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precision posted:I've been accused of being an SJW for this show, and now apparently I'm also pro-bigotry. Honestly, I found the character to be cartoonishly evil. I didn't get the sense of any kind of humanity in her.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:10
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How is she "cartoonish" when there are plenty of people like her in real life?
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Jun 11, 2015 22:16
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Forgall posted:How is she "cartoonish" when there are plenty of people like her in real life?
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Jun 11, 2015 22:21
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Slamhound posted:Does a person have to understand that what they're doing is wrong to be considered evil? Actually, in my opinion, yes. That's the major defining aspect of what it means to be "evil". Hope that helps.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:34
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Slamhound posted:Does a person have to understand that what they're doing is wrong to be considered evil? precision posted:Actually, in my opinion, yes. That's the major defining aspect of what it means to be "evil". Hope that helps. That's how I see it too. No one was defending Nomi's mom or saying she hasn't done anything wrong. In other words, I don't think she's evil, just stupid.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:54
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DoctorX posted:That's how I see it too. No one was defending Nomi's mom or saying she hasn't done anything wrong. The vibe I am getting from Nomi's mom is that she wilfully chooses to ignore Nomi and everything else she doesn't like. And since Mr. Nomi's Mom apparently makes some serious cash, they have the resources to let Nomi's Mom keeping existing in her bubble of conscious ignorance...
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Jun 11, 2015 22:57
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Also, I don't think Nomi's SRS could really be reversed.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:00
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I thought that the entire thing started out very slowly, and I only really ENGAGED during "What's goin on". But that's probably an age thing, but also it's the first time they really "get together". I enjoyed the entire series as a whole, but felt that it was weak in some areas with some characters, and that basically the expectation of a season 2 was the main reason I kept watching after around #9. As an aside, I DO think it's funny when you realize this group of 8 has so many skills - an actor, a hacker, a ninja, a cop, a streetwise German killer, a medical person, a street-wise African who can hotwire a car, and uhh, a DJ. But you know, not everyone can be perfect.  My Sense8 would probably be a dude who works at Target, a crackhead, the most boring businessman in the world, a cat lady, a guy who fixes HVAC, a lesbian who cuts hair but does a crappy job, and a Nuclear Physicist who is so smart and so specialized, that none of his knowledge would ever come in handy. Hahahahaha.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:03
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precision posted:Actually, in my opinion, yes. That's the major defining aspect of what it means to be "evil". Hope that helps.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:03
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DoctorX posted:That's how I see it too. No one was defending Nomi's mom or saying she hasn't done anything wrong. Well the whole thing kicked off because someone kind of did. Kegslayer posted:Finished the series and this show seems to have a lot of potential but the writing is so frustratingly uneven. Sure, he does say her views are abhorrent, but he's also saying that she's the more sympathetic and reasonable person in that scene and that Nomi is being childish. Which is kind of bullshit. Nomi's mother was being supremely willful and stubborn when she appeared, refusing to give any kind of comfort to her daughter to help her understand what's going on, while Nomi was mostly just scared and feeling threatened. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jun 11, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 23:03
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Slamhound posted:That kinda narrows the pool to edgy 14 year olds on /b/ and excludes some of the most monstrous crimes in human history. The horrible truth about humanity is that most of the more horrible things we've done have not been out of evil, but out of ignorance. Sorry if that's a downer, but it's how I see it. e: for a silver lining, it's probably easier to educate people than make them not-evil
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Jun 11, 2015 23:04
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My cluster would be all goon, I suspect. So I could answer any question about anime, EVE, or bodypillows. 
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Jun 11, 2015 23:10
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Your skills with a katana would be unreal though
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Jun 11, 2015 23:14
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tsob posted:Sure, he does say her views are abhorrent, but he's also saying that she's the more sympathetic and reasonable person in that scene and that Nomi is being childish. Which is kind of bullshit. Nomi's mother was being supremely willful and stubborn when she appeared, refusing to give any kind of comfort to her daughter to help her understand what's going on, while Nomi was mostly just scared and feeling threatened. I definitely don't agree with the opinion you quoted. Sorry if it seemed like I did.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:17
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DoctorX posted:I definitely don't agree with the opinion you quoted. Sorry if it seemed like I did. I don't believe anyone did agree with him regarding Nomi's mother, but it's what got the whole conversation started in the first place.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:31
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precision posted:I've been accused of being an SJW for this show, and now apparently I'm also pro-bigotry. Samizdata posted:My cluster would be all goon, I suspect. So I could answer any question about anime, EVE, or bodypillows. The goon cluster: A crackhead, a let's player, an ADTRW fanatic, a furry, a person who swears by bitcoins, a person who builds a house that looks like it will topple at any moment, a person with a poor budget but always asks for money advice, and a person who is trying to sell lovely hotdogs. It goes without saying that none of them wash and eat only cheetos and mountain dew which leads to a mass suicide due to smell.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:35
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Any cluster would most likely be half Chinese + Indian males doing factory work or something... And the 'good' mother was much worse... the other mom was a fairly shallow character, but at least she wasn't annoying and her presence in those scenes served a purpose. very minor spoiler, forgot what episode this flashback took place... Could the trans girlfriend be the sister of van drat?
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Jun 11, 2015 23:43
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Piriwi posted:very minor spoiler, forgot what episode this flashback took place... I'm gonna go ahead and hope this is the case because I would cry like a baby.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:53
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I wouldn't put it past the Wachowskis to do that but do most of those babies even make it out the country? serious question
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Jun 12, 2015 00:07
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Le Saboteur posted:Sorry I tuned the gently caress out when you sympathized with Nomi's mother who refuses to properly gender and name her own child. That behaviour is what contributes to tons of suicides of trans people around the US every year, she's one of the least sympathetic characters in the whole show. Then you've missed the whole point of her character. The other posters have probably explained it better but Nomi's mom does love her child, she just doesn't understand and completely refuses to accept what her child is going through. She makes it clear that she thinks 'Michael' is this way because of the bad company that he keeps and is mentally sick in the same way that say a drug addict is and I think anyone can sympathize with that. You can't really say she doesn't love her child when Nomi gets sick and she drops everything to come find her even offering her health insurance to cover the expensive treatment payments. The show also makes it really clear that the mother's views are completely wrong and that people who identify as LGBT aren't mentally ill in anyway. tsob posted:Sure, he does say her views are abhorrent, but he's also saying that she's the more sympathetic and reasonable person in that scene and that Nomi is being childish. Which is kind of bullshit. Nomi's mother was being supremely willful and stubborn when she appeared, refusing to give any kind of comfort to her daughter to help her understand what's going on, while Nomi was mostly just scared and feeling threatened. Nomi was there not because she was transgender but because there was a real problem with her health. She was seeing visions and the doctor had diagnosed her with something terminal. I found Nomi's mother relatable in the sense that if you thought your loved one was mentally ill for years and was suddenly about to die then yeah, you can see why her mother acted and did what she did. You aren't suppose to agree with her but you can understand her and all the real life people that think being transgender is a mental illness. The show makes it clear that her views are wrong and what Nomi needed was for her mother to be a gentle and non judgmental source of support. That doesn't change the fact that Nomi's mother is a much better written three dimensional character than Nomi herself in the first couple of episodes.
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Jun 12, 2015 00:23
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Kegslayer posted:That doesn't change the fact that Nomi's mother is a much better written three dimensional character than Nomi herself in the first couple of episodes. I could almost see where you were coming from, until this line where you lost me completely.
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Jun 12, 2015 00:25
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Can we mention how loving amazing Lito's birthscene was? I really wanna know what they were watching but seriously getting born during the middle of a dramatic act on a telenovella while the whole family laughs and cheers is loving amazing. Everyone complaining about Nomi's struggle being cliche, but no one has said anything about all the other cliche's in the series. Like every single person is living out a stereotype and the others are able to help them out of that situation. Wolfgang - Berlin Gangster / Russian? Caphias - Everybody got aids Sun - Women not respected Nomi- Transgender issues Lito - Closeted gay actor in a oppressive society Icelandic Manic Pixie goth girl with troubled past Will - a cop with one unsolved case that troubles him, Dad on the force. Every single person's story is about cliche's and it's about overcoming these Commonproblems within their society with the help of their family.
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Jun 12, 2015 01:05
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Hollismason posted:Can we mention how loving amazing Lito's birthscene was? I really wanna know what they were watching but seriously getting born during the middle of a dramatic act on a telenovella while the whole family laughs and cheers is loving amazing. As a Spaniard, I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. That would never happen in real life. My favorite stereotypical scene was the one with Bollywood dancing.
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Jun 12, 2015 01:25
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Nomi is the worst character because her entire role for the majority of the series is to play the bullied victim. She has no agency and exists only to highlight how poo poo transgender people have it so that she can be saved by other people. Contrast that with well written LGBT characters like Lito or Hernando and you'll see how completely one dimensional she is.
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Jun 12, 2015 01:48
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Well, except for the part where she and Amanita actively plan and oversee the rescue op in the finale. "Team mastermind" isn't a half-bad niche for an LGBT character.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:06
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Supercar Gautier posted:Well, except for the part where she and Amanita actively plan and oversee the rescue op in the finale. "Team mastermind" isn't a half-bad niche for an LGBT character. This happens only in the last two episodes and completely out of the blue and out of character for her. Nomi spends the previous ten episodes getting poo poo on and needing someone to bail her out every single time. It wouldn't have been that hard to write a scene with her early on like helping Will crack a police database to find out where Jonas was being kept her or jumping into Lito's body to hack Joaquin/Daniela's phone to find out where they were.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:17
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Kegslayer posted:This happens only in the last two episodes and completely out of the blue and out of character for her. Nomi spends the previous ten episodes getting poo poo on and needing someone to bail her out every single time. Uh, isn't the first thing she does after breaking out of the hospital in like episode 5 or so, track the doctor down and jack his phone and trace all his poo poo to start to piece together the poo poo behind it all? That's hardly sittin' around on her rear end, waiting to be saved. They could have maybe done more with her in general, but she's not the completely passive nothing you seem to think she is.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:21
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Kegslayer posted:Nomi was there not because she was transgender but because there was a real problem with her health. She was seeing visions and the doctor had diagnosed her with something terminal. Can you try to rationalize how Nomi is being childish by being scared and seeking comfort and respect when she wakes up in a hospital following an accident and the mother who has traumatized her in the past refuses to allow her any dignity or comfort too out of interest? Your entire argument appears to be that Nomi is too cliche and either has it too perfect or too terrible. Or too terribly perfect. You think she's a Mary Sue essentially? I'd take umbrage with the first at least just based on the fact that I can't recall seeing any other transgender characters in television full stop, so her being a cliche seems impossible viewed under that light. Maybe a cliche as a victim of bigotry in general instead of transgender bigotry specifically, but even then she's not nearly the victim you paint her since once she's out of the hospital she tries to take control of the situation pretty much immediately, even if not always with success. She's in the hospital maybe two episodes? Three? She spends far more out than in regardless. It's not like she's alone in that either. Kala, Capheus and Sun are all pretty much the same too, in that they're always good and right and just the victim of lovely circumstances beyond their control. The characters in the show are quite simplistic morally, you're just focusing in on her for some reason.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:23
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Kegslayer posted:This happens only in the last two episodes and completely out of the blue and out of character for her. Nomi spends the previous ten episodes getting poo poo on and needing someone to bail her out every single time. This is nonsense. You complain that she's a victim, but when it's pointed out that she stops being one and figures out how to fight back, you complain that it's out of character. Ridiculous.
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Jun 12, 2015 02:26
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My original point was that this is a good show but the writing is really uneven and then I gave an example. When it comes to the LGBT characters, Lito and Hernando are written well but Nomi is not.xeria posted:Uh, isn't the first thing she does after breaking out of the hospital in like episode 5 or so, track the doctor down and jack his phone and trace all his poo poo to start to piece together the poo poo behind it all? That's hardly sittin' around on her rear end, waiting to be saved. They could have maybe done more with her in general, but she's not the completely passive nothing you seem to think she is. And then she gets in over her head and needs to be saved by Dr Mathias when Whispers comes. When she's stuck in the hospital? Her girlfriend and Will come to save her. When she's running away from the cops? The sensate band together in an awesome scene to save her. When she returns home desolute? Her girlfriend comes back to cheer her up and her old friend drops by just at the right time with everything she needs. Do you see my point? tsob posted:Can you try to rationalize how Nomi is being childish by being scared and seeking comfort and respect when she wakes up in a hospital following an accident and the mother who has traumatized her in the past refuses to allow her any dignity or comfort too out of interest? Your entire argument appears to be that Nomi is too cliche and either has it too perfect or too terrible. Or too terribly perfect. You think she's a Mary Sue essentially? I'd take umbrage with the first at least just based on the fact that I can't recall seeing any other transgender characters in television full stop, so her being a cliche seems impossible viewed under that light. Maybe a cliche as a victim of bigotry in general instead of transgender bigotry specifically, but even then she's not nearly the victim you paint her since once she's out of the hospital she tries to take control of the situation pretty much immediately, even if not always with success. She's in the hospital maybe two episodes? Three? She spends far more out than in regardless. My argument is that Nomi is a badly written one dimensional character in the majority of the series. Her role is to play the damsel in distress, have bad things happen to her and then be saved by someone else. I'm sorry but its just lovely writing and my original point was that even her mother, who's only in like two scenes, is better written than her. We're only talking about Nomi because some other poster jumped on my pile of  but she isn't the only badly written character.Kala, is another example but Capheus and Sun are not.
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Jun 12, 2015 03:17
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Piriwi posted:Any cluster would most likely be half Chinese + Indian males doing factory work or something... That's impossible. Members of clusters are all born at the same time
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Jun 12, 2015 04:41
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Postal Parcel posted:That's impossible. Members of clusters are all born at the same time How does that make the theory impossible?
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Jun 12, 2015 05:02
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qbert posted:How does that make the theory impossible? Twin's don't actually come out of a vagina at the same time, one comes out first then the next one. They're not technically "born" at the same time
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Jun 12, 2015 05:05
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Cool tip, to keep your theories in order: there's no reason Amanita has to have been born at or near the same time as anyone in the cluster.
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Jun 12, 2015 05:06
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Hollismason posted:Twin's don't actually come out of a vagina at the same time, one comes out first then the next one. They're not technically "born" at the same time Nomi's girlfriend is not a Sens8, and also Van drat is a few years older than his sister. So...what is this twin talk?
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Jun 12, 2015 05:08
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Supercar Gautier posted:Cool tip, to keep your theories in order: there's no reason Amanita has to have been born at or near the same time as anyone in the cluster.  The actual issue wouldn't be that, it's just a matter of Amanita not being awakened alongside her cluster if they made her Capheus' long lost sister. She would just simply belong to a different cluster.
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Jun 12, 2015 05:18
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Sober posted:Amanita not being awakened alongside her cluster See I think this may be your problem.
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Jun 12, 2015 05:20
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Where did this assumption come from that the siblings of Sens8 are also Sens8? Sun has a brother who is not Sens8. Nomi has a sister who is not Sens8. There's no evidence it's a hereditary thing.
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Jun 12, 2015 05:22
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qbert posted:How does that make the theory impossible? Oh crap, I misread that as "Is Nomi the sister of Capheus" instead of "Is Nomi's girlfriend the sister of Capheus" 
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Jun 12, 2015 05:23
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I just binged watched this whole series in like 2-3 days and I'm hooked. Definitely love the concept and the characters. Lito is hilarious, Sun and Van Damm are badass. I didn't care too much for Riley though. Hopefully next season they flesh out the Whispers a bit more and go into detail more about Clusters and how they are born or whatever I loved the last episode where each sense8 pitched in to rescue pixie goth daenerys Also that transcontinental mind orgy was hot It would have been hilarious if one of the Sense8s were a bigoted southern baptist who kept accidentally popping in on the gay couples. LazyDivey fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 12, 2015 20:15
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