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dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

I tried it with Gentoo a while back but it poo poo out because it needed exact and precise access to the system, but how about Linux in VMware? Is there anything keeping me from slapping Ubuntu, Mandriva, Debian etc on a virtual machine? Is it going to work as intended, or is it going to have too many bugs?

Linux works great with vmware as the host and/or vm. I'm not sure what problems you had before, but Linux is solidly the most stable OS for running on top of or underneath a virtualization system.

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kyuss
Nov 6, 2004



dfn_doe posted:

Linux works great with vmware as the host and/or vm. I'm not sure what problems you had before, but Linux is solidly the most stable OS for running on top of or underneath a virtualization system.

I have three different distributions installed currently, and it works like a charm. The only thing that initially bugged me was that the integrated VMware desktop lags quite a bit. Installing tightvncserver on the linux machine and accessing it by TightVNC instead of the VMware interface helped a lot here - same is for Putty for easy, SSH encrypted shell access

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

When life gives you lemons DANCE DANCE DANCE!

Paid in part by CF


dfn_doe posted:

Linux works great with vmware as the host and/or vm. I'm not sure what problems you had before, but Linux is solidly the most stable OS for running on top of or underneath a virtualization system.
I think the problem was that Gentoo (and keep in mind this was back in the day of stage 1 installs) required I believe two reboots during the install, including one with the OS not fully installed yet. VM threw an absolute fit about that one.

Running it in a VM sounds really good though, I can throw a few distros on there and really mess around. I can't believe I never thought of that before. Every other time I've tried Linux it was on my laptop which I hardly ever use and it's all inconvenient. Now I can mess around with it on my main box. Whee!, and such. I'm thinking Gentoo (always a special place in my heart), Ubuntu and... hmm, maybe one or two more.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

When life gives you lemons DANCE DANCE DANCE!

Paid in part by CF


What's the deal with Debian? It's 3DVDs or 20CDs? That seems like a bit much.

dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

I think the problem was that Gentoo (and keep in mind this was back in the day of stage 1 installs) required I believe two reboots during the install, including one with the OS not fully installed yet. VM threw an absolute fit about that one.

I'm confused about what the problem you had was. Installing any linux ontop of vmware should be the same proccess as installing it onto a regular old box... With only exception, that I can think of, being that instead of inserting/removind CD/DVD media you are going to be checking unchecking a box to mount/unmount an iso on the host system's FS. Although I guess oyu can use actual physical media too if you wanted...

thenameseli
Sep 6, 2006


MC Fruit Stripe posted:

What's the deal with Debian? It's 3DVDs or 20CDs? That seems like a bit much.

That is to download every single package in the repository. If you have a halfway decent internet connection you can just install from CD 1 and then download new packages to install as you want them.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

When life gives you lemons DANCE DANCE DANCE!

Paid in part by CF


dfn_doe posted:

I'm confused about what the problem you had was. Installing any linux ontop of vmware should be the same proccess as installing it onto a regular old box.
Should. Isn't. Stage 3 worked fine, but stage 1 got nervous on me because it has to reboot and compile the kernel and all that. I couldn't get past that point.

thenameseli posted:

That is to download every single package in the repository. If you have a halfway decent internet connection you can just install from CD 1 and then download new packages to install as you want them.
Ahh cool, I'll just get CD 1 then and learn how to get packages the hard way.

dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Should. Isn't. Stage 3 worked fine, but stage 1 got nervous on me because it has to reboot and compile the kernel and all that. I couldn't get past that point.

I'm still confused about this. Rebooting, compiling, all the rest of the gentoo-isms don't do anything that would be broken inside a VM.. did you perhaps have the wrong target arch selected or something?

Ferg
May 6, 2007



dfn_doe posted:

I'm still confused about this. Rebooting, compiling, all the rest of the gentoo-isms don't do anything that would be broken inside a VM.. did you perhaps have the wrong target arch selected or something?

I tried a stage one Gentoo install way back when as well and I had the same results. Something about it just didn't stick with VMware.

Alowishus
Jan 8, 2002

My name is Mud

Stage1 installs aren't even supported by the Gentoo team any more. Go with Stage3, that should work fine.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

When life gives you lemons DANCE DANCE DANCE!

Paid in part by CF


Yeah, I wish they were though. There's something so romantic about the whole thing. I know a lot of it was just the placebo effect, but everyone really believed that their gentoo install was so amazingly fast. I'm sure the real gains were microscopic (hence eliminating stage 1 entirely), but drat what a cool idea.

6174
Dec 4, 2004


MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Yeah, I wish they were though. There's something so romantic about the whole thing. I know a lot of it was just the placebo effect, but everyone really believed that their gentoo install was so amazingly fast. I'm sure the real gains were microscopic (hence eliminating stage 1 entirely), but drat what a cool idea.

If you actually do want to build everything from source, there is always Linux from Scratch.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

When life gives you lemons DANCE DANCE DANCE!

Paid in part by CF


6174 posted:

If you actually do want to build everything from source, there is always Linux from Scratch.
I'm sorry, your distro is not named after a fast penguin.

sund
Mar 28, 2005

Location: Parumph, Nevada

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Yeah, I wish they were though. There's something so romantic about the whole thing. I know a lot of it was just the placebo effect, but everyone really believed that their gentoo install was so amazingly fast. I'm sure the real gains were microscopic (hence eliminating stage 1 entirely), but drat what a cool idea.
They stopped supporting them because it was a headache. These days the exact same thing can be accomplished by running 'emerge -e system' on a stage 3 system. The only other purported benefit is being able to set your CHOST value before compiling everything, but it appears that you can change that if you want as long as you follow some instructions: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_change...latively_safely

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


I'm having some trouble debugging a C++ program in GDB:

code:
(gdb) list TimeSeriesDisplay.h:368,372
368     template <class K, class lineage_t>
369     void TimeSeriesDisplay<K, lineage_t>::updateDisplay(double t0, double t1)
370     {
371       restartGnuplotLogFile();
372
(gdb) break TimeSeriesDisplay.h:370
No line 370 in file "Displays/TimeSeriesDisplay.h".
In short, GDB doesn't seem to know about the current files, and seems to believe that the code running is an older version. When I set a line breakpoint, GDB will sometimes think the breakpoint is in a function other than the one on that line number, because the other function used to be located there before I added some code.

This started happening suddenly the other day, but I don't know what I might have changed. The program compiles and runs correctly with the functionality I've added, so the object files must be working correctly. I'm using 'gcc -g', I've recompiled the program and all its needed libraries, etc., and it doesn't help. What's going on?

DeathChill
Feb 28, 2005
I play by my own rules, baby.

I was just curious if it's just me or are Linux developers much more expensive? I'm trying to get a Linux project started and it's simply an application set that actually utilizes existing open source Linux projects. I tried the exact same project for Windows and got quotes around $450; the Linux version had quotes of $6500+ for the EXACT same thing.

teapot
Dec 27, 2003

by Fistgrrl


Twinxor posted:

I'm having some trouble debugging a C++ program in GDB:

code:
(gdb) list TimeSeriesDisplay.h:368,372
368     template <class K, class lineage_t>
369     void TimeSeriesDisplay<K, lineage_t>::updateDisplay(double t0, double t1)
370     {
371       restartGnuplotLogFile();
372
(gdb) break TimeSeriesDisplay.h:370
No line 370 in file "[b]Displays/[/b]TimeSeriesDisplay.h".
In short, GDB doesn't seem to know about the current files, and seems to believe that the code running is an older version. When I set a line breakpoint, GDB will sometimes think the breakpoint is in a function other than the one on that line number, because the other function used to be located there before I added some code.

This started happening suddenly the other day, but I don't know what I might have changed. The program compiles and runs correctly with the functionality I've added, so the object files must be working correctly. I'm using 'gcc -g', I've recompiled the program and all its needed libraries, etc., and it doesn't help. What's going on?

It is looking for file in the directory where the compiler took it from.

teapot
Dec 27, 2003

by Fistgrrl


DeathChill posted:

I was just curious if it's just me or are Linux developers much more expensive? I'm trying to get a Linux project started and it's simply an application set that actually utilizes existing open source Linux projects. I tried the exact same project for Windows and got quotes around $450; the Linux version had quotes of $6500+ for the EXACT same thing.

Where are you getting the quotes and what is the nature of the project? Most programmers on any system won't even start a development project for $450 -- this is a price of something like a php script for a web site.

Ferg
May 6, 2007



DeathChill posted:

I was just curious if it's just me or are Linux developers much more expensive? I'm trying to get a Linux project started and it's simply an application set that actually utilizes existing open source Linux projects. I tried the exact same project for Windows and got quotes around $450; the Linux version had quotes of $6500+ for the EXACT same thing.

A guy from my local LUG was recently complaining about this same issue on our mailing list. Good Linux developers seem to be few, and given that if you're a Linux developer you're a hot commodity to the right customer you can tend to overcharge.

TheWevel
Apr 14, 2002
Send Help; Trapped in Stupid Factory

I can not for the life of me get my new monitor to display its native resolution in Ubuntu. I have edited the xorg.conf file to add the native res, and it always comes back at 1280x1024 at 75hz. The native resolution is 1400x1050 at I assume 60hz. The manual doesn't state what the refresh rate should be. Manually editing the "VertRefresh" line to say "50-60" doesn't do anything... X restarts at 1280x1024 at 75hz.

I went through Xwindows config program, as well as manually changing the xorg.conf.

Here's what I have in my xorg.conf:

code:
Section "Monitor"
	Identifier	"Westinghouse 20.1"
	Option		"DPMS"
	HorizSync	30-65.3
	VertRefresh	50-75
EndSection

Section "Screen"
	Identifier	"Default Screen"
	Device		"Intel GMA950"
	Monitor		"Westinghouse 20.1"
	DefaultDepth	24
	SubSection "Display"
		Depth		1
		Modes		"1400x1050" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
	EndSubSection
	SubSection "Display"
		Depth		4
		Modes		"1400x1050" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
	EndSubSection
	SubSection "Display"
		Depth		8
		Modes		"1400x1050" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
	EndSubSection
	SubSection "Display"
		Depth		15
		Modes		"1400x1050" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
	EndSubSection
	SubSection "Display"
		Depth		16
		Modes		"1400x1050" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
	EndSubSection
	SubSection "Display"
		Depth		24
		Modes		"1400x1050" "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
	EndSubSection
EndSection
You can see that in all of the other screen depths I took out any references to 1280x1024. Once X was restarted it came back at the next lower res so I put 1280x1024 back in to make everything not quite as mega-huge. Any other ideas?

kyuss
Nov 6, 2004



TheWevel posted:

I can not for the life of me get my new monitor to display its native resolution in Ubuntu. I have edited the xorg.conf file to add the native res, and it always comes back at 1280x1024 at 75hz. The native resolution is 1400x1050 at I assume 60hz. The manual doesn't state what the refresh rate should be. Manually editing the "VertRefresh" line to say "50-60" doesn't do anything... X restarts at 1280x1024 at 75hz.

Just one page ago some guy had a very similar problem. Have you checked that out?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


teapot posted:

It is looking for file in the directory where the compiler took it from.

Unfortunately, I think the problem is deeper. That's the only TimeSeriesDisplay.h around, and GDB knows about it - maybe. It CAN set breakpoints in that header file, and in the other files the program is compiled with - but it acts as if those are older versions of the files, somehow? Let me give an example of how it's behaving:

Suppose I have a function threeFifty() at line 350 of Header.h. I start up GDB, and set a breakpoint at Header.h:350, and it works fine.

Now, I add some code near the beginning of Header.h, so that threeFifty() happens to be bumped down to line 400 of the file, and I recompile. Running it indicates that the new code is operational. But now I load it up in GDB, and again type "break Header.h:350", expecting that the breakpoint will be at a different place - but 'info breakpoints' indicates the breakpoint is at threeFifty() still. What the hell? And when I make the longer than the old version, GDB doesn't recognize the new lines - it won't let me set breakpoints beyond the EOF of the old version.

In these cases, the "old version" is apparently the same as the CVS version. Maybe it has something to do with that, but I'm not sure. I can't imagine that GDB would be looking files up elsewhere, though I'm sure I'm overlooking something dumb here.

TheWevel
Apr 14, 2002
Send Help; Trapped in Stupid Factory

kyuss posted:

Just one page ago some guy had a very similar problem. Have you checked that out?

Yes, and it looks like it was an unsolved issue. Also it appears that it's related to the ATI drivers. I'm using my motherboard's built-in Intel GMA950 graphics.

OHIO
Aug 15, 2005

touchin' algebra

I'm running Ubuntu (Feisty) and I can't figure out how to kill the "init" process.

I initially tried "sudo kill 1", but that didn't work.

Then I read in the kill man pages that it sends the signal SIGTERM by default and that processes could catch it. That's no good, maybe "init" is catching it. It then explained that the SIGKILL signal could not be caught.

So I tried "sudo kill -s SIGKILL 1", but that didn't work either.

Is "init" catching SIGKILL? Why won't "init" die?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Seaneseor posted:

I'm running Ubuntu (Feisty) and I can't figure out how to kill the "init" process.

I initially tried "sudo kill 1", but that didn't work.

Then I read in the kill man pages that it sends the signal SIGTERM by default and that processes could catch it. That's no good, maybe "init" is catching it. It then explained that the SIGKILL signal could not be caught.

So I tried "sudo kill -s SIGKILL 1", but that didn't work either.

Is "init" catching SIGKILL? Why won't "init" die?

Yes, init is allowed to ignore kill signals. Given that all processes ultimately derive from init, and killing a process generally kills its children, you can probably guess why that is.

KaeseEs
Feb 23, 2007

by Fragmaster


Seaneseor posted:

I'm running Ubuntu (Feisty) and I can't figure out how to kill the "init" process.

I initially tried "sudo kill 1", but that didn't work.

Then I read in the kill man pages that it sends the signal SIGTERM by default and that processes could catch it. That's no good, maybe "init" is catching it. It then explained that the SIGKILL signal could not be caught.

So I tried "sudo kill -s SIGKILL 1", but that didn't work either.

Is "init" catching SIGKILL? Why won't "init" die?
Why in the world do you want to kill init? If you want to turn off or reboot the computer via the terminal, try 'man shutdown'.

covener
Jan 10, 2004

You know, for kids!

Twinxor posted:

and killing a process generally kills its children, you can probably guess why that is.

Generally that isn't the case, children don't care about their parents dieing -- their ppid is set to 1 (init) and init knows to wait() for them.

OHIO
Aug 15, 2005

touchin' algebra

KaeseEs posted:

Why in the world do you want to kill init? If you want to turn off or reboot the computer via the terminal, try 'man shutdown'.

I was just reading man pages and playing around with commands.

It claims SIGKILL can't be blocked, so I tested out how dangerous this command could be by trying to assassinate the head honcho.

Is there something about how 'kill' works that would logically prevent it from killing 'init'? Not because "it's a bad idea", but because "it's not actually possible"?

Smackbilly
Jan 3, 2001
What kind of a name is Pizza Organ! anyway?

I have some files in a personal subversion repository, and I want to place them in a shared subversion repository - how can I do this while retaining the revision history for these files? I know there will be no conflicts between the files and anything that already exists in the destination repository.

Is there a way to insert my files into the target repository so that if the current revision of the target repository is x, then revision y of the source repository becomes revision x+y of the source repository?

I know I could script this if need be, but I'm hoping that subversion has some kind of built-in facility for this that I haven't been able to find yet.

JoeNotCharles
Mar 3, 2005

Yet beyond each tree there are only more trees.


Seaneseor posted:

I was just reading man pages and playing around with commands.

It claims SIGKILL can't be blocked, so I tested out how dangerous this command could be by trying to assassinate the head honcho.

Is there something about how 'kill' works that would logically prevent it from killing 'init'? Not because "it's a bad idea", but because "it's not actually possible"?

Of the top of my head, the "init" process is always PID 0, by definition, so I bet the kernel just rejects the kill signal when sent to that PID.

teapot
Dec 27, 2003

by Fistgrrl


covener posted:

Generally that isn't the case, children don't care about their parents dieing -- their ppid is set to 1 (init) and init knows to wait() for them.

Actually nothing cares about parent process dying, however process may be killed if its session ends, or if a pipe or socket closes as a result of another process dying. init's role of wait()'ing for orphaned processes is to prevent them from becoming zombies when they exit.

teapot
Dec 27, 2003

by Fistgrrl


JoeNotCharles posted:

Of the top of my head, the "init" process is always PID 0, by definition, so I bet the kernel just rejects the kill signal when sent to that PID.

init's PID is 1, not 0.

Also some systems (including Linux) have in-kernel processes visible in the process table.

teapot
Dec 27, 2003

by Fistgrrl


Seaneseor posted:

I was just reading man pages and playing around with commands.

It claims SIGKILL can't be blocked, so I tested out how dangerous this command could be by trying to assassinate the head honcho.

Is there something about how 'kill' works that would logically prevent it from killing 'init'? Not because "it's a bad idea", but because "it's not actually possible"?
The /bin/kill utility or kill shell command (they are different, even though they implement similar interface) call kill system call that is passed to the kernel just like any other system call. It's up to kernel to decide, what should and what should not be done when it is called, so there is nothing unusual in kernel refusing to do something if developers thought, it's a bad idea.

There isn't anything "standard" the OS is supposed to do when init is killed, and there are some situations in Linux when kernel has to "spontaneously" execute a script that configures devices, what would be problematic without init being available. I guess, it would make sense to perform shutdown when someone with sufficient permissions tried to kill init, but even that usually requires init to do something, so it won't be immediately killed anyway.

Wedge of Lime
Sep 4, 2003

I lack indie hair superpowers.

teapot posted:

Killing init...

One can kill init with a live kernel debugger, other than that I do not think its possible with standard system utilities. From my experience of killing init on a Solaris 9 system, you end up with hundreds of zombie processes. Eventually you run out of free pids (due to zombies) and.. well you're pretty stuffed then.

mirror123
Jan 17, 2006
rice barrel

This might be a pretty specific question, but I've googled around with no results.

Has anyone gotten one of those PSX->USB controllers to work? I have one of those devices that can let you use two playstation controllers at the same time. Ubuntu Feisty gets the device at /dev/input/js0, js1 but doesn't detect any input.

Really just throwing it out there, but hopefully someone has tried setting one of these up.

68k
Feb 13, 2003



mirror123 posted:

This might be a pretty specific question, but I've googled around with no results.

Has anyone gotten one of those PSX->USB controllers to work? I have one of those devices that can let you use two playstation controllers at the same time. Ubuntu Feisty gets the device at /dev/input/js0, js1 but doesn't detect any input.

Really just throwing it out there, but hopefully someone has tried setting one of these up.

This is totally unhelpful, but I got mine to work... sort of. In Edgy, I could get it to detect the controller automatically, but neither the analog sticks or the directional pad would work. When I upgraded to Feisty, everything automatically worked without my changing anything, except some programs will not recognize it, where others recognize everything on the controller perfectly. I remember there being quite a bit of info about this issue on the Ubuntu forums, so maybe there is something there that can help. Also, make sure the programs you use know to look at /dev/input/js0 or 1, and there are a couple calibration programs you can grab through Synaptic that may help.

JoeNotCharles
Mar 3, 2005

Yet beyond each tree there are only more trees.


mirror123 posted:

This might be a pretty specific question, but I've googled around with no results.

Has anyone gotten one of those PSX->USB controllers to work? I have one of those devices that can let you use two playstation controllers at the same time. Ubuntu Feisty gets the device at /dev/input/js0, js1 but doesn't detect any input.

Really just throwing it out there, but hopefully someone has tried setting one of these up.

Mine worked fine (3-in-1 adaptor to let you hook a PSX/PS2 controller to X-box, Gamecube or USB). Actually, I only tested it in snes9x, which was only set to recognize one of the analog sticks anyway, so maybe the other one and the d-pad didn't work and I never noticed.

Pangaea Ultima
Sep 6, 2005



While I like amarok, I find that it tends to not fully download my podcasts, usually cutting off the last five minutes or so for some reason. I've been looking for an alternate podcast fetcher, and I've tried hpodder and gpodder, but for some reason when I transfer podcasts downloaded with those programs, my ipod doesn't remember the track position (ie if I listen to another track, it begins the podcast at the very beginning). When I transfer podcasts downloaded by amarok to the device, track position is remembered, but even if I use amarok to transfer the podcasts downloaded by other clients, the position is not remembered. I see no option for either of these programs that would affect this, and I don't see any way to use amarok to manually set the "remember track position" option like you can in itunes. I've tried googling, reading documentation for these programs but I seem to be unable to find the answer. I assume I'm just not using the right phrase for "track position," but I'm kind of at my wit's end at this point. Any advice would be appreciated.

edit: Also: the podcasts are showing up in the "podcast" option on the ipod, just not remembering track position.

edit2: the magic phrase seems to be "remember playback position," but still no luck

Pangaea Ultima fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2007 around 18:40

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


Here's on that'll likely cause a fight:

I need a linux distro that can host MediaWiki(and the stuff it depends on to run). The catch being is that the distro needs to be as lightweight as possible as I'll be running it in VMWare along with several other Virtual Machines(I'm thinking about ditching X server and all the toys it brings just to cut down on the headroom). Also it has to fit on one CD.

If anyone has done something similar I'd love to hear from you.

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Alowishus
Jan 8, 2002

My name is Mud

coconono posted:

I need a linux distro that can host MediaWiki(and the stuff it depends on to run). The catch being is that the distro needs to be as lightweight as possible as I'll be running it in VMWare along with several other Virtual Machines(I'm thinking about ditching X server and all the toys it brings just to cut down on the headroom). Also it has to fit on one CD.
Debian. One CD to install (any further packages you need come over the network), very basic default install, and has the LAMP stack you need to run MediaWiki. And it's supported by VMware.

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