|
When my uncle moved in with my aunt, he brought with him over 40 beagles. This was nearly 15 years ago. Since then, we have successfully reared between 2 and 17 puppies (the latter distributed between three litters!) every year. None of the beagles are spayed, neutered or Kennel Club registered (we are in the UK). But it's okay - they are a working pack of beagles! All puppies we rear are integrated into our own pack, drafted to neighbouring packs or, very rarely (if they are too small to work, for example), carefully rehomed as pets. And while they might not be registered to the Kennel Club, each litter is registered to the national stud book. Our pack will be celebrating its centenary within the next decade, and we can certainly trace our pedigrees back to its origin. Phew! No back yard breeders here, then. Now, hunting with hounds is a particularly emotive subject within the UK. While I'm usually willing to debate the moral and political issues involved, I'm not sure that Pet Island is the best place for it. Obviously the law has changed recently, and hunting as a sport has changed considerably - and my uncle uses his hounds absolutely within the law. I'm in the rather complicated position of being fundamentally liberal minded and absolutely geared towards animal rights and conservation, but yet having spent every summer since I was 6 years old with these beagles and people who I love so much. I find the concept of hunting down and killing a wild animal pretty hard to stomach, yet I think I've gained a fair amount of insight into the reality of the sport, and the people who participate it. They certainly aren't as demonic as they are widely held to be. With that said, then - the beagles! This is where they live;  The kennels are divided into 6 'lodges'; three for the boys, three for the girls and the kennel kitchen in the middle. The floors are poured concrete and slope down towards a central drain, which makes for easy cleaning. Each lodge has a raised concrete bench, which we bed with newspaper (this is changed every day).  Here is the back corridor;  Every hound responds to his or her own name, and we call them individually back into the lodges after we've cleaned them out. Not only that, but they know to seperate into boys and girls when we return home from a walk! (Well, more like each hound knows whether to go left or right). Did somebody mention walks?  The hounds are walked a couple of miles just about every day during the summer months. While they are kenneled in a rural area, they do walk along roads (albeit quiet ones). This means that each hound must learn road manners, such as bunching into the side of the road when my uncle says 'Car - over!'. A useful tool in this regard is the 'couple' - two leather collars attached to each other by a chain. When puppies start to walk out with the pack, at about a year old, they are 'coupled' to an older, wiser hound. This might sound a bit silly, or even dangerous, but it works perfectly well and is a pretty old technique. Here is an example;  Does Vagrant look at all concerned that he has a horrid puppy tethered to his neck? I don't think so! As I say, the puppies only get integrated with the rest of the pack when they are about a year old. We breed every year, as I have mentioned, and probably average at 8-10 puppies a year. I personally have witnessed the whelping of 6 or 7 litters over the years, and it is a truly magical (if nerve-wracking) experience. Each litter is named with a sequential letter of the alphabet (so Stringer and Spitfire are brothers, and the next litter after them contained Trinket and Tapestry etc). This here is Meadow with the newly born 'Y' litter.  We plan our litters meticulously, and breed for temperament, working ability and type. There is a lot more variety in the appearance of working beagles than the Kennel Club show strains, but nonetheless a standard is maintained through the summer showing circuit.  Pups stay with their mum til she grows tired of them, pretty much. It's very much up to her. While we might aim for for 8-10 pups a year, it is not an exact science.   . That was the year of 17 puppies. I had to look after them for a week while my uncle took the pack to a different county - never again. I was feeding, cleaning and excercising them from dawn til dusk. Once the puppies are around 8 weeks old they spend their days out in our two puppy pens. Pretty much their only job from then on is to chill, play and be cute.         So yes, that is a brief introduction to my little beagly friends. I love them so much. We are expecting a litter within the next couple of days, so fingers crossed! 
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 03:17
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 00:55 |
|
|
Corsair Canard posted:Yeah thats pretty much what I would have said. Well, my uncle and aunt do not have the internet or a television. I think that has quite a lot to do with it! Basically, they live for their hounds. My uncle is up at 6.30 each morning to feed them and clean them out, back home from work at lunchtime to check on them, and works outside either with the hounds or looking after the land/poultry until the sun sets. He gets about 3 weeks holiday from them a year, when I come over to look after them for him - but he always takes at least a couple of pups with him (they have a cottage by the sea). I really don't think there is a moment of the day when he isn't thinking of his hounds. Also, working beagles have been bred for centuries to live together amicably, so they really are tailored to the kennel environment. As with all dogs, routine is the key. That said, it is obviously a lot of work - I'm always very pleased to hand the keys back to my uncle after I've done my yearly stint!
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 03:31
|
|
|
MoCookies posted:Oh dear god - I can't hardly stand the beagleyness of this thread! I'm a huge fan of hounds, and have been really fascinated by the fact there are still packs around used for hunting. I've looked online a bit, and there don't seem to be any near where I live. From your post, I gather that hunting is much more taboo in the UK than it is here in the US. Living in Texas, its pretty common to hear about people going hunting on the weekends. Anyway, what game is hunted with the pack? Do the dogs too old to hunt get retired to the couch? Does your family make their own dog food, or do they have to just buy it in bulk? Do all the beagles curl up and sleep in a massive beagle pile? Yes, hunting has been a pretty controversial topic in the UK over the past few years. An often cited statistic is that over 700 hours were spent debating hunting in parliament, compared to only 7 hours debating the decision to enter Iraq. Emotions run very high on both sides of the debate - my uncle has been threatened with letter bombs, and has had people invade the premises with the intention of stealing the hounds, or beating him up, or something. My grandmother saw them off! One time I remember my uncle had to sleep out in the kennel kitchen for a week due to a specific threat to steal a hound of ours who had won a fairly high profile show. Other packs have faired much worse - see the Wye College. Traditionally, beagles hunted the hare - the Brown hare in mainland Britain, and the Irish hare in Ireland. However, hunting with hounds has now been banned in England, Scotland and Wales, and there is a special protection order on the Irish hare, so now beagles in the UK hunt aniseed trails! I think most US packs hunt the jack rabbit. With our old timers it really depends on a number of factors. Obviously, by adding pups to the pack every year we also have to say goodbye to old friends at the same time. We have successfully rehomed older hounds on a number of occasions, and I can think of 8 or 9 of our former hounds who are probably curled up on a couch right at this moment! However, we've also had quite a few real catastrophies. Harlequin, who was an old favourite of mine, was rehomed to a family who seemed perfect - he wouldn't be left for more than four hours, they had a well fenced garden and time to give him plenty of walks. However, I think the mum of the house got a new job, and Harlequin ended up tethered in the back garden of the grandmother. Being a beagle, he got bored very quickly; chewed threw his rope, scaled the fence and went off exploring. He ended up geting hit by a train  .The trouble is that once hounds have lived 9 or 10 years in kennels, they mostly find the transition to home life pretty difficult. They are noisy, messy, have short attention spans and would be very inclined to roam. You need an awful lot of patience to rehome an ex-hunting hound. After what happened with Harlequin, and a couple of other bad experiences, my uncle has decided that he won't rehome to strangers any more. We also work on the basis that it would be cruel to keep hounds at our own home where they would hear all the others heading off hunting every Saturday and not be able to join in. They hate getting left behind under normal circumstances (if they are injured or on heat, etc), and it would be just cruel if they had to miss out week after week. So, when it gets to the stage that they don't enjoy going out any more, I'm afraid more often than not it's a phone call to the vet . Just recently we had to say goodbye to Justice, Merlin and Lapwing - each of these guys I've known from puppyhood, and it's so hard. .Dog food! We make our own. We get free boxes of crusts from a local sandwich shop, which we soak and mush up into a sort of gruel. In addition we add a few shovels of 'meal' (complete racing greyhound kibble) and offcuts from the local butcher at £5 per week for three large bags. Often these 'offcuts' include cow tongues, livers and hearts  . Plus any household scraps. These get mushed up into six buckets and are left overnight to 'set' - then fed in the morning in troughs. When we have pregnant bitches they get fed extra eggs and milk and so on, and while the pups are getting weaned they get fed bread and meal soaked in warm milk (powdered that you get for orphaned lambs). It works out fairly cheap, all things considered.And oh goodness, yes they all curl up together at the end of the day . When I was little if I hadn't been seen for a couple of hours they always knew to look for me in the puppy house, where I would be fast asleep with them all in a big pile. I may have been known to fall asleep in a hound pile rather more recently, when we had them in a display pen at a show. It was sunny!Also: 
larasndar fucked around with this message at 05:20 on May 24, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 05:16
|
|
|
Hadra posted:
Those pictures are a bit deceptive; each lodge has an outside run as well as an inside bit:  The doors are open all day, so the place doesn't heat up too much. One thing we have to watch for in the summer is the water buckets getting too low. They are shut inside at night, so if it's really hot we might leave the top of the doors open, but apart from that the place ventilates itself for the most part SelmaDVangel posted:Very cool. I do notice that the British Beagles tend to be noticably bigger than our American Beagles. Or is that more of the hunting vs show thing? Anyway, cool doggies, I can almost hear the "arroooo arrroooo!" he he. In Britain, show beagles would tend to be much heavier set than working beagles, who are taller and leaner for the most part. We have the same upper height limit - 16 inches - and it used to be that working hounds would be booted out of the stud book if they were found to be overheight at a show. However, most packs would hold onto and even breed from an overheight hound if they were good workers, where as I'd imagine show breeders would not. Different packs breed for different characteristics according to the type of country they hunt over - we tend towards larger hounds as they actually hunt slower than smaller ones. Our country is pretty much all small boggy fields and thick hedges, and if the pack hunted too fast my uncle would be left behind in no time! Harriers hunt the same quarry and much the same country as beagle packs, but it's often a very different set up to beagling. Often the hunt is mounted, as opposed to beagling which is on foot. My uncle is terrified of horses . Also, in the UK harrier packs tend to be split between the followers, so maybe 10 individuals will house three hounds each, and get together at the weekend, rather than the kennel set up that we use. It's just a different way of doing things, really. My uncle grew up with this pack of beagles, and I don't know that he's ever been actively involved with a harrier pack - I'll have to ask!
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 05:50
|
|
|
Moraine Sedai posted:I have a question if you don't mind... How do you handle the breeding? Is there enough diversity in bloodlines in your own pack that you breed your own males with your own females or do you breed with another person's studs who has a different pack? Really it's a bit of both - here's an example;  This is as close as we would ever breed - you can see that 'Flicka' appears twice among the great grandparents. Where the names have initials in front of them, that means that they were from another pack. So we maintain diversity within our pack by using outside sources fairly regularly - it's worth noting that there are no stud fees within the world of beagling, nor do we ever exchange money when we pass hounds on. Here are a couple of photographs of another activity we do with our beagles during the summer - show displays! Pretty much, we bring a van load of beagles  Set up a pen, and let kids come in and play with the hounds at 50p a go  Beagles are insanely tolerant, and we have never had an issue with growling or whatever. The kids get to stay in for as long as they want, and get a rubber or pencil and fact sheet when they leave . It is a lovely way to spend a day.      
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 15:32
|
|
|
BOrangeFury posted:A petting zoo, only it's just beagles?! BEST IDEA EVER. It is certainly a lot of fun - although pretty tiring! I think what this thread needs is some more puppies. The white pups you saw earlier are the 'A' litter - their mum is Orchid  She is a sweetie pie. She is also a pretty rare, old hound colour called 'badger pied'. Orchid is the daughter of Inca, who is a truely special beagle. Inca is so wise, calm and loving - she is now coming up 11 years old and the oldest hound in kennels, yet still full of energy and life. Here is Inca with my good friend Aly (who looks a lot like Kirsten Dunst)  So the A puppies then - Admiral, Anchor, Aztec (like Inca, see?), Ambush, Antrim, Alder and Acrobat. Here they are out on a walk;   The scruffy looking dog there is Anna, a Glen of Imaal terrier. She is a sweetheart, and loves to play with the puppies.       
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 19:55
|
|
|
Moraine Sedai posted:Are you able to get video of them actually being worked/trained? If so, I would just *die* if you could provide some for us to watch. Your wish is my command!  "OH BOY A WALK! YAAAAY!"  Chillin' after a long, hard day of showing.  The 'A' puppies (now a little older) doing what they do best (that is, being cute). I do have a couple more clips of showing and so on, but I'll save those for later. Unfortunately I am at pesky university at the moment, so I can't record any new material right now . Sorry for the pixelatedness also; that is Photobucket's doing.
larasndar fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 24, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 21:09
|
|
|
MoCookies posted:What's the rationale behind the size of the pack? Is 40 a magic number, or does it have to do more with the facilities to house them? Obviously, you could be producing massive amount of puppies if you wanted to, but it sounds like the size of the pack is somewhat static. Really it has to do with the way the pack hunts. Beagles (traditionally) follow the scent trail of the hare, who might be fields away from them as they pursue her. It takes a real variety of scenting abilities and levels of intelligence, experience and speed/stamina to follow the line/lines over miles of varied terrain in the course of an afternoon's sport. Working with a pack of around 30 hounds (assuming that 10 are back home either as puppies or in season, etc) is enough that you get the necessary range of skill but are still able to exercise control over the pack. My uncle needs to be able to call the hounds back if they catch the scent of a deer, or stray into private property, or end up near to a road or railway line. He also needs to be able to quickly scan them to make sure they're 'all on' (he isn't missing any). '15 couple' (beagling-speak for '30') is therefore a good number to aim for - any bigger and the pack would be liable to split up and harder to control, any less and they wouldn't be able to work together quite so effectively. Professional packs who employ staff to look after the kennels might keep double the number that we do, and hunt more days a week (taking half of the pack out each time). We have had over 50 hounds in kennels before, but any more than 8 hounds in a lodge is really pushing it a bit, and you would be more liable to see fights breaking out during the day time. Also, producing more puppies would be a bit of a false economy - hounds tend to be a bit of a nuisance in their first couple of seasons hunting, and in the first few weeks my uncle will only take three or four of the new guys out with him at a time. Young hounds are more an investment in the future of the pack, really - while instinct is important, it's experience that really counts out in the field. Hope that makes some sense.
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 22:11
|
|
|
 Breaking News! The phone JUST rang and Twilight (mum to be!) is 'spotting'. Puppies are on the way! If everything goes according to plan, in less than 12 hours time the 'B' litter will be with us. Fingers crossed! 
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 22:18
|
|
|
I will do my best! For now, though, a bit about the family. This is Twilight, mum to be. She appears to be a bit shy about getting her photograph taken, as this is the only one I could find of her. What you can't see in this picture are her beautiful kohl eyes . She is a very shy hound in general - sulky, some might say, but they'd be wrong. She is very sweet and loving so long as you sit calmly and quietly with her. You can just about see that she has freckles on her front paws - those are passed down from her grandpa Wisdom, who was a black/blue roan colour.Twilight is the daughter of Icon and Meadow.  This is Icon. Icon was an remarkable hound, and one of our most successful in the show ring. He had very pale lemon patches as a young hound, but these quickly faded to ghost white. He was a real old-style, heavy set beagle, and had beautiful ear and stern (tail) carriage. He was effortlessly respected by the other hounds - he didn't have to throw his weight around, they just knew not to mess with him. He was always very independent, and grew pretty senile in his dotage - he seemed to be in a world of his own a lot of the time. Sometimes he would snap back to his old self, especially in the show ring - he would start showing off and prancing round like he owned the place. Other times he would just stand there with a glazed expression, not really fussed. Even though he was never particularly friendly, I had a real soft spot for the old guy.  This is Meadow, looking distinctly unimpressed at having a bucket on her head! This was when she was suffering from a haemotoma. Meadow was a very naughty puppy, along with her brother Merlin, but she soon settled down. She's a real sweety pie - quite shy, like her daughter, til she gets to know you. She can also be very silly . She has had two litters of her own, but this will be the first time she'll be a granny . Dad-to-be is Smuggler;  That's Smuggler's head in the foreground (the beagle behind him is Vagabond). Smuggler is lemon and white with some pretty unusual markings - he has white tips to his ears and a triangle of three little lemon dots on his white markings, with an equivalent triangle of three little white dots on his lemon markings (sort of hard to explain!). He is very chilled and laid back - he's one of the hounds we put in first with the puppies once they're old enough to live properly in the kennels. Conformation wise he's not perfect - he's leggy, and spindly, and his head's a bit rubbish. But he's got a lovely character, and he makes a great contribution to the pack .Smuggler's parents were Harmony and Envoy. I don't have pictures, unfortunately, but Harmony was a real scatterbrain tricolour hound, with one white ear and lots of freckles. She was very happy, but just a little bit  . Envoy was a lemon and white beagle who took life altogether more seriously.
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2007 23:47
|
|
|
Pupdate Three tricolour puppies so far! A bitch, a dog, and another bitch so my Aunt reports. They've all been breech and it's been a bit of an effort, but Twilight is being a 'perfect mother' and looking after them beautifully . Hang in there Twilight! FrenchyPoo Fagnasty posted:Besides Anna, are there other dogs around besides the beagles? Is Anna strictly a pet or does she have a 'job' also? Anna is the only house dog at the moment; her only job is to see rodents off the premises (she takes this *very* seriously) and otherwise just be a very good girl (she is good at this). We used to have a big old sappy black lab named Florrie, but she died last year at 16 years of age . Prior to those two my Aunt and Uncle had another Glen of Imaal (Duster), and before Duster there was a white Italian Spinone (Polo) and a little scrappy terrier (Bramble). Bramble in particular saw the pack of beagles like a big litter of unruly puppies that she had to keep in line, it was amazing to see .Glad everybody is enjoying the thread! I'll check back in later, hopefully with some more good news on the puppy front
|
|
#
¿
May 25, 2007 07:37
|
|
|
Pupdate Three more puppies you guys! Another tricolour bitch, a lemon and white bitch and a lemon and white dog.  . From the sound of it, rather than having a solid black 'saddle' like their mum, the tricolour pups have smaller black patches - they may end up looking a bit like Quibble and their aunty Speedwell right here; I am so sorry that I don't have any pictures right now of Mum and brood, but here are a couple more shots of Granny Meadow and the newly born 'Y' litter (this was back in 2004);     
larasndar fucked around with this message at 16:45 on May 25, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 25, 2007 16:38
|
|
|
Some sad news, I'm afraid - Twilight had one more puppy, but it was stillborn . Stillbirths are not uncommon during whelpings, unfortunately. Beagles are pretty easy whelpers (one of the many reasons that they are popular in laboratory environments) but even so we would expect to see a stillbirth maybe one in every three litters. There really isn't much you can do to prevent it, but it's always sad . However, the other 6 pups are snuggled up and warm, Twilight is doing a great job and has plenty of milk and Smuggler has been told that he's a daddy . My aunt says that 6 puppies is plenty for this year (we had 13 altogether last year, although two were drafted to another pack), so this will be the only litter. However, Smuggler's brother Spitfire was used to cover a bitch belonging to a neighbouring pack, so it will be fun to see how they turn out, also!FrenchyPoo Fagnasty posted:It's interesting that your aunt and uncle have 'pet' dogs as well as the pack. My parents did the same thing when they were breeding labs. We had the breeders and then at least one 'pet'. Yup, there is a big distinction between the hounds and the pet dogs. One of the major dividers in my uncle's set up is that the hounds would only ever come into the house if they were very sick indeed. For example, this is from an email my aunt sent me a few weeks ago; Unfortunately little Justice has died. David (one of the G___ vets) had been up on Friday to put down old Lapwing & Merlin. He examined Justice and said she was not in pain so we decided to leave it for a few days and see if we could get her to eat. She just got weaker and weaker and the end came quite quickly without her ever really suffering. When we got home on Saturday evening JS let her out to wander around and she came in to the house, where I gave her some milk. She lapped it up fairly eagerly, but about 10 mins later threw it back up. She then went in to a rapid decline, staggering when she tried to walk. We made up a comfy bed with an old bed-spread in a big cardboard box and lay her down in it, and she died during the night, without ever moving. I think it must have been some kind of cancer. So, in a way the house represents a sort of symbolic threshold between 'pet' and 'hound' (sorry, I'm studying anthropology at uni  ).A couple of you have mentioned the lemon colouring - our pack used to be nearly all lemon and white; it's only in recent years that we've introduced more tricolour lines. Tricolour is a lot showier than lemon and white, which is why it predominates among Kennel Club pedigrees - but it doesn't show up half so well against ploughed fields or grassy hillsides! Lemon hounds fairly gleam as they run across the landscape, which is very useful if you are following them from a field or two away. At the end of the day, though, no good hound is a bad colour .
larasndar fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 25, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 25, 2007 20:15
|
|
|
SelmaDVangel posted:About the Glen, the only thing I noticed was that it was very fat--he needs to follow the lead of those Beagles and get moving, he he. She's really not. Firstly, she's 12 years old; secondly, she is fairly big all round as far as Glens go - she's leggy, long in the back and broad generally. This is why she is a neutered pet . She gets the same exercise as the beagles in the evenings, and regularly takes excursions into the Mourne Mountains. She's fine, especially for an old lady    Such a good girl SolanaSkyes posted:Anyway, OP, do you actually work your terriers at all? I know terriers worked with hound packs on fox hunts, but do they with beagles too? Beagle packs don't use terriers, no - mostly because hares don't go to earth! Hares live totally in the open, crouching into 'forms' to sleep. Even when they give birth, they disperse the leverets over a wide area and go visit them in succession to suckle them at night. Terriers are used within the foxhound packs to dig out and flush foxes from their earths, and need to be small and nippy - a Glen would be a very bad choice! A Cairn might have more luck..  (I thought my own little dog, Meg, should get a mention .)Speaking of foxhounds, here's some shots of our local pack from last year's national hound show.    Beautiful
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2007 03:30
|
|
|
SolanaSkyes posted:The Glen folks here in the USA are backing a new event they call Strong Dog, which is supposed to simulate the job that Glens and some of the other bigger terriers did wrestling badgers and larger prey out of dens. As a breeder/exhibitor of Skyes, I find the idea of Strong Dog events quite interesting, but it will require strong interest and an actual proven historic background before the AKC will recognize it. Ooh, that is fascinating - obviously badger baiting has been banned for many years in the Glens' native Ireland, so it would be fascinating to see how well the basic instinct has been preserved. Certainly Anna's prey drive is very high - she is on a perpeptual crusade against the rats who inhabit our log pile, but unfortunately they are just too small and quick for her - most of the time . Speaking of achondroplasic breeds, I had a wonderful morning out with a working basset pack last season - they are so different to their show-bred counterparts! Members of the local show Basset group came out to join the field, and it was amazing to compare them to their working cousins. I didn't think to take photographs, but here is an example of a similar working pack.
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2007 03:58
|
|
|
FrenchyPoo Fagnasty posted:Wow, the working bassets look so different than the pet/show bassets I've seen. How do they compare to the beagles as far as type of prey, tracking and speed? Type of prey is the same - we're still on the hare (or aniseed trail, since the ban). The bassets seemed to be incredibly fast and focused on the scent, compared to the beagles. Their 'cry' was deep and beautiful - pack hounds vocalise while they are working - not quite 'AROOOO', but a sort of clattering chorus of yelps. Hard to explain . You may know that bassets are bred so low and with such pendulous ears/jowls that they sort of 'swoosh' up the scent as they run with their noses down - this happens with beagles too, but to a lesser extent. Definitely I think beagles could be called off a particular line more swiftly than the bassets I saw working that day.FrenchyPoo Fagnasty posted:Also your cairn is delightful! Does she ever get to visit the herd? How is the herd with outsider dogs? Thankyou! . She met the pack once, when she was about six months old, but found the experience a little perplexing! The beagles are pretty laid back about most things, including other dogs; the trouble is more that strange dogs might get overwhelmed and threatened by the sight of so many beagles and become aggressive themselves. Happily, the route we walk the hounds is very peaceful and we've never had any issues with encountering dog walkers or anything like that. The neighbours dogs have all got used to the sight of the hounds walking past - apart from my cousin Colin's farm collie who always comes out and tries to herd them .Hammer Floyd posted:Not to threadshit, but is it possible for you to post less B&W pictures and more colour ones? Your Beagles are gorgeous and I've never seen any gold\white ones before. But my camera focuses better in black and white, and lets me store more images . If you insist, though.. Congregating prior to a WALK, OH BOY!  I swear there are some beagles somewhere  That's better  What is this?  It doesn't smell like a hare      A costume change   Dressing up for a show display  Pineapple posted:I love this thread, your beagles remind me of my Stanley. His build was more like theirs than the show type beagle, although he was a tricolor. Unfortunately we rescued him from a pretty bad "working" breeder who kept him in a rabbit hutch so small he could barely turn around. Aww, he sounds like an excellent dog . That is so great that you managed to rescue him from such a horrible start in life and give him exactly what beagles need out of life - a nice wood with lots of interesting smells to investigate, and a good friend . Maybe I'm a little biased, but it seems to me that beagles in particular have such unrelenting faith in us as humans that it is the ultimate betrayal to take advantage of that as readily as people do. I guess I'm thinking primarily of research labs .
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2007 08:49
|
|
|
Oops! Sorry, when I wrote that I was pretty tired and knew at the time I should be justifying myself, but was also - well - tired. No, I am not against animal research. In fact, did you ever hear on the news about the 'Pro-Test' organisation organised by Oxford University students to counteract the protests about a hypothetical primate research lab? That was a close relative, and I fully support her. I am well, well aware that animal research is a necessary aspect of modern life. I've worked with primates personally, and have a six week placement coming up working with captive (zoo) chimpanzees to study their social behaviour, with a view to improving their welfare. Yet I understand their role in making up less than 1% of all animals researched upon in the UK. I've even contemplated working in the future to ensure primate welfare and enrichment is maximised in lab situations as much as possible. So I'm not against animal research, but I am pretty big on animal welfare. What I was thinking about specifically, and what I really should have clarified, was the Huntingdon Life Sciences footage that was released a number of years ago now. Huntingdon Life Sciences is actually an institute about 20 minutes away from where I am now, which houses over 1000 beagles. In maybe 1995, an undercover investigator for the BBC disclosed footage of researchers losing patience with and beating on the beagles, because they couldn't find a vein or similar. That is what I was talking about in terms of betrayal (and what I really should have specified!). Beagles, for the most part, would never bite back. It's just not fair. However, Huntingdon admitted they had a problem, had a major staff revamp, and as far as I'm aware are up to scratch, now. That is all I was talking about. A very specific example of researchers venting their frustrations out on poor beagles, who never did anything but trust them and be good . Of course, it came out all wrong and I apologise for any offence caused. What I should have said was 'I suppose I am thinking of that Huntingdon Life footage that came out some years back '.Sorry! Am I forgiven? Can I get back to posting pictures of beagles? Edit: doing a little swift wikipedia based research, it turns out that 'SHAC' is the Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty group. I guess perhaps I am a SHAC freak? Certainly, as a 10 year old I was appalled by the footage, and thought and think that the cruelty should have been stopped. I also think that, should cruelty ever arise again, it should be stopped. But there's a difference between cruelty and a professional attitude to research. I'm not against a professional attitude to research. I don't know guys. Hope I'm not stepping on any more toes
larasndar fucked around with this message at 17:08 on May 26, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 26, 2007 16:53
|
|
|
unprofessional posted:Do this. Okay  Just to drag on the derail a little further though, I find it quite interesting that back there I managed to (albeit it sleepily) exhibit the same sort of blanket prejudice and leaping-to-assumptions that I encounter so frequently regarding my uncle's hobby/lifestyle. I think I need to emphasise that hunting quarry with hounds as an activity is actively despised by many people within the UK, and has been illegal for coming up three years now. The future of packs like this is really, really questionable. Nobody's asked me yet about how the beagles are financed, but the answer is that their upkeep is totally funded by our hunt club. People pay a subscription (and often make further donations and take part in fundraising events etc) and in return they get to come out into the countryside and watch the beagles work every saturday throughout the autumn and winter. If we lose hunt supporters, we ultimately lose the beagles (and the same goes for foxhounds, staghounds, minkhounds etc). In Scotland already, entire packs have had to be put to sleep because people simply aren't as interested in seeing hounds work artificial trails as they are live quarry. Heartbreaking .Anyhow, most people I've come into contact with outside of the beagling world don't really know how they feel about hunting, but sort of instinctively think it's wrong. 'Toffs on horseback poncing about the countryside ripping up defenceless animals? Nah, should be banned'. I used to get pretty upset by encountering this attitude all the time, but then I realised that it was a waste of energy. If somebody hasn't actively participated in something, then all they have to go on is hearsay and what is presented to them by the media. The hunting community has been grossly misrepresented by the media - as, I'm sure, has the use of canines in research labs - simply because the reality doesn't make for a good story. Rather than getting upset about people's attitudes, pretty much all I try to do now is give them a more balanced and informed perspective on the issue, if they want to hear it. If they've heard the facts and still disapprove, well, that's their perogative and at least I tried. Here is an example of the attitude I'm talking about 
larasndar fucked around with this message at 18:27 on May 26, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 26, 2007 18:23
|
|
|
Silkenray posted:God, that guy in the video was really really crap at arguing his case. "Fox hunters are scum. Fox hunters are upper class. Upper class people are scum. Scum, scum, scum, scum, scum." Well, exactly. Most anti-hunt protesters have a bit more substance to their argument, though - and equally, a lot of hunt supporters do themselves no favours by dismissing anybody who disagrees with them as 'tree hugging hippies'. Here is a protest song written by a singer whose music I enjoy, and this upset me far more than hearing the unreasoned opinions presented in the first video. It frustrates me so much, because the socio-political issues raised (class divides, foot and mouth, loss of rural community, etc) are very real, but attributing blame to hunting community is really missing the point, as far as I can see. The whole thing's just riddled with inaccuracies, the biggest of which being the idea that hunting is the sole pursuit of the upper classes/landed gentry, and therefore an attack on hunting is an attack on pompous, wealthy landowners. So, so wrong. And, oh, the miners' strike? Plenty of packs have been historically associated with mining communities, thanks  . But this is the public perception, and this is what the hunting community is going to have to overcome if they want their lifestyle to have any future.Sorry, sidetracked; anyhow, here is a video of the 'A' and 'Z' litter out for a walk. 
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2007 23:16
|
|
|
SolanaSkyes posted:SHAC stuff Ohh - from skim reading the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article, I thought they were a peaceful protest group! I am sympathetic towards people who have animal rights concerns, and those who exercise their right to peaceful protest, but like any sane person I am perplexed and more than a little terrified by militant and violent 'campaigners'. That's the same 'organisation' which has been linked with the desecration of a guinea-pig breeder's grave, right? Jesus. Here's a couple of characters from the kennels.  Nugget. Nugget is now the eldest male hound in kennels since we lost Merlin recently. His mother was Willow, from the first litter to be born when the hounds moved here. She was a biscuity shade of lemon and white, and she had one white speckled ear which has been passed down to a number of her offspring. If I had to pick my five all time favourite beagles, Willow would definitely be up there. She was very perceptive - that sort of dog where you really feel there's a strong mutual understanding at work, if that makes any sense. Nugget doesn't really resemble his mum at all - nor his dad, Transit, nor the rest of his littermates (Noble, Nettle, Nutmeg and Nimble). Where they were all quite leggy and elegant, Nugget is short, sturdy and slightly bow legged - a bit of a basset throwback . He has enormous ears, as you can see, and very expressive eyes.Nugget is also the cheekiest hound in the world. He's always had his eye on top dog position - in his youth he'd tend to push the boundaries with my uncle, although he has mellowed a lot with age. You remember how I said Icon had effortless respect from the rest of the pack? Nugget is the opposite; he tries very hard to throw his weight around, but none of the other hounds really buy it. Dominance conflicts rarely arise within the pack, parly because we carefully manage who is housed with who, and partly because my uncle is so firmly established as pack leader. A small number of younger hounds (particularly younger male hounds) take a while to get used to the hierarchy, however. This could include causing confrontations among the rest of the beagles, or trying to outwit the human members of the pack. The former rarely gets anywhere, as the older beagles are well used to little upstarts getting too big for their boots and pay no attention to them .One of the common tactics of a young beagle with delusions of grandeur is to refuse to come in from the paddock after they've been let out for a legs stretch while we clean the lodges out. Usually the routine is that as soon as they hear the outside doors rattle, the pack will come charging over to the kennels and come inside. So Nugget, in his day (and a couple of others since) would decide 'Hey, I'm not coming in! I'm going to stay outside all by myself and there's nothing you can do about it; JUST YOU WATCH'. This is absolutely an attention seeking tactic. What they want more than anything is for you to come out and chase after them in a futile attempt to catch them. Coupling the unruly hound to another would be one solution, but not ideal - it's unwise to leave two hounds coupled unsupervised, and besides you want for the hound to make the choice to come inside, rather than be dragged. The method that tends to work best for me at least is just to absolutely ignore the hound, and get on with your business. I don't even look at the hound out of the corner of my eye, I just get on with wheeling out muck/making up food etc. I've even been known to take the puppies for a long walk, leaving the hound still in the paddock (it's totally enclosed and safe). Typically the hound will go through the following stages; 1) 'Look at me! I am outside and having SO MUCH FUN! *runs around crazily*. I win! Stupid humans! *looks over to see if you have noticed yet*' 2) 'Well, I'm still having fun, I guess. Look, I'm going to lay down right here and chew on this branch to prove it. Although, you know, it is a bit lonely out here. But I'm still having fun!' 3) 'Have they forgotten about me? Where are they? I'm only a little puppy! What will happen when it gets dark? '4) 'THERE YOU ARE!! The humans have come to rescue me, oh hooray, how could you leave me out there all alone I'll be so good next time, I promise *runs inside kennel to join buddies*'Obviously you don't reprimand the beagle when he comes in (I don't make a fuss either, just calmly let them back into their lodge). The idea is that they've made their own decision to stay out, which has led to them feeling insecure, and then made their own decision to finally come back in, which has made them feel relieved and safe again. It takes a couple of goes at it, but eventually they end up making the decision to come back in with the rest of the pack all by themselves. I remember when I was younger, a friend of my uncle's was looking after the hounds for him in the summer, and spent about 20 minutes chasing one of them (probably Nugget, actually!) all around, ended getting very flustered and when the hound was finally caught, obviously what he was thinking was 'Well that was fun! Stupid human! Sucks that I have to go back to the kennel now, but there's always next time!' We've never bred from Nugget, although he has plenty of nieces and nephews - but none that quite have his quirky looks or temperement . He's one of a kind, pretty much, and I do love him to bits - even if he can be naughty!
larasndar fucked around with this message at 01:22 on May 27, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 27, 2007 01:20
|
|
|
 Who on earth is this?  Everyone, meet Verdict. To put it nicely, Verdict saw life from a slightly different perspective to all of the other beagles. But, let's face it - mostly he was just wonky Verdict was born to Nettle, sister of Nugget. She had great difficulty delivering him, to the extent that my uncle actually thought that he was dead and stuck. This is a very dangerous situation for the puppies remaining in utero, as they could start potentially suffocate by starting to breathe while still in the amniotic sac, so my uncle made the decision to gently ease two fingers between the pup's head and pull him firmly out as Nettle strained. To our amazement, the puppy was still alive - but it looked as though he was either having great difficulty breathing or his jaw was dislocated - his mouth was just hanging open . I was pretty sure he wasn't going to make it, since I didn't think he'd be able to form a vacuum latch to suckle properly, but we decided it wouldn't hurt to give him a chance. He was quickly named Verdict - as in, 'What's the..' .Surprisingly, though, Verdict managed to suckle quite happily, and his jaw soon strengthened up. However, it was quickly evident that his jaw hadn't been dislocated at all; rather, he lacked muscle control generally. He leaned. Take a look at him as a wonky puppy;  As he grew, it became clear that he wasn't just wonky, but also a little . He would bark a lot in kennels - not at anything in particular; just enjoying the sound of his own voice. Often he would walk round and round in circles, or if he gort really excited he would hop up on his hind legs and sort of bounce his weight so that he was standing upright (where the other hounds would just jump up against the railings). Also, he liked to chew idly on the tails and ears of the other beagles. Here is an example; You can just about see that he is chomping down on another hound's tail .Nonetheless, he was a real trier and really built up his muscle tone - he was strapping, but still wonky. And he was a real sweetheart, both because of and in spite of his flaws. We kept him on for a season, but unfortunately it really didn't work out - he would get stuck behind fences and just stand there barking, waiting for somebody to come rescue him. So we found him what seemed an ideal home - a local gamekeeper with a young girl to play with and lots of forest to explore. But he had only been there a few days when we got a call to say he had gone missing - he turned up about 3 miles away, back towards our place. He was trying to make his way back home . (Because I am a meanie though, my first reaction was 'I'm impressed he managed to walk so far in a straight line' ). The story doesn't end particularly happily, I'm afraid - we had to put him to sleep . The way he was behaving in kennels he would have ended up pissing off the other hounds eventually, and he certainly wouldn't have been able to hold his own in a fight. My uncle has always felt guilty for possibly causing his problems at birth, but I honestly think that he had co-ordination problems from the start - the fact that he got stuck probably means that his muscles weren't working quite as they should. I think we made the right decision to give him a chance, also - we knew we had the facilities to look after him, and wanted to see whether he would grow out of his problems - it's just really unfortunate that he didn't, and that he wasn't suitable for a pet home. But we wouldn't have known unless we tried. 
larasndar fucked around with this message at 07:48 on May 27, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 27, 2007 07:44
|
|
|
Hadra posted:I noticed you posted 2 pictures of beagles with tails of other dogs in their mouths I think in Icon's picture he isn't actually biting on the tail, it's just being wagged in his face . We don't see it as a behaviour among the older hounds, no - that's part of why Verdict was getting to be so obnoxious . Interesting fact though - Icon was Verdict's dad!Puppies will chew on each other pretty often, but it's all part and parcel of learning the dos and don'ts of play fighting. It is really interesting to see the puppies stay together as a litter way past the point that show or pet puppies would have found new homes. As they get bigger and their teeth and jaws get stronger, they really do start to mediate themselves in the way you read about in dog training books - a puppy bites down too hard and the other will yelp and stop playing - often bowling the original puppy over and walking off in disgust. They soon figure out amongst themselves what is and isn't acceptable - which is why it's obviously so important to keep a handle on puppy mouthing and biting in a pet home context. They need to know that if they bite too hard it hurts you, and that it pisses you off so much that you don't want to play with them any more. No need for 'alpha rolls' or anything ( ), just a loud 'yelp' and then standing up and walking away should do it.Remember how I said about Willow's white spotted ear?  Meet Yonder. Yonder is Willow's great grandaughter (Willow -> Hero -> Quaker -> Yonder). She is also one of the little tiny puppies up at the top of the page with Meadow there Hound showing differs in a lot of ways from Kennel Club showing. The beagles are not stacked, and there is no hands-on contact between judge and hound. Rather, the hounds are let off lead and biscuits are thrown for them by the handler so that their movement can be assessed, and then the handler stands in front of them and gets them to stand still on a concrete slab so that their conformation can be studied. 'Unentered' hounds who have not yet hunted are shown seperately from entered hounds, and there is also usually a 'brood bitch'/ 'stallion' class for those who have produced offspring, and a 'veteran' class for former champions. One of the most interesting classes, though, is the 'couples' class. In breeding, you aspire for a 'level' pack - hounds that are well matched in height and build. So the couples class is a chance to demonstrate how similar your hounds are. Basically, two hounds are judged together and assessed for both quality and similarity of type. Take a look at Yonder and her sister Yasmine right here;  Theoretically, colour isn't supposed to matter - if you had a solid black hound and a solid white hound and they were built identically, they should win. However, in practice it really helps if the hounds have similar markings .Some shows go a step further and have a 'two couple' class. You guessed it - four hounds, judged together for quality and similarity. Take a look at our entry last year;  That's Justice, her daughter Quota and Quota's nieces Yonder and Yasmine. Couples have to be the same sex, but for the two-couple class you are allowed to have both sexes. (We came second, for the record - Justice and Quota won the couples class, though - and Justice went on to become reserve champion of the whole show! (aka best working bitch in Ireland that year  )Interestingly, I've noticed that at Crufts for the last couple of years they've had a 'Breeder's Stakes', which seems to follow the same idea as our couple/two couple classes. Are there any equivalent competitions in the American show world? Here's a video of Yonder and Yasmine to finish up with . 
larasndar fucked around with this message at 08:50 on May 28, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 27, 2007 22:49
|
|
|
Oh, and here is an example of exactly what I was talking about with Nugget. Watch as he squares up to Traveller (who is the biggest hound we have, and also a compete softie ), and Traveller is just like 'Pft, whatever Nugget'. Also; the beagle rootling in the straw nearest to the camera at the start of the clip is Twilight, and when the camera pans you can see Meadow right at the end .
|
|
#
¿
May 27, 2007 23:16
|
|
|
SolanaSkyes posted:OP, what kind of health testing do you do on your breeding stock? Do hunting beagle line have the same kind of health issues that the show bred ones do? We don't do genetic screening, and I honestly don't think you'd find a working pack of hounds who do. However, you could say we operate 'phenotypic screening'. With our pack we have the luxury of knowing, for the most part, the entire medical history of not only our puppies' direct ancestors but also those ancestors' littermates. We keep detailed medical records, which I'm in the process of moving onto a computerised database to make looking up specific syndromes or hounds easier. It's not a foolproof screening method, obviously, due to the possibility of recessively inherited disorders - but it's the traditional way, and the hunting community is pretty slow to move with the times. Mostly, our hounds are fit and healthy. We certainly do not pay out 40 x the average pet owner's vet bills, and those which we do are mostly to do with injury acquired in the field - a ripped nail or pulled muscle, for example. There have been significant exceptions, though, over the years. * Cleft palate - two of the puppies from the 'R' litter were born with a cleft palate. Both were an unusual livery colour - I have a tentative theory that some rare hound colours are associated with genetic disorders, but I couldn't say for sure. In any case, we haven't bred from either of the two surviving offspring - Ranter and Regal. The sire and dam were Icon and Gracious - this was Gracious' only litter, and none off Icon's other offspring have suffered the same condition. * Cherry eye - this has revealed itself recently; Meadow and her son Tiercel both developed the condition. Obviously, though, my uncle is breeding from Twilight. Really, in his mind cherry eye falls under the 'minor injury' category of health concerns - it is permanently fixable by a simple procedure which, on the past two occasions, has been performed for free by the vet at the agricultural college where my uncle works. If the condition were to become more prevalent among the pack - say, hypothetically, if most of this 'B' litter developed it - he would probably be thinking in terms of breeding strategy to counteract it. * Seizures - oh man, the 'P' litter .The 'P' litter were born to Harmony by B+S Wisdom. Seven beautiful, strong tricolour puppies - Ploughman, Pilot, Passion, Playful, Puzzle, Pebble, Patchwork. And then there was Precious. Precious was born smaller than her littermates, and with front legs which splayed out - this is likely do to nutritional leeching, which can happen in large litters. Like Verdict, though, we decided to give her a chance. And, you know what - just like Verdict she grew stronger every day, and she tried so hard. I was 16 and this was my first stint looking after the kennels for my uncle, under the supervision of my grandmother and with the help of our neighbours' children. I took over when they were about 5 weeks old and saw them through to 8 weeks - during that time I would take Precious out for a brief time every day just to work with her on the grass so that she could find purchase, supporting her chest with my hand. And it worked. Once she got to be about 12 weeks old, there was no difference between her and the rest of the 'P' gang - she was just always a little bit smaller. Every single one of this litter suffered from seizures. They could be running, or just chilling out in the kennels and - pow, they'd fall over and start fitting. Obviously this was extremely dangerous, particularly in the kennel environment where the others could easily have got freaked out and started to attack the fitting hound/each other. The first puppy, Puzzle, died at around four months old - my uncle just found her dead in the puppy lodge one morning. And, over the next six months, three more pups were found dead until only Precious, Pilot, Patchwork and Passion were left. The vet said he'd never seen anything like it, and wasn't able to diagnose precisely what the issue was. He did believe that it wasn't genetic - rather, the pups had all been exposed to something which had screwed up their liver. We figured the only thing it could possibly be was the new kennel my uncle had built out in the puppy run, which (we supposed) could have had small traces of lead based paint on it . You live and learn. Anyhow, the three remaining pups went about three months without any of them fitting, and we were holding our breath and crossing our fingers - but then one morning he found Pilot dead in kennels . At that stage, he decided to put the remaining three hounds to sleep.That is the only instance in my uncle's 40 years of working with the pack that a syndrome has devestated an entire litter like that. As I say, the vet couldn't come to any definite conclusions as to the cause of the fitting. Epilepsy is a genetic disorder associated with beagles, yet it isn't usually lethal within the first year. Thinking logically, also, if this specific disorder was hereditory then the reproductive fitness of those afflicted with it would be nil - so it wouldn't persist within the genome. So most likely it was caused by my uncle using old wood to construct that puppy house .Those have been the absolute worst case scenarios, though. In the vast majority of cases our beagles are born healthy and live healthy - absolutely no problems with joints, hips or patellas. Same goes for the rest of the packs in the UK/Ireland, although I'm sure they all have a couple of horror stories. Now for something completely different - have a few bonus pictures of Fatty  
larasndar fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 28, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 28, 2007 19:43
|
|
|
You know what, this thread had been inaccurately titled 'image heavy!' for way too long. This is Image. Heavy, isn't he?  Now, what we have with Image is a stirling example of how a working beagle should not look. His front legs are crooked, his back is way too long and his back end is practically as high as his head. And to think that he is littermate to Icon, one of the nicest hounds we've ever bred! If there's one thing I've learned over the last 15 years it is that stock breeding is an art, not a science. In this particular case, I think my uncle used the Vesper/Tinsel breeding which produced the 'I' litter to level out some of the faults seen in Vesper, the sire. He was a beautiful, heavy, old hound type, but had some of the bassety features that you see in Image here. Tinsel had a much more balanced, beagly shape. This particular sort of alchemy led to a litter with a lot of variation in it - In the case of Icon, to great effect; in the case of Image - not so much. But, you know, we went on to breed from Icon (three times, I think) and he has produced some really stunning offspring (and one or two oddballs ) - and we'll breed from the stunners in the future, and just enjoy the company of the oddballs while we have them .I'd be interested to hear from the showdog side how your attitude towards matchmaking and breeding quality compares. Do you guys tend to look for similarity of type in the sire/dam, or would you try to even out the faults of one or other? I'm guessing consistancy of quality is pretty important, but I'd also imagine that of any litter of pups, some would turn out to be pet quality. Is that the case? What percentage of show to pet quality would be expected in a litter? Getting back to Image though, and in spite of his physical shortcomings - man, he was a brilliant dog. I would have loved to have him as a pet, actually. Where Icon was aloof and sniffy, Image absolutely loved to be around people. He was never hyper or pushy, though - just loved it when you took the time to make a fuss of him, or take him out on a walk by himself. He was a real peacemaker in kennels - quite similar to Smuggler in that regard. He seemed like the sort of dog that views the world with a wry grin, if that makes sense - he never took anything too seriously. One year at our annual open day we decided to hold 'hound racing' throughout the day - 6 or 7 kids would hold a hound each at the top of the field, my uncle would stand at the bottom and blow the horn (the way he communicates with the pack out hunting), and we would record who passed a mark first - then go on to semi finals, finals and so on. We had a lot of fun coming up with 'racing names' for the beagles (I think Image was 'Man in the Mirror'), and the visitors placed small bets on whoever they fancied. And, do you know what happened? Image won his heat, he won the semi-finals and he won the finals. So much for conformation! And so much for all of us with 'inside tips' who had placed £1 on the leggy, streamlined guys . But also .Image is no longer with us, I'm sad to say. He lived to a good age, but one morning I let the hounds out for their breakfast and noticed that something was different - he had a bit of a delicate problem.  His balls were enormous!  A quick trip to the vet later, and it turned out he had torn 'something', possibly while jumping onto or off the bench? We'll never know. Anyhow, he was going to have to be castrated . My uncle was of the opinion that the operation would put him at a disadvantage in kennels, and besides - we'd already sort of decided that the previous season would be his last, and had pencilled in a home with him with a friend who had really fallen in love with him a few years ago, and always swore that he'd take Image in his retirement. My uncle had rung him a few weeks earlier, and he had been a bit non-commital. When we rang him back this time, he backed out . We made the decision to have Image put to sleep rather than go through with the operation. Even knowing that he'd lived a relatively long and extremely happy life, it was still hard to say goodbye. He was a good pal  .
|
|
#
¿
May 29, 2007 04:30
|
|
|
Twinkie Fat Sac posted:Beagles are my absolute favorite dog. I have a beagle/shepherd mix and she is probably the best dog ever. Do they ever howl for hours on end or are they not so vocal? Most of the day, the beagles are dead quiet. They would only start barking if something walked in front of the kennels, or somebody unfamiliar came into the kennels during the day. They also go mental at feeding or walk time, but that is to be expected .Now, howling is a really interesting topic. If we ever have to seperate a beagle due to illness, he or she will howl up a storm - a sort of loud, deep, pretty annoying 'oh god where is everybody, where are you guys  ' howl. There's also the alarm howl - this, to me, sounds most like a 'BAROOO!'. But when hounds are in kennels together, they don't howl - they sing. One hound will start off, and the rest will join in - it builds up in a sort of crescendo. To my ears, it is absolutely haunting and beautiful. It sends shivers up my spine to hear it. It is essentially the same behaviour as when you see wolves coming together to howl in unison - it strengthens the pack bond. I take it as a signal that the hounds are well fed, content and feel stable as a unit. I might try and tape some for you guys, if I can, when I go over to visit next (although that won't be until at least some time next week due to stupid exams ). P.S - sometimes, when the mood takes me, I may have been known to howl along with them 
larasndar fucked around with this message at 05:02 on May 29, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 29, 2007 04:58
|
|
|
Got an email from my uncle today - Twilight and pups are doing fine . Also, they made a bunch of cash playing petting zoo with the beagles at the weekend, which is great. I'd imagine they're also working pretty hard to get the place ready for next week's puppy show. The puppy show is a pretty important date in the summer schedule for any working pack. The show focuses solely on the kennel's own young entry (last year's pups, in other words), who are judged against one another - it's quite an honour to be invited to judge a puppy show, and people will travel a fair distance to do it. In foxhound packs this usually has a lot more significance, as puppies are 'sent out to walk' during their first year of life - that is, a local (usually farming) family will take one or two home to learn a bit about life outside of the kennels. The puppy show marks the return of the hounds to the pack, and the trophy for winning pup goes to the family who walked him or her. For a lot of people, it's an excuse to get together with their beagling chums and have a good gossip outside of the season, rather than pay any particular attention to the hounds. Which is fine - I suppose . Me, I'm all about the beagles. For us this year it will be the 'A' and 'Z' litters being judged - my money's on Admiral, for the record Here's a proper photo of Twilight I managed to dredge up.  Look at those eyes
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2007 04:19
|
|
|
Wow, thankyou so much you guys! . Frenchypoo, if you want to buy me an avatar I would be so honoured - but, obviously, you don't have to! Both the icon of Acrobat (the puppy ) and Twilight (!) are amazing - I couldn't possibly choose!bobsmyuncle posted:edit: Actually, after looking at the photo again maybe he's holding something else. If that isn't a pair of leads, what is it and what's it for? Well spotted! That's a whip. ...What? Don't look at me like that! I shouldn't have to say this by this point, really, but - the whip is never, ever, ever, ever (ever!) used to hit the dogs. Rather, it is an invaluable tool to aid with control of the pack while we're out.  This is a good example of how we use it. Here, the pack is coming to the end of the road (and also approaching sheep!). It is absolutely vital that none of them runs out in front of my uncle at this point. The whip becomes an extension of his arm - he flicks it out to the side, says 'steadyyy' or 'get back!', and they know to bunch together and stay tight behind him. Note the wagging tails - they're absolutely not afraid of it - it's just a tool for communication. If you've ever herded anything, you'll know what I'm talking about - you hold your arms out to encourage them to go forward or tell them to stop. It's just like that. Out in the hunting field, my uncle replaces the whip with the hunting horn to communicate with the hounds over longer distances. However, he's accompanied by 'whippers-in' - 3 or 4 people who are strategically placed with whips at roads, or who follow on a little behind - their job is either to 'tell' hounds who may have got split from the pack which direction to go, or to turn them away from potential danger. Obviously this role has a lot of responsibility acssociated with it, and it's a big honour to be asked to 'carry a whip'. If anyone is interested in getting involved with a pack of beagles (or foxhounds/staghounds/minkhounds/harriers), this page should be able to help you out (for those located in the uk), or the equivalent for the US here. Be warned, though - a lot of packs in the UK are rather suspicious of newcomers since the hunting ban. It really varies from pack to pack what their attitude is, at the moment. Anyhow, once more - thanks for all the kind words, guys! . I'm really enjoying making this thread in between DULL DULL DULL revision (osteology and population genetics ) - talking about the beagles is one of my favourite things to do .Edit: that US link was only foxhound packs - here is a listing of beagle packs
larasndar fucked around with this message at 02:57 on May 31, 2007 |
|
#
¿
May 31, 2007 02:38
|
|
|
I'd like to introduce you to Stringer  Uncle to the new 'B' litter, grandson to Willow, for those following along Looks and temperament-wise, Stringer doesn't stand out a lot from the crowd. He's pretty wide-set, a little roach-backed and his head is a bit long and unbeagly. He's also quite relaxed and well-mannered - none of the cheekiness of Nugget or aloof dignity of Icon. However, he's worked out a behaviour that might just make him one of the smartest hounds in kennels. I first noticed this 2 years ago, when I was doing my yearly kennelsitting job. I scrape out all of the lodges three times a day - in the morning and evening I usually just let the hounds out into the collecting areas in front of the boys and girls sides of the kennels, but in the afternoon I tend to let them out for a brief gallop in the paddock while I'm busy. They also get a longer stretch in the paddock sometime during the day while I'm there to supervise (I don't feel confident enough to walk out with them all as my uncle does). So anyway, usually the hounds crowd round the lodge door as I approach for whatever reason, and are very excited to get to go through A DOOR, OH BOY! - whether to go out into the paddock or just to chill out in the front of the kennels. Not Stringer, though. One week I noticed that the last few days he'd been on the bench, inside the lodge when I went into clean it. It hadn't really registered the first couple of days because it's not that unusual for a beagle to be fast asleep and not catch on that something VERY EXCITING is happening, and so end up stuck in the lodge. Not that unusual, but not that common, either - and especially not every day. I was actually pretty worried at first, that Stringer (or Stringbean ) might be feeling sick and uncomfortable, so not want to move much - but he'd been fine at feeding time, and whenever it was time to go into the paddock  .Basically, Stringer had realised that getting to go through A DOOR! wasn't always all it was cracked up to be. Sometimes it meant fun things, like food or exercise; but sometimes it just meant hanging around in the boring collecting area . Much funner to stay inside the lodge and get a scritch on the head for his trouble. So, this is his method;* While all the other hounds bunch round the door and get all excited when they hear me approaching, Stringer hangs back and scrutinises the situation. * If I'm carrying the scraper and go to let the first lodge of boys out into the paddock, that means it's playtime! Stringer happily follows the rest of his lodge out of the door. * If I'm NOT carrying the scraper, and go to let Stringer's lodge out - well, that could mean anything. Probably something fun, like food or playtime! Stringer happily follows the rest of his lodge out of the door. * If I AM carrying the scraper, though - and if he sees that I haven't let any of the other hounds into the paddock - he immediately nips back inside the indoor part of the lodge . Then, once I've let all the other guys out, I'll usually find him curled up on the bench like he was there the whole time, thumping his tail and looking all pleased with himself!When my uncle came back from holiday he wouldn't believe me until I showed him. Interestingly, Stringer doesn't perform the same trick for JS (my uncle) - probably because he realises that I'm a soft touch and will fuss over him, while JS would be more likely to tell him 'Out!' and have him join the other guys. (That might sound mean, but is actually really sensible in terms of pack dynamics - I'll talk about that some other time). So, there you have it. Such a clever boy .
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2007 02:29
|
|
|
Okay, quite a lot to talk about! 1) Jax and Fern - ! What cuties . If anyone else has pictures tucked away of their little beagly pals, please share!2) I actually thought I was hallucinating today when I saw two harriers on leads in Cambridge city centre, of all places! I nipped over to have a word with the guy, and they were working hounds from Cumbria. I didn't quite hear what they were doing so far away from home - he had a very quiet voice . Coincidently, we've taken a few of the beagles over to Cumbria for the last couple of years to compete in a hound show - didn't think to mention it, though. Cumbria is famous (within the hunting world) for its Fell hounds - imagine a foxhound crossed with a greyhound, shaved. They work completely alone, following an laid trail for miles throughout the Fells - all the owners can do is encourage from the finish lines. As for the shaving - supposedly it shears five minutes off their time!3) Dru posted:You said none of the dogs were spayed, so how do you handle a bitch in heat with lots and lots of studly beagles around? Moraine Sedai posted:The only thing I am left questioning is exercising them. Do you leave them in kennel during walkies and then let them out on their own for a good stretch? And how frequently are more than one in heat at the same time? Does it make the boys harder to handle? Again, good questions .First of all, for the last few years we've had considerably more bitches than dog hounds - 25-30 to 12-15 (or thereabouts). However, last year we had a bumper crop of boys (8) and we've lost a few of the older girls, so once the 'Z' and 'A' pups mature, the numbers will be a lot more even. We usually have at least 1 girl on heat, often two or three. We keep careful records, so we can usually anticipate who might be about to come into heat - but, again; it's not an exact science. Yup, the boys and girls are seperated - but we also make sure to keep the on heat bitches in the furthest lodge from the guys, so they don't get wound up during the day. That works pretty well, for the most part. It isn't ideal, though - whoever are in the lodge with them get associated with their scent, and sometimes end up getting pestered a bit by the boys while out on walks. They aren't particularly difficult to handle, though - you just have to grumble at them when they're messing about (Nugget! Nooo.. ). It isn't really fair on the girls, though, and some of them do end up getting a bit annoyed (understandably!). It isn't just the boys, though - you often see the girls they're housed with going through mating behaviour with them. This isn't a dominance thing; it's literally just a behavioural response to the scent.JS has for a number of years talked about having a 'hot house' - a smaller kennel completely seperate from the main block to house bitches in season/ ill/injured hounds/ mums and pups. It certainly would be very useful - but not essential, which is why it hasn't come to fruition yet! In a summer or two, maybe.. Exercise-wise, we usually let the on heat bitches out to run in the paddock in the evenings, after the main walk. We'll take them on longer walks into the fields also, but not as frequently - they're really on 'down time' when they're on heat. Our kennels are really (really!) secure - for one of the boys to get in with the bitches he would have to negotiate two of these concrete and railed walls (the railings go up to the roof, with a small gap between the top and the beams); It would take a pretty persistant beagle, right? ... Yeah. That beagle's name was Profit .My uncle came in one morning, to find Profit in with the bitches. The 'hot' bitches. Looking pretty pleased with himself. This was waaay back - 1993, must have been. JS couldn't believe it - the only explanation seemed to be that Profit had snuck in with the bitches after the walk, and JS had been absent-minded enough that he didn't notice. Which seemed pretty unlikely - especially considering we call each hound into the lodge by name - but, hey, the facts spoke for themselves, didn't they? That was the theory until, a couple of days later my uncle witnessed for himself Profit scrabbling up from the bench onto the tiny 'ledge' where the railings meet the wall, and trying desperately to hoy himself over the top of the railings. Never understimate the drive of an intact male, guys! There were three bitches in season at that time - Quincy, who (by happy coincidence) had been mated with Profit's brother Prosper; the original Meadow, who hadn't been mated at all - and Playful, Profit's sister .All three bitches fell pregnant. With Quincy, it was technically fine - we put Profit's name down in the stud book, but even if the puppies had been sired by Prosper, as littermates it wouldn't make any difference to future breeding strategy. That was the 'C' litter. Meadow had the (original!) 'B' litter - they were Profit's; there was no question. There was also an 'A' litter born that year, but the bitch in question hadn't been in the lodge that night, so there was no worries. That left Playful. Now, this was 14 years ago, and the my relatives live in a really rural area. I don't think doggy morning after pills and/or the option of aborting the pups was available to my uncle - he MAY have had the option of having Playful spayed, and the puppies removed that way; I'd have to check. Whether by necessity or choice, though, the litter was whelped - and he had to do the responsible thing, and put the puppies to sleep as soon as they were born. Literally, as soon as they emerged, he put them gently into a bucket of warm water. I've since asked him why he didn't take them to the vet to have them euthanised, and he said he wouldn't have been able to go through with it - he would have built up an attachment to them in the time it took. Which makes sense, I guess. I obviously understand why he couldn't rear a litter of incestuous puppies, but at the same time it seems a crying shame that they were carried to term - losing a litter of puppies is emotionally and potentially physically damaging for the bitch, who is chock full of hormones and milk. I know that he was faced with a fairly horrendous decision, but I just hope that he made the absolute best choice that he could, given the circumstances .Sorry, that was a horrible story. I should really warn if a story is going to involve dead puppies, shouldn't I? (those are definitely the main dead puppy stories though; the 'P' litter and Playful). The moral is though; any time you have intact dogs, there is the potential for accidents to happen. Even if you think everything is secure as can be. Pack dynamics deserves a post of its own; I've got a stack full of revision to get through first, though, ick
larasndar fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 1, 2007 |
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2007 18:01
|
|
|
Pineapple posted:That's awful, I'm sorry your uncle felt he had to do that. They should've been fine if they were fixed and placed into pet homes as 2-3 month old pups. Yup, I realise that - I think my uncle might act differently now, in the incredibly unlikely event that he found himself in that situation again. A lot of the accumulated beagling 'wisdom' is traditional, and doesn't necessarily correlate with today's reality. It's sometimes hard for those involved to break out of that. Moraine Sedai posted:Awww...I feel awful for Playful. And your uncle having to make that decision. You know, now that you mention it I'm almost certain that they would have allowed Playful to suckle some of the pups from the other three litters. It seems entirely logical. I was six when this happened, but didn't actually learn about it until I was much older - JS has rarely brought it up since; I think he just wants to forget it ever happened . But yeah, I'm hazy on quite a few of the details other than what I've already mentioned.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2007 04:12
|
|
|
If you look closely at the picture of the back corridor of the kennels up there, you'll see that it has names written all over it. That was a project I worked on, last summer - here is a rather appropriate close-up; And another;  It took a LOT of preperation, I tell you what. The idea was to write up the names of all the hounds who had ever lived in kennels along the walls - my uncle and I to-ed and fro-ed over the specifics. My 'vision', rather morbidly, was to have the hounds listed in the order they 'left the kennels' (i.e; died, got drafted to another pack, became a pet etc). I thought that it would be a pretty nice gesture to ceremoniously write their names on the wall after they were gone. My uncle thought that this was ridiculous! We thought for a while about doing a big 'family tree', but decided that would be too complicated. In the end we settled for a straightforward listing of hounds in birth order - we still had to decide whether to include puppies that had died before reaching adulthood (yes, if they had a name, is the rule - the 'P' litter are up there), or the two stallion hounds we took from England (yes, they became part of the pack even if we didn't breed them). Once that was decided I had to go back through 14 years of studbooks and hound lists to make sure I got everyone (not quite - JS gleefully emailed a few weeks later to point out that I'd missed off 'Kingdom'  ). Then I had to give the walls two coats of paint, spend hours ruling pencil lines out (I wanted it to be neat ), write out the names in pencil and - finally! - write over the pencilled names in marker. Phew!I got pretty sentimental doing it, I must say - writing out all of the names brought back a lot of memories. I left a few spaces blank - Quality, for 'wee Jane' down the road who took her as a pet; Inca for my aunt (her favourite); Granite and Hero for one of our followers who took them in their retirement. Twilight's name got written up by 'Keen Stephen'; a local kid who comes to help out occasionally since his mum won't let him have dogs and he loves them. Twilight was his favourite last time I checked, and I'm sure he'll be thrilled that she has puppies. I also left a couple of 'Easter Eggs' - the tiny hounds' names are written small; the giants' big; Verdict in italics, etc. A couple of hearts hidden in the loops of 'y's and circles of 'o's of my particular favourites. Meh, it kept me amused! The hounds are named alphabetically, which I've already mentioned, but there are a number of other rules in force, too. The names are usually two syllables, with the emphasis on the first (Twilight, Merlin, Ringlet) - but occasionally we stretch to three (Harmony, Odyssey, Vagabond). The names should all sound distinctive, also - 'Meadow' and 'Nettle' sound surprisingly similar when you're calling across a field, and that's only ever going to be confusing for the hounds. Traditional hound names are usually pretty poetic or pastoral - names of flowers (Orchid, Yarrow, Clover); birds (Kestrel, Lapwing, Osprey) and general 'countryside stuff' (Pebble, Meadow, Acorn) are common. We also have a fair few occupational nouns (Ploughman, Acrobat, Warrior'), place names (Aintree, Sherby, Antrim) and nice-sounding adjectives (Vital, Precious, Dainty). We don't do human names, and for the most part the names are traditional hound names that you could look up in some hound book or other. We do have a couple of original contributions, though - Kiwi, Wombat and ZigZag, for example. A few years back I set my uncle a challenge that he couldn't reuse any names that had been used in the previous alphabetic cycle - it got confusing talking about 'the old' Meadow/Image/Quibble etc. So, when we get around to naming the 'B' litter, he won't be allowed to use 'Boisterous', 'Bashful', 'Baggage' or 'Bluebell' . Another challenge was not to skip straight from 'W' to 'A' like he did last time - he missed out 'X', which I think was reasonable, but managed 'Y' and 'Z' just fine .Here is a picture of Yeoman (son of Meadow). I could try and tell you I'm including it because I really like his name or something, but the truth is - I just like the photograph 
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2007 17:40
|
|
|
So, today was our pack's Puppy Show. I didn't get to go, due to exams and whatnot - but I did get to do the next best thing! That's right - I attended another pack's Puppy Show! Prepare yourselves - the beagle content in this thread is about to double .It was a beautiful afternoon; the sun was blazing. The showing kicked off at around three - remember; Puppy Shows are all about the pack's own unentered hounds - no interhunt competition. N.b it is practically impossible to take nice pictures of hounds being shown, especially young'uns. They just do not keep still long enough . Okay, so these are the girl puppies. Spangle, Wrinkle and Wryneck. Unfortunately I was charging my camera up during the judging of the boys, sorry . Wryneck won. You'll see her close up later on.  A brief interlude, where we see the parents of the pups. Sometimes they need a little encouragement to stand.  Nearly..  That's it!  Such a good girl!  Okay, now it's time to judge Wryneck against the winner of the boys - her brother, Wrangler.  Beagles like to prance  Woah!  That's more like it  Wrangler won overall - pretty typical; boys usually win out over girls, foxhounds over beagles . For the finale - release the hounds!  OH BOY!   BISCUITS! I SMELL BISCUITS CAN I HAVE SOME MUM PLEEEASE CAN I      That sure is a rumpus     One of these puppies is called 'Wifi'      What funny looking beagle puppies  Oh, wait - they're lurcher puppies!  Being a lurcher puppy seems to involve quite a lot of chilling out  Adult lurchers are a little more focused  .. most of the time  This pack only has two lodges; one for boys and one for girls  Boys  Girls   This poor lady was on heat and missing out on all the fun. Being a girl is hard Well, that's your lot! Have you got beagle fatigue yet? Thankyou guys so much for the avatar and title - and yay Rocky, Daisy, Grant and Lee! Any more beagles out there? And a question to you - have any of you beagle owners ever considered or tried out working your hounds? Right, back to revision
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2007 19:06
|
|
|
unprofessional posted:Question for you: do your adults still wrestle? The vet put mine at about two years old, and they still wrestle and run around for hours every night. I'm hoping it's a trait they keep. Certainly the beagles mellow with age, although I think that might just be a facet of living in the pack. Something I want to go into a lot more detail about when I have the time is the fact that, perhaps surprisingly to some, there is little or no 'fluid' hierarchy within the pack - power struggles would be absolutely counterproductive to them all living together and they would literally all wind up killing each other. You'll notice I haven't mentioned 'alpha' or 'beta' once. It's my opinion (which I'll hopefuly be able to back up with sources and observations in a day or two, once my stupid exams are over) that that sort of dominance hierarchy has been largely bred out of pack-living domestic dogs. That's not to say that there isn't a social structure; but social roles are largely based on age and 'species' (human/hound/dog - they react very differently to dogs that don't look like beagles than they do unfamiliar beagles). I.e, the roles are grounded in biological reality and not up for debate. Social harmony is reached on mutual acknowledgement of the social structure. That's why keeping a hound such as Verdict in kennels would have been too dangerous - he would have overstepped a line with one of the older hounds, and they would have nailed him. So, getting back to wrestling - while it's fine among the younger puppies, and even some of the more tolerant 4 or 5 year olds might join in with them - it really, really doesn't happen among the older crew. Wrestling among puppies is all good fun, but if an older hound were to show submission to another in that sort of way it would upset the balance and all too quickly turn into a real power battle. So they mostly avoid that sort of scenario altogether (or this is my theory, at least!). When two hounds do square up to one another, it's usually the equivalent of 'I could have you, you know' 'Yeah, I could have you too..' and then they leave it, and just walk away with their hackles up. Rarely escalates into any sort of physical engagement - and if it does, it's serious. But that's in the very specific environment of the pack! As for your two, I don't see why they wouldn't carry on wrestling and goofing around with each other - any of our hounds that are rehomed early enough end up being pretty regular (if energetic and stubborn) pet dogs .Phew, that was long! What I really came here to tell you was the results of the Puppy Show! Now, remember I said Puppy Shows are all about the pack's own yearlings? Well, we actually do things a little differently - there are only three beagle packs in our region so we have a sort of interhunt Puppy Show at our place. One pack didn't have any pups last year, though, so it was just two. We'll give the packs the initials A (us) and B (them). Just to complicate things a little, though, a couple of their hounds were from our breeding/ours from theirs - I'll explain as we go along .Unentered Dog 1) A. Aztec  2) A. Zulu 3) B. Faithful Not bad, eh? (P.S the pups obviously look pretty different now that they are essentially full grown, but I didn't think to take pictures when I went to see them at Christmas so these will have to do )Unentered Bitch 1) A. Antrim  2) A. Alder  (the lighter lemon) 3) B. Zig Zag  Okay, here's where it gets a bit complicated! We (the A) technically bred Zig Zag - she's littermate to Zulu, Zero and Zodiac. However, we used a B hound as the sire, so he got to take 2 pups. We used the same sire (B) for the 'A' litter (Aztec, Antrim, etc) - so technically both the A and B are winning whenever a Z or A puppy wins. And if you followed that, you deserve a prize - if not, just look at the puppies! Unentered Couples 1) A. Antrim/Alder 2) A. Aztec/Acrobat 3) B. Favour/Fiddler Overall Champion was Antrim, Reserve was Alder. Yay girls! So we did well, but it was really a mutual backslapping thing since they had both A and B blood. Okay, sorry if that was incredibly tedious; just thought I should keep you posted
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2007 18:52
|
|
|
Hey guys - I had three days of evil, evil exams, but they're all finished with now. Looking forward to a chimp and beagle filled summer! A brief Pupdate - my aunt reports that all of their eyes are open, and they are starting to get a lot more lively. One of the boys is called Bismark, and possibly Bantam for one of the smaller girls. I quite like the idea of Blighty or Barnyard as names, but we'll have to see.Lensa posted:
Short answer; biscuits! A pocket full of biscuits goes a long way. You see all those pictures where the hounds are looking adoringly up at my uncle? Yeah; they're waiting for biscuits. Cupboard love is pretty much the beagle way .Longer answer; a combination of instinct, routine, training, patience and vigilance. Honestly, walking out with 30-40 hounds at a time is a pretty big liability - as I say; not something that I'd feel confident enough to do. It makes it easier that these dogs have been bred for generations to be able to be controlled simultaneously, as a pack. At the same time; that instinctinctive tendency has to be trained up in order to get the best - and safest - results. It's a constant process; we're constantly addressing the hounds by name - telling them to hurry up, or stay back. I've mentioned the couples and whips - they really are invaluable tools for training the pack to stick together. You have to stay focused, and keep moving - constantly watching for hounds nipping into barns or fields with stock in them; calling them back or chasing them on as necessary. Maybe 5 times that I've seen they've caught the scent of a rabbit and started hunting it properly away from us, but they usually come back to my uncle when he yells for them (eventually!). Hunting field's a different story - the hounds need to work away from you; but still remain under control. That's where the horn comes in, and a lot of strategy - we have to get permission off the landowners to hunt over their land; so my uncle and the whippers in need to have a grip of what fields they can and can't work into; where the danger zones like roads and railway lines are; that sort of thing. In our area; farmers spotting loose dogs on their land are well within their rights to shoot them, so obviously control and keeping within the boundaries is a constant worry. One of the features which has traditionally made beagling such a popular sport is the way the hare runs - she runs in huge circles. That means that, if you get yourself high enough on a slope, you can essentially stand in one spot and watch the hounds work around you. It also means that the hounds stay within a few square miles while they're hunting a trail. Occasionally, the hounds will pick up the scent of a deer and start running in a straight line. This is particularly dangerous; one season, my uncle actually lost the pack completely - he didn't catch up with them for 4 hours. Nightmare! Luckily we were in a very remote area, and no harm was done. As for your second question - is this the sort of thing you were thinking about? (I'm assuming you're in the UK). Never had any direct experience; but it looks like a lot of fun! Final piece of good news - a mate of ours collected Best of Group for the hound class, showing a (purebred) Basset Hound at the Irish Kennel Club show. Not his own breeding but related to his lineage, and he's well chuffed! 
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2007 15:14
|
|
|
Heh - sorry, guys! I've been pretty busy since my exams finished. No puppy pics yet, I'm afraid - I'm heading over on Sunday though! Hopefully I should arrive in time to help out with the showing at a local hound show - I'll come back with a full report! It will be interesting to see how Alder and Antrim, the two pups who were most successful at our puppy show, will do in competition with the local adult hounds. I found a photo I took of the puppies at Christmas, just to give you some idea of how big (and rambunctious!) they have become:  Cutie pies .Here's a hound I haven't introduced you to yet:  This is Unity. She's daughter to Inca, who you saw earlier, and Noble, who you haven't seen. He was the son of Willow, and was unusual in that he had not only her white ear, but also a bright blue eye; like a husky. I've never seen that lack of eye pigment in a beagle before; and nor have most people I've spoken to. Unfortunately the only picture I have of him right here is LJ icon sized, but you can see his eye quite clearly; Unity's eye isn't blue; but if you catch it in the right light, it looks misty with a blue tint. As far as we can tell, neither Noble nor Unity were blind in their unusual eyes - or certainly not dehabilitatingly so. Unity is fairly highly strung, just as Noble was. She feels very out of her depth when we take the hounds to play petting zoo, and spends most of the day pacing round and round the pen with her tail down. As a result, we tend to leave her behind - however, every once in a while we do bring her out with the rest of the gang. This is important as, while we wouldn't want to traumatise any beagle by making them do things they hate, nor would we want any to miss out on the valuable socialisation they get from going round the fairs. We need for them to know that children might be annoying but they are not scary and not dangerous. All beagles that I've ever worked with have been gentle to a fault; but you can't trust a beagle not to bite out of fear or pain, just as with any animal. Kids love beagles, and most beagles love kids - but those who don't need to learn to tolerate them or it would be highly irresponsible of us to allow them offlead and often out of sight within the countryside. So we take the shy ones with us on a quiet day, and let them put up with being prodded and poked a bit, but never frightened (beagles are a GREAT tool to teach kids how to behave with dogs, too, and we spend a lot of time explaining what is and isn't okay to do around a strange dog). Something that really touched me with Unity was when one day I decided to go and sit down in the pen to have a bit of a rest while my aunt took over the gate duty. Unity had been pacing and nervous the whole time, and I didn't really expect her to treat me any differently than the other kids. I had only been over for a couple of days, and it had been a good few months since I'd seen the beagles properly. Unity in particular has always been a bit reserved, and would never to be one to bound up all 'OH YAY YOU'RE HERE LET'S PLAY' like a lot of the other guys, so I'd never really considered that she recognised or trusted me particularly. But no, to my surprise Unity came straight up to me, whimpering a little bit, and squeezed herself right in between me and the fence, with her head resting on my lap. I talked to her, and stroked her ear, and eventually she fell asleep - right in the midst of this nasty situation and all these horrible kids she felt safe and confident enough that she could fall asleep, just because she knew me and trusted that I wouldn't let anything bad happen to her. . And you can't buy that sort of trust, honestly - it takes time and work and patience, and getting up early and scraping up barrowsfull of poo poo and working in the rain and when you're exhausted. But if you do it often enough, and patiently enough, and with enough love - that's when you earn your effort back, tenfold. Dogs never lie about love; and shy dogs never lie about trust. And, to me, it means the world .
|
|
#
¿
Jun 12, 2007 14:16
|
|
|
Oh, also - a little Pupdate from my Aunt; "They are just about walking - standing on very wobbly legs, sometimes going forwards, sometimes backwards with a look of surprise & sometimes sitting down with an unexpected thump." Here are a few pictures of the 'Y' litter when they were a similar age   .. and a bit older  Yukon  Yonder larasndar fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jun 12, 2007 |
|
#
¿
Jun 12, 2007 14:58
|
|
|
FrenchyPoo Fagnasty posted:Of course there are a few dogs that you really connect with and at some point they die. I'm sure it must be devastating, but how do you handle it? Does it ever turn into a sad fact of life, or are you heartbroken everytime? Oh yes, it happens, and it is always heartbreaking - I have learned to compartmentalise it, and rationalise it, though. As I say, working beagles tread a fine line between pet and livestock, and like any kids growing up in an agricultural environment we learned about the transitory nature of life from pretty early on - rearing a clutch of chicks, for example, and opening the coop to find the dear little speckled one has been taken by a rat in the night; or finding a spot of feathers where the mammy hen has been taken by the fox. With the poultry, you constantly live under the knowledge that much as you love these funny little characters, they aren't with you for ever. I think when I was younger I was very much encouraged to apply that same attitude to the beagles. When I was very young I would get really upset to come over for my yearly summer holiday and find a few of my pals missing, but it would always be explained to me as a sort of 'circle of life' concept; if the old hounds lived forever, there would never be any puppies - that sort of thing. I think I accepted that for a number of years, but then these last couple of years I've found it all the more difficult. As you've seen, I've known every single hound in kennels from when he or she was at most a couple of weeks old but often from the moment they were born - and now, increasingly, their parents and grandparents also. What's more, I've become far more heavily involved with the running of the kennels over the past 5 or so years - aside from my uncle and aunt, there's no other person who has as much time and love invested in them all as me. So I feel responsible for them, and I love them, and I hate to lose them. At the same time; as much as my uncle values my opinion, at the end of the day they are his hounds, and he makes the ultimate decision of when it's time for the old timers to move on - preferably to a new home, but that isn't always an option.  This is Ivory. I honestly can't describe how much that hound meant to me, and how utterly devastated I was when my uncle eventually made the decision to have her put to sleep. She was born when I was about 9 or 10; sister to Inca, Icon and Image. She was the hound I told all my secrets to, growing up; I would sneak her out for walks on her own when my uncle was at work and sit in the fields making daisy chains and watching the baby bunnies who lived in the hedgerows. If she saw me she would start thumping her tail, she would press herself right up to the doorway and I would sneak her special biscuits. One time the whole pack took off after a rabbit, and she didn't follow them - just looked all worried and came over to me. I loved her so much. In the picture it looks a little like I'm throttling her, but I literally had to push her away from my side to get a photograph of her. I knew that was the last walk I would ever have with her. Honestly? I think if I had been maybe 5 or 6 years older and been in a stable point in my life, my uncle would have considered me taking her as a pet into retirement. But as an 18 year old about to start university, there was absolutely no way. And, as a member of the pack, she'd had a great decade and it was time for her to move on. But, oh man it chews me up to think about it. It might sound ridiculous but I always think of her at the line 'How many seas must the white dove sail/ before she sleeps in the sand'. She was pure white with the softest, creamy pale ears. She was an absolute sweetheart. I loved her, and I miss her. Here's something I wrote about Merlin when he was put to sleep recently. I'm a bit sad I don't have a better picture of him, but then again not so much. I'm not a big taker of photographs for sentimental reasons. I remember interrailing with Aly she used to ask why I never took photographs of stuff, and I guess I didn't really have an answer. It just doesn't often occur to me. I prefer to enjoy a moment and an experience in itself, rather than stepping outside of it. I started taking pictures of the hounds mostly for the internets, because I think it's a part of life that not a whole lot of people have access to, and hopefully that some people might find interesting. Things like puppies when they are newly born and the process of the evening walk, and hound showing, and all that kind of thing. But for me, I don't really need it. What I loved about Merlin couldn't be summed up in a photograph. Him and Meadow as two chubby little puppies waiting for me, and being told about them in the car from the airport. I don't need a photograph to remind me of his crooked tail which he always carried so proudly, the broad white blaze on his face and his golden eyes, giving him a slightly vacant expression. The way he was such a strapping little hound who would always stand up for himself amongst the bigger boys, but yet always be calm and patient with the young puppies as they began to integrate with the pack. And he's still there, in his sister Meadow, in his nieces and nephews - Yardstick has his exact colouring, and they all have that wide face of his, and strength of bone. And so long as they're around, I'll find little traces of Merlin in the kennels. Little glimpses. They hang around. Because I'm a silly old ham I like to think that when we take the pack out for a walk in the evening all the old souls come along with us - Keeper trotting along at the rear, Harmony away out in front, Verger and Vesper plodding along like two great thugs, the whole gang. I'm quite happy being fanciful, you know. (N.b I am a tremendous sap, yes, but I make no apologies for it!) So the pain does ease, and every year there are new little characters to get to know and love. For a while I started resenting the new puppies, seeing them as 'booting out' all my old favourites - but, of course, that's a silly way to look at it. I just love them while they're here, and make sure they have the funnest life a beagle could ever ask for. They get to live with their friends and race around the countryside and Explore and Sing and Smell, and they get to come home to a nice warm bed and a nice yummmy dinner and a scratch on the nose. And as far as I'm concerned, making all that come about is worth the eventual pang of losing each little buddy. It only hurts because you loved them so much. That's never a negative emotion, even if it's hard.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 12, 2007 19:01
|
|
|
BOrangeFury posted:You are a wonderful, doggy person, Not. Dont worry, you'll see Ivory again. Animal lovers dont go to Heaven, they get to go over the Rainbow Bridge and hang out with all their old friends, along with all the other animal lovers. Aww . I always loved the idea of the Rainbow Bridge - I always imagine my uncle will be greeted by a huge swarm of all the hounds he's ever bred and worked with over the decades  . Here's a fact for you - it's traditional for hunting folk to have two couple of hounds present at their weddings and funerals; also, huntsmen/women usually have 'Going Home' - the note that's played on the horn to signal the end of a day's hunting - blown as their coffin is lowered.Here's another character for you;  Traveller. What a lug. He is our biggest hound by far; technically a harrier in terms of height. He is Twilight's brother, so daughter to Meadow and uncle to the new pups. He is called 'Traveller' because he was born in the back of my uncle's van, on the way back from the vet - being so large, Meadow had trouble delivering him and needed an injection to strengthen her contractions - evidently it worked a little sooner than anticipated! Traveller is friendly, affable and very chilled. He has aged remarkable quickly - see all the grey around his face? He was only three years old when that was taken. We have to keep a close eye on ear infections with the hounds - Traveller is particularly prone to them, poor guy. And, for comparison..  This is Wombat, pestering Anna . She is tiny, and a real scamp. She loves to play chase with the young puppies - chase involves one hound playing 'bunny'; sticking their tail between their legs and belting across the paddock, with four or five other nuisances in hot pursuit. The older hounds look on, distinctly unimpressed. Wombat was born to Justice and Hero - a mating which my uncle actually repeated; so the 'Q' and 'W' hounds are all technically littermates. Hero, incidentally, is one of our successfully retired hounds, living out his golden years along with his pal Granite in the home of a friend of ours. Two of Wombat's sisters (Quality and Whisper) were of equivalent size and showed very little interest in hunting, so we rehomed them also. Wombat has proved very keen, however. She also had a smaller brother, Waxwing - and, I have to say, he was one of the few hounds I've ever borderline disliked. Beautiful, isn't he? But just way too independent. He wasn't scared of people, he just disliked them - everything you asked him to do, he would do grudgingly. In the end we drafted him to another pack - where, apparently, he bit somebody as they reached for him. It honestly doesn't surprise me. I think he settled in eventually, though, and hopefully has become a happier/less stroppy hound as he's matured. Here is another of the Q/W clan - Quickstep!  Here she is pleading with a member of the public for some of their ice-cream;  "I am a poor, undernourished beagle and all I ever get to eat is COAL" *big beagly eyes* Quickstep is mum to last year's 'Z' litter, who have turned out nowhere near as beautiful as she is - but still very cute . Here they are as teeny puppies:    . See how Zig-Zag got her name? (second to last photo)To finish up with, here's a better shot of Noble (Unity's dad, Willow's son). He really was nicely put together - see his level topline, and straight legs? He was a great beagle, and won a few championships in his day.  Here's his eye a little bigger, also: 
larasndar fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jun 14, 2007 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2007 13:39
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 00:55 |
|
|
Hey guys. I hope you don't mind me updating twice in a row - just to let you know, I've a flying visit scheduled to visit the beagles on Sunday. I'm going to help out with a show and, of course, meet the new puppies . I shall be bringing my camera, so I was wondering if there was anything in particular you would like me to photograph? Any particular hounds? I will try to get some good shots of the 'A' and 'Z' litters to show you how much they've grown Here are a couple of completely random shots for the time being;   Acrobat again. She is far too cute.  Here is a puppy trying to destroy my camera  Puppies can be exhausting.  Something incredibly exciting has obviously passed into this field. Identifiable in the photo are Yarrow, Inca, Yocal, Spitfire and Quickstep.  Here Yarrow is being a nuisance and trying to get Innocent to chase after her . I don't know what she has found; but it is likely smelly/disgusting. She is only wearing the collar of her couple, which probably means she was winding her partner up so much that my uncle let her off. Yarrow has been rehomed since I was last over - she didn't take to hunting at all, but is thoroughly enjoying being a pet . Zebra and Zeppelin. We experimented last year with bringing the older puppies along to play petting zoo - we set up a hexagonal pen in the middle of the larger enclosure, which meant that the pups could come over to the fence to be petted if they wanted, but were also able to get away from the kids if they wanted. Only one child attempted to sneak in with them, the rest had to resort to enticement;   Another shot of the whole gang. Wombat is the tri hound with the straight, short stern all the way to the left - see how tiny she is!  Anna, looking ridiculously like a hairy bulldog.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2007 01:45
|
|