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Hell yeah, no run and gun in my run and gun game.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:34
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Seriously, no one is going to mention The Chasm? It has everything: sludge pits, platforming (with added bonus of cacodemons flying around, good luck avoiding them with infinite tall actors flag), random teleporters, one sector wide catwalks around and truly incoherent progression. Also, big gently caress you to the Barrels of Fun and the archvile placement on this map. Nothing more fun than avoiding invisible monsters with infinite range of attack while trying to strafe jump.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:56
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Confession: every time somebody mentioned "The Pit" I mentally envisioned "The Chasm" instead, and was wondering why people were defending that map. But MAP09? Nah, man, MAP09's fine. So is "Barrels of Fun". Shadow Hog fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 19:04
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I am ashamed to say I don't actually like most of the levels in Doom 2 and I think a lot of them could have been improved in several ways (complexity of the layout vs complexity of the detailing, etc). Maybe I have been spoiled by good mods.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:07
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You shouldn't be ashamed because a lot of people agree with you
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Jun 15, 2016 19:08
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They were sort of hit and miss, yeah, but they were more varied than Doom 1's in that a lot of them were built around a single theme or gimmick.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:10
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Arivia posted:Downtown is really good too.  E: holy poo poo I forgot about The Chasm. It's like my brain erases it as soon as it's over because it never comes to mind when I think of lovely Doom levels when it absolutely should. Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 19:17
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laserghost posted:3) Well, that's super weird. Does any other levelset shows such discoloration? Alien Vendetta can be played on ZDoom or prBoom without loss of compatibility. Hmm, I tested it in normal ZDoom and the graphics were fine. It might be some problems in the OpenGL stuff in GZDoom.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:36
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Alien Vendetta looks fine in GZDoom, though. I mean, okay, there's a self-referencing sector or fake floor (not sure which, same end result really) used to access a secret in MAP01 that glitches the graphics out when you go into it, because your view ends up going below the renderer's floor for that sector, but that's pretty much the only instance I can remember of Alien Vendetta getting kinda glitchy on modern source ports.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:50
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The Chasm is a good map because you can skip about half of it by abusing the teleporters.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:09
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laserghost posted:Seriously, no one is going to mention The Chasm? It has everything: sludge pits, platforming (with added bonus of cacodemons flying around, good luck avoiding them with infinite tall actors flag), random teleporters, one sector wide catwalks around and truly incoherent progression. been a while since i've posted here! anyway, i heard about chasm the rift after i played cryostasis since it was by the same developers. besides being a mildly decent quake 1-alike, one of my favorite things about it was the strong focus on atmosphere and attention to detail on the maps and sound design. each map had a unique soundscape and feel, which is something i really liked.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:15
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I mean, we were talking about Doom 2 MAP24: "The Chasm", not Chasm: The Rift, but that's still one title I'd like to try at some point.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:21
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I just played a couple of hours of Hexen. How the hell are you supposed to do anything in this game without jumping lol. It's obtuse as gently caress
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Jun 15, 2016 21:30
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I'm pretty sure Hexen added a jump button. At least, the N64 version had one, so it stands to reason the PC version did too.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:32
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Humans Among Us posted:I just played a couple of hours of Hexen. How the hell are you supposed to do anything in this game without jumping lol. It's obtuse as gently caress
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Jun 15, 2016 21:32
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So i didn't totally cheat my way thru half of the Puzzle whatever the hell that is haha. All these areas with steps that are just 2 pixels too high to walk onto them, i was like, i probably need a switch somewhere to lower this but gently caress it
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Jun 15, 2016 21:35
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Humans Among Us posted:I just played a couple of hours of Hexen. How the hell are you supposed to do anything in this game without jumping lol. It's obtuse as gently caress You can jump in Hexen and also in Strife.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:36
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I have Strife Redux but i don't remember really jumping anywhere, oh wait yeah you can jump over the lasers and poo poo that's right Not exactly sure why i'm not playing that game instead.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:38
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Hexen would be even more of a frustrating mess if it didn't have a jump button because there's parts where you have to do ice physics platforming over bottomless instant death pits.
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Jun 15, 2016 23:15
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Shadow Hog posted:Alien Vendetta looks fine in GZDoom, though. Yeah that was the sector where I referenced "yellow nukage". Good to know the real issue with that. Still doesn't explain why the doors are so dark in GZDoom and not regular ZDoom though. EDIT: Ah, the Sector Light setting was on Dark for some reason. Changing it fixed the issue. Dreamsicle fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 23:26
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Dreamsicle posted:Yeah that was the sector where I referenced "yellow nukage". Good to know the real issue with that. Still doesn't explain why the doors are so dark in GZDoom and not regular ZDoom though. Thank you for posting this, it turns out that Dark is the default for sector light in GZDoom instead of standard (or software) for some reason. I was wondering why dark-ish areas quickly became pitch black for me!
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Jun 16, 2016 00:20
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Mostly it's inertia. Dark is an eyeballed attempt at imitating the light falloff from software in OpenGL; software is a relatively recent addition using shaders and contributed by a third party -- so I count already three reasons why it's not the default. As for standard, it's not Doom standard, it's OpenGL standard. It doesn't look at all like software.
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Jun 16, 2016 00:57
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Cat Mattress posted:Mostly it's inertia. Dark is an eyeballed attempt at imitating the light falloff from software in OpenGL; software is a relatively recent addition using shaders and contributed by a third party -- so I count already three reasons why it's not the default. Legacy mode is Doom standard right?
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Jun 16, 2016 01:24
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Dreamsicle posted:Legacy mode is Doom standard right? No, Software is Doom Standard. Legacy mode is Doom Legacy's botched GL lighting, and "Standard" is the standard linear GL lighting curve.
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Jun 16, 2016 01:31
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Is it foul play to require finding secrets on Ultra-Violence in order for the player to have enough health and ammo to score 100% kills? let me make it clear: Monster placement is such that on lower difficulties, health and ammo shouldn't be much of a problem. I kinda want to make exploration mandatory on U-V. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 01:43
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I think generally it's a bad idea to limit resources like that unless you are able to somehow make it clear that that's the case. I dunno how you would do that, though.
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Jun 16, 2016 01:44
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That does not sound like fun.
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Jun 16, 2016 01:46
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A.o.D. posted:Is it foul play to require finding secrets on Ultra-Violence in order for the player to have enough health and ammo to score 100% kills? I would say as long as you signpost them to some extent, you're good. The chainsaw in E1M2 is a good example: you can see the secret area really easily by just taking a slight detour, but getting to it is a bit more of a trick.
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Jun 16, 2016 01:47
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I would say as long as you signpost them to some extent, you're good. The chainsaw in E1M2 is a good example: you can see the secret area really easily by just taking a slight detour, but getting to it is a bit more of a trick. Everything so far has a traditional doom signpost. A misaligned texture or different texture, an obvious path in a lava area, or a slightly out of reach place that looks like it might have something in it. I don't have any mapping experience, but I do have a lot of playing experience, so I'm using what I believe to be traditional Doom secret placement language. Here's my latest version: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwC0_bVs2ISnNE1ILVQ4Q0k4bkE Try it on a few different difficulties and tell me how BS it is so far. It's maybe half done at this point, I have an idea for two big areas to add. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 01:55
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A.o.D. posted:Is it foul play to require finding secrets on Ultra-Violence in order for the player to have enough health and ammo to score 100% kills? The polite way to do this is to stuff some of the monsters into the secret areas, and leave enough ammo/health outside the secret areas to handle or nearly handle all monsters in non-secret parts of the level. Particularly since you mention UV why not make some monsters that only show on UV have their placements in the secret areas on hard difficulties. fishmech fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 01:57
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It also depends a bit on what you're trying to accomplish in general, I'd say. There are wads/maps that put a heavy emphasis on exploration and careful scrutiny of the environment (Hell Ground, Memento Mori, Rylayeh, Epic 2, etc.). For those, requiring secrets to complete everything feels appropriate because it ties into the general theme that you're trying to present. Conversely, some maps focus primarily on the combat elements (Ancient Aliens, the various Slaughterfests, Scythe, etc.). Having to stop and track down secrets would bother me much more in one of them because it messes with the hectic pacing they're trying to present.
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Jun 16, 2016 02:07
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I hope it doesn't come across as a slaughter map. It's a bunch of self contained set pieces so far, and I don't see deviating from that formula. I'm not going to make you deal with 30+ monsters at once. You'd have to go blazing through multiple rooms to do that. So far the biggest fight I've got is 20 monsters, and most of that is imps and lost souls. edit: Yes, that's as far as I've gotten. How many secrets have you found? Also, what do you think so far? A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 02:10
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Just to clarify, the map currently ends at the elevator with the Baron of Hell on the right and a switch leading to a wall on the left side, right?
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Jun 16, 2016 02:26
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Romero makes these aesthetically pleasing levels grounded in their own bizarro alien logic. Computer Complex? Sure, I'll buy it. Sandy Petersen is just going "gently caress it" the whole time. No interesting theme, just bullshit thrown against the wall. This is supposed to be a star port? What ?  ?It's like Goofus and Gallant. I want to live in the alternate universe where Romero designed all of Doom II's levels.
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Jun 16, 2016 02:48
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A.o.D. posted:edit: Yes, that's as far as I've gotten. How many secrets have you found? Also, what do you think so far? It's a bit difficult to give feedback on an unfinished map, but here's what I got. I played on UV with no mouselook, no jumping, and infinitely tall actors turned off. - I've found five secrets so far: the Shellbox in the starting room, the Soulsphere in the water, the Backpack near the Chaingun, the Megasphere and Super Shotgun in the lava area, and the Rocket Launcher beside the lift. All of them were pretty easy to find (it's almost impossible to miss the Soulsphere when you're trying to dodge the Sergeants). There's also a green switch outside of the red door and a lion switch in the darkness area, which I assume are tied to secrets, but I couldn't find out how to activate them. - I did a second run of the map where I deliberately didn't find any secrets, and the ammo balance seemed fine. I was never really hurting for shells or bullets. - Having to kill the Baron of Hell without a Super Shotgun or Rocket Launcher is a bit of a nuisance, though. Maybe change him to a Hell Knight. It's not like the extra health makes him any more difficult, especially since he can't move out of his little cubicle. - Giving the player a Megasphere seems a bit overkill, given that the map isn't too challenging, and there's already a Soulsphere. Just finding the Super Shotgun feels like enough of a help. Then again, I don't know what you have planned for the second half of the stage. - I liked some of the stylistic flourishes, like the Imp house having a door on the side or the water flowing into the waterfall in the green armour area. Makes the place feel more alive and interconnected. - Speaking of the water area, the Sergeant ambush at the start is pretty RNG-heavy since there's no cover and no real room to dodge. Giving the player a free Shotgun would mitigate this issue to an extent. - In the lava area, there are two Chaingunners who don't do anything. Dunno what's up with that. - Having the trap with the Cacos and Pain Elementals open when you shoot at it is a great "oh crap" moment, but also makes it a bit too easy to simply avoid them. Maybe add an additional trigger when you reach the open area with the second ambush, so it's possible that an inattentive player can get trapped in-between them. - I absolutely despise that slow moving lift at the end of the map (if you've ever played map 03 of Ryalyeh, you'll understand). Why not just make it a normal lift rather than one that raises on its own? - There are a couple of graphical oddities I noticed when playing this on ZDoom.  The skybox in this area looks cut off. It's not really apparent in the screenshot, but it's very noticeable when you see it in motion.  This is right before the door that leads to the Chaingun room.  I don't know if the two triangles in the ceiling are intentional, but they look weird to me. Samuel Clemens fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 03:12
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Samuel Clemens posted:It's a bit difficult to give feedback on an unfinished map, but here's what I got. I played on UV with no mouselook, no jumping, and infinitely tall actors turned off. Thanks for the feedback. You haven't found them all yet. The green switch is just a stylistic touch to break up the monotony of the water treatment plant. The lion switch in the darkness isn't implemented yet. The intention of the first shotgunner area was for you to use the other former humans as cover by just hanging back. I wanted to punish you for rushing in. They do almost no damage at all if you hang back and snipe with the pistol, and the layout of the walkway in the water treatment tank means that they're shooting at each other to shoot you. The baron of hell is a completely optional fight that, really, seems like an unnecessary gently caress you that serves no purpose, especially in such close quarters. Nothing is triggered by shooting at it. All of the ambushes are triggered by walkover. Making it so that the cross room ambush happens at the same time as the PE+caco one seems... rude. I think that you're right about the megasphere, especially at that point in the game. Maybe a blue armor instead? I made the slow moving auto lift because I am not good at making maps and couldn't figure out how to make it go up and down and a) bypass the secret and b) not get the player stuck. Thanks for pointing out the graphical wierdness, I'll try to do something about that. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 03:29
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A.o.D. posted:The intention of the first shotgunner area was for you to use the other former humans as cover by just hanging back. I wanted to punish you for rushing in. They do almost no damage at all if you hang back and snipe with the pistol, and the layout of the walkway in the water treatment tank means that they're shooting at each other to shoot you. That's fair. It's not my preferred approach, but it's also not a design decision I can fault in any way. A.o.D. posted:Nothing is triggered by shooting at it. All of the ambushes are triggered by walkover. I could've sworn it activated when I shot the Imp to the right. I guess I must have simultaneously walked over the line without realising it. A.o.D. posted:Making it so that the cross room ambush happens at the same time as the PE+caco one seems... rude. True, but it is UV. You're allowed to be a bit of a dick to the player. 
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Jun 16, 2016 03:41
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Samuel Clemens posted:That's fair. It's not my preferred approach, but it's also not a design decision I can fault in any way. Yeah, but I don't want to be a dick on ITYTD. I'm worried that might be too much. Then again, I did heavily scale both fights on easy. I'll think about it.
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Jun 16, 2016 03:44
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newmans_owned posted:been a while since i've posted here! Hello fellow Chasm:The Rift fan! Yes, this game has great atmosphere, mostly helped by really great textures and decorative models. Strange Aeons use a lot of those textures and it also add to mods' overall quality. Have you played the three-level addon?
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Jun 16, 2016 04:53
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I got really mad trying to run Chasm on my Windows 98 machine until I figured out that having scroll/num lock on is what makes the keyboard stop working I reformatted 3 times trying to troubleshoot that...
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Jun 16, 2016 05:46
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