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Leave the front raises out, benching will hit those pretty good. If you want to you can throw in some dumbell shoulder presses and extra side/rear delt work. Just make sure the increased volume isn't too much for you to handle on top of all the heavy squat/dead/bench work.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2007 21:35 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 16:47 |
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PettyFerrari posted:Quoting because it got looked over. Push Press and Arnold Preses, those raises aren't going to do much for overall size.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2007 22:42 |
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read through this whole thing and didn't catch it--what sort of warm up is involved with each split?
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| # ? Jun 6, 2007 23:48 |
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PettyFerrari posted:Quoting because it got looked over. DB upright rows instead of the front raises probably. Qaz Kwaz posted:read through this whole thing and didn't catch it--what sort of warm up is involved with each split? None? What warm up do you do with your present workout?
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 02:00 |
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cavefish posted:Leave the front raises out, benching will hit those pretty good. If you want to you can throw in some dumbell shoulder presses and extra side/rear delt work. Just make sure the increased volume isn't too much for you to handle on top of all the heavy squat/dead/bench work. alfalfa posted:Push Press and Arnold Preses, those raises aren't going to do much for overall size. Thanks for the replies. Should I be adding the extra exercises on wednesday after doing the military press?
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 02:02 |
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Qaz Kwaz posted:read through this whole thing and didn't catch it--what sort of warm up is involved with each split? I just stretched to start off and then between sets if I feel tight, maybe a set of pullups or pushups in different stances/grips depending on what I'm doing.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 02:59 |
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PettyFerrari posted:Thanks for the replies. I can't really say and I don't know what your other days look like. I don't know exactly how much you can modify the 5x5 and get away with so to speak.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 03:01 |
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fldr posted:None? What warm up do you do with your present workout? I do about four sets of warm ups that ramp about 10% each to my working weight does anyone substitute any tricep exercises with close-grip presses? big fan of those. Qaz Kwaz fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2007 around 04:05 |
| # ? Jun 7, 2007 04:02 |
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In a higher rep/lower weight routine with a lot of volume, I don't really like warm up sets. They're unnecessary and just fatigue you earlier. Stretch well before and during your workout and you'll be fine and you'll save your energy for the actual lifts.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 04:07 |
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My warmup on upper body days involves doing a bunch of tricep pushdowns and face pulls with minibands (50-100 reps, you can use really light cables too) to warm up my elbows and shoulders. Then if I'm starting with a bench press I'll do the bar for 10-20 reps, 1-2 sets of 135 for 10-20 reps, 225 for 10, then drop the reps and go from there. Lower body days I'll do a bunch of bodyweight squats and box squats with the bar to get my knees nice and warm then start adding the weight. With deadlifts I'll just do a couple of warmup sets with 135 then add a plate each set until it starts getting heavy then I'll make smaller jumps. For secondary movements I typically do one medium-weight set to get adjusted and then go heavy. Like say after benching I want to do some DB shoulder presses, i'll do a set of 12-15 with the 50's or 60's then do my "work" sets with 80-90-100's or whatever. I always ramp the weight up each set ending on the heaviest if I'm able to. Sometimes I might go lighter and do drop sets after that depending on how I feel and what I'm trying to do. cavefish fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2007 around 04:14 |
| # ? Jun 7, 2007 04:10 |
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PettyFerrari posted:Thanks for the replies. Add it in on another day or hell every workout if your shoulders are lagging that badly. Just make sure not to go heavy every time with the additional presses.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 04:11 |
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Qaz Kwaz posted:I do about four sets of warm ups that ramp about 10% each to my working weight Just do whatever you feel comfortable with. Everyone is going to need to do something different to be happy with their workout. I only really stretch and warm up a bit before my workout on legs day, the other days I don't really need it, but other people are different. As far as close-grip presses go, I like them, but I wouldn't substitute any of the listed triceps exercises for them so much as just adding them in or maybe switching them with dips. The three triceps exercises listed are there because they hit the three heads of your triceps to build a good horseshoe.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 05:11 |
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PettyFerrari posted:On a note related to this thread: I'm doing the 5x5 right now and I want to add something to get some more shoulder growth, because they're definitely lagging. Right now I'm doing some rear delt raises on Monday and side and front raises on wednesday.What should I change/add and on what day(s)? I am lifting this straight from one of Thibedeau's (sp?) articles on T-nation, but try doing a muscle clean/push press combo. Basically, you take a weight that you figure out that you can do, and clean it to your shoulders, but instead of like a proper clean where you are using mostly your legs, you do a much less exaggerated jump, and use your upper body more, like an explosive upright row almost that you catch at the top. From there, push press it (shoulder press but with a little leg push at the beginning) and that is one rep. I haven't done it yet (I am going to soon, just read the article recently) but according to him, it is the Cadillac of shoulder development exercises. It takes some good form, but I believe it's not as hard to master as a proper power clean. edit: here is the article: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1578184 It's titled The Shoulder Training Bible, so for you it's a pretty drat good read.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 05:15 |
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Holy poo poo I did the chest day last night and I finally feel soreness in my chest for once. I guess my tris were just giving out too early on bench press, I had no idea this was the case but those flys really pushed my chest further. And I coulnd't even do more than 7 bodyweight dips (when I can usually do 15+) after the flys because they utterly killed my hands from the grip. I think it would be wiser to do the dips first so I can actually add some weight to them.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 14:04 |
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Keep the dips where they are and get the idea of "weight" out of your head. Weight is not the important thing here. After a bit they'll start going up anyway as you get better conditioned.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 19:24 |
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cavefish posted:4 sets leg extension 10-15reps (keep it light, this is just to get blood in the legs) LifeSpan-Void posted:However it is also widely known that adding leg extensions as your second movement is like dropping a nuclear bomb on your quads in terms of hitting fibres that a squat may not necessarily touch. Would I be better off doing squats first and then extensions? And what kind of rep range should I be aiming for?
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 19:47 |
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I'd keep the leg extensions first to serve as a warmup. You're still gonna hit the leg press after squatting.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 19:52 |
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cavefish posted:I'd keep the leg extensions first to serve as a warmup. You're still gonna hit the leg press after squatting. Ahh yea, that makes sense. Thanks! 
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 19:58 |
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cavefish posted:Keep the dips where they are and get the idea of "weight" out of your head. Weight is not the important thing here. After a bit they'll start going up anyway as you get better conditioned. The dips weren't killing my tris or chest it was the fact that I gripped the dumbbells so hard for the flys that I could barely keep myself supported on the bars. It was all in my hands, guess I either gripped too hard or I'll just get used to it.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2007 20:00 |
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I've got a question and this is probably the best place to ask it. When BB competitions are judged the shape of the muscle is obviously pretty important. Why is it that for things like biceps they are always looking for a "peak" in the muscle? Is there any basis for this or was it sort of just decided that a sharp peak in the muscle is better than a flatter top?
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| # ? Jun 8, 2007 00:17 |
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NoCleverName posted:I've got a question and this is probably the best place to ask it. When BB competitions are judged the shape of the muscle is obviously pretty important. Why is it that for things like biceps they are always looking for a "peak" in the muscle? Is there any basis for this or was it sort of just decided that a sharp peak in the muscle is better than a flatter top? As far as I can tell, the peaks are genetic. Consider these two pictures:   Both guys have around the same amount of muscle mass but the top one (Morton the Mole) has more definite "peaks". It's not fair because I don't have the peaks. I'm also weak and skinny so that could have something to do with it.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2007 00:44 |
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Pron on VHS posted:I am lifting this straight from one of Thibedeau's (sp?) articles on T-nation, but try doing a muscle clean/push press combo. Basically, you take a weight that you figure out that you can do, and clean it to your shoulders, but instead of like a proper clean where you are using mostly your legs, you do a much less exaggerated jump, and use your upper body more, like an explosive upright row almost that you catch at the top. From there, push press it (shoulder press but with a little leg push at the beginning) and that is one rep. So I think people should play it safe from the start and avoid the very few exercises where the risk vs reward just isn't worth it. Note that I have nothing against proper cleans or push presses (these are great fun). the good old military press is the king of shoulder exercises anyway... you want a workout similar to that one but better for strenght+mass? just do military presses after pre-exhausting yourself with upright rows. just my humble opinion...
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| # ? Jun 8, 2007 00:52 |
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Liface posted:As far as I can tell, the peaks are genetic. Consider these two pictures: I think you'll find the guy from the bottom pic has a crap posing technique. Morton is really trying to FLEX in his pic, note his wrists are cocked and forearms are really bunched. Believe me, making that effort makes a difference when you are trying to show off your goods. The criticism for both pics is that they're concentrating too much on making a bicep, which extends their triceps too much, and makes them look like they don't have any. Carnivean said on Nov 13, 2007 19:41: "You are still a sad, stupid piece of poo poo."
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| # ? Jun 8, 2007 01:52 |
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LifeSpan-Void posted:I think you'll find the guy from the bottom pic has a crap posing technique. Morton is really trying to FLEX in his pic, note his wrists are cocked and forearms are really bunched. Believe me, making that effort makes a difference when you are trying to show off your goods. The criticism for both pics is that they're concentrating too much on making a bicep, which extends their triceps too much, and makes them look like they don't have any. Would that be fixed by making more of a 90* angle with their arms?
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| # ? Jun 8, 2007 02:45 |
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NoCleverName posted:Would that be fixed by making more of a 90* angle with their arms? yes, coupled with an isometric contraction of the tricep to make it flare. Carnivean said on Nov 13, 2007 19:41: "You are still a sad, stupid piece of poo poo."
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| # ? Jun 8, 2007 03:00 |
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I have started this routine since the conception of this thread and I have only one thing to say: gently caress leg day!
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| # ? Jun 9, 2007 01:19 |
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LifeSpan-Void posted:I think you'll find the guy from the bottom pic has a crap posing technique. Morton is really trying to FLEX in his pic, note his wrists are cocked and forearms are really bunched. Believe me, making that effort makes a difference when you are trying to show off your goods. The criticism for both pics is that they're concentrating too much on making a bicep, which extends their triceps too much, and makes them look like they don't have any. I think this is right Some people don't realize your biceps can turn into a log or a tennis ball depending on how you twist your wrist / squeeze
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| # ? Jun 9, 2007 01:24 |
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norris posted:I think this is right Mine is a permanent tennis ball. Tennis ball on a stick.
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| # ? Jun 9, 2007 01:51 |
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Modus posted:I have started this routine since the conception of this thread and I have only one thing to say: gently caress leg day! Yeah I'd say its the most brutal workout in this routine. Don't worry though, after a few sessions you'll start adjusting to the workload and it won't be AS hard. Just make sure you're lifting hard and heavy enough to push yourself. It ain't supposed to be easy, if it was everyone would do it.
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| # ? Jun 9, 2007 02:00 |
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thanks for the advice, pals. I will definitely be completing this routine during this winter's BULK!cavefish posted:I always ramp the weight up each set ending on the heaviest if I'm able to. Sometimes I might go lighter and do drop sets after that depending on how I feel and what I'm trying to do. so you typically increase by what, 10% or so each set, ending on your x rep max? leg day looks fantastic, but I think I'll trim down the weight. my legs are like tree trunks already, and I'd like to restore the proportion to my upper body.
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| # ? Jun 9, 2007 18:07 |
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cavefish posted:
Ok, I'm finally done my ~2months on my last program, switching to this. Couple of things: I was recently diagnosed with a minor lumbar disk injury, and told not to do squats, deadlifts, straight-leg deads, and DEFINITELY no leg extensions (I had no idea, but my physio says leg extensions put a lot of stress on the lower back). Therefore, I've swapped the extensions in your program for step-ups, the squats with lunges, but I'm drawing a blank on another hamstring exercise (for on top of the leg curls) that doesnt put stress on the lower back. I might just have to drop that for the next couple months. Maybe light dumbell squats? By reversed Pushdown, you mean palms facing up right? And about how many sets/reps do you do for calves? I normally do 3x15 standing calf machine, 3x15 seated. And about six sets of abs?
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| # ? Jun 10, 2007 14:22 |
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ZombieJesus posted:Ok, I'm finally done my ~2months on my last program, switching to this. Hypers, Reverse Hypers, Standing Cable Leg Curls. There are quite a few out there, but how long did the doc say to not do anything working that lower back?
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| # ? Jun 10, 2007 18:17 |
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I've recently started working out again, using the 5x5 routine laid out in the FAQ here. My goal is mostly fitness workouts and weight loss, with no particular intent towards bulking up or pursuing serious bodybuilding. I'm 5'11" and currently weigh approximately 180lbs, but I'm hoping to lose about 10-15 of them between the lifting I've been doing and cardio. My question relates to the best way to increase the weight between my sets in order to show increases in my max weights. I've been doing 30 lb linear increases between squat and dead lift sets, starting at 135lbs and increasing up to 255lbs for the last 2 weeks. For Bench and military press I've been primarily attempting to do 20lb increases on each set, but tend to plateau much sooner then I do on the lower body lifts. I have high endurance for lower weights, and can rep 115 pounds all day, but I crap out on 135lbs after 3 reps or so. What would be the best method of increasing the weights on those upper body lifts? I want to make progress on increasing weights and pushing myself, is it better to go for big jumps and possibly crap out on reps, or to make lower gains between sets and get them all in? What is the ideal progression that will help me get past the plateau?
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 02:49 |
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I've been following the 5x5 for about 4 months now, and I'm getting great results. I'm going to be preparing for cross country season over the summer, though, which entails running ~50 miles per week. I don't have a whole lot going on this summer though, so I'll still have time to lift. What kind of modifications do I need to make in order to at least preserve the muscle mass I have now until the end of running season (December)?
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 02:54 |
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umlaut fetish posted:I've been following the 5x5 for about 4 months now, and I'm getting great results. I'm going to be preparing for cross country season over the summer, though, which entails running ~50 miles per week. I don't have a whole lot going on this summer though, so I'll still have time to lift. What kind of modifications do I need to make in order to at least preserve the muscle mass I have now until the end of running season (December)? Keep lifting, thats really it. If you can keep up that 5x5 at least twice per week and make sure you are getting enough calories, you will be fine.
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 02:55 |
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Thanks  I won't be able to use my school gym anymore, which scares me a little bit. If what I've heard is true, all the nice helpful football players will be gone, replaced by fat middle aged squat rack curlers.
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 04:49 |
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umlaut fetish posted:I've been following the 5x5 for about 4 months now, and I'm getting great results. I'm going to be preparing for cross country season over the summer, though, which entails running ~50 miles per week. I don't have a whole lot going on this summer though, so I'll still have time to lift. What kind of modifications do I need to make in order to at least preserve the muscle mass I have now until the end of running season (December)? I'd think your biggest concern would simply be eating enough. If you are running that much you are going to need a lot of calories to sustain the mass you have.
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 05:27 |
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The Werle posted:My question relates to the best way to increase the weight between my sets in order to show increases in my max weights. I've been doing 30 lb linear increases between squat and dead lift sets, starting at 135lbs and increasing up to 255lbs for the last 2 weeks. For Bench and military press I've been primarily attempting to do 20lb increases on each set, but tend to plateau much sooner then I do on the lower body lifts. I have high endurance for lower weights, and can rep 115 pounds all day, but I crap out on 135lbs after 3 reps or so. Give me an example of what your sets and numbers would look like. The biggest thing is to try to add some kind of weight each week. Obviously this isn't going to happen forever but you should be aiming for new PR's. Progression can be heavier weight, more reps, more sets, etc.
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 05:32 |
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cavefish posted:Give me an example of what your sets and numbers would look like. The biggest thing is to try to add some kind of weight each week. Obviously this isn't going to happen forever but you should be aiming for new PR's. Progression can be heavier weight, more reps, more sets, etc. Squats & Deadlifts - 5 reps at 135, 165, 195, 225, and 255 for the past couple of weeks Bench - 5 reps at 95, 115, as many as I can do at 135, and then the remaining two sets at 135 or less because I tend to crap out at that point. What I do for the military press and rows tends to follow the same lines as the bench, I try to do as much as I can for the last two sets, but its typically topped out at around 135-145lbs.
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 06:31 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 16:47 |
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The Werle posted:Squats & Deadlifts - 5 reps at 135, 165, 195, 225, and 255 for the past couple of weeks How is your military press the same as your bench? I find the military press to be far, far harder than the bench. My MP's a good 35 pounds lower than my bench.
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| # ? Jun 11, 2007 07:31 |
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