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Zorak posted:
In the back of my mind during every space battle scene was the idea, "this would be an awesome videogame." Lo and behold, it appears to now be made into an awesome videogame. Hopefully the interface will be intuitive enough that it won't take too long to figure out, as you know this'll never be translated into English. Loved the, "Ginga no rekeshi ga, mata ichi pegi" bit at the end.
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Aug 6, 2008 03:09
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While this topic has everyone's attention, does anyone happen to remember what episode was it where they had a battle set to the entirety of Boléro? I think it was some action around Iserlohn. That was absolutely beautiful, but I don't even have LOGH on my hard drive anymore, and I don't want to download a hundred episodes again just to look for it.
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Sep 4, 2008 01:01
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I had fun with the demo, 7-12 frames per second worth of fun! Missile artillery is pretty useful- the first clash I had with the enemy ended with them quickly trying to run away, so I shot my missiles behind them to act as an anvil to my fleet's hammer. Unfortunately the enemy managed to escape laterally while I bumbled around trying to change my fleet's orientation. Rather than peruse, I hid behind a nebula and once they showed up again with reinforcements I positioned my fleet so that they had to go through the nebula and my barrage of missiles at the same time. So yeah, simple demo (playing with missiles was basically the only interesting thing I found to do- I really wish the option to split your fleet wasn't grayed out, even if I probobly would have shot myself in the foot with it) but still pretty fun. The absolute best thing, however, was the music. Without the music it would be a slide show of an average space fleet game, with the music I was playing Legend of Galactic Heroes! Heck yeah!
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Sep 28, 2008 07:36
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Dire Penguin posted:Anyone figured out how to not die when the two fleets show up at once? And wait for time to run out. If you confront them one fleet will try to distract you as the other flanks you. Strike while they're together (if you want to keep up the appearance of a battle), flee when they spread out. Use bunched up formations. Hope individual ships get lost (literally) in the chaos and distract the enemy fleet (could I spit my fleet, I'd be throwing a sacrifice squad of damaged ships at them each time I turned to flee). Using the cheap method of not finishing off the first fleet, I managed to finish with nearly my whole armada intact. When I killed the first guys as fast as possible this strategy left me with about 15 ships in 3 squads by the time 15 minutes was up. On the bright side I'd whittled one of the enemy fleets down to a similar size... though the other was practically untouched. One neat little detail I noticed as I ran around the map is icons appearing over each group of ships with different colored arrows pointing different directions. After watching them change as I flew through a nebula I realized that they indicate how their velocity compares to the average of the fleet's and how far out of formation they are. I don't know how that information is especially useful, but I though it was cool. Hovering over them gives a lot of arrows, but the text is unintelligible. Also, under "Opushen" (above web) I unchecked the check-box that said "buruumu," as well as changing the state of "efekuto" (second from the top on the right) and my FPS went from 7-12 to a constant 30 even during the heaviest fighting. Does anyone know how to make the text display properly? I could have sworn I already installed some sort of east-asian language pack, but I can't be sure. I don't know any Japanese, but it'd be easier to decipher consistent runes than random garble. (I've spent way too much time with this demo. Definitely going to try to buy the game, language barrier be damned.) Edit: Got up the courage to click "web" in the menu- it was just the website, but the background music was Bolero. 
Eiba fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Sep 28, 2008 |
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Sep 28, 2008 09:34
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Nate RFB posted:There are still a lot of compelling stories after that, don't worry. Certainly I wouldn't advise stopping, if only to see how the galaxy ends up, but if I had any complaint about this awesome, awesome show it was how it never regained what it lost there. I'm not complaining that Yang died, as such an ignoble, almost random end to such a great man somehow drives home one of the themes here. I just think once it was done they had no real way to keep going at the same scale. On the theme of random deaths, that reminds me that one of the side stories I really liked was Popplan's and Konev's friendly banter after missions. Kind of cliche, but usually pretty witty and funny. And then after one random, insignificant confrontation, Konev never came back. I recall them cutting to Popplan returning in a latter battle, and he just looked around and walked away without saying anything. I think it was done pretty well.
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Oct 11, 2008 22:02
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Tir McDohl posted:Wellllll, the manga of the novels was very shoujo, so I think the gayness was intentional, at least for that version of the story. I enjoy joking about it as much as the next person, as it's rarely depicted in fiction nowadays, but it is kind of bothersome when someone honestly doesn't understand this intense kind of friendship.
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Jan 4, 2009 13:48
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Well, it wasn't all that inevitable- if Yang had just a bit less moral fiber... he could have taken Reinhard out after he got the surrender order that one time- or heck, more generally he could have taken over as dictator at any number of points and set the Alliance on the right path, militarily at least. I'm sure he had the popular support. Of course, if he had just a bit less moral fiber he wouldn't really be Yang at all.
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Jun 3, 2009 07:41
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Doctor Alien posted:I just felt bad for the Free Planet Alliance, though. One thing that always got me about the show was how deeply ironic it was. The republican democracy was the corrupt form of government, whereas the dictatorship was shown as just. By having a halfway decent system the Free Planet Alliance prevented an idealistic prodigy from taking over and fixing things.
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Dec 9, 2009 06:50
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Swilo posted:What is wrong with the world that this isn't more popular? What is wrong with Japan that so few things seem to approach a 20 year old series in overall quality? Perhaps that helps answer your question.
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Feb 16, 2010 00:57
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Hmm. I never looked at it that way. From now on I'll be sure to make everyone I might consider being friends with watch LoGH, and I shall summarily shun them if they have anything but a euphoric reaction. After all, an individual has no possible merit if they don't see the genius of my favorite cartoon. (I actually met the biggest LoGH/Gundam/Mecha fan I know in real life at that club... in fact the only LoGH fan I know in real life... making that club a very good place to meet people who liked LoGH, relatively speaking!)
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Feb 16, 2010 03:14
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This is a really trivial and silly question for such a good show but it's proven a contentious point of debate with my friend: Are the Free Planets Alliance uniforms ever straight black? I always thought they were a really dark green, but he's showed me a bunch of pictures from the show where they seem to be pretty unambiguously black, that my brain just never processed as black before. Do they change at some point, or is it just poor contrast? (I'd feel worse about bumping this thread for this question, but it really deserves all the attention it can get, for whatever reason.)
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Mar 29, 2011 03:13
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Well that's definitely true for the black Imperial uniforms, but the FPA are green if they're any color. Some context, I've always felt they're this dark green color:  My friend sees them as black, like in this fan art:  And here are a couple cells from the anime that don't clear things up:   So is this supposed to be dark green or black? For context, my friend is going to an anime con in an Imperial uniform, and he wants me to dress up in an FPA uniform. I am resisting on the grounds that his jacket he wants me to use is black, not green... but the more I look at pictures from the anime, the more it looks like they could basically be black.
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Mar 29, 2011 04:14
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Yeah, a basic FPA Star Fleet uniform would be pretty easy once you had the jacket. I always figured you'd have to hire someone to make the jacket, but I don't know where one would go for that. It's not the right color, but I... I think I'm going to end up doing FPA cosplay anyway. Well, I wasn't doing anything with my dignity anyway.
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Apr 6, 2011 06:57
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Doc Hawkins posted:It's hard to transition out of a hereditary dictatorship when the guy you have right now seems like such a better ruler than a bunch of squabbling merchants and politicians would be.  Long, aimless rant on democracy incoming! I was a pretty die hard supporter of democracy the whole show. To me, popular government is as important as any other right for the exact same reasons. Free speech and press and movement and things like that aren't good because they lead to certain ends. The purpose of legal liberty isn't to allow anything in particular, it's to prevent people from being abused. Likewise the purpose of popular government is to hold leaders accountable and prevent them from abusing their power and harming the people as a whole. It's a safeguard, and if Reinhard created a political system without that safeguard, he's doing a lovely job governing, despite what everyone repeatedly states. Let me put it another way, what does Reinhard have to fear from accountability? If he's doing a fantastic job, what would be the harm in putting forth a few popular referendums on what he's doing? Why not create a political system where he needs to run for office? If he's such a wonderful ruler like everyone clearly sees him to be, he'll win easily. It might look a little corrupt, but no more corrupt than installing his wife and then child into power by default. It sounds silly, I know, but the reason it's silly is that Reinhard obviously doesn't believe in legal accountability! Not for himself, and not for his successors. He feels the only form of accountability a ruler needs to face is military. He's bootstrapped himself out of a lovely situation to overthrow an empire, so to him everyone should be expected to do that, or they deserve to live under a corrupt ruler! That's disgustingly cruel! Even if he enacts positive political reforms, this still makes him a really, really lovely ruler. There's a lot of halfhearted defenses of democracy in this show like, "Well, even if he's soooo awesome at ruling, his son might not be," but that's nonsense because he's not awesome at ruling precisely because he's set up a system where his son will take power! This may sound like circularly reasoned democracy fanboy frothing, but it's not. I don't have a romantic view of democracy and freedom. All it is to me is a system of accountability, and indeed it's a system that might require more accountability than is necessary, and is slow and unwieldy at times as a result. But accountability is paramount to good governance. "Good dictators" like Reinhard is said to be don't actually exist. Democracy isn't a panacea, and it's perfectly possible (even likely) that corporate interests and an apathetic or uniformed populace could result in some really lovely governance... but honestly, I'd rather live in a system dominated by special interests and an apathetic population where the government can be held accountable, than in a system dominated by special interests and an uninvolved population where the government is free to do whatever it wants. Even in a corrupt broken democracy, there are laws in place that allow for a revolution without the need for any bloodshed. tl;dr: Democracy is cool and I need to get more sleep. And back to another random thought on LoGH itself, with all this above being how I feel about democracy, I loved that the undeniably "good" guys (in my view) lost. There's something noble and romantic about fighting for what's right, against the odds, and after doing your best coming up short, and failing. It's a really fun, really sad feeling, and is probably my favorite part of LoGH. "The Last Fortress of Republican-Democracy" was an incredibly compelling concept.
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Aug 16, 2011 07:58
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duck monster posted:I gotta say I haven't enjoyed the prequel series half as much as the main series. What the hecks with the detective story arcs? I mean none of its bad, its just not as interesting. I never actually finished the prequel series. I always meant to get around to it, though. It's definitely a more low key affair, but it's still got the characters and the world I dearly love from the main series so... good enough.
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Aug 28, 2011 09:22
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DamnGlitch posted:now think of how jaded you'd be about this if it didn't come out way way WAY before 9/11? It is eerily, disgustingly prescient. And honestly, the depiction of religious extremism is the most stupid and shallow part of LoGH. I mean, you can look at the big picture and see people being unreasonably violent for apparently petty reasons and... yeah, if you squint, that might look the kind of like real religious extremism looks to the nonbeliever. But it just doesn't work that way. The robes and torches, the purely evil masterminds, and the purely mindless followers... The whole thing was a cartoon, which was incredibly jarring and inappropriate in this of all shows. If anyone could make any sense of how they're supposed to be at all believable or interesting, I'd love to hear it, as to me they're the one downright idiotic part of this otherwise perfect show, and it'd be nice if I was just missing something about them.
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Sep 2, 2011 07:47
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thecallahan posted:I watched the first episode a year or two ago and promptly forgot about this series until recently. Thanks to the links in the first post I've watched the first movie and will soon be onto the second than the series proper. The classical music during the main space battle was awesome and fit the scene more than I thought it ever could.
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Oct 19, 2011 12:20
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They actually made a nice little RTS PC game fairly recently. Japanese of course, so I've got no idea how to play it. Had fun fiddling with with the demo ages ago before the game came out. Not impossible to play, at all. Fairly good sized fleet battles too, though in a 2D plane, not 3D like the show.
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Nov 22, 2011 10:08
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Legend of Galactic Heroes is one of the most loving awesome stories I've ever experienced. I can't overstate my love for it. It's really loving lovely when it comes to gender and race. These things can both be true. You don't need to apologize for and sweep away its obvious shortcomings just because you love it. I understand the compulsion to apologize for it all too well, but the FPA is supposed to be a depiction of a liberal egalitarian society, in contrast to the conservative hierarchical Empire... the fact that there are so few women and so many white people is a result of the author's cultural baggage and actively hurts the strength of the setting. You could explain away the race thing in large part by saying the racial diversity is being representative of America, and not humanity, as the FPA is clearly analogous to America just as much as the Empire is analogous to Prussia... This would explain why there are so few Asians, but even then you're really short on Africans and Hispanics. There's really no explaining away the gender thing. That's just unfortunate cultural baggage. Pimpmust posted:I just find it interesting analyzing the writing and trying to spot where the writer's cultural influences creep in (conciously or not). Like, if this was an american story the FPA would most likely be shown in such a bad light even when making the exact same points LoGH is doing (I mean, a democracy AND the rebels? Perhaps one of the most interesting things about LoGH is that, while it's full of morals, it's not afraid to buck convention. In fact it kind of revels in it sometimes (cf. Yang's almost random totally not noble or incredible death). Even if it were from another cultural context that more valued democracy, if it ended with "Rah rah Democracy! Isn't our system great?" it would be fundamentally different from what it is. And I say this as just about the biggest democracy/FPA fan there can be. I guess you could say one of the things about LoGH I love is that it has 'my side' lose, rather than indulgently patting me on the head and telling me everything will ultimately go my way.
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Dec 16, 2011 07:57
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) and the ending would surely be different even if the FPA were shown to be run by the most corrupt fucks to have crawled out of US politics. That's just natural depending on where the writer comes from. How the genders are portrayed and used in the story is no different.
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AzraelNewtype posted:Where did you get the idea that the FPA is supposed to be anything so positive? The strength of Yang's character comes from the fact that the FPA is an oppressive, corrupt shithole, but it's a democratic shithole so he prefers it to even the most benevolent dictatorship on principle. You know, even when government officials are sending goon squads to kill dissenters. That doesn't sound particularly liberal to me. This isn't just a matter of cultural baggage, you're not supposed to look on either side and see an ideal government. They're both flawed, because they're both human. Yang's got a Chinese name. There's all sorts of names from all over the world in positions of power. You really don't think the FPA is supposed to have an unambiguously positive history? The Empire's deal is that Rudolph was a hugely racist genocidal, pretty unambiguously evil dick, and his personal love of historical German culture defines the entire empire for centuries. There's nothing good about that. That's an unambiguously horrible backstory. The FPA's deal is that they thought that was really lovely and left. There's nothing flawed about that. That's really unambiguously good backstory. The FPA's corruption is supposed to be the corruption that a liberal democracy often does succumb to. It's supposed to be the dark side of a good thing. If they were also explicitly racist and sexist, unless that were somehow a product of democracy (which it could be, but clearly isn't in the show), that would undercut that whole theme. Edit: There are... very few Japanese people in LoGH. I'm sure there might be one or two, but I can't actually think of any. So... I doubt the author based the racial demographics of the FPA on Japan, at least.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:25
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AzraelNewtype posted:Did you watch the show? Did you read my post? The FPA is corrupt as hell... but it's history is ideal. It's foundation is pure. That's the whole loving point of the FPA. It's the right system (in Yang's estimation at least- and Yang's never explicitly called out for being wrong), but it's still really lovely because of people.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:38
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Zorak posted:The FPA's background is "good", but it's supposed to be a corrupt, terrible government. The entire male citizenry is drafted into an unsustainable, losing war, while the nepotistic elite coasts by un-invested (George W. Busy Syndrome). Protestors get the bloody KKK sent on them and beat to death with hammers. That's BAD. All that poo poo that's wrong with the FPA? It's poignant because the background is good. If it were founded as a flawed horrible thing- if the blame could be moved off the people who exist today and on to the rotten founders of the nation... it would the same loving thing as the Empire, and the contrast would be meaningless. AzraelNewtype posted:I agree with all of this, but how does this impact your assertion that it is a liberal egalitarian society and therefore should be less of a regressive shithole than it is in practice? Sexism doesn't seem to be something the show thinks about at all, but racism is... and the Empire is explicitly racist, while the FPA is never implied to be. In fact that's an incredibly strong a contrast between them, and I think the FPA is supposed to be a racially egalitarian society. The main character is Chinese. That's a pretty big deal, especially in a Japanese work. If it makes you feel better, I could say that the FPA has a liberal egalitarian veneer, and a rotten heart... but by being so lovely about gender and race the author's cultural biases have smudged that veneer, and undercut the contrast that's supposed to exist between the surface appearance and the true nature of the FPA.
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Dec 16, 2011 08:58
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So, the first chapter of The Heroic Legend of Arslan came out a while ago (and I just learned about it). That's, Fullmetal Alchemist's mangaka (Arakawa Hiromu) adapting another work of Tanaka Yoshiki (you know, author of LoGH), for those who didn't know. Looks from the intro chapter that it'll be somewhat thoughtful about issues and societies like LoGH is, though in a faux-Persian context, rather than space-America vs. space-Prussia. Appropriately, it kind of goes on more about religion and slavery and wealth distribution, than democracy vs. autocracy like LoGH. And it does so in a... well, I wouldn't say it was full of nuance (they were establishing themes pretty heavily in the first chapter), but it's way better than you'd expect from manga usually. Definitely worth a look. (I wish it had a thread... maybe in a few chapters.)
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Jul 13, 2013 04:39
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For Terraism to be interesting, a whole religion would have to be invented with an empathetic mindset. Like the author would have to understand and on some level be able to sympathize with the people who believed this stuff. That is not easy, and definitely not this author's strong suit. He tends to just copy and paste history into new an interesting scenarios. Which is great, but religion can be so utterly impenetrable and bizarre that it's hard to just copy-paste. They tend not to make intuitive sense and the only reason they don't seem utterly bizarre is because we grew up in a world where they exist the way they do. For what it's worth, the basic premise of a reactionary cult worshiping the mother planet was a pretty decent start, all things considered. The author just obviously had no reference point to go from there and fell back on cartoon villains to fill in the gaps. It clearly didn't work.
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Jan 12, 2018 08:16
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That was really nice! Reinhard and Kircheis are anime pretty boys surrounded by gruff old men... as they always have been. It's just crisper and more colorful now. Which is fine. New aesthetic. I can get used to it. Important bits: Fleet battles looked great! CG ships are a huge improvement over the old anime. Music is acceptable! You'll never get better than the classical score of the old anime, but this stuff has a good classical style that definitely supports the action the same grand way the old stuff did.
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Apr 1, 2018 03:19
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Man, regardless of adaptation, I love the difference between the FPA and the Empire. Even though they're basically just past human societies copy-pasted into this future setting, the fact that Yang and Reinhard don't even feel like they're from the same world in their different segments is a pretty fantastic feeling. It's a really great background to the theme of human triumph and folly being universal.
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May 1, 2018 22:18
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I feel you could make the point that a lot of the cynicism about Democracy is rooted in the experience of democracy in Japan. It's just Imperial Japan vs modern Japan with a bunch of flavor.
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Jul 18, 2023 05:35
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