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BexGu posted:PS Moist, where did you find the art work for your avatar? I'm not Moist (ooer, Missus, etc) but I'll chip in anyway. His avatar is taken from the cover of the UK print of Making Money. Which leads to a question that I've asked before, but for which I've never had an answer: why is the cover-art for US editions of Pratchett's books so god-awfully poo poo compared to the UK versions? Edit: A case in point... The UK cover art is a very cool homage to Rembrandt's painting 
magimix fucked around with this message at Nov 2, 2007 around 23:16 |
| # ¿ Nov 2, 2007 23:07 |
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| # ¿ May 18, 2013 17:09 |
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Loutre posted:God drat, I just finished Making Money. For pure entertainment, I don't think I've ever liked a Discworld novel that much - totally awesome. For an author as prolific as he is, he expertly (IMO, of course) avoids getting stuck in a rut. Existing characters meaningfully change over time, and new characters get introduced. Going Postal, in particular was unlike the darker Discworld books that preceeded it - nothing short of an Ealing-style caper, with hijinks, rogues and lovable rascals. Clearly Pratchett wanted to return to something lighter in tone, but felt he couldn't do this with any of his existing characters. Good for him, because Moist von Liwig has very quickly become one of my favourite Discworld characters (primarily I'm a Vimes fan, and regularly read the 'guards' books back to back). Edit: Actually, I really, really like how the different 'tracks' of Discworld books (guards books, witches books, MvL, etc) aren't just different with respect to focus on different characters, but are stylistically different in presentation. magimix fucked around with this message at Nov 10, 2007 around 16:32 |
| # ¿ Nov 10, 2007 16:29 |
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Nilbop posted:I'm pretty sure The Watch are his favourite group and he's just going to keep banging them out until his head explodes. And I hope that cranial explosion is a long time coming, because the 'Guards' books are by far my favourite ones 
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| # ¿ Nov 26, 2007 11:45 |
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Moist von Lipwig posted:I had to think about it, but I agree, the Guard books are probably the best, although the Lipwig stories are my personal favourites < The Lipwig stories are your most favoured? You don't say!  I do agree with you, though; Lipwig is a fun and interesting character, and he works well with 'big caper' type stories, adding a new levity to the Discworld that tempers the darkness of some of the other recent books.I don't criticise the darkness evident in some of the books, incidentally; I very much appreciate it. But it is also nice to have that balanced against something lighter in tone.
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| # ¿ Nov 27, 2007 10:23 |
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> they seem like up-and-comers to me.
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Man of Straw posted:Did anyone else get the impression that Thud was written expressly to sell board game and picture book tie-ins? I didn't get that feeling from it at all - not even slightly. Thud came out shortly after the 2005 London Tube bombings, and when I first read it much in the book struck close to home, but not board games or picture books
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| # ¿ Nov 27, 2007 22:05 |
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Spiny Norman posted:The golems always get me. The part from Feet of Clay with Dorfl's last words, when dying, WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN, gets me every drat time. Feet of Clay really is one of his best philosophical works - you can see Pratchett's humanism and sense of social responsibility really show through there. And I really liked how he linked the rejection of the idea of kings with the rejection of the idea of, well, God. With you 100% on that one; fantastic stuff. I also liked the clever foreshadowing when Vimes reads Old Stoneface's journal. Spoilered because, well, it foreshadows something... In the fires of struggle we shall bake new men, who will not heed the old lies One of the things that struck me about the Golems in the Discworld books is the terrible fates of those that have not been given to themselves. The people regard the Golems as nothing more than machines. But they are much more than that; not only sentient, but *sapient* also. The words in their head give them life initially, but they are also chains that shackle them. The Golems that have died in the books clearly *welcomed* death, because at last they were truly free.
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| # ¿ Dec 28, 2007 16:07 |
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thrakkorzog posted:The thing is that the those in power weren't in favor of the war, it was the common people agitating for a fight. Vetinari & Vimes, the two most powerful figures in AM politics, were against the war. The rabble roused itself, and all without the benefit of a free press. Well, there was high-level agitation, just not on the AM side. One aspect of the book that always seems topical is that, if you recall, the Klatchian leader was seeking to engineer a war with Ankh-Morpork - the war would, in principle, be easy to win and would also be a political tool with which he could unite the Klatchian hegemony against a common enemy. It would cement that leader's power, and in victory increase his popularity. Such an endeavour would also send a message to the other nations around the Circle Sea. Vetinari's resolution to the affair was doubly effective. He didn't just diffuse the war by surrender with appropriate conditions; when Leshp sank it was a tremendous loss of face for the Klatchian leader - his credibility completely undermined, he was forced to step down. Edit: None of that in any way counters what you say, of course - it was still the 'man on the street', in all his conservative, nationalistic, mobbish glory, that provided the momentum to keep the crisis escalating. magimix fucked around with this message at Jan 15, 2008 around 17:24 |
| # ¿ Jan 15, 2008 10:13 |
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The Wizards are kind of played out now, though. Things have changed too much for the Wizards to effectively play a large part in future stories, especially as protagonists, by and large.
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| # ¿ Feb 10, 2008 21:02 |
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LooseChanj posted:I think where Vetinari is concerned, *everyone* is protoge material. But my main logic here is that Vimes would be so reluctant a politician he'd actually be pretty good at it. Sort of the inverse of Douglas Adams "anyone who wants power shouldn't be allowed to have it". Plus he's the kind of bastard who won't be able to retire and will end up working till the day he dies. I have a somewhat different take. I think he'd get too frustrated with the pragmatic, back-stabbing reality of being leader of the city. Vimes and von Lipwig both have their parts to play, but they need to be in the right role. Vimes is ideally positioned, and I think he'd be happier, and more effective, in his current role, than as Patrician. von Lipwig's ability to pull the wool over peoples eyes, and to influence them so artfully that even when they know they are being played they often don't mind, seems ever more valuable in the increasingly 'open' (in terms of publicity, information exchange, and so forth) society in the city. If Vimes were Patrician, can you imagine the continual poo poo-storms there would be between him and, for example, the free press? Edit: I'm not saying he would be a *bad* leader, as such - he'd be a principled leader, a strong, consistent one, but right here and now (if you will) he is not the right man for the job - he isn't a *politician*, and the fact is the city does need a good politician (in addition to other qualities) in charge. von Lipwig is the better fit. magimix fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2008 around 15:46 |
| # ¿ Jun 9, 2008 15:42 |
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LooseChanj posted:Yes, and they're only a further confirmation that he's the right man for the job, at least in terms of us readers. Oh, I totally agree it would make for excellent reading But as you know, my edit was written as if we were two members of, say, the Assassin's guild, discussing the future governance of the city, over Port and Cigars  
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| # ¿ Jun 9, 2008 15:59 |
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Your brief summary is a timely reminder to get this book myself (order duly placed). While back in the day it was humour that drew me to Pratchett's books, its their surprising depth[1] that keeps me coming back. As such, I look forward to reading Nation. [1] Okay, they aren't all 'deep' but you know what I mean.
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| # ¿ Sep 10, 2008 09:01 |
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Quite the consensus here! While Making Money grew on me over time, it's definitely not as good as Going Postal. A shame really, because I really like the character Moist von Lipwig, and the banking/finance ideas behind the story were good, and there were many fun elements therein. But in execution it didn't seem to hold together so well.
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| # ¿ Jan 8, 2009 08:26 |
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Nilbop posted:It'd be very hard to turn the books into a proper movie anyway. The four-hour long miniseries struggle to cut everything down to fit in, and a lot of the best lines are thought, not spoken. The Moist books (ooer missus, etc) I think are well suited for screen adaptation because they are very reminiscant of 'Ealing Comedy' style capers. Edit: Now I think on it, the 'Ealing' thing comes across *really* strongly for me when I read "Going Postal" in particular. I can almost hear appropriate music playing in my head, and envisage Alec Guinness making an appearance as one of the characters. As for Night Watch, or the 'Guards' books in general... I sometimes imagine them being made into a 'no expense spared' serial, so that you can cover all the characters arcs without too much sacrifice, with each book being adapted into season of episodes. *sigh*  One thing you would run into is the changing tone of the Guards books. "Guards! Guards!" was very much of the 'homage to fantasy-tropes' era of Discworld books, whereas Night Watch and Thud, while still having comedic elements, are way darker. As such, my imaginary adaptation takes its tonal cues from the more recent books. magimix fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2009 around 15:40 |
| # ¿ Feb 13, 2009 15:37 |
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Test Pattern posted:There's definitely a generational change coming to the Disc, whether or not he'll actually write it. As Susan goes on, she's becoming more and more accepting of her duties; Vimes is definitely getting Too Old For This poo poo (though if anyone's being lined up for Watch Commissioner, I'd say it's Angua, not Carrot); Esme is explicitly the Undefeated Heavyweight Champion of the Disc, with Tiffany lined up to (one day, not soon, but One Day) be the Hag o' Hags; Ponder has his own, super-important and super-hilarious, department; and, of course, Moist is Moist. I can get behind this. I've had similar thoughts too, but only with respect to Vetinari and Vimes, as I've mostly read (and re-read, over and over) the 'Watch' and 'Moist' books of late. In particular I agree with your take on Angua. I couldn't help but get the impression in recent 'Watch' books that of all competent officers in the Watch, Angua is closest to Vimes. Likewise, Vetinari is definitely grooming Moist. For an eventual leadership role? Well Vetinari knows he won't be around forever, and the Discworld is changing, and Ankh-Morpork in particular thrives. Vetinari may feel that this 'new Ankh-Morpork' would benefit from a leader who can still manipulate people at need, but in a different manner than Vetinari traditionally has. But rather than any 'big bang' approach, where suddenly Moist is the patrician, its like Moist is being 'phased in' slowly. I can almost imagine over time more and more departments of the State being assigned to him, until he almost has a kind of de-facto leadership role (at least from the public's perspective), with Vetinari still exerting influence on Moist behind the scenes.
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| # ¿ Apr 1, 2009 07:42 |
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John Dough posted:I'm just now reading Interesting Times, and it appears to me that Rowan Atkinson could play Rincewind very well, especially since he's basically the same character as Blackadder, except with slightly more insight and even less aspirations. The cowardice and the acceptance that fate is loving him over anyway is already there. You know what? I think thats a really good fit. Rowan Atkinson has the kind of super-expressive face, and talent for physical comedy (in addition to his other comedic talents), that'd really suit the character of Rincewind.
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| # ¿ Oct 15, 2009 16:53 |
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Pope Guilty posted:It's also possible that Vetinari is preparing the City to not need a single ruler. I tend to take the position that Vetinari is definitely 'grooming' Moist for eventual leadership (or at least ever more significant roles in the governance of city affairs), as Moist exemplifies many of the skills that the city needs from its leaders (the ability to deceive and manipulate people either without them realising, or inducing them to accept this manipulation in good humour) with the *added* bonus that Moist may be a genuinely popular figure, whereas Vetinari is mostly tolerated or feared (albeit respected as well). Vetinari, being a genuinely dedicated servant of the city, would absolutely make sure he was replaced at the right time, by the right person, if it were good for the city. It really does feel like a 'new age' is dawning for the city[1]; its various institutions are becoming more influential not just inside the city limits, but beyond as well. The Watch is respected and copied by other communities. The Post Office will continue to extend its reach. 'The City' (through Vetinari, or his representatives) has been taking a more explicitly clear role in the affairs of other cities and nations. And much more besides. While I won't go so far as to claim Pratchett has an 'arc' planned out for the city, I don't think anyone could credibly deny that he's been developing the city at least as strongly as his core characters. [1] Seriously. AM is such a key feature in recent books, and Pratchett has been pretty consistent in the way that things are developing. Stuff that happens in one book remain also in following books.
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| # ¿ Nov 18, 2009 08:56 |
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Izz posted:They are doing Small Gods now. Part 1 is on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...Gods_Episode_1/ I must admit, I've never listened to an audio dramatisation of a book before. This is *brilliant*. Its totally loving awesome. Edit: drat. This is really, *really* good. Edit: Of course, it helps that 'Small Gods' is one of Pratchett's very best works. The Discworld came of age. Rather than being a simple Fantasy pastiche that was ball-bouncily funny, we got a deconstruction of faith and religion... that was also ball bouncily funny. Edit: I'm listening to the "Guards! Guards!" dramatisation now. Carrot is Welsh[1] and Dibbler is Irish, and its totally baking my noodle  [1] Llamedos is Welsh (at least, that is the impression I got), but Carrot is from Copperhead, is he not? magimix fucked around with this message at Jan 24, 2010 around 00:46 |
| # ¿ Jan 23, 2010 22:28 |
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Vetinari posted:Yeah, I always thought that part was slightly odd, until I realized it was Pratchett mocking fanfiction sex fantasies since nothing actually happens. It did amuse me that Pratchett hung a lantern on that one too, what with Sally's 'paying audience' quip. Actually, now I think on it, for all that it covered some meaty themes (that were unneringly topical, as the book came out shortly after the London tube bombings), there was some real fruity humour too. Colon's 'minge drinking' malapropism was especially
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| # ¿ Jan 26, 2010 15:34 |
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Irisi posted:Watched this last night & by the end of it I was all tearful. Tony Robinson did a great job of reading the speech, but it was upsetting to realise that Terry couldn't do it himself. Thats a horrible thing to read just before I'm about to read some more of Jingo before lights-out 
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| # ¿ Feb 2, 2010 22:20 |
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SaintFu posted:Sky has a trailer up for Going Postal: Man, that trailer is loving brilliant. Going Postal always had that 'grand caper' sensibility about it, and that trailer really (for me at least) captures the spirit of things.
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| # ¿ Apr 1, 2010 20:44 |
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thebardyspoon posted:I think Vimes might die in Snuff, when Terry announced that as the new Watch book he also said "now remember Snuff has two meanings". First is that powder poo poo you snort and the second is too snuff it or die. Someone is going to die, probably an established character and we will cry. Maybe it'll be Pratchett's take on the Nic Cage masterpiece 8mm? 
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| # ¿ Aug 11, 2010 11:40 |
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Hedrigall posted:How good are the Kindle editions? Did they gently caress up the formatting or is it all good? I'm thinking specifically of footnotes. Are they there on the same screen where they should be, or do I have to keep flipping forward pages (or god forbid, to the end of the book) to read them? I bought a Kindle the other day, and 'christened' it by buying my favourite Discworld books[1], plus I Shall Wear Midnight. From what I've seen having read three of them, the formatting is fine. In terms of footnotes, what they do is have the footnote number as a hyperlink. You navigate to, and click on, the link and it takes you to the footnote text. Thereafter, just hit the Back button to return to where you were. Seems an elegant enough solution. [1] Guards! Guards! Men at Arms Feet of Clay Jingo The Fifth Elephant Night Watch Thud! (I'm sure there is kind kind of pattern or theme here) ...and Small Gods
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| # ¿ Feb 4, 2011 09:02 |
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Hedrigall posted:Awesome, I will try it with Small Gods An excellent choice, Sir. For me, Small Gods was the first Discworld book that moved decisively beyond the fantasy-pastiche roots of the franchise. For sure, its a funny book, but its sharp wit is also used for an exploration, and deconstruction of, religious faith and practice.
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| # ¿ Feb 4, 2011 09:40 |
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thebardyspoon posted:Maybe I'm not remembering it but hasn't there not been any of the Carrot/Angua stuff since Feet of Clay? There was a fair bit of it in The Fifth Elephant too. All in all, Carrot never really had anywhere to go as a character after the first couple of books. Arguably, the same could be said for Angua, but in the most recent 'guards' books, it struck me that she was becoming closely aligned with Vimes - I just got the sense that in interpersonal terms, Angua is... closer to Vimes than Carrot is - more of a trusted confidant.
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| # ¿ Feb 8, 2011 19:58 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:Oh excellent, I was hoping we'd get another TV adaption of his work this year. Talking of adaptations... Was finally able to catch the recent adaptation of Going Postal recently. As is often the case with a much liked work, it was great in some areas, annoyingly deficient in others. But *drat* if casting Charles Dance as Vetinari wasn't a masterstroke. Never would have pegged him for the role myself, but he seriously knocked it out the park. The definitive Vetinari. I'm quite certain that from now on, when reading the books, it'll be Charles Dance's portrayal I see and hear for that character.
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| # ¿ Mar 10, 2011 17:57 |
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Nilbop posted:I mean he's wearing a loving eyepatch for gently caress's sake! And the show hosed up the entire point behind the eyepatch by making him actually blind in one eye in the final scene. Nothing will ever top the 'See, see, its your fault she started smoking!  ' scene  That said, on a different tangent, the scene where Mr Pump chews out Moist over the impact of his many crimes was spot on.
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| # ¿ Mar 10, 2011 20:52 |
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Flatscan posted:BURSAR! It would not surprise me in any way at all if Terry Pratchett actually modelled Ridcully on Brian Blessed in the first place
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| # ¿ Mar 18, 2011 15:09 |
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wheatpuppy posted:In previous books his character sort of unfolded gradually; at first Vimes saw him just as a stuffy servant which made him uncomfortable because it emphasized Vimes' own rank (violating his "shakily egalitarian" view of his own place in the world). Then we discover bits and pieces about his background and violent tendencies, until in this book he apparently feels free to just be himself unreservedly. I chose to see it as a mark of how he and Vimes have become actual friends as well as servant/master. There is a big difference in their relationship between this book and Thud!, certainly. For my part, I think on the 4-year gap between Snuff and Thud!, as well as the events of Thud! itself (more significantly). It wasn't a stretch for me to think that in the intervening time the Master/Butler dynamic became almost a ritualistic thing. Gotta keep up appearances and all that. But between the two of them alone, with everything they have been through, and their sense of shared past... I can buy the more open relationship.
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| # ¿ Oct 15, 2011 19:38 |
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VanSandman posted:Is there any official word on Carrot and Angua's relationship? Are they married or do they simply have an understanding or what? I'm sure if they'd gotten married, it would have been mentioned in one of the books. I'll assume in the meantime that they're still together, and have been together long enough that Ankh-morpork's take on common law marriage statutes apply 
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| # ¿ Oct 27, 2011 07:28 |
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Nowhere Girl posted:I tried working that out myself and this is what I got: I agree with those numbers. To my mind, the only wrinkle is that in G!G! there is a reference to Vimes having been in the guards for ten years. When I read G!G!, I mentally REGEX that to 20 years because it fits better.
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| # ¿ Nov 5, 2011 17:49 |
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| # ¿ May 18, 2013 17:09 |
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah that bit always bugged me. I mean it's something I could see Cheery doing, but definitely not Angua. Even if I disliked that scene (which I don't), it'd get a pass for setting up one of the bluest jokes I can recall in any of the books (Fred Colon's 'minge drinking' malapropism).
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| # ¿ Apr 21, 2012 14:59 |
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