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Goffer
Apr 4, 2007
"..."

So, were Haley and Red supposed to be related to draketooth clan (what with the red hair and all, friends in the desert reference, etc)?

If so, would the Cloister spell and the antimagic zone prison have protected them against the familicide spell?

Usually with the AOE spells the save is easier than direct target spells, therefore with a spell with an AOE of this scope maybe relatively minor protections (or other epic magic in the case of Cloister) could effectively hide them from the spell?

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ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Goffer posted:

So, were Haley and Red supposed to be related to draketooth clan (what with the red hair and all, friends in the desert reference, etc)?

If so, would the Cloister spell and the antimagic zone prison have protected them against the familicide spell?

Usually with the AOE spells the save is easier than direct target spells, therefore with a spell with an AOE of this scope maybe relatively minor protections (or other epic magic in the case of Cloister) could effectively hide them from the spell?

This is what I'd bet on. The Cloister is epic magic on its own, and the anti-magic field COULD be pierced with epic magic, but it likely wasn't something Haerta put into the spell while she was designing it.

Rumda
Nov 3, 2009

*bip*


Theres also the possibility that the connection is on Haley's mothers side, which would protect Ian, and then were down to cloister protecting Haley and since epic must defeat epic it fits.


God V would turn suicidal if s/he learned how close he was to murdering their best friend.

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.


Speedball posted:

I just want to know if V can pull his karma out of the screaming nosedive it currently is in.

There's no "karma" on my alignment chart, buddy.

Rumda posted:

Theres also the possibility that the connection is on Haley's mothers side, which would protect Ian, and then were down to cloister protecting Haley and since epic must defeat epic it fits.


God V would turn suicidal if s/he learned how close he was to murdering their best friend.

Does V really have "friends" as we think of them? Even at his/her best, he/she is pretty distant towards the other party members.

Rumda
Nov 3, 2009

*bip*


I don't know s/he always seemed close to Haley, after all s/he didn't push theirself so to find Roy's corpse or Belkar, s/he wanted to prove magic is as powerful as s/he thinks it is by finding Haley, and if you have read OoTPCs then is shows that V and Haley were friend before they joined the party and V only joined up a her insistence

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.


Rumda posted:

I don't know s/he always seemed close to Haley, after all s/he didn't push theirself so to find Roy's corpse or Belkar, s/he wanted to prove magic is as powerful as s/he thinks it is by finding Haley, and if you have read OoTPCs then is shows that V and Haley were friend before they joined the party and V only joined up a her insistence

Gotcha. I haven't gotten the printed books yet, so there are things I don't know.

Geshtal
Nov 8, 2006


Maxwell Lord posted:

I really hope there's a new strip soon.

(EDIT: With my luck it'd just intensify the debate.)

Won't work. You forgot to ask if Burlew is all right.

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!


So if the entire Draketooth clan is dead, who cast the Arcane Eye?

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

blastron posted:

So if the entire Draketooth clan is dead, who cast the Arcane Eye?

That was Nale (he tells Tarquin).

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007



Alchenar posted:

That was Nale (he tells Tarquin).

Specifically, based on casting-color, it was the Dark-Elf that hangs out with Nale.

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

Speedball posted:

I just want to know if V can pull his karma out of the screaming nosedive it currently is in.
That's not really necessary when you can just turn yourself into a lich and no longer have to worry about dying.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

Power Gamer for Hire


Factor_VIII posted:

That's not really necessary when you can just turn yourself into a lich and no longer have to worry about dying.

Precisely. Like the Big X said, "Be a vampire, or a ghost, or an immortal with a paint-by-numbers portrait in the rec room. Hell, even a brain-in-a-jar, in a pinch. Anything to avoid the Big Fire Below."

I guess explains why so many intelligent undead are evil...they're dodging hellfire!

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

jng2058 posted:

Precisely. Like the Big X said, "Be a vampire, or a ghost, or an immortal with a paint-by-numbers portrait in the rec room. Hell, even a brain-in-a-jar, in a pinch. Anything to avoid the Big Fire Below."

I guess explains why so many intelligent undead are evil...they're dodging hellfire!
That and the fact that becoming undead often involves an alignment shift. Liches have to do evil stuff as part of the ritual to become undead, and turning into a vampire automatically changes one's alignment.

Barring old age, just having a few Clones with Gentle Repose running is a good way to avoid having to go to the afterlife. It's actually better than lichdom in a way, since you can have multiple clones as opposed to a single phylactery.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



I think Clone can actually let you dodge death by old age too: since the clone doesn't age, you can kill yourself once you're pretty old and you'll pop up into a younger body. The clause only applies if you actually die from aging.

Though, a DM might not allow you to use Gentle Repose for the preservation, since the spell very explicitly targets a corpse, and while an inert clone is pretty much the same thing one could argue that a Necromancy spell can tell the difference.

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

NihilCredo posted:

I think Clone can actually let you dodge death by old age too: since the clone doesn't age, you can kill yourself once you're pretty old and you'll pop up into a younger body. The clause only applies if you actually die from aging.
3E is pretty explicit about characters dying when their time is up even when they get abilities that stop aging. E.g. Monks and Druids still keel over once they hit their maximum age. I guess whether the Clone spell allows you to skirt that is a grey area.

Pathfinder introduces a special ability 20th level wizards can get instead of a bonus feat called Immortality, which does what the title says. Means powerful wizards can live forever without having to resort to evil means such as lichdom.

NihilCredo posted:

Though, a DM might not allow you to use Gentle Repose for the preservation, since the spell very explicitly targets a corpse, and while an inert clone is pretty much the same thing one could argue that a Necromancy spell can tell the difference.
In that case I guess you could use Temporal Stasis. There was also the 9th level spell Stasis Clone which produced a clone that was under a stasis effect until the character died.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006
Animated gif missing

Well the only way to make sure he lives forever and doesn't convert to evil or go to hell would would be an Evangion transformation. Better dual to psionicist and start researchin'. Good news is Elves live a really long time anyway.

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

greatn posted:

Well the only way to make sure he lives forever and doesn't convert to evil or go to hell would would be an Evangion transformation. Better dual to psionicist and start researchin'. Good news is Elves live a really long time anyway.
A bit hard outside of Athas I think. Though if one is willing to settle for just avoiding going to hell, then just hopping into a Sphere of Annihilation might be a solution.

Sergeant Rock
Apr 28, 2002

"... call the expert at kissing and stuff..."

Isn't a Clone a copy of you, not the 'real' you? So if you die, why should the DM let you play a Clone? They're NPCs...

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

Sergeant Rock posted:

Isn't a Clone a copy of you, not the 'real' you? So if you die, why should the DM let you play a Clone? They're NPCs...
In 2E it was a separate person. In 3E a clone has no soul and the original's soul moves in and occupies the body. Thus it is the same person.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


V's arc, from the time he left the party to now, has been my favorite part of OotS. Other parts of the strip have come close (Tarquin, Thog) from time to time, but anything that has to do with V has been wonderful.

V's the best.

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


We already know V can't get a happy ending. I'm half expecting he intentionally fails a save vs disintegration or something while the fiends are possessing him.

Speaking of happy endings, apparently Elan is the only one who'll get one. Except Haley is officially his lover now, so if she dies or something horrible happens to her it can't be happy for him. I'm really interested in seeing how that works.

DaveWoo
Aug 14, 2004



wdarkk posted:

We already know V can't get a happy ending. I'm half expecting he intentionally fails a save vs disintegration or something while the fiends are possessing him.

Speaking of happy endings, apparently Elan is the only one who'll get one. Except Haley is officially his lover now, so if she dies or something horrible happens to her it can't be happy for him. I'm really interested in seeing how that works.
Has it actually been said that only Elan will get a happy ending, though? My understanding was that at least Elan will get a happy ending, which doesn't necessarily preclude others from having happy endings as well.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

I have to learn forbidden magic I took an oath to wipe out, stop an invasion of Orcs, rescue the Council of Seven, and on top of all that, I'm stuck with you.


wdarkk posted:

We already know V can't get a happy ending. I'm half expecting he intentionally fails a save vs disintegration or something while the fiends are possessing him.

Speaking of happy endings, apparently Elan is the only one who'll get one. Except Haley is officially his lover now, so if she dies or something horrible happens to her it can't be happy for him. I'm really interested in seeing how that works.

No, the Oracle only said that Elan would get a happy ending - NOT that he would be the ONLY one to get a happy ending.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

No, the Oracle only said that Elan would get a happy ending - NOT that he would be the ONLY one to get a happy ending.

Yeah. He implied that some of the others wouldn't, but never said all of them wouldn't.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

Power Gamer for Hire


wdarkk posted:

We already know V can't get a happy ending. I'm half expecting he intentionally fails a save vs disintegration or something while the fiends are possessing him.

Speaking of happy endings, apparently Elan is the only one who'll get one. Except Haley is officially his lover now, so if she dies or something horrible happens to her it can't be happy for him. I'm really interested in seeing how that works.

Elan's the only one guaranteed to get a happy ending. That doesn't necessarily exclude anyone else in the party, though the way it's phrased suggests that not everyone will get one. My money's on Belkar not getting one, what with the more or less imminent death and all. Probably not Durkon either, what with the posthumously bit. V and Roy are in the grey area, but since we all agree that Elan's ending won't be all that happy unless she's around to give it to him, Haley's probably in the clear.

EDIT: Man, double triple ninja'd. You guys are quick on your keyboards!

jng2058 fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2012 around 01:02

seaborgium
Aug 1, 2002

"Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"


jng2058 posted:

Elan's the only one guaranteed to get a happy ending. That doesn't necessarily exclude anyone else in the party, though the way it's phrased suggests that not everyone will get one. My money's on Belkar not getting one, what with the more or less imminent death and all. Probably not Durkon either, what with the posthumously bit. V and Roy are in the grey area, but since we all agree that Elan's ending won't be all that happy unless she's around to give it to him, Haley's probably in the clear.

EDIT: Man, double triple ninja'd. You guys are quick on your keyboards!

Durkon was actually pretty happy about his ending, even if it wasn't his happiest possibility he was pretty stoked about getting to return home to be be buried.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

No, the Oracle only said that Elan would get a happy ending - NOT that he would be the ONLY one to get a happy ending.

At the very least, Haley will also because, after all, Elan's ending can't be happy without his love interest!

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition


It's probably worth noting here that, given that we're talking about Elan, a "happy ending" could mean drat near anything as long as it was narratively satisfying.

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

Speaking of immortality, I came across this thread that sums up in its opening posts all the ways to be or become immortal in 3.5E D&D.

jng2058 posted:

Probably not Durkon either, what with the posthumously bit. V and Roy are in the grey area, but since we all agree that Elan's ending won't be all that happy unless she's around to give it to him, Haley's probably in the clear.
Durkon was pleased to know he'll go back even if it is posthumous. I think dying heroically would count as a good ending.

Cabbit
Jul 19, 2001

Shines like Gold.


Wanderer posted:

It's probably worth noting here that, given that we're talking about Elan, a "happy ending" could mean drat near anything as long as it was narratively satisfying.

He strikes me as the dude who would accept dying for a good cause, if he gave it his absolute best, a happy ending as long as the end result justified it.

Goffer
Apr 4, 2007
"..."

I'm pretty sure a happy ending for Elan has to involve him and Roy becoming half brothers and hanging out for eternity, or at least till the epilogue. I wouldn't call it a happy ending for Roy but i reckon he'll survive.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

This is how Davos feels.
This is how Davos feels all the time.



Elan specifically broke dramatic convention by telling Haley what happened with Therkla because he didn't see how they could get a happy ending if he wasn't completely honest; "I live happily ever after with Haley" is probably on his mental definition of the term.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Despairity


I could easily see Elan sacrificing himself to save Hayley. He's happy she's alive but we're all bummed as hell

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


Huh, for some reason I remembered the oracle's words as "just you".

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

I have to learn forbidden magic I took an oath to wipe out, stop an invasion of Orcs, rescue the Council of Seven, and on top of all that, I'm stuck with you.


Rarity posted:

I could easily see Elan sacrificing himself to save Hayley. He's happy she's alive but we're all bummed as hell

That could happen... but that is not the impression I got from reading Rich's commentary in the books about that scene.

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

Rarity posted:

I could easily see Elan sacrificing himself to save Hayley. He's happy she's alive but we're all bummed as hell
Until they get a cleric to cast Raise Dead?

Brannock
Feb 9, 2006

cheesy anime pizza undresses you with pepperoni eyes

Factor_VIII posted:

Until they get a cleric to cast Raise Dead?

Not if the sacrifice involves the Rift/Snarl.

The Rooster
Jul 25, 2004

If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one

Wanderer posted:

It's probably worth noting here that, given that we're talking about Elan, a "happy ending" could mean drat near anything as long as it was narratively satisfying.

I think to Elan, such an ending would be a "Good Ending" with "Happy Ending" being a specific type of good ending. I'm sure they will all get good endings, just because Rich is a good writer.

Or maybe Elan will just good a full-release massage somewhere.

Poison Mushroom
Sep 30, 2009

She's dead inside,
you know.


The Rooster posted:

Or maybe Elan will just good a full-release massage somewhere.
Haley puts those ranks in Sleight of Hand to good use?

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jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

Power Gamer for Hire


Colon V posted:

Haley puts those ranks in Sleight of Hand to good use?

We've already seen that she knows the finer points of Use Rope...

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