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episode 82+ I feel absolutely gutted about the death of Yang Wen-li... I didn't even think he was my favourite character -- that'd probably be either Reuental or Oberstein, but I could easily imagine the show going on without either of them. Without Yang things feel.. hollow.. the Kaiser has interesting people in his camp, but democracy has to win in the end, and how can that ever happen now?.. I'll keep watching, but I feel unexpectedly miserable. Yang wasn't just the commander, he was the reason they were all fighting. He represented all the good things democracy stands for. And I.. don't know if I can go on living without him...
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Mar 26, 2009 00:51
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Zorak posted:Why exactly is that now? Why does democracy have to win, or why can't it happen now? I'm rooting for democracy in the long run because it's the only just system of human government. I like the Kaiser but autocracy doesn't work. As for why can't it happen anymore, well, I just don't see it as much. Yang's absence leaves a big hole. And he had to be the leader, because nobody else quite has his ideals. I don't know. Their victory would seem hollow without democracys biggest fan to share it with. I know we're supposed to be fighting for the ideology and not for the man, but I'll miss Yang. Feel like we can't win without him. edit- yeah Nobody else had his morals. Yang would never have gone into a rage and slaughtered those soldiers. He wouldn't be capable of that. I'm not saying Julian is despicable for being able to do that, but Yang could never. He's genuinely somewhat of a pacifist. He's just. The right man for the job. sensual benny fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Mar 26, 2009 |
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Mar 26, 2009 01:56
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Nate RFB posted:That's basically the whole point. Yang's absence is so big that all of the characters reach the same conclusion you do, and therein lies much of the drama of the final season. Also keep in mind who the Ending credits have been featuring more and more heavily throughout the series. Oh yeah. I mean I understand all this. I'm just sad about it, because I was hoping for democracy to win.
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Mar 26, 2009 02:03
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I understand all that. I'm not complaining, I'm just lamenting. Mourning, if I may. Don't pretend you don't understand me... You've been there, we share this experience. Having fought hard and loyally under Yang and then he just goes and.. isn't there anymore. I feel low and empty and alone, and you know the pain. That's all I meant.. just wanted to let everyone else bearing this awful scar know that hey, i'm here too. i've been to hell. i know what it's like.
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Mar 26, 2009 02:54
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edit: nevermind. sorry for this post. cheers!
sensual benny fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 29, 2009 |
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Mar 29, 2009 19:02
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So so far there's just 10 episodes of Spiral Labyrinth subbed by CA right? And they haven't done Ouverture to a New War yet. Oh well.. Something to look forward to.
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Apr 5, 2009 00:00
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Episodes 11 and 12 of Spiral Labyrinth now available. 11: http://a.scarywater.net/ca/LOGH%20Gaiden%20Spiral%20Labyrinth%20Ep%2011%20-%20Central%20Anime(f2c50c7b).avi.torrent 12: http://a.scarywater.net/ca/LOGH%20Gaiden%20Spiral%20Labyrinth%20Ep%2012%20-%20Central%20Anime(19e4ad9a).avi.torrent
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Apr 20, 2009 14:24
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It's not that big a deal anyway. Sometimes (probably a lot of the time) the show will put out some awkward German, just like it uses awkward English now and then. In one or two incidents involving Reuntal it uses awkward (practically incomprehensible really) French, interestingly. Is Reuntal a Frenchman? I sure hope so. It's a Japanese show. Trust the subtitles, and don't worry about the European languages. It's cute enough that they tried.
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May 3, 2009 05:16
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Eiba posted:Well, it wasn't all that inevitable- if Yang had just a bit less moral fiber... he could have taken Reinhard out after he got the surrender order that one time- or heck, more generally he could have taken over as dictator at any number of points and set the Alliance on the right path, militarily at least. I'm sure he had the popular support. I wouldn't call it "moral fibre" so much as principles, but yeah. Firing on Reinhard / becoming dictator could be argued as morally right actions, since they would definitely dramatically improve the lives of citizens in the FPA at least - and if Yang leveraged his rule over the FPA into a campaign to unite humanity (ahahah Yang would NEVER do this) he would certainly make a better philosopher-king over all Mankind than Reinhard did (sorry Reinhard! Love you anyway). Yang is rightfully concerned about the precedents this would set though, not to mention the lives it would cost.
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Jun 10, 2009 16:35
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AWESOME! 4 at once? I just started rewatching Spiral Labyrinth too. : )
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Sep 2, 2009 11:05
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Zackarotto posted:I remember spending the majority of 110 episodes trying to decode that text, not ever freezing the frame but just making a two-second attempt during each run through the OPs. ("derdensa... aww, gently caress it, no further than I got the last ten times, I'll try again 22 minutes from now I guess") There are two separate gaidens you know- A Hundred Billion Stars, A Hundred Billion Lights (mostly about Reinhard and Kircheis) and Spiral Labyrinth (mostly about Yang). The first one is totally done, so if you're worried about a long wait there's no reason why you couldn't at least watch that one. And on the topic of star system names, there's definitely one called the Reykjavík system, which was an awesome shoutout for those of us who live here.
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Sep 7, 2009 03:11
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This is a random question but it's been bothering me for a long time, so I'll shoot it out there: in episode 108, after Julian fights his way to Reinhard and makes his proposal, Reinhard says, "This is the second man who's come to me and collapsed, isn't it, Müller." Does anyone know who he's talking about with regard to the first? The only thing I can think of is Yang, who gave him that argument a long time ago and later died, but that would be a pretty questionable translation then. Does anyone happen to have any ideas?
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Sep 30, 2009 21:28
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Nice to see some new discussion in this thread!Honest Ray posted:Wrong guy there. Ruenthal saw he was getting railroaded what with Lang dicking him, and the Earth Cult setting him up to fall with that rebellion, not to mention his own ambition. I don't think he would have turned without the outside impetus but when he saw what was happening he just embraced it because he was a man of ability and ambition. I hope I'm not getting my timeline messed up. I think part of the impetus behind Reunthal's rebellion was because he felt it was what the Kaiser expected from him, and was asking for in his own way by appointing him as Neue Land Governor. The confrontation was kind of inevitable given both men's "war-god" personalities and the vacuum of powerful opponents to test themselves against. This is another issue where Kircheis could have almost certainly smoothed things over and prevented the gaps in communication and expectations between them. I think Reunthal really says it all with his final arguement to Mittermeyer. "Wasn't I born to fight against the Kaiser and feel a sense of fulfillment from it?" The narrator of course doesn't miss the opportunity to remark on the irredeemable nature of tacticians. Reunthal knew from the start that his rebellion was probably doomed. But for him it was really his way of showing his loyalty to the Kaiser.
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Dec 9, 2009 11:13
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And regarding Trunicht... I still really don't quite know what to make of him. He doesn't seem to be a huge believer in democracy, given his powerful secret police force that eliminates political dissent, and his concern above all else with his own well-being over that of his nation (which democratically elected him to serve it). It feels like if he was working to implement constitutional reforms in the Empire (and Julian seems to believe he was, so I'm inclined to take his word for it), he had only his power in mind, certainly scheming to become Prime Minister and hopefully wield ultimate power once the position of Kaiser becomes only a figurehead. He's apparently very charismatic despite being the biggest rear end in a top hat of all time so maybe he could've even succeeded. That would actually be a really hilarious outcome for the series -- both systems that the characters fought so hard to preserve and topple would have survived in the worst possible ways. The Galactic Empire becomes a corrupt constitutional monarchy, with Trunicht at the helm ensuring that the form of democracy is present but none of its freedoms or implications. That's a truly chilling vision, and in retrospect Reunthal's assassination of Trunicht may be a very significant moment in history since it prevented that ghastly path. It's also an open argument to Yang's conviction that assassination (well, ok, terrorism) has never changed history in any constructive way. sensual benny fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Dec 9, 2009 |
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Dec 9, 2009 11:28
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Anonymous-san posted:Oh my God I am so glad this thread still exists. I just marathoned the gently caress out of this show in about two weeks, and I'm having a hard time gathering up the gumption to watch the two movies because I don't want my LoGH experience to end ;____; Don't forget all the Gaiden episodes! They tell some prequel stories about Reinhard's, Kircheis's, and Yang's rise to fame, and altogether it's about 2 more seasons worth of content. They're really good too!
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Dec 12, 2009 09:03
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Its just you.
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Dec 26, 2009 22:49
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DamnGlitch posted:Yeah. Or, worse so, many of the titles, which is why it's good they are revealed at the end, butttt.... I was so pissed when I was away from my computer and went to look for eps on youtube, and they were sorted by NAME and I was on like ep 45 and saw a future episode named "THE DEATH OF REAUENTAL" and I was like "FUCKKKKK" That's not actually the name of the episode though, somebody had just called a clip that on youtube. The actual episodes have much more poetic titles, though they can be equally spoilerific, like (episode 82): The Magician Did Not Return On the topic of Overture to a New War I have nothing but good things to say about it, and I think it makes a strong one-two punch to start the series along with My Conquest.... It does a great job of breaking up the constant battle that had previously started the series (and served as an imperfect introduction, since battle is not the focus of the show) and introduces a lot of important concepts at the same time. The decision to slow down and expand the events in the opening episodes was really smart and now feels like it was necessary. Important characters and concepts that were originally developed later are given better and more organic introductions, like Julian, Annerose and the nature of the relationship between Reinhard and Kircheis. I would definitely recommend starting the series with this, though it does assume knowledge of My Conquest, so there's no reason not to watch that first as a prologue. sensual benny fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 31, 2010 |
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Jan 30, 2010 23:26
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The narrator certainly doesn't fail to remind us how war is hell and tactitians are awful and irredeemable people at what feels like the start and end of every battle. He's right though, and that's why the explicit gore in that one episode didn't feel out of place to me, just really disturbing and made me question whether the battles being fought were really worth this immense human cost. That's why Oberstein is my favourite character, because he's one of the few characters that truly takes this question seriously and actively looks for alternate routes, though his methods may appear ghastly and unthinkable.
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Mar 3, 2010 19:02
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Dire Penguin posted:But Oberstein also causes millions of deaths to achieve his goals, just like Yang and Reinhardt? I'm not saying Oberstein's hands are clean or anything. All I mean is that he acknowledges the horrible waste that battling things out in "good, honourable combat" really causes and how stupid and hypocritical it is. He tries to find ways of winning without fighting, and consequently he's always on the side of plans that have a much lower cost in human life. He's probably the most hated character on the show (by both other characters and by most of the audience), and it's easy to see why, since he's advocated genocide, Yang's assassination (his attempt failed, though it led to Yang being put in a position where Rubinsky's attempt could succeed), slaughter of POWs, and other horrible and dishonourable acts. But his motivation for these plans always comes from a strictly utilitarian perspective of trying to save as many lives as possible, and for that reason I can't help myself from liking him. Reinhard himself says that though he dislikes him personally, "[His] arguments are so right they leave no room for discussion." I think all this makes him at the very least a really interesting character.
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Mar 3, 2010 19:26
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Zorak posted:Reinhard would rather beat armies against each other for long as possible so long as it results in his glorious victory. On repeat viewings Reinhard loses a lot of his glorious lustre in the later seasons with this attitude of his. A scene that sums up his complete lack of respect for the human dignity of his soldiers is the unveiling of his ridiculous plan where he pours wine over a bunch of sheets of paper to demonstrate that throwing wave after wave of men at Yang will eventually result in a still-dry sheet underneath the soaked and ruined ones. I still find Reinhard a sympathetic character and don't at all find it a failing of the show, he's just understandably lost touch with the feelings and passions that inspired him to acheive all he's acheived and arguably become little better than his predecessors, at least in war.
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Mar 3, 2010 19:36
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Zorak posted:You have to keep in mind with Reinhard that different people and cultures have different priorities. Quite a few of Reinhard soldiers are GLAD to sacrifice their lives for him; they see him as some sort of God incarnate. Reinhard risks his own life often in battle, and thus his men respect him since he's as willing and at as much of a risk to die as them.
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Mar 3, 2010 19:47
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Kircheis's importance to Reinhard is explored beautifully in the Gaiden series, I think. There's a great line about how he needs to stay with Reinhard so that there will "always be something between Reinhard and his surroundings". There's no doubt about the fact that Kircheis was absolutely essential to Reinhard. Everything would have happened differently had he survived, and it's almost certain that a lot more people would have lived. It's not just a matter of stress -- without his only friend Reinhard loses himself and begins to forget the reason he started fighting in the first place. Worse still, on his deathbed Kircheis tells Reinhard that he must win the galaxy, and those words become an inescapable chain for him. He must fight on alone until the universe is unified, blind to all else. The Lohengramm administration could probably never make peace with Job Trunicht's government, but they could and probably would with Yang's party if they ever wound up becoming an independant force again. On the other hand, maybe with Kircheis's help the Empire would have simply crushed the Alliance and none could dare oppose them -- that said, I think Kircheis would be open to hearing Yang's proposals of constitutionalism, just as Hilda is probably open to hearing Julian's (because she's a smart enough lass to realize that heriditary rule doesn't work or make sense). The story would be a lot less tragic, but probably also less interesting :P sensual benny fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 4, 2010 |
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Mar 4, 2010 01:12
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It's all thematic and emotional and dramatic. Even if someone's injuries "shouldn't have" killed them in the medical climate that you imagine would exist in that universe, that shouldn't really be a concern. People die because they were written to, and that's really all you need when appreciating a dramatic work. You can read into their deaths whatever you want, but it goes against the idea of letting someone else tell you a story to criticize things like that. That's just my opinion and my understanding of the nature of fiction, anyway.
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Mar 14, 2010 21:17
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DamnGlitch posted:
What is this quote you guys are talking about? I don't remember this. DamnGlitch posted:I'm sorry, are we watching the same show? I think his point is that despite using a sci-fi setting its really more of an opera or tragedy. The idea behind sci-fi, as a genre, is examining the implications behind certain advances, whereas technology and space really mean nothing to LoGH and it could be easily presented in other contexts.
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Mar 15, 2010 04:45
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DamnGlitch posted:Just a little slow in the beginning (though retroactively awesome if you ever go back and rewatch it). The extra episodes after the main series vary in quality, but the series itself is golden all the way through Overture To a New War should do a lot for the beginning; it smooths things out and makes a lot of stuff a lot clearer a lot earlier. On that subject, no, it doesn't get worse. It goes through changes, always for the better.
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Mar 17, 2010 00:42
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DamnGlitch posted:Yeah, It's pretty great but the only downside is the animation on that is better than the series in general so it can be jarring. I personally loved watching the first episodes again simply because all of the people you get to know and love are already there for the most part, so the various flashing names that seem impossible to remember actually are like "oh poo poo, it's mittenmyer! Woo!" That's true, the show is really strong on the rewatch. Unmistakeable Fire posted:I am a huge LOGH booster but I can say for sure that while it's consistency is great throughout there might be some plot developments where you say "I respect what they are trying to do here but I find myself enjoying it less" in comparison to most of the series where you are saying "this is loving great". What parts are you talking about, specifically? I'm just curious.
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Mar 17, 2010 01:19
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Popo posted:Very few of the Admirals struck me as chess players. Maybe Mecklinger, Reunthal and Wolfgang. Bittenfeld strikes me as more of a hungry hungry Hippos kind of dude. Apparently the novels have significantly less material than the anime, unlike how adaptations usually are in the Western world. One example: Dusty Attenborough doesn't exist in the books. Also Mecklinger is totally a chess man.
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Mar 29, 2010 23:14
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Paracelsus posted:Reinhard's illness: Not for the same reason that people were complaining about a couple pages back, more a matter of my own perceptions. When Yang and Prince Reinhard met in ep 54, Emil brought in some tea, and gave a really sly look when he gave it to Yang. Yang almost brought the tea to his lips, gave it a nasty look, and didn't touch it again. (In retrospect, it may have had more to do with the discussion about the water of one's home country.) I took it as Emil possibly having poisoned the tea, and spent the rest of the series wondering if Reinhard's declining health meant that Emil was slowly poisoning him as part of a drawn-out revenge plan. Reinhard likes coffee, and that's what Emil served. Yang has mentioned a few times throughout the series that he despises coffee, so he was grossed out by the choice of drink. You can colour that with a "waters of your own nation" kind of metaphor, but I really don't think poison has anything to do with it.
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Apr 5, 2010 14:21
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That's definitely the way to go. "My Conquest" functions kind of like a prologue -- it's self-contained and somewhat detached from the main story, but it sets up the characters and the setting well. "Overture" is more like a feature-length pilot, and leads directly into the main story, with a lot more colour and depth than the original two episodes. Conquest -> Overture -> Episode 3 and beyond Watch the Gaiden episodes (prequels) after you're finished with the main series and hurting for more.
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Apr 29, 2010 19:27
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