The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

bgaesop posted:

What blackguards are you looking at? 3.5 blackguards kick rear end. What level do you suppose Miko is currently?

She has a Celestial Mount, so at least Level 5 Paladin, plus at least 1 level of Monk. However, she was capable of single-handedly taking down the party, san Durkon. On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the fight was 'on rails', since the weather affected Haley's shooting. Weather rules, although they exist, aren't often used in D&D, except for spells and when the GM wants them to matter.

So, probably a level or 2 higher than party.

EDIT: Actually, since she has Evasion, that means she is at least Monk 2/Paladin 5

Jonked fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jan 30, 2007

# ¿ Jan 30, 2007 00:23

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 18:27

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Calaveron posted:

Based on some evidence (V charging 360 GPs to cast Fireball, considering it costs 30 times the level of the spellcaster, seen here, Durkon being able to use the Control Weather spell and being able to case resurrect a whole lot of times) I'd set the level frame of the party somewhere around 13-14, Miko being more or less around that level, too.

That would follow, since Xylon is a Lich, and Liches tend to be very high level Final Bosses.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2007 01:01

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

bgaesop posted:

Liches only need to be level 11, though, right?

No, the base creature needs to be level 11. Becoming Lich essentially adds 4 levels to them, thanks to the Level Adjustment rules.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2007 01:40

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

tsob posted:

I think I at least, and probably several other people are going to have to agree to disagree with you on that point. Done well, having her turn Blackgaurd or what have you via falsehoods preying on her inherent arrogance and Paladin upbringing and faith would not only be believable, but a good story.

Of course, done badly it would be a disaster as you say, but that's true of anything.

Also, EVERYTHING is a cliche at this point. You could not suggest one possible story, scenario or outcome that isn't a cliche to some degree or other, so I really don't think that's a valid point.

I know! I know!

A Great Old One comes out of the sky, shakes Miko's hand, and she takes the Alienist PrC. That wouldn't be cliche at ALL!

# ¿ Feb 1, 2007 02:20

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Myok posted:

I don't have the books in front of me but the Paladin's horse is summoned for a period of time based on the Paladin's level, so it would probably just go poof, if not immediately then after its time is up. In any case I doubt it'd let her ride it in her non-Paladin status. Were I the DM I'd probably have it give her a solid bite before vanishing.

When Fallen, a Paladin immediately loses access to a Paladin abilities, including their Mount. I'd probably treat it like I'd treat a Mount being killed: all equipment on the mount would be dropped, and the Horse would disappear.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2007 22:13

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

gothfae posted:

If she's higher than 11 we would never be able to tell.

Well, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have 11 levels in Paladin, but due to the nebulous nature of time in comic strips, I doubt we'd be able to tell anyway.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2007 00:02

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Vomax posted:

I agree that Nale would easily be able to manipulate her into joining him against the OotS, but as long as she feels she is still on the side of Good, the Linear Guild would have to be walking on eggshells to keep her placated. Though I guess Miko would be able to pretty easily rationalize almost anything as long as Nale kept her convinced it was part of revenge on the OotS.

Miko can't Detect Evil anymore, and she'd only be able t Detect Good if she became a Blackguard. I could easily see her rationalizing it as "When I looked at someone as a paladin, I could tell whether they were on my side or not. Now I can do that again." Basically she'd rationalize her new abilties as "SEE! I'M NOT CRAZY AFTER ALL!"

# ¿ Feb 3, 2007 22:06

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Wanderer posted:

Well, she's also allowed to fight very intelligently, which helps, and Durkon isn't participating besides as a healer, which also helps. Miko abuses her abilities and feats to make both Belkar and Haley non-factors, V isn't in the fight very long, and Elan's pretty useless. That leaves Roy as the only real participant.

And don't forget the dice just 'happening' to come up with high rolls for Miko and low rolls for the Sticks, thanks to the magic of plot points!

# ¿ Feb 5, 2007 04:24

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

HitTheTargets posted:

On Erfworld: It seems to me he was aiming for subtext that would be present but not intrusive on the story. But he went too heavy and now it's creepy & crappy. To be fair, subtlety is a tricky thing and he only screwed up a bit, but a little goes a long way.

That said, it also totally sucks for a different reason, that being that we have no clue what's going on or why it matters.

Honestly I hope he keeps taking it farther and farther, until the whole thing is a clusterfuck on a Faithmouse level.

But that's probably just me.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2007 04:58

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Elves are innately inferior to humans. It's built into D&D. A first level, just starting out human character can be anywhere from 15 to 30 years old. The Elf, on the other hand, can be anywhere from 100 to 300 years old.

A human can master the arcane arts and become a living embodiment of Boccob in the time it takes a Elf mage to master Magic Missile.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2007 18:03

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Fuego Fish posted:

The fact that default elf starting age exceeds the average human lifespan kinda negates the fact they're mentally slow.

Sure, but if Elves weren't quite literally mentally retarded, even a young elf would well into the Epic levels. That's what people don't seem to realize about elves. If their development was treated with any sort of commonsense, elves would be the ubergods of the D&D setting.

Destroying entire villages with a maximized Fireball, raising all of the villagers again, and then giving them a Major Geas to find the perfect Sheppard's Pie, because the one the inn keeper just gave him was burnt and tasteless.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2007 04:29

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

RentACop posted:

Random DnD second edition question:
Strength: 18/56 , What does that even mean?

In Second Edition, Humans abilities scores were capped at 18. STR 19 meant you were a monster of some kind - Trolls, Gnolls, Ghouls, ect. But, if you were STR 18, got to roll a percentile dice to find how close to STR 19 you were: STR 18/00 meant you were just BARELY weaker than a STR 19 monster. In other words, it means Strength: 18 and a half, which is stronger than 18 and a quarter, but weaker than 18 and three fourths.

DnD 2.0 was pretty silly sometimes.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2007 06:16

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

What I can't stand is that the big block of text is a myth that seems so... bland. I don't mind reading. But I do mind boring, stupid, cliche, "Tell, not show" writing.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2007 02:41

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Chem-Comando posted:

Is this true in the forgotten realms? I remember reading some fluff about the lawful evil demons (or devils, I forget) Convincing damned souls to sign on with them for fear of what their evil gods afterlife would be.

And I vaguely remember hearing something about the followers of Masks afterlife.

IIRC, Forgotten Realms afterlife planes is completely different than the Greyhawk/'Default' afterlife planes. In FF, the Devils induct newly dead LE souls into their armies for the Blood Wars against the Demons. Plus, atheist ended up being used as living building material in some sort of wall against Lovecraftian horrors in FF, but I think in Greyhawk, they just go to the plane of their alignment.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2007 03:13

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

greatn posted:

Ha, tell that to Wizards of the coast please.

EBERRON IS THE ONE TRUE SETTING! :black101:

# ¿ Oct 22, 2007 17:52

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Idran posted:

And for the three other chromatic dragons:

Blue - Lightning
Black - Acid
White - Ice

Did I miss one?

Orange - Explosive Oil
Purple - "Energy"

Dragon Compendium was pretty stupid.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2007 23:37

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Manyorcas posted:

And maybe more if he uses his higher level spell slots. Or can Clerics not do that...? I'm not too well read on spells.

"Sigh, I'm out of lower spell slots. I guess I'll just cast Maximized Extended Create Food and Water

# ¿ Oct 30, 2007 04:06

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

The comic updated!

Wait, nevermind, false alarm.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2007 02:08

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Psion posted:

Because everyone's busy reading the comic that really did just update now.

Goddamn it that was my line :mad:

# ¿ Nov 2, 2007 04:06

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Mortanis posted:

I roll openly. I don't fudge rolls, and it is such more satisfying to know a player has few hitpoints, and that Big Bad Evil Guy is going to smack then. Check their AC, and calmly explain, "If I roll a 16 or higher, you're dead." Everyone watches the rolls then. There is much cheering when the roll comes up in the player's favor, and a lot of mocking when it comes up in mine.

I like suspense. What can I say.

Sure. But you let them see their spot checks?

"You rolled a 1. You DON'T see the Kobold Ambush directly in front of you."

# ¿ Dec 30, 2007 02:40

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Quarex posted:

This post was great. It had never occurred to me that there was any way Stanley was not the evil side, but you make some compelling points. Now, it WAS obvious that Stanley was not as evil as he COULD be, since he did not disband anyone despite their incredible failures. Though I figured between his soft spot for Wanda (she did sleep with him, after all) and his obvious complete loss of interest in his home city, that could explain not disbanding anyone.

I suspect the main city is suppose to be bait - everybody is trying to take the city, and Stanley sets up a new capital elsewhere. Probably then Parson will have a 'winnable' war on his hands, beats the army left behind to take the city, and...

well, who knows?

# ¿ Jan 24, 2008 21:06

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Maldraedior posted:

She doesn't seem too thilled about it, she's mostly in it for the loot and the SNEAK ATTACK and while she does seem to like authority I think she'll be happy to have someone else around to shift blame onto and deal with messes ie Belkar

Plus she's in love with Elan.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2008 06:06

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Vanadium posted:

So why not just planeshift over into the lawful good afterlife?

They don't like her folk 'round those parts.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2008 20:16

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

bgaesop posted:

This is pretty much the complete opposite of true and in fact is how 3e is and one of the major points of 4e is changing that, so basically if you don't know what you're talking about please don't talk

But seriously, check out the D&D 4e thread in Traditional Games, we've been getting a few juicy bits of information about the new version. Your friend was probably confusing 'Exploits' - special things fighters can do, like knock somebody around with their shield - with Spells, special things wizards can do, like knock someone around with Bigby's Overly Friendly Hand.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2008 20:26

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

bgaesop posted:

edit: Oh wait you were probably talking to the guy I quoted, but I'm going to leave this here to show off what an insufferable jackass I am!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Mar 2, 2008 23:35

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Soonmot posted:

How did Belkar kill an un-undead? Is the mark of justice gone?

Outside city walls.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2008 07:52

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

ConfusedUs posted:

NPC's get half hit points every level, including first.

Heroes often get 3/4ths every level and full at first.

O-Chuul could be Miko's player's new character

# ¿ Mar 30, 2008 04:27

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Kahrytes posted:

Yeah, jesus christ, you guys. So fuckin' analytical. He's not lying to a legitimate authority, he's lying to the megalomaniacal, genocidal leader of the worst evil he's ever seen.

Except the Paladin code specifically bans lying in all cases.

Personally I think it's retarded, and I ignore the rule, but the Rules As Written says that lying, even to a megalomaniac and genocidal leader, is dishonorable and would have him stripped of his powers.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2008 21:00

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Kahrytes posted:

Not really. If Captain America, the ideal Paladin, were captured by the Red Skull, and told to tell him where the Allies had their army, he'd spit in his face. If faced with the threat of a bunch of troops getting murdered if he didn't tell him...

I still think Cap would make something up.

What? You're bring up Captain America, as an ideal paladin, when he's from a setting that doesn't have paladins nor concrete entities of Good and Evil, while talking about a setting that does?

Really?

Here's the point you seem to be missing: the rules say Paladins can't lie, or they lose their powers. There is no caveat to that, no exceptions in the rules. Now, you want to say "That's stupid, I'm ignoring that rule", fine. You won't hear much argument from me. But the thing is, Burlew has made a point of following the rules, and it just seems weird that the Paladin Code would be the one that he ignores, especially after Miko.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2008 16:58

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Kahrytes posted:

So... Superman and Captain America don't follow the paladin ideals at all? ESPECIALLY Cap? Truth, justice and righteousness?

Thinking laterally is BAD.

Is Captain America a paladin? Is Captain America's powers divinely gifted? Would Captain America lose his powers if he acted dishonorably? No?

Then why would you bring him up when talking about D&D paladins? That's not thinking laterally, unless laterally means 'bringing up a tangently-related pop culture icon."

# ¿ Apr 8, 2008 22:41

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Here's how I see the Paladin: he's not just fighting evil and doing good, he's fighting evil and doing good as an example that evil doesn't always win.

Think of a hypothetical situation, where the Paladin lives a city under a evil dictatorship. Two innocent citizens are being hunted by the city guard, and ask the Paladin to help them. Moments later, the City Guard show up, asking where the 'criminals' are. A Good person, even Lawful Good, could lie to the guards and send them off on a wild goose chase. An Evil person could tell the truth to the guards where the 'criminals' are - inside his house.

The Paladin, however, does neither of those things. The Paladin puts the two escapees in a good hiding place, puts his sword next to the door, and when the City Guard comes knocking asking about the criminals, the Paladin tells them that they're working for an evil dictatorship, and that, escapees or no escapees, they're not searching his house without a fight.

The Paladin doesn't poison the evil dictator, he overthrows him - to show that Good wins because it's better, not because of trickery. It's the same thing here.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2008 15:23

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Eh, it's not that weird, I don't think. There's nothing that really says an Orc has to be ugly, other than the whole tusk thing, and even then I've had friends date people with some really horrible teeth.

# ¿ May 11, 2008 18:40

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Cabbit posted:

Yeah, no, gently caress you. The high end poo poo can be justified taking that long, but the low level stuff can't justify that much effort. Thanks for being a total cock about me trying to keep an off-topic argument from going on by being diplomatic, though, shitheel.

:shh: He was agreeing with you :shh:

Yeah, I think it's fair criticism to say that a 10-minute (100 combat rounds) to cast a teleport spell means you're not going to be depending on it in an emergency... which leaves using it as a really expensive ferry. Kind of reduces the grandeur of magic.

It would be a little better if the casting time was reduced as you gained levels, I think. Or if casting times varied, along with gold requirements. Is it really that unbalancing to be able to cast Tensor's Floating Disc after a minute of wand-waving?

# ¿ Jun 3, 2008 19:32

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Cabbit posted:

Yeah, no, gently caress you. The high end poo poo can be justified taking that long, but the low level stuff can't justify that much effort. Thanks for being a total cock about me trying to keep an off-topic argument from going on by being diplomatic, though, shitheel.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2008 19:41

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 18:27

Jonked: Feb 15, 2005

Maybe he meant "Yes, indirectly". He killed Roy with the ring, Miko by driving her insane, and while he didn't TECHNICALLY kill the horse, he did indirectly cause it to join the Choir Invisible. That leaves just the Oracle and V to get offed.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2008 01:29

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