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Chemmy
Feb 4, 2001



First thread: here (archives required)
Second thread: here
Third thread: here
Fourth thread: here
Fifth thread: here

Monoprice.com has cheap cables!

Table of Contents:

1. An intro to HDTV
2. Useful terms
3. HDTV technology
4. Purchasing an HDTV
5. Input, Cables, and Calibration
6. Warranties
7. Setup

1. An intro to HDTV - 720p, 1080i, and other basics

Utnayan posted:

Traditionally, TV has been broadcast at 480i (Called SDTV - Chemmy). This means 480 interlaced. The frame of the picture is scanned every other line down, and then once again every other line up, which then creates the frame for that specific sequence. There is also EDTV. Which stands for enhanced definition television. More or less this is 480p, or 480 progressive, which means the entire frame for that particular shot is scanned in one pass, which creates a clearer picture with virtually no flicker. More or less if you see a set advertised as an EDTV, about the most performance you will get out of it is a set that will be able to support an incoming signal from a progressive scan DVD player, or a game console which is able to send a 480p signal. Enter HDTV, which has a couple different formats. 720p, and 1080i respectively. Right now these are the two formats battling for supremacy in HDTV land. 1080i is the standard used for most stations now, with ABC and ESPN (possibly a couple others) still hanging on to 720p.

When dealing with HDTV sets, they each have their own native display format. This means the signal which it can support as displaying without alteration of that signal via downconverting or upconverting (which I will touch on in a minute) This native display will either be 1080i or 720p. Most, if not all, LCD fixed displays will support 720p natively. Most RPTV's, CRT's - will support 1080i natively.

Here comes the tricky part. A lot of the less expensive sets out there, and even some of the others, will only accept either a 720p signal, or 1080i signal. If it sees a signal come in that it doesn't natively support, the set will downconvert the signal to 480p automatically so it can display the image. For example, you have a 51" Model WS500/510 that displays 1080i as it's native resolution. The program you are trying to view, or the game you are trying to play, is transmitting at 720p. This particular set will see the 720p signal, and downconvert this to 480p. Making this particular set, when receiving anything but 1080i native signals, essentially nothing more than a glorified EDTV.

There are now more and more sets coming out that will finally upconvert. For instance I just bought a 34" Sony CRT tube based HDTV set. If this set sees a 720p signal coming, it will automatically upconvert the signal to 1080i so I still receive the signal in HD. The basis for all this is to make sure that you are purchasing a set which will upconvert 720p to 1080i if you are going with a set that natively supports 1080i, and not downconvert to 480p. This is very important, and should be reflected in your purchase. Especially when games on the Xbox 360 (and other consoles) will be coming in both formats.

So the next big question is determining the right set for you. This all depends on the subjective layout of your home theater, lighting, budget, gaming area, and personal preference. I'll attempt to cover each of the technologies, their plusses and minuses. Most of these will be heavily related to gaming, but will also cover home theater.

HDTV resolutions:

code:
 Name           Resolution     Refresh Mode
 ----           ----------     ------------
 480i [SDTV]    640x480        Interlaced
 480p [EDTV]    640x480        Progressive
 720p [HDTV]    1280x720       Progressive
1080i [HDTV]    1920x1080      Interlaced
1080p [HDTV]    1920x1080      Progressive
Progressive vs. Interlaced
Your television draws lines on the screen 60 times a second. If your TV's resolution was 8x6, it would look like this:

code:
X X X X X X X X
O O O O O O O O
X X X X X X X X
O O O O O O O O
X X X X X X X X
O O O O O O O O
An interlaced TV means that the first 1/60th of a second, the TV draws the odd numbered lines, like this:
code:
X X X X X X X X

X X X X X X X X

X X X X X X X X

The second 1/60th of a second it draws the even numbered lines, like this:
code:
O O O O O O O O

O O O O O O O O

O O O O O O O O
A progressive resolution would refresh the entire picture once every 1/60th of a second. Because of this, some people claim that progressive resolutions are smoother than interlaced resolution.

1080i and 720p display roughly the same amount of video information in the same time frame.

2. Useful terms

Utnayan posted:

Burn in: Static images that if left on over time, will leave a permanent fixed image on your screen.

Convergence: Manually targeting a series of points over the screen as a whole to properly align the guns that project a picture on a TV set.

Upconvert: Takes an incoming signal and adjusts it so it can still display it in HDTV format.

Downconvert: Takes an incoming signal and downgrades it to be viewable by the set. Usually this means it will convert an image out of HDTV and force it into EDTV because it cannot accept a native 720p signal. But recently it also means if it receives a 1080i signal, it can downconvert it to 720p so the TV can still take advantage of the HD source.

3. HDTV Technology:

Utnayan posted:

CRT - Traditional tube based TV sets:

Advantages: These sets are terrific for gaming. They require no manual convergence and are pretty much ready to go out of the box (with a few tweaks I will get to later). The picture quality is second to none (from my subjective opinion). Tube based sets are still subjected to burn in, but not nearly a scale as to which Plasma's and RPTV's are. Most sets will upconvert 720p to 1080i, with most CRT's natively supporting 1080i. Contrast ratio and brightness are fabulous, and you can easily adjust the picture depending on the light source without worrying about torching the tubes over an extended period of time. You do not have to worry about dead pixels, or running out of plasma.

Disadvantages: Cost is higher than some other sets. Weight and size also plays a key issue. Some are deeper than normal. For instance, my Sony 34" HDTV clocks in at around 200 pounds. It doesn't seem like much, but with it's bulk makes it almost impossible to try and get into different positions without help of at least two people that lift weights regularly. There is still minor screen burn issues, but nothing to really worry about unless you leave the same static image on for 45 days straight. Expect though to pay about the same price for a 34" CRT HDTV depending on the brand) as you would for a 46-51" RPTV.

Utnayan posted:

LCD TV's:

Advantages: Lightweight, usually a more refined picture. Depending on versatility can usually be used with a PC or set top media center. Screen burn is non existant so static images over time will not hurt the set. You do not have to run a manual convergence. Of course these sets are much smaller in scope, and very easy to carry around if you want to move your set up a lot.

Disadvantages: Most companies require a lot of dead pixels before they will take them back under warranty. Blacks are more grey-ish and are not deep or rich true blacks. Lamp replacement is usually not convered under warranty and will sometimes hit in the $300 dollar price range within 2-4 years. Depending on the set, you can really get screwed if you do not watch for low reaction times. Preferably a 16 Ms reaction time would be good enough for most gamers, but if you are an enthusiast, you may want even lower. Price is still pretty high and when comparing what can happen to an LCD set with the cost, and what is and not covered, you really have to weigh your options. Also watch for contrast ratios and CD/M brightness quality. A lot of sets on the market now and using lower tier OEM LCD screens to hit certain price points. For the most part, cheaper isn't better.

Utnayan posted:

CRT RPTV's

Advantages: Deep rich blacks that almost come close to the level of a CRT based tube TV. Very good color quality. Do not have to worry about dead pixels or plasma charge. High amount of screen display for a relatively lower cost. For instance, my Sony 34" HDTV was the same price as the Sony 51" WS520 rear projection set. Decent vertical viewability. Most parts are readily available, and if you can get a hold of a service manual, you could probably teach yourself how to repair the set. Most of these sets are very cost effective.

Disadvantages: Screen burn is more rampant than traditional tube based sets. Convergence is a must, and you will learn whether you want to or not how to converge these sets on your own. Service level convergence (where you enter the service menu of a set via a set of codes on your remote) is about 60 times better than any auto convergence or manual convergence through a regular menu system. If you move your set, be prepared to reconverge. Also, these things are massive. So if you have limited depth space, you may want to think twice. Analog television doesn't look good either. Very grainy. Games look decent as long as the set is converged. One of the major downfalls is that these sets traditionally accept 1080i native resolution only. And about 95% of them downconvert to 480p. So if you have a game which displays 720p, you are out of luck. Ask your HDTV provider if the set top they will lease you will upconvert 720 to 1080i at the source. Usually these set tops are good at doing this, albeit some loss of quality. These sets have amazing potential, but usually an ISF calibrator is needed to really see the true potential of the RPTV. These guys come to your house and spend upwards of 8-10 hours with various equipment to bring you the best picture possible. They also charge about $500.00. If you get a Best Buy rep selling you a warranty saying it includes a free ISF calibration per year, kick him or her in the genital region, head butt them in the face, and walk out of the store.


Flashdance posted:

LCD RPTVs:

Advantages: Lightweight and shallow, similar to a DLP set; not as thin as a "true" LCD. Typically uses 3 small LCD panels (red/green/blue) to create an image, which is then projected onto the larger screen. Because the image is projected, an LCD RPTV is much cheaper than a true LCD of the same size. An LCD RPTV still offers all of the benefits of LCD technology: the picture is usually more refined, screen burn is non-existant, and because no CRT is involved, there is no need for convergence. The viewing angle is also typically excellent and the picture very bright.

Disadvantages: Same as those of true LCDs. The big ones are dead pixel problems, spotty black quality, and, because of the projection aspect, the need for periodic lamp replacement. LCD reaction time is still an issue with some sets. Some users will notice a "screen door" effect, where a very slight spacing between pixels occurs if you look closely. Price is higher than a standard RPTV, but the difference is not nearly as high as it was; expect to find an LCD RPTV priced slightly less than a comparably-sized DLP.

Utnayan posted:

DLP:

Advantages: These sets are above RPTV's in quality without the hassle of convergence. There is no possibility for screen burn. They are relatively light and thin, and put out an amazing picture. Colors are fantastic, although sometimes blacks have a bit of a problem although I have never noticed it myself personally. They are not as bulky as a traditional CRT based set or RPTV, and resemble more of an LCD case look. There can be a bit of a rainbow effect depending on the set you purchase. There are some manufacturers now that are combating the rainbow effect with a new feature.

Disadvantages: Blacks sometimes have what is called a "Rainbow" effect. Meaning sometimes you can see various colors in a black because of the way DLP works depending on the reflections. Lamp replacement usually every 2-3 years at a cost of around $300.00 or so. As of this point they are pretty expensive over RPTV based sets. One of the biggest limiting factors at the moment is the way games are handled. Now, some sets are immune to this, and others are having some problems. There is sufficient lag being reported from reaction time with the controller, to the set reacting to the image and displaying said image. Some samsung's are being hit hard with this, and they have yet to react to the problem. Some sets even in the same model line up are completely immune and not showing any signs. Most, if not all, of these sets natively support 720p and upconvert to 1080i. Which can be a blessing or not depending on how it goes in the way of HDTV.


Utnayan posted:

Plasma:

Advantages: Great picture display, very nice colors. Better black levels than LCD but still fail a bit in comparison next to a direct view CRT set. These are also very thin and easy to hang on a wall or attach to a mounting rack. Prices have dropped and continue to drop for Plasmas with introduction of other technologies.

Disadvantages: Screen burn susceptibility more so then RPTV's especially in initial setup. Black levels are better than LCD but still pale a bit in comparison to a direct view CRT.

Note: The EDTV trap of Plasmas has all but vanished for the most part. Make sure if you purchase a Plasma you are checking the life of the display overall, and double check to make sure the resolutions aren't off the wall numbers.

Chemmy posted:

LCoS:

"Liquid crystal on silicon (LCOS or LCoS) is a "micro-projection" or "micro-display" technology typically applied in projection televisions. It is a reflective technology similar to DLP projectors; however, it uses liquid crystals instead of individual mirrors. This is contrary to LCD projectors which use a transmissive approach. In LCoS, liquid crystals are applied directly to the surface of a silicon chip coated with an aluminized layer which is highly reflective. (There might also be a "polyimide alignment layer".) As the liquid crystals open and close, the light is either reflected from the mirror below, or blocked. This modulates the light and creates the image.

LCOS technology requires less optical-quality glass than do liquid crystal display and plasma display technologies, which makes it less expensive to implement in such devices as televisions." - Wikipedia

Advantages: The Sony SXRD is the only LCoS TV I can think of, and it's a 1080p monster. The Jizzer said that JVC's D-ILA line of TVs are also LCoS, but apparently JVC isn't known for their build quality.

Disadvantages: The Sony SXRD is expensive. As time goes on, the price of LCoS will drop.

5. Purchasing an HDTV

Utnayan posted:

watch out for sales tricks. When you go into a best buy or circuit city, you'll know more about these sets then they could ever hope to know. Things to look out for:

1> Make sure the set upconverts 720p to 1080i if the set you purchase natively supports 1080i. Although this is becoming less of a problem being that most set top boxes and consoles will do the upconverting for you, there still may be times when the TV set in question can do it better, or you may have an older set top that doesn't do this for you.

2> Make sure the set has an HDMI input.

3> Make sure you have enough component inputs on the set, or purchase a receiver that you can use as a switch.

4> Warranty plans do not cover ISF calibration.

5> Do not fall for the EDTV trap. Even though this is declining, some sets appear to be very good deals only to find when you get them home they only accept a 480p signal and are not truly high definition.

Input, Cables, and Calibration

Utnayan posted:

1> Composite/RCA: This is the worst possible connection you can use. If your set supports S-video, please use it. Composite basically ties every signal into one cable and throws it at the set.

2> S-video: A huge upgrade from Composite. Basically the color seperation is done within the same cable, but has it's own dedicated line. Hence it looks like a PS/2 mouse adapter plug. Every small wire that connects to the S-video female port (Hot) carries it's own signal for richer color seperation and less signal degradation.

3> Component: If you have a set that has component but does not support progressive scan, the improvement is minimal. You may as well stay with S-video. If you have a set that supports progressive scan however, switch to Component and start using 480p. The difference is amazing. Remember, you cannot display a 480p picture using S-video or composite. Only Component and up.

4> DVI: A pure sigital connection that was designed to for copyright protected HD data over cable, sat, etc. It isn't going to be used much anymore unless you are a PC user.

5> HDMI - A new digital connection that can carry the audio and the video in the same connection. Purely digital - and will most likely take hold in the coming years. You will want your set to have HDMI, if anything because it will free up component inputs.

6> Just because a set has component input, doesn't mean that the set supports 480p. If you are looking for a lower end set, some can be deceiving. Make sure you verify if a set can support 480 progressive.

Also a quick word on DVD players. There is a new product out there with regard to DVD players that will upconvert a DVD to 1080i or 720p at the source. This will usually require an HDMI connection.

A lot of people are buying into these thinking they will be able to pop in their DVD's and instantly get HD resolution. This couldn't be further from the truth. In actuality, a 480i source (DVD) being upconverted to 720p or 1080i at the DVD player itself and then passed through another cable looks no different in blind tests than a good 480p DVD player. For example, my Kardon Progressive scan player for $199.99 looks better than a Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, LG - upconverting DVD player in 1080i. And the thing with this is, most of these players are terrible when used through their component outputs. Depending on where you go, HDMI cables can cost a fortune. Even online. Be careful.

Monster Cables: Whether or not this is the popular opinion, I am going to state mine. These are a complete 100% rip off. Over my years in setting up home theaters for friends and doing it for myself, a decent shielded cable from radio shack for $19.99 perform just as good as a $150.00 monster cable which will radiate nitrous oxide from it's bowels and make you laugh at the infidels using RCA hook ups. Do not let anyone sell you on these things. There are going to be people that swear by this, and for that I will just say it is placebo effect at it's finest. If you spend that amount of money, you will be convinced it looks better just because you paid the extra cash. The only thing you want to concern yourself with is to make sure the cable is shielded to keep out surrounding noise from penetrating the cable when transmitting the signal. Gold plated connections do seem to work a little better with picture quality, but you can find the same gold plated connections for about $5.00 more.

A word on Avia and calibration DVD programs.

There are DVD's that you can purchase that come with tinted colored glasses that guide you through a process to get the best picture out of your set for whichever room you have it in. It will go through brightness levels, contrast, tint, color, sharpness, etc - and at the end you will have an optimized picture.

THX DVD's comes with their own optimizer if you do not want to spend extra money on personal calibration. You can run these tests from any normal DVD player and select the THX options from the DVD movie itself.

THX also has a sound test to make sure you have correctly set up your sound system. While not as in depth as something on Avia, you still have enough to work with to make sure your speakers are correctly placed.

6. Warranties

Utnayan posted:

This is kind of a tough one. 7% of people who purchase a warranty actually use them. One time though it saved my rear end on a 51" Sony RPTV that shipped with a defective engineering flaw and I ended up getting a brand new set/new model. I purchased one with my 34" HDTV Sony. It was $199.99 and gives me peace of mind for a $1500 purchase. With that said if you can call the manufacturer to do warranty service, do it. Not a knock on technicians from super stores, but technicians from the mom and pop stores that are authorized by the manufacturer have better service, follow through, and want to see you happy. On a side note, if you can purchase a set from one of these smaller stores, you may pay an additional $100-200 more, but the service you receive for the life of your product will pay for it in the long run.

7. Setup

qirex posted:

Viewing distance calculator:
http://www.myhometheater.homestead....calculator.html
Contrary to popular belief it is very possible to get a TV that's too big.

16:9 and 4:3 size calculator:
http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi
This can give you a good idea of what you're in for as far as watching SD on a 16:9 set or vice-versa. I'm of the opinion that stretching and zooming is for suckas and if you watch a lot of TV or play older games a lot a 4:3 still might be the best choice.

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Chemmy
Feb 4, 2001



1080p vs. 720p

HDGuru.com posted:

http://hdguru.com/?p=34

1080p displays are defined as HDTVs with a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 that refresh the entire image every 1/60th of a second

The Claim

1080p displays are the only HDTVs you should consider buying.

The Reality

The concept of a 1080p being the only HDTV you should purchase is a misinformed generalization. This myth has been perpetuated by various HDTV manufacturers and retailers. The reality, a high contrast ratio display with deep blacks will be perceived as sharper than comparable size 1080p display with a lower contrast ratio (see below for more on contrast ratio). Screen size is another factor.

1080p HDTVs, with screens less than 45” have little inherent advantage over 720p displays. The smaller the display the harder it is to see a detail improvement when compared to a 1080p display. Why? The 720p and 768p screens under 45” already pack the pixels very tightly together.

A similar effect can be observed with 7″ and under standard definition TVs (480 lines of resolution). Theses tiny TVs appear very sharp because the lines of resolution are very close to each other.

Another consideration what will be your viewing distance? The further back you sit from the optimum viewing distance for 1080p (see chart) the harder it is to see the difference between 720p and 1080p. When you sit back beyond the maximum 720p viewing distance, you simply can’t justify the added cost of 1080p display.

What to do about it?

For screens below 45” consider a 720p display with high contrast and deep blacks over a 1080p display with lower contrast ratio. With the picture controls properly adjusted, you will be seen a wonderful sharp detailed high definition image that looks better that the 1080p model and costs less.

Copyright 2006 HD Guru (sm) All rights reserved.

Video game info!

Xbox 360

The Xbox 360 supports HDTV gaming using the component cables included with the Xbox 360 Premium. The Xbox 360 can also output HD signals to computer monitors using the available VGA cable.

Supported resolutions: SDTV, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p lots of weird computer resolutions.

Playstation 3

The PS3 will support HDTV gaming using component cables, or HDMI.

Supported resolutions: SDTV, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p


Wii

The Wii will support 16:9 480p widescreen.

Chemmy fucked around with this message at Mar 22, 2007 around 21:05

King Hotpants
Apr 11, 2005

Clint.
Fucking.
Eastwood.


Stickied.

caiman
Aug 19, 2003




I'm considering purchasing a large (50") 1080p set, mostly to "future proof" myself. I'm looking at flat panels. Now, right now there don't seem to be many large sets that have a native resolution of 1080p, and the ones out there are way too expensive.

Do you guys think that say, in a year from now, 1080p will be priced more reasonably, and the selection will be much greater? I'd like a new tv now, but if waiting a year means a better price on a TV that will give me some peace of mind, I'll wait.

Or should I ditch the whole future proofing notion and just get a 720p set?

pastis
Jul 31, 2004

Ouzo is for louzos

There will always be something better on the horizon. Welcome to Buyers Remorse land. Seriously, if you have the funds to do it now, why not enjoy 1080p today rather than tomorrow? However before you answer that question, let me ask you another-- what 1080p sources do you have now and what 1080p sources will you buy before next year?

caiman
Aug 19, 2003




pastis posted:

There will always be something better on the horizon. Welcome to Buyers Remorse land. Seriously, if you have the funds to do it now, why not enjoy 1080p today rather than tomorrow? However before you answer that question, let me ask you another-- what 1080p sources do you have now and what 1080p sources will you buy before next year?

Right now I have nothing, but as soon as I get the new TV, I will be getting an upconverting/region free player ( probably this one ). And I'll probably get an HD player as well. I'm hoping if I wait a while there might be a decent priced double format player, since I don't want to risk buying a $600 paperweight.

THAGMARRRRRRRR
Mar 22, 2005

by Fistgrrl


I'm looking for a high definition TV or monitor I can hook up my DVD player and game systems to, cheap as possible, about 20 inches. I'm not even really that concerned about being able to watch TV on it, although that would be nice, and so far the monitors I've found with component inputs seem to cost the same as comparable sized LCD HDTVs, but maybe I just don't know where to look.

The closest thing I've found is some off-brand, Astar, offering a 19 inch widescreen HD LCD TV/Monitor which seems like a real bargain at 200 bucks, but it's got a really bizarre resolution; 1440 x 900. What the gently caress?

So, two questions:
Is there anywhere I can get a monitor with component inputs but cheap compared to an actual HDTV?
Is that 1440 x 900 resolution something I want to avoid like the plague, or is it worth it for the bargain?

Chemmy
Feb 4, 2001



Have you looked at Dell? A lot of people like their monitors with component inputs.

fudsak
Feb 4, 2004


What kind of wall mount would I need to get for my TV? It's a Samsung 40" LN-S4095D. Ideally I'd like the cheapest one I could get.

pastis
Jul 31, 2004

Ouzo is for louzos

caiman posted:

Right now I have nothing, but as soon as I get the new TV, I will be getting an upconverting/region free player ( probably this one ). And I'll probably get an HD player as well. I'm hoping if I wait a while there might be a decent priced double format player, since I don't want to risk buying a $600 paperweight.

Ah, I thought I recognized your username. I posted in that thread, too, for what it's worth. Anyway, I think you will probably find a *reasonably* priced universal player in the next 6 months, but don't take that as gospel. I'm just guessing here.

What 1080p tv models are you considering?

caiman
Aug 19, 2003




pastis posted:

What 1080p tv models are you considering?

The Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50" plasma is looking real nice. It's just way out of my price range at this point. It needs to drop about 2 grand before I'd be able to consider it. That's why I'm considering waiting it out for about a year. I'm a patient person.

.Nathan.
Jun 29, 2004

by Fistgrrl


caiman posted:

The Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50" plasma is looking real nice. It's just way out of my price range at this point. It needs to drop about 2 grand before I'd be able to consider it. That's why I'm considering waiting it out for about a year. I'm a patient person.


Great TV, however the blacks are really not great - far more LCD-like than what one would expect from a high-end plasma. The good news is that Pioneer has stunning technology coming out with 80% darker blacks and 1080p. These sets should easily come out within the next year, offer better quality than anything out, and be relatively affordable.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/753/753836p1.html

quote:

IGN Gear attended a demonstration of Pioneer's upcoming Plasma displays and walked away as impressed as we get. Pioneer won't provide contrast-ratio figures on its next-gen Plasma technology, citing the figure as un-measurable. We'll assume that means more than 100,000:1, but we'll have to wait for specifics when they are eventually made available by third-party testing. Regardless, we left the Pioneer demonstration just as excited as when we walked out of Toshiba's SED demonstration exactly one year ago.

Edit: Panasonic also supposedly has similar technology that they are working on and will hopefully bring to market eventually. Doubtful that it will be within the next year, though. There's a decent thread on AVSF about the Pioneers, but like most AVS threads it is 5% content and 95% stupid faggots arguing.

.Nathan. fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2007 around 01:45

Er1c
Nov 18, 2004

ENEMY GROUND SPOTTED

I'm in the market for a bedroom HDTV, nothing huge - probably not more than 37" at the very maximum. From what I read in this thread, 1080p is going to be overkill at the distances I'm viewing at (do they even make 1080p TVs that small?). What I need is a suggestion on a TV that A) has at least one DVI input or multiple HDMI inputs, B) decent sound quality C) and I would prefer native 1080i (is that even possible?). Also, when is the best time of year to buy a new TV? I wouldn't have the money for one until June at the earliest, but would prefer to have a HDTV before August. I guess I would prefer LCD or as light as possible, but weight isn't really a huge issue. Thanks for any help

Donkey Kunt
Mar 18, 2006

I'm a cat.


Er1c posted:

I'm in the market for a bedroom HDTV, nothing huge - probably not more than 37" at the very maximum. From what I read in this thread, 1080p is going to be overkill at the distances I'm viewing at (do they even make 1080p TVs that small?). What I need is a suggestion on a TV that A) has at least one DVI input or multiple HDMI inputs, B) decent sound quality C) and I would prefer native 1080i (is that even possible?). Also, when is the best time of year to buy a new TV? I wouldn't have the money for one until June at the earliest, but would prefer to have a HDTV before August. I guess I would prefer LCD or as light as possible, but weight isn't really a huge issue. Thanks for any help

A) I would suggest the Toshiba Regza at that size as it has a range of options. I would also suggest a Samsung LCD. The newer models should have higher contrast ratio and more HDMI ports.

Regza 2007:
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-REGZA...74446087&sr=8-1

B) As much as I love my Samsung LN-S LCD, it just doesn't seem to have good sound quality. Sony's are overpriced LCDs, but I thought they were fine. Haven't heard enough from the Regza to say.

C) 1080i is an analog source. It's not possible on an LCD.

Quidnose
Dec 17, 2003

~*~summertime~*~

So, now that I've got my fabulous 720p Samsung LCD, what's the best way to go about configuring it to get the most out of it? Is there anything I should be doing beyond loving with color levels or whatever? The picture looks amazing as is at the moment, but I want to make it as amazing as possible, obviously.

Donkey Kunt
Mar 18, 2006

I'm a cat.


Quidnose posted:

So, now that I've got my fabulous 720p Samsung LCD, what's the best way to go about configuring it to get the most out of it? Is there anything I should be doing beyond loving with color levels or whatever? The picture looks amazing as is at the moment, but I want to make it as amazing as possible, obviously.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...8&highlight=LNS

I don't know what size you have, but they're all basically the same thing if you have the LNS. I guess through there and find the latest and greatest agreed on picture settings.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


I asked this right at the end of the last thread. I just bought a Samsung DLP projection TV, and I think I have the video game lag issue.

Does anyone have any links with info or discussion on this so I can get a grip on whats going on with it?

Donkey Kunt
Mar 18, 2006

I'm a cat.


Phat_Albert posted:

I asked this right at the end of the last thread. I just bought a Samsung DLP projection TV, and I think I have the video game lag issue.

Does anyone have any links with info or discussion on this so I can get a grip on whats going on with it?

What system are you playing and can you link to the exact DLP you have?

Quidnose
Dec 17, 2003

~*~summertime~*~

Moo Moo Bells posted:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...8&highlight=LNS

I don't know what size you have, but they're all basically the same thing if you have the LNS. I guess through there and find the latest and greatest agreed on picture settings.

Thanks for this, I found the LNS4051D thread, which unfortunately isn't as well laid out as that particular one you linked. Guess I get to slog through this weekend.

Loving the TV, though. HD-DVD, Xbox 360. Even SDVDs! All of it looks wonderful

Louisgod
Sep 25, 2003

Always Watching


I was able to snag a 32" Widescreen Samsung HD with 1080i support for $250. Anyway, I just picked up some component cables for my Wii, but the TV's cutting off about an inch or so from each side of the TV. Panorama picture size would fix the problem, but I'm getting a "Not Available" message when I try to choose it in the menu. It doesn't let me select the option while the Wii is in 480p mode, only 480i, which is really annoying. The picture fits perfectly when in 480i Widescreen, but, y'know, it's cut off in 480p. I have the components hooked into the second input if that makes any difference.

It's really annoying because Wii Sports looks like "Vii Sports" when it's on the title menu. <> Any suggestions?

Big K of Justice
Nov 27, 2005

Anyone seen my ball joints?


A continuation from my last post on the old megathread in games [thanks for the A/V forum].

I got my cables from monoprice.com, and while I can only get 720p from the vga port using my powerbook on my Sony SXRD KDS60A2000, I can get full 1920x1080 on an HDMI slot.

I got the DVI-D -> HDMI cable and used the DVI-D [digital not analog] out from my powerbook, and it auto synced to 1920x1080 . Awesome. Can't wait to move into my new apartment so I can wire up everything correctly.

Zero Jesus
Oct 26, 2004

Same thing we always do, fight 'em until we can't

caiman posted:

The Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50" plasma is looking real nice. It's just way out of my price range at this point. It needs to drop about 2 grand before I'd be able to consider it. That's why I'm considering waiting it out for about a year. I'm a patient person.

FYI Pioneer has a deal running now that if you buy that one you get a free 50 inch 720p Pioneer plasma.

ail
Jul 8, 2003

by The Finn


Zero Jesus posted:

FYI Pioneer has a deal running now that if you buy that one you get a free 50 inch 720p Pioneer plasma.

Um...what? This doesn't make any sense.

CORN NOG
Sep 25, 2003

eh, better than wadded beef i guess?


ail posted:

Um...what? This doesn't make any sense.

Here.

quote:

Consumer Plasma Panel Promotion

This is a limited time promotion starting January 8, 2007 until supplies last
or March 31, 2007, whichever occurs first.

Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc., in conjunction with Participating Authorized Elite Dealers, is pleased to announce a unique Consumer Plasma Panel Promotion.

For a limited time only, purchase a Pioneer® Elite® Model PRO-FHD1 from a participating authorized Elite Dealer in the 50 United States and receive a 50” High Definition Plasma from that same dealer, model Pioneer PDP-5016HD, for FREE. This is for consumer purchases only.

Both models must be delivered to Consumer by Dealer from Dealer’s inventory.

Not all Pioneer authorized Elite Dealers may be participating in this promotion. Pioneer will not be fulfilling any free PDP-5016HD units directly to the Consumer.

Pioneer Elite Dealer’s are NOT authorized to sell Elite products via Internet.

Shrimpy
May 18, 2004

Sir, I'm going to need to see your ticket.


Zero Jesus posted:

FYI Pioneer has a deal running now that if you buy that one you get a free 50 inch 720p Pioneer plasma.

Anyone happen to know any stores that are currently honoring this? I might be able to kill two birds with one stone and avoid an SXRD purchase.

Little Tortilla Boy
Dec 10, 2006
Arnold Schwarzenegger is...

I will be looking into buying a cheaply priced HDTV at the end of the summer. Most likely right now I will be working at Best Buy, so I will have my employee discount, so let's say that I will be spending in the $600-$800 range (realistically that will be more like the $500-$600 after discount).

I remember last summer all the guys at my store (I worked at a very competent store, not like the ones you always hear about) raving about the 30" LG Slimfit, especially over the Samsung Slimfit which they said they had the most returns in best buy history.

Is the LG Slimfit still the way to go? I figure CRT in that price range is still my best bet, because I'd rather get a better quality CRT than a super cheap LCD.

EDIT: I guess I should point out what I actually do with my TV. It's mostly for regular TV show viewing (24, American Idol, and lots of sports), A good amount of DVD viewing, and minor video game playing - and when I do play video games they're sports games through an S-Video connection, so I'm not crazy about the gaming quality.

Little Tortilla Boy fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2007 around 15:48

McFunkerson
Mar 8, 2003
*shrug*

How come these HDTV megathreads never cover SED TVs? Being a total snob when it comes to this kind of stuff I've stuck w/ CRT and will do so until I can get an SED TV.

from wikipedia:

"A surface-conduction electron-emitter display (SED) is a flat panel display technology that uses surface conduction electron emitters for every individual display pixel.The surface conduction emitter emits electrons that excite a phosphor coating on the display panel, the same basic concept found in traditional cathode ray tube (CRT) televisions. This means that SEDs use small cathode ray tubes behind every single pixel (instead of one tube for the whole display) and can combine the slim form factor of LCDs and plasma displays with the superior viewing angles, contrast, black levels, color definition and pixel response time of CRTs. Canon also claims that SEDs consume less power than LCD displays."

.Nathan.
Jun 29, 2004

by Fistgrrl


FUCT posted:

How come these HDTV megathreads never cover SED TVs? Being a total snob when it comes to this kind of stuff I've stuck w/ CRT and will do so until I can get an SED TV.


Because they're never going to happen? That's like asking why Automotive Insanity doesn't have information on flying hypersonic space cars. Do some reading on the new Pioneer plasmas coming out. Everyone who has seen both the Pioneers and SEDs in person seems to think the Pioneers are equal. Not to mention they're actually going to be made in mass quantities and not cost as much as a house. Also OLED is coming along nicely and Sony has been showing off some decent-sized prototypes. I think OLED has a better chance than SED because of its large backing and the fact that it's already used in numerous small-scale applications.

Shrimpy posted:

Anyone happen to know any stores that are currently honoring this? I might be able to kill two birds with one stone and avoid an SXRD purchase.

I'm pretty sure i've read the 5016 is a Fry's only model. Not only would you have to find a store with a 5016, but they'd also have to that an FHD1. Not many stores carry either, let alone both.

Donkey Kunt
Mar 18, 2006

I'm a cat.


Louisgod posted:

I was able to snag a 32" Widescreen Samsung HD with 1080i support for $250. Anyway, I just picked up some component cables for my Wii, but the TV's cutting off about an inch or so from each side of the TV. Panorama picture size would fix the problem, but I'm getting a "Not Available" message when I try to choose it in the menu. It doesn't let me select the option while the Wii is in 480p mode, only 480i, which is really annoying. The picture fits perfectly when in 480i Widescreen, but, y'know, it's cut off in 480p. I have the components hooked into the second input if that makes any difference.

It's really annoying because Wii Sports looks like "Vii Sports" when it's on the title menu. <> Any suggestions?

I'm guessing it's the Slimfit CRT? As you said 1080i, I assume you mean that. Linking to the model would be helpful. However, as was covered in the last thread, those slimfit things are poo poo and have issues like that.

Little Tortilla Boy posted:

EDIT: I guess I should point out what I actually do with my TV. It's mostly for regular TV show viewing (24, American Idol, and lots of sports), A good amount of DVD viewing, and minor video game playing - and when I do play video games they're sports games through an S-Video connection, so I'm not crazy about the gaming quality.

I would really suggest switching over to component when using a CRT. monoprice.com has some cheap components for channel boxes and DVD players, however for the games you'd have to buy them elsewhere. It's not that expensive off of monoprice, so I would suggest you move up with those as well. If you're buying a new HDTV, you might as well have the things that will allow it to work like an HDTV, right? Otherwise you might as well buy a standard definition television as that is all s-video is able to do.

.Nathan. posted:

Because they're never going to happen? That's like asking why Automotive Insanity doesn't have information on flying hypersonic space cars. Do some reading on the new Pioneer plasmas coming out. Everyone who has seen both the Pioneers and SEDs in person seems to think the Pioneers are equal. Not to mention they're actually going to be made in mass quantities and not cost as much as a house. Also OLED is coming along nicely and Sony has been showing off some decent-sized prototypes. I think OLED has a better chance than SED because of its large backing and the fact that it's already used in numerous small-scale applications.

What do you consider as decent size prototypes? How small/large are they supposed to be?

CORN NOG
Sep 25, 2003

eh, better than wadded beef i guess?


Moo Moo Bells posted:

What do you consider as decent size prototypes? How small/large are they supposed to be?

Sony just showed off a 27-inch panel at CES. Not terribly big, but look at how fast LCDs jumped up in size. I remember just a year or two ago, it was hard to find one bigger than 37 inches.

Here are a couple of pictures of those OLEDs. Hot drat those things are thin

Louisgod posted:

It's really annoying because Wii Sports looks like "Vii Sports" when it's on the title menu. <> Any suggestions?

Is it a slimfit CRT? You could try adjusting the overscan settings, if you're up for messing around in the service menu.

CORN NOG fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2007 around 17:33

Modulus
Dec 4, 2006


The guy I'm living with starting this summer is planning to buy a Sony 46" LCD HDTV that does 720p.

A few questions that I didn't see mentioned much in the sweet FAQ...

1) How extensive are HD channel offerings right now? I know the number of channels changes with different providers and so on, but I regularly watch a wide gamut of channels including the "basics" (NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS) as well as others like ESPN, Sci-Fi, Discovery. Are these networks migrating to offer HD in the future? I guess I don't want to pay up just to get 3 channels.

2) With the TV, is there extensive risk of lag with the Wii (or PS2, Gamecube) that he should consider a different TV?

3) Due to the large number of components we'll be hooking up, is there a specific switch that you would recommend? I've read in some places that sometimes these switches degrade image quality, but is this actually the case, or is this coming from pixel peepers? Obviously, I'd like to not ruin the inputs on the TV from plugging/unplugging everything, but I can't seem to find any switches that seem to fit the bill, so any suggestions would be awesome.

4) We're not going HD-DVD/Blu-Ray right now, but I'm somewhat intimidated by the selection of DVD players. Would something like this Samsung DVD-HD755 fit the bill since it has the HDMI output and upconvert to 720p?

ail
Jul 8, 2003

by The Finn


oops nm

CORN NOG
Sep 25, 2003

eh, better than wadded beef i guess?


Modulus posted:

A few questions that I didn't see mentioned much in the sweet FAQ...

1) How extensive are HD channel offerings right now? I know the number of channels changes with different providers and so on, but I regularly watch a wide gamut of channels including the "basics" (NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS) as well as others like ESPN, Sci-Fi, Discovery. Are these networks migrating to offer HD in the future? I guess I don't want to pay up just to get 3 channels.

2) With the TV, is there extensive risk of lag with the Wii (or PS2, Gamecube) that he should consider a different TV?

3) Due to the large number of components we'll be hooking up, is there a specific switch that you would recommend? I've read in some places that sometimes these switches degrade image quality, but is this actually the case, or is this coming from pixel peepers? Obviously, I'd like to not ruin the inputs on the TV from plugging/unplugging everything, but I can't seem to find any switches that seem to fit the bill, so any suggestions would be awesome.

4) We're not going HD-DVD/Blu-Ray right now, but I'm somewhat intimidated by the selection of DVD players. Would something like this Samsung DVD-HD755 fit the bill since it has the HDMI output and upconvert to 720p?

1) All of those except for Scifi are in HD right now (and Discovery HD is hands down my favorite HD channel), and I believe Scifi HD is coming next year. Depending on your provider, you can usually expect around 10-15 channels.

2) You'll get some lag on just about any HD set with any 480i/p games. That said, in my experience Sony's TVs usually aren't too bad about it, and it'll be barely noticable on anything other than rhythm/music or fighting games, and even then it won't be unplayable.

3) The Impact Acoustics 3-play is a good quality component/optical/rca remote controlled switcher and is only fifty bucks.

4) I can't speak for that particular model, but I've had good experiences with Samsung DVD players in the past. Personally, I'm using a modded Xbox in my basement, and a Philips DVP5960 in my living room. The Xbox is great for its versatility (XBMC is a godsend), and while the remote control and interface on the Philips leave a little (okay, a lot) to be desired, DIVX support is great and the picture quality is excellent over HDMI (granted, that is on a 32-inch HD CRT, I haven't tried it out on the larger TV yet)

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


Moo Moo Bells posted:

What system are you playing and can you link to the exact DLP you have?

I have noticed it on my XBOX, it is on a Samsung HL-S5086W 50" DLP HDTV

Playing is laggy, not so much that you could easily measure the lag, but enough that you notice it and it fucks you up while playing.

furushotakeru
Jul 20, 2004

Your Honor, why am I pink?!

I read in the OP that 1080p is considered overkill for a 37" screen, but I am curious what the consensus is on this 37" Aquos. For $1300 it seems like a great deal, even if 1080p is unnecessary on a screen of that size. I will want to play video games on this, anyone know if the Aquos line has any known issues with lag?

Louisgod
Sep 25, 2003

Always Watching


ilikegrapejuice posted:

Is it a slimfit CRT? You could try adjusting the overscan settings, if you're up for messing around in the service menu.

Yep, this is exactly what I must do. Fellow goon stoko went with me to pick the TV up (he has the same TV but in 30") and, apparently, had the same exact issue with his Wii when he hooked up his component cables and had to gently caress around in the service menu to get it to fit.

The model number is TXM3096XHE and type number HR32M9 (32" Samsung Widescreen 1080i). I'm posting them so I can easily come back to them here. Thanks for the help guys.

Donkey Kunt
Mar 18, 2006

I'm a cat.


Phat_Albert posted:

I have noticed it on my XBOX, it is on a Samsung HL-S5086W 50" DLP HDTV

Playing is laggy, not so much that you could easily measure the lag, but enough that you notice it and it fucks you up while playing.

I should have also asked you what cables you are using. Are you using component cables to get 480p (the red, green, blue cables)? Or are you using the composite cable (yellow cable)? The yellow cable is only able to do 480i, a standard definition picture. The television has to do a lot of processing to deinterlace the image and then bringing it up to its native 720p.

Though I have never used anything on it that was standard definition, I have heard it does have issues upscaling the image to 720p. If you get component cables for the XBox, it should display the image into 480p (a progressive image). It should be easier for the television to just scale the image to 720p.

Madcatz component:
http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=801798

That should hopefully fix the issue. I have never used that television for anything at standard definition, so I can't say for sure.

If you need the optical audio output, you'll need to buy the official component switch from Microsoft.

Final note: If you do have component all set up, make sure you have the video settings in the menu at 720p and widescreen.

Edit: Reading that Amazon list, it says it is an "Aspect Ratio: 4:3". Is your TV widescreen? Otherwise, I haven't used that TV at all. If it's an HD television and not widescreen, it's probably a cheapo economy line of television where parts such as processing is m'eh at best.

If it is 16:9 widescreen, Amazon becomes stupid for their listing.

Donkey Kunt fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2007 around 20:17

LordOfThePants
Sep 25, 2002


ilikegrapejuice posted:

1) All of those except for Scifi are in HD right now (and Discovery HD is hands down my favorite HD channel), and I believe Scifi HD is coming next year. Depending on your provider, you can usually expect around 10-15 channels.
Isn't Discovery HD different than the Discovery Channel? I thought Discovery HD showed things like "Sunrise Earth" and other nature programming, shows like Mythbusters, Dirty Jobs, etc don't air on Disocvery HD?

Anyway, if you visit AVSForum, they have subforums for local providers and you can get an idea as to what is offered in your area and by whom.

CORN NOG
Sep 25, 2003

eh, better than wadded beef i guess?


Phat_Albert posted:

I have noticed it on my XBOX, it is on a Samsung HL-S5086W 50" DLP HDTV

Playing is laggy, not so much that you could easily measure the lag, but enough that you notice it and it fucks you up while playing.

Samsung's DLPs are pretty notorious about upscale lag. There is a Game Mode that should reduce the effects (I believe it's under the "Setup" option in the menu, rather than the usual video settings)

LordOfThePants posted:

Isn't Discovery HD different than the Discovery Channel? I thought Discovery HD showed things like "Sunrise Earth" and other nature programming, shows like Mythbusters, Dirty Jobs, etc don't air on Disocvery HD?

Yeah, you're right. It's not just an HD version of the regular Discovery Channel, but I definitely prefer that to how National Geographic HD does things. I like how Discovery HD plays HD content some 99% of the time, whereas NGHD seems to just be the regular NG station but with a couple of shows a day in HD.

Besides, I'm sure Mythbusters, Dirty Jobs, and all the other good Discovery shows will make their way to the HD station eventually. Until then, I'll be perfectly fine with watching sharks and lions tearing other animals to pieces

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Lt. Jebus
Sep 9, 2001

You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought...

Moo Moo Bells posted:

I should have also asked you what cables you are using. Are you using component cables to get 480p (the red, green, blue cables)? Or are you using the composite cable (yellow cable)? The yellow cable is only able to do 480i, a standard definition picture. The television has to do a lot of processing to deinterlace the image and then bringing it up to its native 720p.

Though I have never used anything on it that was standard definition, I have heard it does have issues upscaling the image to 720p. If you get component cables for the XBox, it should display the image into 480p (a progressive image). It should be easier for the television to just scale the image to 720p.

Madcatz component:
http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=801798

That should hopefully fix the issue. I have never used that television for anything at standard definition, so I can't say for sure.

If you need the optical audio output, you'll need to buy the official component switch from Microsoft.

Final note: If you do have component all set up, make sure you have the video settings in the menu at 720p and widescreen.

Edit: Reading that Amazon list, it says it is an "Aspect Ratio: 4:3". Is your TV widescreen? Otherwise, I haven't used that TV at all. If it's an HD television and not widescreen, it's probably a cheapo economy line of television where parts such as processing is m'eh at best.

If it is 16:9 widescreen, Amazon becomes stupid for their listing.

To build on upon this there are really 2 options available, and they are not mutually exclusive (IE you can do them both if you want)

1) Most new TV's have a "Game" AV mode which speeds up the internal de-interlacing (the culprit for the lag) at a slight cost in visual quality. I'm not sure if the HL-S models have them, but I'm pretty sure the HL-R models did so I can't imagine why they wouldn't. In any case, if you've got it turn it on and give it a shot. Its the cheapest option.

2) As Moo Moo Bells mentioned, switch to Component cables. Since all XB games at least support progressive scan (something that isn't true with the PS2) that should eliminate the need to de-interlace and thus your problem. My old HL-P had TERRIBLE input lag (and no game mode) and this fixed the issue. Most PS2 games were still unplayable.

There is a third comedy option that involves you buying an external scaler or receiver and running the XB through that, but its money you don't need to spend because your problem will be most likely solved by one of the two above options.

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