|
Here's how I think Miko will be conivnced to join the Linear Guild: 1) OOTS carts Miko to prison, and locks her away, forgetting about her with the dual distraction of Hinjo wanting to know what's going on, and an army of undead and hobgoblins coming. 2) Nale pieces together what's happened, and realizes that Leafy and Pompey aren't coming for the save. 3) Nale/Sabine convince Miko that Sabine is an LG outsider, imprisoned by the evil, corrupted Sapphire Guard. They make a deal something along the lines of "Sabine will restore your powers if you help us escape, and oh yeah, together we can rid the world of the evil that is the OOTS." Miko will jump to the conclusion that the Gods do care for her, and eagerly accept. 4) The 3 of them escape, with Thog (who is the closest to "good" of all of them) and kill a lot of Samurai/Paladins on the way out. 5) Miko gradually just begins to accept the lie, and collapses into "the crazy". No longer able to differentiate between right and wrong, as when she is restored, anything she scans for evil is in fact good, and therefore must be killed. In this way, she makes a great Blackguard. Nale will use her mostly for distractions, and to point at things he wants to perferates with holes. 6) After a time, the need to manipulate Miko is gone, as evil will be good, and vice versa. It's what the gods want, after all. NutShellBill fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Feb 5, 2007 |
#
¿
Feb 5, 2007 18:31
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 2, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
Kahrytes posted:That's up to the DM. At low levels 1-10 I generally state that fumbles can happen on attacks. As for skills, rolling a 1 on a check is usually enough of a punishment, you're not supposed to be able to critically fail. However, when my PC's hit level 11, I state that a critical fumble is actually a -10 to hit. Egro, they could possible still roll a 1, and still hit their target. There just comes a time when dropping your weapon like some peasant who doesn't know what the hell they're doing doesn't make sense anymore. You can still screw up big, and that's what a 1 indicates, but no one likes critcal fumbles. That's why I make up a d100 list of "Things that can go wrong" for those first 10 levels. Flavour is everything.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2007 02:12
|
|
|
Cowcaster posted:I'm ok with people discussing it, like the_steve said it's a D&D based comic! I just get annoyed by the people who think that everything that happens in the comic needs to be completely grounded within the ruleset of a D&D world. It's not the end-all-beat-all reasoning for every itty-bitty thing that happens. Except for the strips where the D & D rules ARE the punchline. 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2007 21:04
|
|
|
Either Miko meets the Linear Guild in an adjoining cell, or Roy/hinjo exposition. Betting on the former, but maybe both since Wednesdays are long strip days, it seems.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2007 22:18
|
|
|
SuperKlaus posted:I really like Psion's prediction with Hinjo joining the team and being Miko's opposite, but if Miko joins the Linear Guild I can't see how she wouldn't become dominant. She's drat near magic-proof (or would be again once she gets Blackguard levels) and so can't be charmed into obedience barring Burlew just saying she is, I think she'd smash the Guild in a stand-up fight even with it being three-on-one, and I don't think she'd happily play subordinate because she's just not like that. And Miko being dominant isn't cool because you'd lose the megalomaniacal scheming. Nale wouldn't need magic, he'd need a subtle psychological nudge, a bit of verbal manipulation, and a promise that her powers will be restored. It won't take much to convince her that she's smiting "evil" once she sees that the OOTS is taking more damamge from her attacks again. And she is prone to hopping to non-sensical conclusions. I'm not saying Nale can control her forever, just long enough for her to serve his purpose. He's evil, that's what he does.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 16, 2007 17:30
|
|
|
I think the most important thing to note is that Miko STILL doesn't think she's fallen, or what she did was evil. Once the jailbreak occurs during the battle, (and it will happen, trust me), I think Sabine shapeshifts into a Cleric who offers Miko a chance to fight evil again, which she'll gladly sign anything to do. Also, I think we're less than 15 strips away from Belkar dying. Of course it IS high level D & D, so that's mostly just an inconvenience.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2007 03:08
|
|
|
I like Erfworld too. It's kinda cutesy, but forgivably so, because there's a reason for it. OoTS started off rather slow for me too, I'm hoping it picks up.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2007 00:50
|
|
|
Wow, I actually think this is where Roy dies. I could be wrong, but the guy who writes it seems to big on setting things up, and he's set up Roy's death for quite a while, in a subtle manner. Hints: 1) The Oracle says that Belkar will possibly be "involved" for Roy's death. Giving him the ring qualifies, I think. 2) Roy's martyr complex. Did Roy have to jump Xykon right then and there? Not really, but as always, he feels its up to him as the "competant" member of the party. 3) Tactical error. Roy just jumped a high level lich riding a dragon, armed with a sword, a ring of jumping, and some guts. If I were his DM, there's a very good chance he'd be dead shortly. 4) No V + plus freefalling = splat. More specifically, no feather fall. I think there are a few reasons that V is away from the batlle, and the biggest one is the resulting plot hole from watching Roy plummet to his death. There's also the idea that Xykon will get pissed off enough at Roy to do something that you can't get raised from. With V not there to see what happened, Roy could be shipped off to another dimension, or disintegrated, and OoTS might not know how to get him back. 5) Impact: Roy is the member of the party that would likely have an effect on everyone: Durkon an Haley seems to be friendly enough to miss him, V would feel guilty, Belkar would realize that the Oracle is right, and Elan would be crushed. The party would all have a real reason to go after Xykon, Elan would take up the mantle of leadership, and dedicate his fight to Roy. 6) Audience Impact: People would notice, and probably just upset enough to keep reading. 7) New nameless guy: He doesn't have a name yet, but one of the prisoners is behaving an awful lot like he belongs with the party. AND, he clearly likes Haley, so that's a natural foil for Elan, and a reason to join up. Things do not look good for Roy. I kinda hope I'm wrong, he's my favourite character.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2007 17:57
|
|
|
Well, it'll be a lot more dramatic I think. Probably a 3 or 4 strip fight, but I could see Roy even being turned undead here just for that extra kick in the unk to the PCs (and the readers). Still, it's been set up for a couple hundred strips, IMHO.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2007 20:04
|
|
|
I think Burlew thinks of himself more as a D & D dungeon master (hold your jokes, please) than a comic book artist. As such, he's probably used to improvising on the fly for when his players guess where he's going, and he's carrying it over here. Problem is, that works fine in the premise of the game, sometime ad-libbing a plan B ending onto a campaign or story arc is good for keeping your players on their toes. As a writer though, he has to realize that out of the thousands of people reading his strip, people are going to guess where he's going. And while it's not necessarily bad form to change reality on the fly in a game setting, I think everyone would like to see his planned stories come to fruition, rather than his third of fourth choice, because he's worried that people will guess it in advance. And even if he can't differentiate between players and readers, sometimes as a DM, you have to throw your players a bone and reward them for being clever. Sometimes a group of people coming to the same ending for a story, just means that it was the right choice.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 8, 2007 05:08
|
|
|
clockworkjoe posted:Actually, I think in 3.5 that monsters with a CR that is much lower than the PCs level, don't give any EXP. I played with this calculator and even 100 CR 1 hobgoblins wouldn't give XP to a level 13 PC. I just played with some numbers for fun, saying that Belkar is level 13, and killed say, 86 CR one half hobgoblins. He gets no XP, even if I say each hobgoblin is a CR 1 creature. In fact, bumping each up to a CR 4 while making the encounter "unbeatable", still gives him nothing.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2007 21:41
|
|
|
Gyges posted:
Nope, I don't think the spell drains levels, but more likely his strength and maybe constitution. Even if it did drain a level, he'd stil be ECL11-13, until the effects became permanant.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 23, 2007 23:59
|
|
|
tsob posted:Why were Durkon and Haley so upset about Roy's death? Is there some reason they can't just rez him like nothing happened later? I think there was some rather subtle foreshadowing, when roy is fighting Xykon, and comments that they're over the battlefield, and demands that Xykon turn the dragon around. It really didn't seem to make much sense, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Roy is going to raised as undead, preventing ressurection.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 26, 2007 19:32
|
|
|
Funny idea: Xykon is absolutely pummelled by the Sapphire Guard. Pwned. They find Redcloak, identify the phylactery and destroy it. Game's over, and PC's look around in confusion as O-Chul, the martyred saviour of Azure City, is the hero of the tale. Roy doesn't get ressurrected, because well, why? Heaven's pretty nice, why pull him away from that? They devote the rest of the comic to a montage of Elan and Haley rescuing her dad, and wrap it up at strip 500 with Roy looking down, saying something like: "Huh, would you look at that. Guess they don't need me, this really is heaven." Won't happen of course, but I'd laugh. In reality, I think we're going to see Elan grow and mature a bit more, and eventually show that he will be a good leader, so long as he has a few secretaries of common sense. He'll lead by guts and example as opposed to Roy's somewhat cold, tactician style, but it'll happen. Haley doesn't want it, and Durkon and V look doomed by prophecy, sooner or later.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2007 19:21
|
|
|
It's hard to tell is Xykon is worried in that last panel or if it's more of a "Hm. I've been a round a while, and this is the damnedest thing I've seen since Aught Four" sentiment.
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2007 04:02
|
|
|
Jeet posted:Maybe Trad games needs a thread called "Bitch about the application of D&D rules in OOTS" or something because jesus this thread is making me embarrased to be a nerd, chill out a bit guys. There are remarkably few Trad Gamers in this thread, to the best of my knowledge. (Happy Elf doesn't count, he's been persona non grata for a long, long time. Also, I think his reputation proceeds him.)
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2007 08:23
|
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:Maybe you're forgetting True Neutral Tell my wife I said: "Hello."
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2007 08:00
|
|
|
If the hobgoblins rushing Azure City fought like the goblins in Goblins!, there wouldn't even BE a comic for OOTS. Hell, most 1st level D & D parties would get TPK'd too. (Not that I mind, Thac0 and Complains are hilarious little death machines.)
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2007 15:52
|
|
|
No good can come of this for Azure City. Miko's too unbalanced to deal with the idea of the founder of her Order being "undead". She should know that the Lich and Evil Goblin cleric are, you know, evil, but if she thinks that her (former?) order is evil, then she might do something very rash, like try to kill everyone in the room. (Poor O-Chul) She still might be a match for OOTS, since they're missing Roy, and kinda depleted/wounded from the battle. (13+ levels of monk/meatshield) She walked in just in time to see Xykon fighting Soon, and Redcloak turning undead, something evil clerics can't normally do. She has a penchant for jumping to conclusions... O-Chul and a vanquished/defeated Soon can't defend their position... And she's still hell-bent on getting revenge against the OOTS. Yep. This is going to end poorly. P.S. Can we end the Hitler allegory please? It's not a good choice, as it does not compare with the actions of fictional characters in a webcomic. Plus, it's a cheesy way to try to win an argument. "If you don't agree with me, you must support Hitler! Hurr!" Ugh.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2007 23:34
|
|
|
All of the city's Paladins should know about the gate, but how many know about the pseudoghosts that act as the back-up squad? I don't think Miko knows about them. I'm pretty sure only Hinjo, and Shojo knew, which is why Miko's going to flip out. Again.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2007 18:59
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:And I think Miko was pretty justified in what she was doing here. She enters, sees the Ghosts getting their arses kicked by Redcloak, Soon locked in battle with Xykon, and O'Chul paralysed whilst trying to destroy the gate, something she knows is a last-resort better than letting it fall into Xykon's hands. Going 'Oh crap better finish what they're trying to do' is a fairly reasonable decision, if a hasty one. I might have agreed with you until I had a 2nd and 3rd look at the strip. Take a look at Miko. Does she even look like she's looking at what's going on? If she'd looked up, she'd have seen Soon about to finish team Evil off. If she'd been concerned about anything but her great destiny, she wouldn't have smashed the gate. Look at the "treasure type O" look on her face as she does it. She may not be evil, but she is self-absorbed to the point of being dangerous. A sociopath, if you will. Did she make the right call when she entered the throne room? Yes. Did she selfishly zoom in on something that would bring her personal glory? Also yes. Ironically, she purposefully did what she called the OOTS criminals for doing by accident. (As has been pointed out.) Even worse, if she'd just looked up, she could have smashed Xykon's phylactery, and been called a hero for stopping him once and for all. Perhaps even atoned. She's still a tragic character, but in an irredeemable sort of way. I don't even WANT to like her anymore.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 7, 2007 15:14
|
|
|
It was heavily implied that Nale and his father had a falling out, early in the strip when Elan and Nale fight for the first time. The whole reason Nale turns on Elan is because he doesn't take Elan rejecting him well, and says that "nobody rejects him, not Elan, not his father or anyone." I don't believe it says that Nale killed him though. Seeing as how he's dropped two fights to Elan now, it seems unlikely. More so, it seems less likely that Nale wouldn't take control of his father's empire/army in the event that he killed him. Also, it feels really silly to type Elan and Nale over and over. NutShellBill fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 11, 2007 |
|
#
¿
Jun 11, 2007 14:42
|
|
|
I thought it was well done, and a bit sad, in the end. Sure, she didn't change, but the idea of someone so dedicated to a goal, no matter how selfish it is... wow. "Do I get to be a Paladin again." "No, Miko. You didn't really atone at all. Also, your legs are over there. It'd make things kinda tough." I did like that Soon didn't lie to her. Would have been pretty tempting to just tell a little fib to comfort her. As it is, he sugar coats what she actually accomplished. Sometimes I guess things just have to end in a mundane way. Besides it's D & D. If they REALLY want to, they can bring her back.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 12, 2007 08:10
|
|
|
KOraithER posted:Professional webcomic artist. Most of the ones who live off of their comic manage to stick to their schedule. You should read Goblins, it's easy to catch up, he updates about twice per month. Mr Burlew's pretty good at meeting his target deadlines, I think.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2007 05:31
|
|
|
Falconer posted:
On the nose-y.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2007 17:45
|
|
|
Robot Bastard posted:Yes, every dozen strips or so we'll get a panel or two showing her progressively-more-rotten corpse. There's always the afterlife, and it's not as if celestial and undead folks can't come back. Let's say Miko gets to LG heaven, and sees Roy waiting in line with her and flips out. She decides that if this is what heaven is like, then she's not interested, and decides to head back to the prime material as a ghost or something similar. There's a ton of ways for Miko to comeback, if the author feels like it.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 18, 2007 03:38
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:New Erfworld. Actually, I rather got the impression that the fact that the undead warlords weren't much for thinking was going to be the downfall of the attacking force. Parson attacked with the long range dragons only, then brought them back to hide in the trees when they were hurt. Anson's group is fairly certain that if they don't do something now, they'll lose their chance. I'm fairly certain though, that Parson has hidden "B-movement" (aka lower movement) dragons in with his injured, banking on the low intel of his enemy, to lure them into a very big ambush. This is why he wanted to move at night, to cut down on the risk of detection. The fact that the arkenpliers can take down undead is a minimal concern; all of the overlords in the dragon group are expendable, and the arkenhammer ensures that Stanley could order a full withdrawl if he needed to. Anson's welcome to engage dragons head on to get to them as well. Add that to the fact that the attackers have to spend all of their movement to get to the ambush, and Parson is going to slaughter them, and have enough movement to get back within the city for a full heal. The only wild card is whatshername. Jillian? Sounds right. She's an undepenable double agent it seems, and might just pull through in the clutch if cavalry is needed. I've been reading this thing since the start, and I'm hoping that this is, at long last, a sign of life.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2007 09:11
|
|
|
I think I figured out why OotS is such a good comic: Two small details that just that held my interest in this strip alone: 1) Durkon's accent is so thick, that you don't even know what he THINKS V's gender is. "E's" Granted, it's probably "he" in this case, but the detail! 2) Haley has a tattoo. And you know that's going to be important somehow. Or maybe not. The fact I want to know more about it though? That's a good comic.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 21, 2007 06:24
|
|
|
RentACop posted:After finally getting my books I'm having trouble reconciling what happens in Start of Darkness and what happens in the strip itself. Even taking into account the comic started off as a gag-a-day thing that evolved into a story, Xykon is just such a raging bastard in the book to Redcloak while in the strip they seem almost quasi-friends and, well I dunno I'm having trouble articulating why it seems so weird. I have to agree. Without giving spoilers away, I realize why Redcloak still follows him, it's more out of frustration and denial than anything; but they have WAY too many chummy moments, considering what Xykon has done to him. On the other hand, we don't have access to Redcloak's inner monologue... who knows what he's actually thinking at any given moment? Hopefully, something along the lines of brutal revenge. The only explanation I can offer is that Redcloak believes so hard in his cause that he puts on a happy face to appease the boss, but you'd think that in nearly 500 strips, we'd get some indication that there is some dissent between them.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 26, 2007 07:07
|
|
|
Sock posted:I wonder how long Lien has been waiting for an opportunity like that. Probably all her life, but that doesn't mean that the next time I play D & D that I'm not picking Paladin + Shark. OHHHH man.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 2, 2007 06:08
|
|
|
Well, that update certainly jives with my theory of Elan becoming the new team leader. They've got 500 strips or so to strap a headband of intellect on him, and make him respectable now.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 9, 2007 19:52
|
|
|
ZorbaTHut posted:500 strips? Is it known that the series ends at strip 1000? Supposedly, yes, this IS the halfway point, or rather the end of the Azure City chapter will be, and there's only going to be approx. 1000 strips before he moves on to something else. When you think about it, the main characters are all in the level 11-15 range or so... there's only so much story left to tell. They've also destroyed 3 out of 5 gates, albeit one happens in a prequel book, so, we might even be 3/5th of the way there, give or take an epilogue.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 10, 2007 10:57
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Well, destroying all the gates doesn't end the plot, it just leaves them with a rather larger problem. Well, the way I see it going down is something like this: 1) Snarl is released; Kills Xykon and Redcloak as open actions, much to Xykon's surprise. 2) Party says oh noes. 3) Deus ex machina, because they're fighting something killed entire panthenons of gods. Perhaps Banjo?  Whether or not this gets drawn out, I can only see it lasting 20 comics, tops. The bulk of the story is the gates, the travelling to and eventually accidental destroying thereof. I think the next 100 strips are going to be devoted to watching Elan develop as a character and as a leader, and getting everyone used to Roy not being around. And of course we'll get the obligatory, somewhat overdue strip of Roy and Miko passing by in the afterlife, Roy heading up and getting cockblocked at heaven (because of the oath), Miko getting used to neutral land; and their eventual meeting somewhere in between. Could make for interesting stuff. Unless Rich Burlew is a goon and is reading this, in which case, expect the opposite of what I just wrote to happen, 'cuz he's like that.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 10, 2007 18:06
|
|
|
I hear Mike Myers' Scottish accent, myself. (His dad, Fat Bastard, for example.) It probably helps that I don't remember what Papa Smurf sounds like.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2007 05:53
|
|
|
Andartus posted:This is going to sound odd, but Xykon in my head sounds just like Tyler Durden. Something about that spunky, can-do nihilism. Xykon's not a nihilist though, he's all about absolute rule via power. And coffee. If anyone in the series is a nihilist, it's Redcloak. On a more serious matter: Andy Dick as Nale? I can understand that, we're not supposed to like Nale. But Elan? I like Elan. I want to keep liking Elan. Your suggestion would make that impossible. I imagine Elan as having a very heroic, booming voice, but someone also capable of doing charming and naive. I nominate Brendan Fraser until someone thinks of someone better. I have to say, having identical twins that look exactly alike, and yet have completely mirror-opposite voices would be very funny.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2007 20:29
|
|
|
The Order of the Stick: Are all dead. Then someone can draw a stick figure Elan as Shockwave, using rapier calligraphy to etch it into a wall. Or maybe just photoshop the OOTS logo where the Transformers logo wold have been on the original comic cover. Ok, so only hardcore Transformer fans would get it.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2007 14:49
|
|
|
Hedgehog King posted:Wait, Roy's dad died of old age? What the heck was he doing with his life? Just hanging around waiting for his son to become a strong enough mage to take on a lich? Why is he so hard on Roy if HE didn't even try to break the curse? Eugene did try, but only succeeded in half-assing both sides of his life, adventuring and fathering, to the point where he failed at both. But yeah, Roy owes him a good punch in the face.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 21, 2007 03:19
|
|
|
I like how Belkar's chart measures evil in kilonazis. Nice touch.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 28, 2007 14:40
|
|
|
Manyorcas posted:I wonder what event the small spike right before 1184 represents. Well, storyline wise, right before the Azure City new year, Belkar did commit a gruesome murder in Azure City with the intention of antagonizing Miko into a prolongued duel against him in the hopes of causing her to fall from grace. Then again, that might be a different new year. Conversely, if we're looking for something in the middle of the plot thus far, maybe it was when he slaughtered those lame barbarians... I dunno.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 28, 2007 17:32
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 2, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
How bad of a father would you need to be to be ANGRY that your son got into heaven, not only because he was a better person than you, but also DESPITE your jackassery when you were alive? Answer: About as bad as Eugene Greenhilt.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 7, 2007 09:49
|
|