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Just to give you some numbers to understand the scale of repayment. The following are treated as standard amortised loans. Assumed $100k borrowed at 6.5% 25 year repayment: monthly payment $675.21 ($8102.52 per year) total interest paid $102.5k 15 year repayment: monthly payment $871.11 total interest paid $56.8k 10 repayment: monthly payment $1135.48 total interest paid $36.3k Unless you earn enough to pay the $6500 interest the loan would just keep getting larger (write off is rather important in this case). Note that the 25 year loan is $8102 in payments per year. If loan write off wasn't available I wouldn't recommend taking on more than a 10 year loan as you are punished with a lot of interest. My grandparents and mother had the same attitude to debt. Some debt is good in the right proportion and used for the right things. There will probably be some sort of write off for those who make all the payments but there's a risk of the 10 years and it disappears that you could have a fall back on the 20 year write off. Most of the targeting will be for those who avoid making payments but you never know what the Government will do in the future. Again make sure you satisfy all the rules for the write off. A lot of students screw up the details and find they don't qualify for the write off because they didn't disclose that when they applied for the loan.
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Nov 22, 2015 06:41
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Balqis posted:I mean, all of these "while students ought to do this" are interesting and certainly concerns of mine (gently caress, my grandfather told me NO debt was good). I'd love to make morally correct and fiscally wise decisions. But I still face a quandary - taking advantage of the government on the Public Service Loan Forgiveness would let me go to the school that feels best for me. I'd even say its good risk for high reward. If you take out loans when a PSLF program exists, it will exist for you. There is no reasonable universe in which your loan repayment program would be pulled out from under you while you're in the process of repayment. Any modifications to loan repayment programs would be done for future borrowers. PSLF is incorporated into the Master Promissory Note detailing the contractual terms of the loan. It would be an insurmountable legal challenge to try and retroactively change the terms, not to mention a political disaster. Any changes would affect future generations of borrowers, not existing ones. That said, PSLF doesn't magically make everything better. Debt still sucks and 100K in debt is still going to sting. I recommend looking at some loan calculators to figure out what your monthly payments would be based on salary estimates. You'll be making those payments while you pay rent, try to save up a down payment on a house, save money for a future family, or whatever you want to do with your life over the next 10 years.
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Nov 22, 2015 16:42
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It can also really affect you when you apply for other loans, say a small car loan. They can still use the 100k of debt as an excuse to deny you. I've been denied with only 30k and amazing credit score.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:28
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E-Money posted:PSLF is incorporated into the Master Promissory Note detailing the contractual terms of the loan. It would be an insurmountable legal challenge to try and retroactively change the terms, not to mention a political disaster. Any changes would affect future generations of borrowers, not existing ones. Awesome, a straight answer. All I knew about the program was that you couldn't actually apply for the forgiveness for many years, not that these terms were written into the contract. That makes my mind rest easier. I've taken a look at the calculators. With IBR, it should be pretty easy to keep myself afloat; I was even considering paying a lot more so that it would cover the interest and some of the principle, just in case. But since that would be pointless, that makes going to the expensive private school more affordable than the state school. poo poo, this program is messed up, but I guess I benefit. cheese eats mouse posted:It can also really affect you when you apply for other loans, say a small car loan. They can still use the 100k of debt as an excuse to deny you. I've been denied with only 30k and amazing credit score. Yeah, that's probably the hugest pitfall. At least its an incentive to look for more ways to keep tuition down. In other news, I got a good chunk of assistance and assistantships thrown at me, so I am less worried. Now to see about lowering room & board.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:16
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The payments over 10 years do add up to quite a bit of money you are doing the right thing looking to keep costs and borrowing down as much as possible.
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Nov 22, 2015 22:08
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Be careful about pslf, a trial balloon was floated last summer to cap the forgiveness at such a small amount that it wouldn't be useful (57.5k). It was actually put in the budget iirc but never passed. All the master promissory note arguments were actually not useful at all regarding it. http://educatedrisk.org/analysis/public-service-loan-forgiveness-real quote:With regard to incorporating a description of the public service loan forgiveness benefit in the MPN, the Department is already taking steps to refer to the program in the MPN and other program documents. However, the MPN will continue to state, as it currently does, that the terms and conditions of the loans are subject to the HEA as it is amended in accordance with the effective date of those amendments. Although there is no history in the program of Congress eliminating or reducing a borrower benefit, the Department does not believe that a reference to the public service loan forgiveness program in the MPN would provide the borrower with a contractual right to the benefit should Congress take action to eliminate that benefit from the HEA as of a particular effective date. Best case is you jump through every hoop right and pay 10-15% of your income minus the poverty line for loans for a decade, they disappear. More reasonable case is you miss a hoop (like my friends who didn't consolidate 8 years ago, sucks for them) and pay 10-15% for 20-25 years, then take a tax hit for a few hundred k and declare bankruptcy a few years after that. Worst case is ibr/paye end and your payments skyrocket and you can't ever pay them, resulting in default and a garnishment at 25% for the rest of your life. Note that if you have a house and car that this isn't actually that big a deal-25% of median income minus the poverty line is like 600 bucks a month, a lot less than most people are paying. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 16:24
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Balqis posted:Yeah, that's probably the hugest pitfall. At least its an incentive to look for more ways to keep tuition down. In other news, I got a good chunk of assistance and assistantships thrown at me, so I am less worried. Now to see about lowering room & board. Work part time while you're in college. Live cheap, eat cheap, party cheap. Do everything to borrow as little as possible.
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Nov 24, 2015 13:08
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Woo, I am back, beating the dead horse. Hope you understand, student loans are not something I want to take on lightly.mastershakeman posted:Be careful about pslf, a trial balloon was floated last summer to cap the forgiveness at such a small amount that it wouldn't be useful (57.5k). It was actually put in the budget iirc but never passed. All the master promissory note arguments were actually not useful at all regarding it. Yeah, I know about the cap. But the presidential budget doesn't have any legislative force and is often more of a political statement. Yes, it's scary that even the Dems are willing to modify it, but by the time they physically change the law, I'll be in grad school (I start this January). The same article you linked (thanks, by the way, that was extremely informative) also makes a strong case that any changes will not be retroactive. But yeah, I understand that because it is technically not a contract, there is still risk involved. I wonder if the risk is still worth it. The odds seem mostly in my favor, though I was considering paying more than I need to to cover the interest and at least some of the principle just in case I do get hosed down the road. As for hoops, I am trying to understand what others there may be? Public Sevice for 10 years, full time. Worst case, I can teach for all that and still qualify (I have teaching experience and enjoy it so I can say with some confidence that I can follow through), plus get the teaching credit after 5, maybe, to lower the loans further. Qualifying Federal loans - I'd be taking out unsubsidized Stafford loans and PLUS loans which both qualify. Proper paperwork - well I know about it in advance and will be sure to follow up on it. Am I missing any? If you could tell me about what hosed your friends, if it isn't too personal, that would be very helpful. Is there a danger that IBR would end and retroactively effect me? That isn't something I'd considered. I looked at the 25 year payment structure, though, and if I do some of the things I can do to minimize my debt, I can handle it. Probably. Dik Hz posted:No, the hugest pitfall is the loving $100,000 of debt. Not being able to qualify for a car loan is the tiniest pitfall. Yes, I do get the sinking feeling in my stomach when I think about that much debt. That's why I have a very conservative back up school I'm considering, where I get in state tuition, can live at home, and get graduate assistantships. It isn't nearly as good a program though. But the Ivy League program offers a lot more opportunities and honestly, since PSLF is a thing, it seems to be a realistic possibility. Hell, if this lines up, I'd be paying less under PSLF to go to the Ivy League than I would to go to school at home. hosed up isn't it? That's why I'm trying to thoroughly research this before jumping in. Anyways, that's why I'm asking about the other negative aspects of debt besides the loving debt. Given the assumption that the Government will forgive it, without even taxing it, how else would it negatively impact me? Maybe not being able to qualify for basic loans is a good thing to know. Anything else? And yes, If I do that, of course I'd live cheap. That's a given. I'm not that much of a freeloader.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:15
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Balqis posted:Yes, I do get the sinking feeling in my stomach when I think about that much debt. That's why I have a very conservative back up school I'm considering, where I get in state tuition, can live at home, and get graduate assistantships. It isn't nearly as good a program though. If you went to the conservative back-up school and graduated with no debt at the top of your class, and then worked 3 years in a lovely yet industry-relevant job, you'd be infinitely more hire-able than the fresh ivy league grad. And over the next 7 years, you'd come out ahead over the loan forgiveness as well. If everything works out perfectly in your favor, and you're able to accurately predict the next 14 years of your life (lol), then you might come out marginally ahead by taking out $100,000 in student loans and qualifying for PSLF. But if any of the bullshit that knocks perfectly well-intentioned people offtrack happens, you're hosed to the tune of $100,000+ in non-dischargable debt. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 04:39
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Balqis posted:But the Ivy League program offers a lot more opportunities and honestly, since PSLF is a thing, it seems to be a realistic possibility. Hell, if this lines up, I'd be paying less under PSLF to go to the Ivy League than I would to go to school at home. hosed up isn't it? That's why I'm trying to thoroughly research this before jumping in. Not beating up on you here, but what extra opportunities do you think the Ivy is going to offer? And versus what state school?
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Nov 25, 2015 06:03
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RogueLemming posted:Not beating up on you here, but what extra opportunities do you think the Ivy is going to offer? And versus what state school? It's the University of Pennsylvania versus George Mason. The advantages to me boil down to: -increased networking opportunities: several of the professors have links to the national and international organizations I'd be interested in working for; the head of the international educational policy department is the UNESCO chair of learning and literacy. -increased degree specialization and flexibility : I need to take a lot of elective credits for my degree, chosen from a large range of classes both inside and outside the program and the school of education, so I can pick which ones would be best for my career choices. I can get a double masters.) -increased practical experience (there is both a teaching practicum and a required internship, so I'd be physically teaching and advised on method longer. There is a lady whose job it is to specifically find the best internship for my specialization, and the school has links with local museums, community learning centers, other Ivy League school programs, and international schools that I can take advantage of -increased standard of living: If I'm going to be honest, this is a factor - I don't really want to live at home, though things are relatively ok here. Philadelphia is affordable, walkable, and I know people there. On my own I can better control my diet and lifestyle, while at home I have to adapt to those of my very sedentary and lovely eating parents. I AM WILLING TO COMPROMISE ON THIS to avoid acquiring debt if that turns out to be the better option, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd be happier up at Philly. As for George Mason, it has a decent program, and its near DC so I'd probably find some decent internships. Its just more specifically geared to people who just want to teach, and while maybe through a lot of effort I could push out of it, but I am in no way certain about my ability to do that. After the break, I'm going over to talk to the professors to see what other opportunities GMU can provide (stupid part time holiday hours at the wine shop have kept from that till now) so I can be even better informed about my decision. Balqis fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 14:49
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If whatever degree you want to do requires research or is designed to put you into the higher academic workforce (STEM PHD), adjust your budget and take the hit to go to UPenn. If the degree you're pursuing is meant for museum curating or whatever, go wherever it is cheaper.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:39
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Go to Penn and take out the maximum you can in public loans like gradplus because it won't matter if you have 100 or 300k to repay regardless of your payment plan. As long as you can afford tuition plus living expenses from public only loans you should max them out. Edit: haha there's no max on gradplus apparently "The maximum loan amount is the student’s cost of attendance (determined by the school) minus any other financial aid received." So yeah interest rates are irrelevant, just take out nothing but public loans and attend penn. You'll be on ibr/paye either way so what's it matter if one is more expensive-50k debt or a million debt will be the same monthly payment. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 19:55
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Balqis posted:It's the University of Pennsylvania versus George Mason. The advantages to me boil down to: Any chance that UPenn will offer any sort of scholarships or financial aid, or has that time already passed?
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Nov 25, 2015 22:28
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Balqis posted:It's the University of Pennsylvania versus George Mason. The advantages to me boil down to:
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Nov 26, 2015 00:11
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I'll pitch in, although I'd suggest you speak to financial aid advisors at both schools. It seems like you've already made up your mind about where you want to go, and are looking for outside justification. Most people in this thread will not recommend higher loan debt - the risks are too risky, and it will end up haunting you. I'm with Wickerman - I'm of the firm belief that unless the job you'll get after will put you into a 6 digit income, there's no justification for that much debt. I understand connections are nice, but every university has connections and also conferences and organizations exist for networking purposes. So you can still get that at the cheaper school. I went to a school that's not exactly known for its amazing academia and am now working with world-famous sciency types in their fields. It's doable, you just need to make the effort. Ultimately it's your decision. If you think contentment is worth the extra finances, then do it. Just be aware that you'll have a lot of debt hanging over you indefinitely, and you'll be counting on a federal forgiveness program to get you out of that debt. It's a gamble you have to be willing to live with.
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Nov 26, 2015 02:16
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Take out double for the first 2 years, then get a part time job at the uni, and enter repayment with 10 $ month ibr payment ( cause you only make 5k a year) and get forgiveness 2 years early? Would that work?
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Nov 26, 2015 04:33
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RogueLemming posted:Any chance that UPenn will offer any sort of scholarships or financial aid, or has that time already passed? Yeah, I've gotten 10,000 in scholarships to UPenn plus an assistanship the whole time I'm there. It only covers another 5,000 of the debt though. Dik Hz posted:George Mason is a great school. It sounds like you just want to tell people you went to an ivy league school. Yeah, It's a good school. Having lived near it for a while, knowing people who've gone there, and done a few tours, I just never liked the atmosphere there. But it is a financially sensible choice. Thanks thread. You've helped me learn more about the specifics of PSLR and some good warnings about the poo poo I might be getting myself into should I finally make up my drat mind. Yeah, to a certain extent it would be nice to have justification, but really I just thought it would be good to get another perspective besides my own. Have a nice Thanksgiving!
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Nov 26, 2015 05:24
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What are you studying? If it's Wharton, go to Wharton. My 0.02.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:02
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I have about 26K in federal student loans (graduated 2012) with interest rates from 3.125-6.55%. I am paying the minimum IBR payments (which are about to double to ~300$/mo yay salary increases!) Thanks to my grandma, I also have about 14K in a bunch of Series EE savings bonds from 1988-1997. They will reach start reaching their final maturity in 2018 and have an interest rate of 4% (except for the last 3 when interest rates plummeted to like 1.67%). Should I wait for the bonds to completely mature and get all that sweet government interest or is the higher interest rate of my loans negating the saving bond interest I'm getting? Should I just cash them now to pay off half my loans? I have no idea if I am losing money waiting. 
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Nov 27, 2015 23:18
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eig posted:I have about 26K in federal student loans (graduated 2012) with interest rates from 3.125-6.55%. I am paying the minimum IBR payments (which are about to double to ~300$/mo yay salary increases!)
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Nov 28, 2015 03:52
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I'm in a similar situation to eig, just with less bonds to cash. I'm looking into refinancing to get rid of some of my 9% (lol) Navient loans. If I have the money, it's better to pay some off, then refinance, right? That covers my private loans. I also have purely federal loans that I was looking into eventually having forgiven since I'm a federal employee. But I realized I'm on the 10 year payment plan. So would I save any money by changing that repayment schedule to be more than 10 years and then getting it forgiven? I know I get charged income tax when I get them forgiven.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:09
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eig posted:I have about 26K in federal student loans (graduated 2012) with interest rates from 3.125-6.55%. I am paying the minimum IBR payments (which are about to double to ~300$/mo yay salary increases!) Personally, I wouldn't prioritize paying off the 3.125% notes if you qualify for the student interest loan deduction. It's technically an adjustment to income, so you can take it with a standard deduction. That effectively lowers your interest rates by your tax bracket. So if you're in the 25% income tax bracket, your effective interest rate is ~2.5%. With all the protections on federal student loans, I'd prioritize retirement saving ahead of paying the lower rate ones off.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:30
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Deeters posted:I'm in a similar situation to eig, just with less bonds to cash. I'm looking into refinancing to get rid of some of my 9% (lol) Navient loans. If I have the money, it's better to pay some off, then refinance, right? Deeters posted:That covers my private loans. I also have purely federal loans that I was looking into eventually having forgiven since I'm a federal employee. But I realized I'm on the 10 year payment plan. So would I save any money by changing that repayment schedule to be more than 10 years and then getting it forgiven? I know I get charged income tax when I get them forgiven.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:37
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SiGmA_X posted:Being you're paying more in interest than you're making, I'd cash them all in now and pay off the loans in order from highest to lowest interest rate. And then pay as much a month as possible to get the loans to zero ASAP. So I should just make one huge payment? Is there anyway to calculate how that affects my taxes? I know I need to pay tax on bond interest earned...I doubt my loan interest deduction would cover it. I do have a huge savings right now as well because I am trying to save for a mortgage down payment while living at my parents. So using up all the bonds doesn't drain my savings at all at least! edit: If I pay off half my loans (which would be my consolidation loans with the higher interest) in a chunk will it lower the min payment for the other half? NYC area rent is the worst :-( eig fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 16:16
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I have about $14k in consolidated, unsubsidized direct loans left from undergrad, all of it the principal. I am applying to doctoral programs this year. If I am admitted, money will be tight on my stipend, so I would like to cut out my student loan payments without accruing additional interest. I've (re)read the OP and I think that, since my loan is unsubsidized, there's no way for me to get a true deferment while I'm in grad school. Is that right? And if so, what would make the most sense? Can/should I take out a grad loan, pay off my undergrad, put the grad loan in deferment, or some wizardry like that? Petey fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 18:01
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Petey posted:I have about $14k in consolidated, unsubsidized direct loans left from undergrad, all of it the principal. I am applying to doctoral programs this year. If I am admitted, money will be tight on my stipend, so I would like to cut out my student loan payments without accruing additional interest. Eh, I wouldn't recommend that since gradPLUS has a higher interest rate than the undergrad loans. You can get a deferment on them via the "in school deferment," the interest will keep accruing but you can pay anyway if you want. You might need to contact your servicer and/or the National Student Clearinghouse to have it added to your account. I've actually opted to leave mine in repayment and have them on an income-based payment plan while I study. Because my income is so low, my payments are $0 - but I still pay more when I can. It counts toward my forgiveness time so it's been good so far.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:13
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Wiggy Marie posted:Eh, I wouldn't recommend that since gradPLUS has a higher interest rate than the undergrad loans. You can get a deferment on them via the "in school deferment," the interest will keep accruing but you can pay anyway if you want. You might need to contact your servicer and/or the National Student Clearinghouse to have it added to your account. I've actually opted to leave mine in repayment and have them on an income-based payment plan while I study. Because my income is so low, my payments are $0 - but I still pay more when I can. It counts toward my forgiveness time so it's been good so far. Hrm. If you're on IBR, the payments are 0, but the interest still accrues, right? I guess I'm trying to figure out the relative value of not needing to worry about interest for 4-5 (hopefully) years vs paying a slightly higher interest rate when my income is (hopefully) a lot higher on the other side. Intuitively, it seems to me I would rather not have to pay even modest interest in grad school -- how did you figure out what was worth it for you? My undergrad loan was a 5.875, fyi, so the difference is only about a point.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:20
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Petey posted:Hrm. If you're on IBR, the payments are 0, but the interest still accrues, right? I guess I'm trying to figure out the relative value of not needing to worry about interest for 4-5 (hopefully) years vs paying a slightly higher interest rate when my income is (hopefully) a lot higher on the other side. Intuitively, it seems to me I would rather not have to pay even modest interest in grad school -- how did you figure out what was worth it for you? The interest accrues on the unsub portion only for the first few years, which is the same as what would happen under the in school deferment. I decided that accruing the payments under IBR was worth sacrificing the years of saved interest, since I'll be that much closer, but you can use the ISD instead if you feel that's more worthwhile for you. Sidenote, I didn't realize the gradPLUS had dropped so significantly! That's impressive.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:04
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Petey posted:Hrm. If you're on IBR, the payments are 0, but the interest still accrues, right? I guess I'm trying to figure out the relative value of not needing to worry about interest for 4-5 (hopefully) years vs paying a slightly higher interest rate when my income is (hopefully) a lot higher on the other side. Intuitively, it seems to me I would rather not have to pay even modest interest in grad school -- how did you figure out what was worth it for you? I'm almost certain that GradPLUS loans accrue interest while you're in school too. So you'd be in the same boat paying those old loans off with a new one as if you let them place your unsubsidized loans in deferment except your interest accrues at a higher rate.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:42
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Dik Hz posted:If you have the money, pay them off asap before they accrue more interest. Ok, that's what I thought. So if I want to look into refinancing, is Credible any good or should I just look into getting quotes on my own? My credit score is over 750 and my current salary is over $60k, so I would hope I can get a much better rate than I currently have.
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Nov 29, 2015 00:00
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Deeters posted:Ok, that's what I thought. So if I want to look into refinancing, is Credible any good or should I just look into getting quotes on my own? My credit score is over 750 and my current salary is over $60k, so I would hope I can get a much better rate than I currently have.
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Nov 29, 2015 14:48
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Ancillary Character posted:I'm almost certain that GradPLUS loans accrue interest while you're in school too. So you'd be in the same boat paying those old loans off with a new one as if you let them place your unsubsidized loans in deferment except your interest accrues at a higher rate. Ohhh, I thought that gradPLUS loans *didn't* accrue interest while you were enrolled as a graduate student. If it still does (and it looks like it does), then there's no benefit to doing it. That explains why I was so confused by Wiggy's answer.
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Nov 29, 2015 15:59
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Sorry about that Petey, I should've said that in my reply! GradPLUS as of now are still treated as unsub in terms of interest accrual.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:06
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They don't make direct consolidation very easy, or refi of private loans for that matter.
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Nov 30, 2015 15:14
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Massasoit posted:They don't make direct consolidation very easy, or refi of private loans for that matter.
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Dec 1, 2015 00:43
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I mean it's going through but they are like "we didn't get your info for IBR" even though I got a confirmation email that they recieved my income documentation. The consolidation is fairly simple. The refi of private loans is a big pain, but in general getting the loans sorted out is a pain. Looking forward to having them consolidated/refi. Particularly away from Navient.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:23
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Dik Hz posted:I consolidated my direct loans 3 years ago and it was incredibly easy. I filled out the form and mailed it in. It went through painlessly in about 3 weeks. I just took a look at this option. Currently with Great Lakes, I have several loans with different rates, but I only have to make one payment, which is convenient. Should I just leave it as is? Current loans: 
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Dec 1, 2015 02:58
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Moneyball posted:I just took a look at this option. Currently with Great Lakes, I have several loans with different rates, but I only have to make one payment, which is convenient. Should I just leave it as is? The reason I consolidated is because I had the old variable rate loans and wanted to take advantage of the low rates.
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Dec 2, 2015 13:11
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If you are signed up for the graduated-extended repayment plan and you make a 2nd payment in the month is any of that put toward interest or does it entirely go to principle? In other words when you make a payment does it calculate the interest accrued since your last payment and apply the payment to that first?
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Dec 4, 2015 00:35
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