glimpse of how he'd probably be acting around girls were he not completely hosed up. He's starting to behave more like that with girls in this season (the teacher is the most obvious example). (Well, also: all the dialogue in the anime, manga, and VN makes it pretty clear that the writer could make him end up with Saika and it would be internally consistent. But other than a route branch in a VN, I don't think that's really on the table here, even if it's consistent with his character.)
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May 30, 2015 19:34
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That's an interesting take on it, though I agree I doubt it's on the table. Personally I think Saika fills the same narrative space Zenmokuza does; he's a non-threatening ally Hikki can rely on to a certain degree, but stubbornly refused to categorize as 'friend' until relatively recently at best. Whereas his relationships with Yui, Yukino and even Hayato force him to expand his frame of reference in order to understand what they want and where they're coming from, the B-team friends are people that Hikki can trust, knows he can trust, and even does trust to an extent, limited only by his inability to ask for help and self-defeating attitude. Both Zenmokuza and Saika obviously want to be friends with him and don't ask anything in return. They don't actually require Hikki to play interpreter and understand what they're thinking at all times; they just like the dude and enjoy hanging around with him. Hikki is just really bad at coming to grips with that, so he doesn't really see them that way even if he continues to interact with them in a manner functionally indistinguishable from being friends with them. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 21:20
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Allarion posted:Last I heard, it was a top-selling light novel series so I assume it has some word of mouth. Considering what the other top-selling light novel series are though, one can be excused for not actually considering that a point in its favor.
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May 30, 2015 22:44
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Put me in the "didn't initially watch this show because of the dumb title" camp. Glad a friend was able to convince me to power through the first season a couple weeks ago.
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May 31, 2015 04:46
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The only reason I started watching the show is because the thread for the first season had the E/N tag.
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May 31, 2015 06:58
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I don't think his orientation seems a one way street, and more up in the air. Given how alternative orientations are portrayed in anime and elsewhere in Japan (bara bathhouses woo), they're not going to totally out of the closet with him. Doing so invokes all sorts of stereotypes among the audience that will make him seem less relatable. The whole point of shipping series is that nobody eventually declares their love for each other and crushes 80% of the fandom, so anybody's interpretation is up to them. More than most characters, 8man seems to realize that life does not end at High School, and they certainly can end the show with him being Good Friends with everyone and having no real date to the prom. A lot of fans though like to post long diatribes interpreting his thoughts about Saika and trying to disprove any traditional romantic notions toward him. I don't know why they feel the need to go into deep psychoanalysis about how this is Really Not A Ship. God knows that Kaelan Zero isn't the first; I've seen similar wordy dissertations on why your yaoi headcanon is wrong on MyAnimeList forums and elsewhere. All these prognosticators want to read the tea leaves for me and tell me similar arguments for the Hiki/Totsuka thing being representative of Hiki's emotional scarring, etc. For me, it isn't that complex. I just like it because I'm gay and can understand a guy who is kind of friendly to the girls around him while secretly crushing on the cute guy. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 07:40 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 07:31
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Craptacular! posted:I don't think his orientation seems a one way street, and more up in the air. Given how alternative orientations are portrayed in anime and elsewhere in Japan (bara bathhouses woo), they're not going to totally out of the closet with him. Doing so invokes all sorts of stereotypes among the audience that will make him seem less relatable. The whole point of shipping series is that nobody eventually declares their love for each other and crushes 80% of the fandom, so anybody's interpretation is up to them. More than most characters, 8man seems to realize that life does not end at High School, and they certainly can end the show with him being Good Friends with everyone and having no real date to the prom. 8man may realize life doesn't end at high school, but everyone else around him recognizes that on his own he's not going to get past that high school mentality he has. Going through season 2 has been good because it's just every other character constantly beating down that wall he's built up to try to fix that aspect of him. So far I think his interactions with Hayato have been probably my favorites, because it seems so much harder for him to write those off than if they had come from someone else. I also just like seeing Hayato having a sincere interest in helping 8man since I think his having priorities adds depth to him as an archetypical nice guy character. Regarding the Hachiman is gay thing, that wasn't really too serious of a suggestion. If he is, sure that's great. But from a character development stand point I don't think it would be terribly interesting. Personally I think Haruno or Yui are the most interesting options in that regard. Haruno because she's someone who he absolutely can't handle and who doesn't back off so easily like others do around him, and Yui because she's pretty much an opposite of everything about him and is slowly wearing down his shell. chumbler fucked around with this message at 08:07 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 08:01
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chumbler posted:Regarding the Hachiman is gay thing, that wasn't really too serious of a suggestion. If he is, sure that's great. But from a character development stand point I don't think it would be terribly interesting. Personally I think Haruno or Yui are the most interesting options in that regard. Haruno because she's someone who he absolutely can't handle and who doesn't back off so easily like others do around him, and Yui because she's pretty much an opposite of everything about him and is slowly wearing down his shell. Haruno is probably my favorite character in the whole thing. Although honestly, that's probably because something about anime Yukino puts me off. In the LN artwork/covers/whatever, she has this sort of relaxed look; whereas in the anime while she still does daydream from time to time she often seems much more visibly... I don't know the word... Disciplined? I think it's that she's often got angry/irritated eyebrows. My point was that some people protest the Hiki/Seika thing so hard that it seems to be projecting. Whatever you think about it is fine; but if someone just posts "sorry girls, looks like he's going gay" and they respond with five good-sized paragraphs to the contrary, that person looks to me like someone who can't handle the thought that the character they like might be *gasp* gay. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 08:15 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 08:12
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Craptacular! posted:Haruno is probably my favorite character in the whole thing. Although honestly, that's probably because something about anime Yukino puts me off. In the LN artwork/covers/whatever, she has this sort of relaxed look; whereas in the anime while she still does daydream from time to time she often seems much more visibly... I don't know the word... Disciplined? I think it's that she's often got angry/irritated eyebrows. Not being the person in question who wrote the five paragraphs I'm afraid I can't comment on their motivations, but for my part I wrote a refutation because I thought it was a reasonable (and straightforward enough) narrative theory that merited consideration. Relationships are complex in this anime, so if somebody posits a conclusion that doesn't mesh with mine I take the opportunity to check to see how it agrees with the narrative. No ill will intended, I just don't see that outcome as likely from a writing perspective, and explaining that thought process might possibly be interesting to someone, or at the very least help them shape their own feelings on the matter. I grant that other people condemn the idea for less tasteful reasons, but for as much as my opinion is worth (not very), I read Zero's post as more or less in line with the rest of the analysis we've seen thus far. Hikki interacts with people in a pretty complex manner and personally speaking I think it's worth a long diatribe or seven if it helps people feel out how they're connecting to the narrative and what they see in it. His relationship with Saika is fair game for that I think, especially since the show does allocate a certain amount of time to him now and then, moreso than most of the other B-characters. I mean, jumping on a clear joke is sort of in ill taste but questioning Hikki's orientation is a possible line to approach the series from so I don't think it's totally out of line, you know? Even if, after thinking about it for a while, you conclude "No, that's probably not it", it's worth to at least discover why you think that is or is not the case. For my part I think the show's pretty clearly telegraphed that the ultimate romantic payoff is going to be between Hikki and Yukino, though whether or not that'll actually result in them getting together is still in question. I think it'd be pretty in-line for the series to lead up to Hikki ultimately confessing and getting shot down because Yukino feels she hasn't grown past her own personal immaturities yet. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 09:31 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 09:28
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Yukino doesn't come across as a potential love interest to me.
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May 31, 2015 10:29
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The_Frag_Man posted:Yukino doesn't come across as a potential love interest to me.
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May 31, 2015 11:57
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Classy Hydra posted:I grant that other people condemn the idea for less tasteful reasons, but for as much as my opinion is worth (not very), I read Zero's post as more or less in line with the rest of the analysis we've seen thus far. I'm not out to condemn anyone's opinions, and the people reading subtext into this series aren't crazy, it's there! I just like to try and focus on the non-romantic aspects of the show since a lot of people have a hard time picking up on them and they can be pretty confusing.  
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May 31, 2015 13:17
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8man isn't gay. Nothing in the story outside of Saika(who tbh really isn't a serious love interest) shows any indication that 8man is of that inclination and instead shows all signs of the opposite. He shows attraction towards women, is flustered when in compromised situations with the opposite sex, and even his attraction towards Saika is based on the basis that Saika is so effeminate in nature and features that he might as well be the idea girl. (We're also forgetting that 8man's crush on Saika is always played off as humor.)
Will2Powa fucked around with this message at 14:50 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 14:47
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hikki x saika OTP FTW
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May 31, 2015 15:47
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Cake Attack posted:hikki x saika OTP FTW
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May 31, 2015 15:53
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So, I'm not exactly trying to call out specific people, because like I said I see a lot of this from people who aren't goons. I wasn't trying to put people on the defensive. There's not exactly a big yaoi/fujoshi crowd on ADTRW, and I'm just saying that people who want to go on about how a character isn't gay, that the relationship is comedic and therefore easily dismissed as a side gag, etc; I think they're missing the point. Everything in Star Trek suggested James T Kirk was nothing but a straight character, but Kirk/Spock is like the ur-example of slash. Nobody is expecting a gay option in a mainstream Japanese relationship novel to be treated as anything but comedy. Japan's tolerance of diverse peoples just isn't there. I mean really if you're a fan of this stuff, your favorite pairings are often "straight characters" that have shown only inklings of moments with other characters. The stuff that's produced that actually explores same-sex relationships is often unrealistic and misguided (and I guess by this I mean it tries to pass off a bunch of rape as the core of a stable, loving relationship.) It kind of comes off like this... Person A: I like this pairing. Person B: Let me cite you canon that dismisses that this is not really a legitimate pairing option. Person A: ??????? Usually, Person A is used to used to 'liking pairings' over little more than perceived slight differences with how characters interact with each other. The fact that the author didn't intend for the character to be seriously interpreted as gay sort of doesn't matter if you're that type of person. That said, I don't watch this show for it's vague resemblance to harem anime. The Hachi/Seika segments are amusing, but don't really do it for me because one of these characters is presented as being basically 'perfect' for the sake of the joke. But some people on the internet, and I'm guessing this is particular among the younger crowd that typically watches anime, seem to be vocal in explaining the dynamics the author intended whenever somebody says something to the effect of "forget about these girls and go gay." If you look for gay subtext in anime, these sorts of let-me-tell-you-that's-not-canon replies often feel like an odd kind of 'mansplaining'. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 16:02
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Craptacular! posted:If you look for gay subtext in anime, these sorts of let-me-tell-you-that's-not-canon replies often feel like an odd kind of 'mansplaining'. To be honest, it feels to me like its just fandom people being fandom people. At least around the group I hang out with, everyone has to explain their pet pairings and theories in excruciating detail, and disprove every other option. Since there aren't many yaoi fans around here, I am sure it pops up in relation to any gay pairing, but I don't think it is specifically about gay pairings. Though I am not gay, (or interested in debates about pairings really, even in general) so its possible I am just ignoring that body conversations. I have certainly had it explained to me in great detail why girl 2 who i like in an anime will never ever end up with the guy because *mathematical analysis of screentime and chair positions* or long rambling theories on how the main character is in fact gay. I think its just something people do for anything that could possibly have multiple pairings. Personally I am rooting for Yui, I like all the characters pretty well though and wouldn't be unhappy with any outcome as long as Tobe winds up alone. I don't really find it enjoyable to debate who the characters really care about because I think, even in this show where the romance takes a bit of a back seat, things are intentionally left vague. Its safe to say that there is wiggle room for almost any of the characters. But, to each their own. Also, on the topic of the show name, when I looked it up, people were still using the long Japanese name and, while I thought it was dumb, it was less immediately offensive to me. I gave it a shot because I liked the design of 8man himself, looking actually like a loser and not just an anime every-man.
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May 31, 2015 16:50
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While I doubt Hicki x Saika is ever actually going to happen I do like the pairing. It'd be really cute to watch them go on a date (even if just as friends).  Personally as long as no one starts to flame sperg or typing/drawing NSFW slash fiction in the thread or anything I'm not really bothered.
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May 31, 2015 22:00
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MrAptronym posted:Personally I am rooting for Yui, I like all the characters pretty well though and wouldn't be unhappy with any outcome as long as Tobe winds up alone. Aww that's rough. Tobe seems like a good guy, I like how he honestly believes the hero's name is Hikitani.
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Jun 1, 2015 00:27
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Craptacular! posted:So, I'm not exactly trying to call out specific people, because like I said I see a lot of this from people who aren't goons. I wasn't trying to put people on the defensive. There's not exactly a big yaoi/fujoshi crowd on ADTRW, and I'm just saying that people who want to go on about how a character isn't gay, that the relationship is comedic and therefore easily dismissed as a side gag, etc; I think they're missing the point. Everything in Star Trek suggested James T Kirk was nothing but a straight character, but Kirk/Spock is like the ur-example of slash. The problem is mostly that anime is anime and we have come to expect any hint of homosexuality to be exploitative, because that is, unfortunately, what anime/manga do. So the assumption is that the Totsuka thing is just a joke on the author's part rather than a legitimate take on Hachiman possibly being gay.
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Jun 1, 2015 00:33
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I looked back to see where this "Is Hikki gay?" tangent even started, and it all started with someone taking someone else's off-hand joke seriously. I don't have anything against the trap option and personally like trap pairings myself (but I'm more Hikki x Sensei in this series), but I'm more annoyed with people trying to seriously read subtext that just isn't there. It's fine for slash and stuff, but the actual story just doesn't support that interpretation. Yui and Yukino are pretty clearly telegraphed to be the main love interests. Plus, Hikki's liking of Saika isn't gay because it isn't an actual reflection of his orientation, besides it being treated as a joke.
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Jun 1, 2015 06:36
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Hey, maybe dude is just Bi with a bias towards girls. Under this interpretation his crush on Totsuka is real enough, but he himself doesn't take it seriously because he's not that into guys. Hikki/Hayato OTP just kidding, I totally want Yui to be the winner
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Jun 1, 2015 06:46
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this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPJ9uZbmUTk except with Hikki
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Jun 1, 2015 06:57
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drat, after episode 9 it looks like it's actually Yui who's the one going for that harem ending. Yukino got some badly needed character development, though. She has so far been the most disappointing character in the show for me, mainly because she feels less like a possible person than just a bunch of traits thrown together for narrative convenience. Edit: Note that the Yui harem comment was a joke. chumbler fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jun 1, 2015 |
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Jun 1, 2015 08:19
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My personal theory is that Yukinoshita Haruno is actually Yukino's daughter from the future, and not her sister. Yukinoshia Yukino (YY) hooked up with Hayama Hayato (HH), giving birth to Yukinoshia Haruno (YH). Haruno finds her parents boring, so she decides to go back to the past to hook her mom up with Hikigaya "Hikitani" Hachiman (another HH), who she finds much more interesting. Hayato does everything Haruno wants because as her future father, he is desperate for the approval of his daughter. Yukino is wary of Haruno cause she's aware that Haruno has a weirdass Elektra Complex towards Hachiman, who's not even the actual father. Hachiman's creeped out by Haruno cause he realizes that she's also a plastic cyborg (it's how she survived her trip into the past, sorta like the Terminator).
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Jun 1, 2015 09:02
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:My personal theory is that Yukinoshita Haruno is actually Yukino's daughter from the future, and not her sister. Haruno's efforts are all for not because Hachiman ends up with Saika in the end. Just like before.
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Jun 1, 2015 12:07
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I'm purely in the futile Sensei x Hachiman camp.
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Jun 1, 2015 12:15
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chumbler posted:Yukino got some badly needed character development, though. She has so far been the most disappointing character in the show for me, mainly because she feels less like a possible person than just a bunch of traits thrown together for narrative convenience. Yeah, Yukino is the worst character by far.
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Jun 1, 2015 12:16
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chumbler posted:drat, after episode 9 it looks like it's actually Yui who's the one going for that harem ending. Finally! Someone who knows what they're talki-- chumbler posted:Edit: Note that the Yui harem comment was a joke. 
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Jun 1, 2015 12:22
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:I'm purely in the futile Sensei x Hachiman camp.
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Jun 1, 2015 14:10
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Sensei can't go out with Hikki because she's marrying me.
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Jun 1, 2015 14:14
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its already canon that sensej and hikki will marry, just play the vn. it was a very emotional wedding
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Jun 1, 2015 14:15
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la la can't hear you
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Jun 1, 2015 14:22
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hi, just popping in to say that student/teacher ships are still creepy and weird, thanks for reading.
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Jun 2, 2015 03:46
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It's my Dangun-given right as a Korean to be creepy and weird. My Korean god didn't marry a bear-turned-human-woman and give birth to the Korean Jesus so I could be told that Student x Sensei wasn't allowed.
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Jun 2, 2015 03:56
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I will tolerate Bear Jesus inspired student-teacher shipping so long as it does not show up in the show proper.
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Jun 2, 2015 04:31
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krnhotwings posted:I hope somebody will be able to entertain some more of my silly questions: Yo. So I fully intended to reply to this a while ago, and then I realized I haven't watched the first season in a while (and that's pretty key to "getting" Yukinoshita, given she hasn't had much focus in the current season), so I did that and now I think I can give some decent answers. I'll start with the most important: Yukino is, in fact, a hypocrite who fails to live up to her own standards. This is because Yukino's standards are absolutely impossible for anyone to reach- as she articulates in the first episode, she considers herself "perfect", and as such ultimately alone, because people will always be drawn to hate what they envy and don't understand. Therefore, it is her philosophy to help others improve themselves and become more perfect. Though unstated, the reason she would even bother shines through pretty clearly; Yukino obviously believes that the only way that people can understand her and include her meaningfully is to improve themselves until they reach a point where they no longer feel threatened or envious. The thing is though, when Yukino says "perfect", she actually means "genuine". The reason people aren't able to go along with her is because she can't play along with society's little games and comes off as haughty, unapproachable and impolite because of it; even worse, if she played along, she'd be being dishonest towards herself, and as such no better than the people she criticises. Much like with Hikigaya, this becomes a tool with which she can convince herself that the problem lies not with her inability to get along with others, but rather a problem inherent to societal interaction itself. The definition of 'genuine' to Yukino ultimately means that one is able to dispense with the convenient lies one wraps around one's self and be truly honest about one's abilities, goals, reasons, and especially weaknesses. Hikki and Yui appeared genuine to Yukino because they didn't shy away from harsh criticism, always acted in line with their stated goals and desires, and didn't show a hair of trying to brush over their own flaws- in fact, if you watch the first episode, you can clearly see Yukino's opinion of Yui changing from casual dismissal to shy apprehension as Yui demonstrates that she has already acknowledged the flaws Yukino sees in her, recognizes them as areas she needs to improve in, and honestly asks for help in something she knows that she can't do herself. Unlike Hikigaya however, her ultimate conclusion is that it becomes her duty to help others become honest and genuine, not that there's no worth to playing along with society. She attempts to affect change rather than sit in a corner, which ironically is the hardest thing for Hikigaya to convince himself to do. While Hikki must invent complex rationalizations of self-interest in order to take action, Yukino is able to act so long as she decides that said act is a net positive in affecting change around her- although ironically this also bars her from taking actions that are solely for her own benefit, and even worse, demonstrates that she herself is the exact sort of person she detests. Yukino needs to be perfect in order to judge the people around her, but while she can admit small personal flaws in the name of honesty, she can't fess up to her own previous inhonesty when she recognizes it- because doing that would cause everything she's constructed around her to break apart. Basically, Yukino can't even recognize her facade is a facade. She's internalized herself to such an extent that admitting she isn't who she appears to be would literally cause her to have a crisis... much like we've seen in the most recent episodes, where Hikki inadvertently revealed that Yukino was lying to herself and them in greater and lesser ways. While we don't see much of her family life so far, we do see her relationship with Haruno. Haruno is, according to Yukino's account, perfect- successful in all she does, and loved by everyone around her to boot. However, she is clearly not honest or genuine, and yet this doesn't seem to affect her in the slightest. Haruno is a living antithesis to Yukino's theory, demonstrates her weakness, and perhaps worst of all actively pities her for it. Haruno is clearly the stronger person, and Yukino exists in a world that can only hold as long as she can consider herself the effective strongest. The ironic thing is that while Yukinoshita is by far the most concerned with genuineness of the three (though all three clearly want it to some degree), she's also by far the furthest from ever achieving it. Though the latest episode seems to indicate she's starting to realize that, and is taking steps to follow Hikigaya's lead in rethinking her way of life a bit.
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Jun 2, 2015 10:54
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Contrary to some earlier posts, I think Yukino is one of the best characters of the show because she's a deeply flawed individual (as explained above.) There's lots of room for character development, and it may be slow process but it's coming.. (Priming this thread for the next episode!  )
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Jun 5, 2015 01:01
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