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I was wandering around my "local" gunstore today with a mind towards purchasing a shotgun for clays/quail/rounding out my firearm collection. Then it occurred to me: I don't know fuckall about shotguns. Milsurp rifles, pistols, sure. Shotties? A tube for firing clouds of lead death, or so much more? All I really know is that they come in various actions, and that gauges go from .410 (tiny) to 12 gauge (average) to 4 (flock hunting from a boat). Also, people go on about full choke, semi-full, spherical choke, etc. Due to aesthetics and a fantasy of wanting to be Elmer Fudd, I kind of want a side by side double barrelled, and I think I'll get the most mileage out of a 12 gauge. So why are break-actions so damned expensive? I saw a bunch of Berettas for 1000+, but then I found a Stoeger for 450. What am I getting for my price differential? Should I abandon this nonsense and go for a vanilla pump-action or semi? So yeah, what should I get as a sporting shotty? So that this isn't just another "HAY TFR WHAT DO I THROW BUX AT" thread, maybe we can make this a shotty megathread? Thanks guys.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 04:23 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 10:31 |
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If you want to spend a low amount of money on an avian death shotgun, the Spartans, but Remington seem to be like the best deal for the money.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 04:52 |
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If you want a classy shotgun, there are some quite nice O/U as well, although I don't know if they are cheaper then a side-by-side. Some simple durr things I've learned: 1. On the receiver on pumps (generally?) there is an unmarked button, really a flat piece of metal, that allows you to rack the slide continually without having to pull the trigger in between. 2. Most shotguns sold in America are sold with a mag-tube block of some sort, say a wooden dowel, that makes the shotgun legal for most types of hunting (Generally 3 rounds total, 2+1 seems to be the number.). So when you go to load up your HD Mossberg 500A and wonder why you can only get 2 shells in...well that's why.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 05:15 |
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Barrel Length: Barrels can range from 18" to whatever the hell you want. Let's break it down ~18-22"": D-FENCE; The ball's in your court, baby. Close quarters combat never looked so sexy. Get yourself a nice shorty Mossberg 500, particularly a "face poker" and you've got everything you need to defend freedom. Did I mention STRENGTH and HONOR. 24-26": A great upland game gun. Short barrels tend to swing faster, allowing faster target acquisition on those god forsaken quail. Smaller barrels will run you lighter too, allowing for a much more pleasant day hike when hunting Pheasant, Quail, Dove, and other midland game that flies fast and comes in close. A lot of people tend to hunting turkey with #4 Buckshot out of 24" barrels. Personally, I recommend a slightly longer barrel that will hold tighter patterns for increased vital shots in the neck, but you'll see a lot of these tactical turkey models running you in the 24 - 26" range For sporting clays, I highly recommend the longer 26". ~26-28": A waterfowler's wet dream. While most duck hunting and Goose hunting is done from a blind, or other stationary location, a longer barrel really helps to reach out their. Geese tend to fly higher, and a nice 28 incher will really throw some pellets in good groups out to 50 and 60 yards, and even beyond with good chokes (Briley). While most ducks are seen and called in, a fast swinging gun is not nessacary, since dis murder's gettin' all pre-meditated. ~30+": oh god you just love you're Goose slaying 3 1/2" magnum loads don't you. You dirty whore you. Knock em' dead hot shot, but don't complain to me when you're amazonia shotgun weighs you down in the field all day. Action: Double Barrel (Hammer or Hammerless SxS and O/Us): Increased reliability. Double barrels typically run you a little more because of the increased amount of metal and workmanship to make another barrel. Beretta makes phenomenal Over Unders. Get one, use it, take care of it, and it's value will hardly decrease. I've bought and sold a 686 simply to turn it around and make a $350 profit, because I know the market demands these. Disadvantages include a limited 2 round capacity, unless you've got some super shotgun that you need to be telling us about. Pump: Reliable, and you looked like a badass when you cocked it one handed smoking a cigar wearing Raybands in 1983. Remington 870's and Mossberg 835s are ideal for hunting. Smooth actions and accurate shooters. Pumps can handle the low recoil stuff. Recoil is much softer than a Double Barrel as more gas, powder and percussion escaped and not just the end of the barrel. Disadvantages include not being able to shoot as quickly as a semi or double barrel. Semis: Fast shooters, light on the recoil. Great for both home defense and hunting, the semis really have held their own. Gas operated shotguns such as Remington 1100s will always out shoot Inertia/Recoil driven shotguns, but at the same time have slightly more maintanence required.. Benelli really holds the market with extremely well made semis in both the hunting and tactical market. A big disadvantage includes burning a giant loving hole in your wallet the size of ph4lcons mother's vagina and the inability for SOME semis to cycle low recoil loads. If you come across a Browning A-5, use it and don't second guess me you moron. Marouku or Belgian, they are both great, but the Belgians are made slightly better and are more valuable. Chokes: I'm tired someone else write about chokes. My personal recommendations: Home Defense: Mossberg 500A (Pump), Remington 1100 Green Tactical (Semi) Midland Game/Duck Hunting: Remington 870 Wingmaster (Pump), Benelli Supernova (Semi) or a Beretta 3901, Beretta 686 Onyx (O/U) Turkey: Mossberg 935 Magnum (Pump) Krauts: Winchester M97 OH WILL SOMEONE COVER GAUGES TOO PLEASE THANKS ohhhlethal fucked around with this message at Dec 10, 2007 around 05:46 |
| # ? Dec 10, 2007 05:24 |
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I can only say, god I love my Remington 870 20".
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 05:36 |
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A choke is basically a constriction of the barrel towards the muzzle end. The idea is that different chokes provide close patterns at further ranges - you'll have more pellets in the same area with a tight choke at 50 yards than you would with a less constrictive one. Most HD shotguns have a "cylinder bore" choke, essentially no choke for maximum spread. There are a number of different choke sizes, there is a really good article summarizing them here I'm aware of three ways to choke a shotgun barrel. Interchangeable choke tubes - the barrel is threaded and comes with a little wrench to insert different choke tubes. I think this is the most common now. Adjustable choke - looks like some sort of muzzle break or other device sticking out the end of the barrel, you turn it to the choke you want. Fixed choke - the barrel is permanently tapered to that choke size, no more no less. Both barrels for my 1100 are this way but barrels are ridiculously easy to swap out and not terribly expensive.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 05:45 |
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ohhhlethal posted:If you come across a Browning A-5, use it and don't second guess me you moron. Marouku or Belgian, they are both great, but the Belgians are made slightly better and are more valuable. 
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 05:45 |
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Mossberg's are awful, get a Remington. For semi-autos, it seems Benellis are what all the 'winners' shoot, but I sure do like my FN SLP. Stoeger is great for the price, but if you want something with automatic ejectors, the Ruger Red Label is half decent, if you can get over the fact that it is made by Ruger. I inherited one in 20ga a few years back and it is keen for blasting clays.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 07:11 |
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Do HD shotguns really have more choke for maximum spread? Why do you want a bigass pattern for only 9 pellets? I always assumed the didn't put chokes on because you'll either be shooting at distances such that spread is negligible or shooting slugs.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 08:30 |
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BaronW posted:Do HD shotguns really have more choke for maximum spread? Why do you want a bigass pattern for only 9 pellets? at killing people ranges for a shotgun (1-20m, as compared to 30m+ for sportsmen ranges), maximum spread means wide area of effect, thus increasing the chances of hitting the central nervous system, major veins or arteries, and large blood-bearing organs, thus increasing the odds of a fast take-down. a super tight group would not only be overkill, but would impede a speedy kill as there isn't any single vital part of the human body that will be destroyed by 8 pellets of 00 buck that won't be destroyed by eight
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 08:54 |
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TenementFunster posted:they have minimal choke for maximum spread. Er yeah, I meant minimal. Still, at HD ranges is there much difference between cylinder and modified with 00 Buck? I guess it would vary by the load and gun.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 09:34 |
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TheReverend posted:If you want to spend a low amount of money on an avian death shotgun, the Spartans, but Remington seem to be like the best deal for the money. I am very, very happy with my Spartan O/U. As for the covering of gauges: Technically, shotgun gauge is defined as: 1lb=X number of lead balls, each being Y in diameter, with X being the gauge of the gun and Y being the bore diameter. 12 gauge is appx. .73 caliber, 20 gauge is appx. .62 caliber, 28 gauge is appx. .55 caliber. .410 bore, the smallest common size, is, well, .41 caliber, that being appx. 67 gauge. While I'm at it, the aforementioned four sizes are the most common gauges available. 16 gauge has seen a recent comeback, and 10 gauge is available for hard-core goose killing. Any shotgun gauge can have multiple lengths available. The length of a shotgun shell is determined before crimping, and is visible again after firing. Standard is 2 3/4" in most gauges (2 1/2" in .410), with 3" magnum available in 12, 20, and .410. 3 1/2" magnums are available in 12 gauge for select applications. As a note, you can use a shorter shell in a gun marked for longer shells, but the reverse (longer shell in shorter chamber) will raise chamber pressure to potentially unsafe levels. 12 gauge: Most common for HD, waterfowl, turkey, large game (with buckshot or slugs), and most of the target sports. Can also be used for upland game, but I sort of think it's overkill. Not that I wouldn't use it. 20 gauge: Useful in an HD role for those who cannot tolerate 12 gauge, very nice for most target sports except trap. Great for upland game. My 20 gauge Remington 870 Wingmaster is possibly my favorite gun I own. I've been shooting with it long enough it points almost instinctively. 28 gauge: might be getting a little light for target sports except skeet, also a good upland gun. Preferred banker-popping gauge of the Vice-President. .410 bore: Tiny. Use accordingly. In order of increasing constriction, chokes are classified as: Cylinder, Improved Cylinder, Light Modified, Modified, Improved Modified, Full, Extra Full, Turkey (really drat full). Correct me if I have forgotten something. Break-actions are expensive because they are, in most cases, precision instruments, and the people who buy them want really, really nice ones. There really isn't a mid level for break action guns. There are the $400 Remingtons and Stoegers, $1000 and up Berettas, Brownings, and such, and then there are "bespoke" gumnakers like Holland and Holland (linked for fapping)
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 09:57 |
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I'd like to put a light on my Benelli Nova pump, and all I can find for it right now is a Tac-Star that would attach below the barrel. Personally, I think I'd rather have something on the end of my magazine tube, but finding anything like that is proving futile so far. I know Surefire makes them for other Benelli models (the M1, I think) but I haven't seen anything for the Nova specifically. Two questions: (excuse my lack of knowledge on shotgun vocabulary here) 1. Is there any chance lights for mag tube ends for other Benellis would also work on the Nova? 2. Cost aside (I'm guessing lights that attach below the barrel are less expensive than the dedicated forends) is there any real advantage/disadvantage to either one?
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 14:26 |
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I consider myself a sportsman and am in a similar situation, not too familiar with the shotty. I've inherited a 20 year old H&R Model 88 single shot 20ga and love it as a small game getter, it's lightweight, a joy to carry in the field and so cheap that I don't mind knocking it around in the woods. I also picked up a Turkish made double barrel SxS 20ga at an auction for around $300. I too have always wanted a double for general Elmer Fuddery and am happy with not dropping a grand. There are plenty of low dollar SxS/OU shotguns out there that would make a great starter shotgun. You won't get admiring glances at the range by showing up with a generic Russian or Turkish double but they are generally reliable. I picked up some #4 buckshot this year and plan to pattern both before next whitetail season. I have access to a great stand in a swamp and if it patterns ok I might be after Bambi with a double gun next year.  
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 14:45 |
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BaronW posted:Er yeah, I meant minimal. Still, at HD ranges is there much difference between cylinder and modified with 00 Buck? I guess it would vary by the load and gun. With my 18" barrel cylinder bore shotgun, 00 buck will pattern out to around 3-4" group at around 25-30'. If I had a full choke on it, I would expect maybe half that. 3" is still small enough that you definitely have to aim well, but large enough that I'm going to hit any vital organs behind where I'm aiming at. Most people who have never patterned their guns with buckshot anticipate the spread being much larger than it actually is. I should easily get all of the pellets on target almost all of the time.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 14:45 |
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Dicks regularly sells the Stoeger Condor for $300, or with 12 and a 20 barrels for 450-500, its barebones as double barrels go, extractor only no ejectors but I love mine. The automatic safety sucks but is easily disabled, and the inertial trigger reset is confusing to some people (you can't dry fire twice in a row without either smacking the butt or turning the safety on and off) but I've never had it fail to reset when shooting. For the money I say its worth it. In case you were wondering it takes mossberg/browning invector/winchoke chokes.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 15:10 |
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I have an 870 with a 3.5" receiver, is it possible to put standard non-supermag barrels on it? I cant find an 18" that is rated for 3.5s. I know I cant shoot supermag loads through a barrel not rated for them.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 17:32 |
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For semi-auto fun I highly recommend the Remington 1100. I picked one up for a song, barrels are inexpensive and readily available as are aftermarket parts. I put a Speedfeed synthetic pistol grip stock and a magazine extension on mine for IPSC/USPSA, it took about fifteen minutes. I take it to the skeet range occasionally and get some funny looks.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 17:33 |
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Rhandhali posted:For semi-auto fun I highly recommend the Remington 1100. I picked one up for a song, barrels are inexpensive and readily available as are aftermarket parts. I put a Speedfeed synthetic pistol grip stock and a magazine extension on mine for IPSC/USPSA, it took about fifteen minutes. I take it to the skeet range occasionally and get some funny looks. I love my 1100, which I left looking traditional and use for trap and skeet. Granted, a guy with a $10,000 shotgun called my $350 1100 a "cholo gun."
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 18:13 |
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I love my low-dollar Mossberg Maverick 88 (18.5" barrel), but that's just because it looks cool since I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. 
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 18:30 |
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Second part of my question would it be legal to get another 30" and cut it down to 18"? not looking to go SBS here.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 18:48 |
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Doublethink posted:Second part of my question would it be legal to get another 30" and cut it down to 18"? not looking to go SBS here. Yes, you can do this. Keep it to 18.5" to err on the side of caution. It'd run about $50 for a shop to cut, crown, and re-bead the barrel.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 19:26 |
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I'm thinking about getting a nice shotgun for home defense and maybe some range fun and I really like the way the Winchester 1887 looks( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_M1887 ). From what I've found so far I won't be able to afford an actual 1887 or 1901, but I see that Norinco has their YL-1887L 'Cowboy 1887' 12ga ( http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/YL-1887L.shtm ). I was wondering whether a lever action shotgun is a good idea( I haven't seen one mentioned yet ) and if Norinco sucks or not. I've never handled / seen one of their guns before. halonx fucked around with this message at Dec 10, 2007 around 19:42 |
| # ? Dec 10, 2007 19:37 |
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halonx posted:So I'm thinking about getting a nice shotgun for home defense and maybe some range fun and I really like the way the Winchester 1887 looks( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_M1887 ). Negs: The 1887 is known to be easy to short-stroke. It was released with cowboy action shooting in mind; an environment where the worst that can happen from a non-catastrophic weapon failure is that you lose the stage/match and are done for the day. The fit and finish on Norincos is not the greatest. It would take a lot of breaking in to determine if you've got something worthy to defend your home. It only takes 2.75" shells. It's ~$500US compared to $300 for an entry level Remington 870 and half that for an entry level Mossberg. There hasn't been any new models of a lever-action shotgun since 1901, this should tell you something. A gun looking cool matters nothing for home defense. Pros: it DOES look neat and it's fun to shoot. Bottom line: If you want a $500 range-toy, have at it, but otherwise I'd stay away. televiper fucked around with this message at Dec 10, 2007 around 20:21 |
| # ? Dec 10, 2007 19:51 |
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televiper posted:... $300 for an entry level Remington 870 and half that for an entry level Mossberg. There hasn't been any new models of a lever-action shotgun since 1901, this should tell you something. A gun looking cool matters nothing for home defense. So as far as a Remington 870 or Mossberg goes, I'm looking at something a little shorter and pretty reliable( mostly used for home protection ), are they fairly easy to find with the shorter barrel setup or would I probably have to order something special?
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 20:14 |
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halonx posted:So as far as a Remington 870 or Mossberg goes, I'm looking at something a little shorter and pretty reliable( mostly used for home protection ), are they fairly easy to find with the shorter barrel setup or would I probably have to order something special? Can't really speak for Canada (assuming that's where you're from since you linked to Marstar), but around here an 18" Mossberg 500 is available pretty much any time from Dick's Sporting Goods or Gander Mountain. Any dedicated gunshop worth its salt will carry several makes and models of short'ish home-defense shotgun. And like I mentioned to the guy somewhere above, if you find a gun you like with a barrel that's too long, you can have it shortened for around $50.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 20:30 |
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Doublethink posted:I have an 870 with a 3.5" receiver, is it possible to put standard non-supermag barrels on it? I cant find an 18" that is rated for 3.5s. I know I cant shoot supermag loads through a barrel not rated for them. Yeah, I think this is legit. From examining my old man's Wingmaster Super Mag, the interface between the chamber and the receiver looks the same.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 20:31 |
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halonx posted:So as far as a Remington 870 or Mossberg goes, I'm looking at something a little shorter and pretty reliable( mostly used for home protection ), are they fairly easy to find with the shorter barrel setup or would I probably have to order something special? Both can be found easily with "Home Defense" setups, usually with a 18" barrel. I prefer 870s with 20" barrels, but you should go to a store and fondle a few different brands and models and see what feels good to you. As far as reliability goes, the old saying is "a Remington will outlast a Mossberg, and a Mossberg will outlast you." Both are good guns, and really, despite what some people say it comes down to personal preference. Either of these would be pretty bitching HD guns: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...oducts_id/42057 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...oducts_id/41871
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 20:33 |
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charliebravo77 posted:Both can be found easily with "Home Defense" setups, usually with a 18" barrel. I prefer 870s with 20" barrels, but you should go to a store and fondle a few different brands and models and see what feels good to you. As far as reliability goes, the old saying is "a Remington will outlast a Mossberg, and a Mossberg will outlast you." Both are good guns, and really, despite what some people say it comes down to personal preference. Cool, I'll have to run to the shop I usually go to. They're usually pretty good and helped me grab a Ruger GP100 last time I was there after fingering up just about every pistol they had.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 20:51 |
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I love my Browning "Sweet Sixteen" for sporting. It's a light, natural pointer.  If only I could shoot as well with my camera...
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 20:56 |
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For and all around sporter gun you cant beat this. Remington a-5 clone. I've shot the gently caress out of lot's of clays with this.5 rounds,built in modified choke.It looks like hell but still shoots great  And here's my hd gun. Cylinder choke,7+1 capacity,winchester 1300. You could do this same basic setup on just about anything. 
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 21:17 |
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chrisr0 posted:I love my Browning "Sweet Sixteen" for sporting. It's a light, natural pointer. Hey Sweet Sixteen buddy! This one was my grandad's, but I'm pretty sure he used it hunting.
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 22:22 |
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http://www.taser.com/pages/VideoDetails.aspx?videoid=56 You will never look at a shotgun the same again!
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| # ? Dec 10, 2007 22:23 |
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Not sure about Canada, but the US big box stores (specifically Walmart) have the Remington 870 combo kit which includes a rifled barrel with rifle sights and a smooth bore barrel with a mid-choke for about $400US. You really can't go wrong with this combo for a first shotgun. The interchangeable barrels allow you to go from crow/squirrel/critter to deer in about 2 minutes. I usually keep the smooth barrel loaded with 00-buck for my under the bed gun. I've fired some of the tactical setups with slugs/00 and I'm not sure that I would want to do it in an emergency.
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| # ? Dec 11, 2007 01:16 |
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Chemical_Ali posted:http://www.taser.com/pages/VideoDetails.aspx?videoid=56 Oh, the stupid things I would do if I could get my hands on some of those.
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| # ? Dec 11, 2007 01:24 |
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Chemical_Ali posted:http://www.taser.com/pages/VideoDetails.aspx?videoid=56
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| # ? Dec 11, 2007 02:11 |
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Chemical_Ali posted:http://www.taser.com/pages/VideoDetails.aspx?videoid=56 gently caress tasers.
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| # ? Dec 11, 2007 02:29 |
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Sadistic posted:And here's my hd gun. Cylinder choke,7+1 capacity,winchester 1300. You could do this same basic setup on just about anything. Ooh, what kind of stock is that and how do you like it? I really want a top folding stock for my Mossberg 500 for HD purposes. I'd really like to be able to choose how long it is, rather than be stuck with either "too drat long" or "crazy pistol grip only." It seems the only two options are one from ATI (which I've heard is flimsy) or the Knoxx (which seems to be sold out everywhere and a bit more than I'd like to spend).
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| # ? Dec 11, 2007 02:35 |
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WTFBEES posted:Ooh, what kind of stock is that and how do you like it? I really want a top folding stock for my Mossberg 500 for HD purposes. I'd really like to be able to choose how long it is, rather than be stuck with either "too drat long" or "crazy pistol grip only." It seems the only two options are one from ATI (which I've heard is flimsy) or the Knoxx (which seems to be sold out everywhere and a bit more than I'd like to spend).
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| # ? Dec 11, 2007 02:57 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 10:31 |
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Actually i find it more comfortable shooting it with the stock folded(I think the forend pistol grip helps with this) And I've spent alot of time practicing pointshooting it. to tell the truth i am thinking about taking the stock off it and having just the pistol grip since i never use it anyway
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| # ? Dec 11, 2007 07:35 |
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