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You rarely see him do anything because he's an ancillary character. You rarely see Nobby doing stuff either. Or Sybil. Or Vetinari for that matter. Carrot is a parody of the "one true king returns" trope (no one said what he'd return as). His entire arc is rejecting kinghood and instead doing the right thing. That's it. It's pretty much finished by Guards and he just becomes part of the ensemble.
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Sep 13, 2016 15:38
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chiasaur11 posted:Uh, no. It's hosed up. Yeah, the part of my quote you bolded was meant to be sarcasm -- Angua and Carrot's relationship is more than a little suspect to me and it's another reason why I sort of wished she had just stayed in Uberwald at the end of The Fifth Elephant to help fix werewolf/dwarf/human/vampire relations. Speaking of Nobby, I have to say that he's one of the more well-developed characters in the Watch. Every book has him change a little, display a little more of his background (especially in Night Watch, which could bring a man to tears), until in the end he's finally settled down in a stable relationship with a goblin. He's a background character, but he's a solid background character and one of Pratchett's more notable successes.
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Sep 14, 2016 22:55
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Yo dudes, I'm getting my girlfriend into the Discworld novels, what do you guys think is a good starter? I was recomemnding something like Going Postal or Small Gods first, my dad thinks Equal Rites or Guards! Guards! would be better.
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Sep 14, 2016 23:31
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Thank you amazon I've been reading the books in chronological order of release and was getting irritated that the only copies of Eric they print are lovely stripped down versions with no illustrations. Here: https://smile.amazon.com/Eric-Novel-Discworld-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0062237330/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473892777&sr=8-1&keywords=pratchett+eric Don't get this garbage, follow my link below. Amazon sellers have brand new nice full color illustrated paperbacks for $9 including slow rear end shipping. https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Eric-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0575096292/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= It's a really nice glossy color paperback. I really wanted to read the book as intended
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Sep 14, 2016 23:39
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Flipswitch posted:Yo dudes, I'm getting my girlfriend into the Discworld novels, what do you guys think is a good starter? My vote would be either Mort or Guards! Guards!
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Sep 14, 2016 23:41
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Those are all good options, but I think Wyrd Sisters works better than Equal Rites. However from that list I definitely vote for Going Postal, it's the first Discworld I ever read and I have since read all of them. So I guess it worked. Alternatively, which of the following is your girlfriend angry about :
And pick the book accordingly.
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Sep 14, 2016 23:55
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Flipswitch posted:Yo dudes, I'm getting my girlfriend into the Discworld novels, what do you guys think is a good starter? I was recomemnding something like Going Postal or Small Gods first, my dad thinks Equal Rites or Guards! Guards! would be better. Mort, Guards Guards, Wyrd Sisters or Going Postal. I'd suggest avoiding Equal Rites for now, as it never really seemed to me like a good start point for the Witches stuff; it's a bit unfocused and doesn't have as good a grip on Granny, and without the other witches to play against she doesn't work as well anyway. Plus it's got little relevance to the rest of the series so you don't lose anything by leaving it for later.
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Sep 15, 2016 00:03
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Vimes ends up absorbing much of Carrot's basic personality so it's not surprising Carrot recedes pretty heavily.
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Sep 15, 2016 03:56
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Grimes and Granny Weatherwax are written in a sort of beyond narration first person. Quite often the plot revolves around them knowing who they are and what they have to do. They are very self aware. Vimes arc especially, he's effectively knowingly fighting his own destiny. He openly "thinks" about it. That's why he's so great. Carrot never has that.
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Sep 15, 2016 04:55
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Ben Soosneb posted:Grimes and Granny Weatherwax are written in a sort of beyond narration first person. Quite often the plot revolves around them knowing who they are and what they have to do. They are very self aware. Carrot is "fighting his own destiny" too. It's just that having a hardboiled voice for your direct self-aware person is more compelling than an innocent voice, so Vimes took over the narrative as Pratchett wrote Guards! Guards! and the rest of the Watch books. Not to mention that Carrot is pretty self-aware based on the ending of Men At Arms.
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Sep 15, 2016 05:13
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Brainiac Five posted:Carrot is "fighting his own destiny" too. It's just that having a hardboiled voice for your direct self-aware person is more compelling than an innocent voice, so Vimes took over the narrative as Pratchett wrote Guards! Guards! and the rest of the Watch books. Not to mention that Carrot is pretty self-aware based on the ending of Men At Arms. Defintaly carrot has an arc. But he doesn't have a "I know I'm the basis of this story first person" book like Vimes does. It's why Night's Watch is so good. It's Vimes living and narrating a story that has happened. Which is what he always does. But in Nights Watch he knows it. Granny comes pretty close to that in Capre Jugulum, but it's not nearly as good. Nothing wrong which Carrot, but his position does fall by the wayside as ankh-morpork modernises. Which sort of makes sense.
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Sep 15, 2016 05:29
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Flipswitch posted:Yo dudes, I'm getting my girlfriend into the Discworld novels, what do you guys think is a good starter? I was recomemnding something like Going Postal or Small Gods first, my dad thinks Equal Rites or Guards! Guards! would be better. Small Gods is a good starter because it doesn't require a lot of Discworld foreknowledge beyond what you can see in my avatar, but Guards! Guards! introduces us to Vimes, who is basically the most consistently well-written protagonist in the entire series. Going Postal is okay, but it's something you read when you've read all the really good Discworld books and need something to tide you over until you can read the good Discworld books again. Pyramids is another good starting book, with some of its high points making it almost as good a piece of theological/philosophical literature as Small Gods, and its low points some pretty chuckle-worthy geometry gags. Stay away from The Amazing Maurice, though. Aside from the Rat King -- who was actually pretty damned creepy for what it turned out to be -- the book is completely forgettable.
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Sep 15, 2016 06:35
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Bum the Sad posted:Amazon sellers have brand new nice full color illustrated paperbacks for $9 including slow rear end shipping. Haha, you weren't kidding about slow rear end shipping. I'll get my new book in a month. 
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Sep 15, 2016 08:46
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e X posted:Yeah, I agree. Carrot is one of the few things in Discworld that absolutely do not work for me. Isn't there one section of Guards Guards (might be another) where Carrot have a conversation with Vetinari that is full of undertones and where it is implicit that Carrot knows that he could usurp Vetinari but have no inclination to. There is also one episode in another book where Carrot quite cold-heartedly kills someone without showing the slightest remorse.
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Sep 15, 2016 09:06
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Cardiac posted:Isn't there one section of Guards Guards (might be another) where Carrot have a conversation with Vetinari that is full of undertones and where it is implicit that Carrot knows that he could usurp Vetinari but have no inclination to. He kills Cruces because Cruces knows. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 10:10
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Haha just kidding he's a fictional character and we have no way of knowing that because it's not mentioned in the text.
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Sep 15, 2016 10:12
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start with mort
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Sep 15, 2016 11:47
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bondetamp posted:Haha, you weren't kidding about slow rear end shipping. I'll get my new book in a month. Took me about 2 1/2 weeks.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:25
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Jerry Cotton posted:He kills Cruces because Cruces knows. Well, that and because he shot a bunch of people.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:33
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Oxxidation posted:Well, that and because he shot a bunch of people. Did you... did actually you read any of the books with Carrot in them?
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Sep 15, 2016 13:36
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Jerry Cotton posted:Did you... did actually you read any of the books with Carrot in them? Yes? It's the scene with that "good man/evil man" bit that everyone can't stop quoting. Cruces' knowledge of the succession was a factor, but the fact that he'd shot Vetinari, killed another copper and had Vimes under the barrel as well probably didn't help his chances either.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:51
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tooterfish posted:You rarely see him do anything because he's an ancillary character. You rarely see Nobby doing stuff either. Or Sybil. Or Vetinari for that matter. I know what he is, I just don't think Prachett pulled it off very well.
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Sep 15, 2016 14:18
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e X posted:I know what he is, I just don't think Prachett pulled it off very well. I imagine he had plans for Carrot.
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Sep 15, 2016 14:39
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SeanBeansShako posted:. He did. He also freely admitted that most of those plans got thrown out because it turns out that Vimes was a far more interesting character to write.
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Sep 18, 2016 23:59
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Oxxidation posted:Yes? It's the scene with that "good man/evil man" bit that everyone can't stop quoting. Cruces' knowledge of the succession was a factor, but the fact that he'd shot Vetinari, killed another copper and had Vimes under the barrel as well probably didn't help his chances either. Yeah, but Carrot is a pretty big advocate of due process and all that poo poo, generally. Tries to read the golem king his rights in Feet of Clay. Tries to bring Carcer in alive in Night Watch. All that kind of stuff. Even squares up to fight Wolfgang by Marquis of Queensbury rules. Lots of people do horrible poo poo, and they all come in alive. The guy making the poisoned candles who accidentally kills the old lady and the baby, he comes in alive. Cruces, on the other hand, gets pinned to the wall like a butterfly. No attempt to capture him, nothing. It's the only time in the series that I can recall where Carrot just straight up kills a motherfucker, and the person he killed was somebody he could have taken in alive pretty easily. Cruces died because he knew, basically.
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Sep 19, 2016 01:19
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Khizan posted:Yeah, but Carrot is a pretty big advocate of due process and all that poo poo, generally. Tries to read the golem king his rights in Feet of Clay. Tries to bring Carcer in alive in Night Watch. All that kind of stuff. Even squares up to fight Wolfgang by Marquis of Queensbury rules. Lots of people do horrible poo poo, and they all come in alive. The guy making the poisoned candles who accidentally kills the old lady and the baby, he comes in alive. Plenty of people know. Vimes knows. Vetinari knows. Hell, half the drat city knows. He died because the Gonne had already destroyed him and there was nothing sane or human left of the man.
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Sep 19, 2016 03:09
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To be fair, I think the "secret heir of Ankh-Morpork" thing changed from "possible plotline" to "running gag" and Carrot became (slightly) better for it. And Vimes is an interesting character because despite living almost literally next door to the largest concentration of magical power and wisdom in the known world, he insists on sticking to the rules. Magic's a living, dangerous thing that'll rise up and bite you in the rear end the moment you take it for granted. Vimes would trust his notebook and cardboard soles over some spell cast by a wizard whose ties to sanity and the laws of physics are tenuous at the best. I like how as the series progresses otherworldly things begin to fade. Indeed, in Raising Steam the wizards and Sweeper only had token appearances -- appearances which I personally believe should have been cut out since they're pretty obvious notes from Pratchett to tell us, "Yes, these characters still exist, and they, too, are completely okay with non-magical, non-quantum engineering."
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Sep 19, 2016 04:03
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Discworld magic is dangerous though, there's a reason why it isn't used much. From Going Postal:quote:Any ignorant fool can fail to turn someone else into a frog. You have to be clever to refrain from doing it when you knew how easy it was. There were places in the world commemorating those times when wizards hadn't been quite as clever as that, and on many of them the grass would never grow again.
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Sep 19, 2016 05:18
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Khizan posted:Yeah, but Carrot is a pretty big advocate of due process and all that poo poo, generally. Tries to read the golem king his rights in Feet of Clay. Tries to bring Carcer in alive in Night Watch. All that kind of stuff. Even squares up to fight Wolfgang by Marquis of Queensbury rules. Lots of people do horrible poo poo, and they all come in alive. The guy making the poisoned candles who accidentally kills the old lady and the baby, he comes in alive. The Golem King, Carcer, Wolfgang, and Dragon King of Arms (the poison candle guy) also didn't have a loving gun to Vimes' head when Carrot was trying to arrest them.
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Sep 19, 2016 05:55
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Khizan posted:Marquis of Queensbury 
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Sep 19, 2016 08:43
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Cardiac posted:Isn't there one section of Guards Guards (might be another) where Carrot have a conversation with Vetinari that is full of undertones and where it is implicit that Carrot knows that he could usurp Vetinari but have no inclination to. I'm not sure if it's what you're referring to but at the end of Men at Arms Carrot kills someone, although it was in self defense. The fact that he kills someone isn't really remarkable though, it's the way he kills them. E: I've been reading through the books again and I still love the relationship between Ridcully and the Bursar. The Bursar is probably one of the more inspired secondary characters, particularly as Pratchett managed to convey slapstick in written form which is quite hard to do. I especially like the times when he is so rigid they can literally use him as a bridge/crowbar Rush Limbo fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 09:11
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I really liked Carrot as a bumbling character in Guards! Guards! who got into actual peril from being so good-natured and naive in a place that is so not. His transition to adored guy who kind of always succeeds at everything and is specifically not stupid got a bit stale for me. I guess some of that strong and capable but simple aspect got carried over to Detritus, but with less of the good-natured and trusting side that made him SO endearing. Agreed that him and Angua was always a bit of an odd coupling. Konstantin posted:Discworld magic is dangerous though, there's a reason why it isn't used much. From Going Postal:
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Sep 19, 2016 09:49
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Screaming Idiot posted:I like how as the series progresses otherworldly things begin to fade. Indeed, in Raising Steam the wizards and Sweeper only had token appearances -- appearances which I personally believe should have been cut out since they're pretty obvious notes from Pratchett to tell us, "Yes, these characters still exist, and they, too, are completely okay with non-magical, non-quantum engineering."
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Sep 20, 2016 19:07
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I gave my brother Guards Guards for his birthday. Last week he came for a visit and wanted another Pratchett dose so I borrowed him my copy of Mort. I think I have him hooked. If not then a dose of Small Gods should do it.
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Sep 21, 2016 14:59
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VagueRant posted:I really liked Carrot as a bumbling character in Guards! Guards! who got into actual peril from being so good-natured and naive in a place that is so not. His transition to adored guy who kind of always succeeds at everything and is specifically not stupid got a bit stale for me. I guess some of that strong and capable but simple aspect got carried over to Detritus, but with less of the good-natured and trusting side that made him SO endearing I wish he'd done more with Carrot and Vimes. My favorite Carrot moment is in The Fifth Elephant where Vimes was thinking about the way that Carrot's destiny warps the world around him, and wondering how he'd stand up to it if he had to. I wish that he had had to.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:26
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Didn't he sort of do that in the Last Hero? The Divine Right of Kings sort of says that Kings are favoured by the gods and he certainly was when he squared up against the entire silver horde and won.
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Sep 21, 2016 21:00
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Ddraig posted:Didn't he sort of do that in the Last Hero? The Divine Right of Kings sort of says that Kings are favoured by the gods and he certainly was when he squared up against the entire silver horde and won.
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Sep 22, 2016 20:08
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Yeah but Carrot basically saved the world. If that isn't destiny it's probably the next best thing.
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Sep 23, 2016 07:59
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Ddraig posted:Yeah but Carrot basically saved the world. If that isn't destiny it's probably the next best thing. Half the characters have saved the world at least once.
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Sep 23, 2016 08:44
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Started the missus on Going Postal, it was the only paperback I could find in a quick minute of looking and after one morning she's loving it already.
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Sep 23, 2016 12:40
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