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BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


Somebody wanted to see me debate him, and I was just unbanned. I have no idea what he really is about but he certainly seems like a moron. Any tips?

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saratoga
Mar 5, 2001
This is a Randbrick post. It goes in that D&D megathread on page 294

"i think obama was mediocre in that debate, but hillary was fucking terrible. also russert is filth."

-randbrick, 12/26/08


Hi and welcome to helldump. Why don't you start by telling us about yourself.

Lee Harvey Postwold
Apr 6, 2004

by Fragmaster


hm aren't you that stupid perpetual motion enjoyable human being? and you're calling TT a moron? please go away

Foggy
May 17, 2004



Anything can happen now that the world runs on Steorn power

BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


Haha, well, I never said I actually believed in it, but the idiocy of nay-sayers truly shows that there are a lot of dudes who just took physics 101 who believe they know everything. Still, there's no factual updates on the status of Steorn. And in absence of such news I won't try to accuse them of anything either. After all, my protest stemmed from the fact that a lot of people were convinced they were an organized scam; something which really requires proofs. Anyway, the community about Steorn has since become very interesting for us who want to learn about what happens in the fringe community and don't want to drown in the stupidity of UFO-believers and Randi-cocksuckers.

Anyway, what am I supposed to discuss with Toblerone? He seems to be interested in rather different things than I am, though I certainly disagree with pretty much everything he says.

Lee Harvey Postwold
Apr 6, 2004

by Fragmaster


you are an idiot shut up

PurelyPolitical
Dec 10, 2003

WITNESS THE DOOM OF YOUR WORLD

BernieLomax posted:

Somebody wanted to see me debate him, and I was just unbanned. I have no idea what he really is about but he certainly seems like a moron. Any tips?

loving hilarious.
Bernie, I suggest that you make your responses and posts as verbose as possible - TT doesn't like long textual arguments, so keep him on his toes by being as long as possible.

TONY DANZAS HO
Aug 27, 2003

Making you do a carepostin 2.1 isn't as uncool as making to an analysis in the middle of a flamewar that boosting my ego.


your avatar rules

WaitingforGuiteau
Aug 4, 2005

The Life Story of James Garfield

BernieLomax posted:

Haha, well, I never said I actually believed in it, but the idiocy of nay-sayers truly shows that there are a lot of dudes who just took physics 101 who believe they know everything. Still, there's no factual updates on the status of Steorn. And in absence of such news I won't try to accuse them of anything either. After all, my protest stemmed from the fact that a lot of people were convinced they were an organized scam; something which really requires proofs. Anyway, the community about Steorn has since become very interesting for us who want to learn about what happens in the fringe community and don't want to drown in the stupidity of UFO-believers and Randi-cocksuckers.

Anyway, what am I supposed to discuss with Toblerone? He seems to be interested in rather different things than I am, though I certainly disagree with pretty much everything he says.

I'm a PhD candidate and without even looking at your perpetual motion apparatus, I'm saying you're an idiot.

Discuss.

Dirty Rob
Aug 10, 2004

by Fistgrrl


That dude Steorn got all hosed up at my place last week, threw up all over my kitchen.

brainguy
Jan 25, 2007

Why be Toolsy when you can be Gumby


you should debate him about which of you are a bigger enjoyable human being

(you both win)

TONY DANZAS HO
Aug 27, 2003

Making you do a carepostin 2.1 isn't as uncool as making to an analysis in the middle of a flamewar that boosting my ego.


dude i'm gonna barf

WaitingforGuiteau
Aug 4, 2005

The Life Story of James Garfield

It's better not to fight the urge

BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


WaitingforGuiteau posted:

I'm a PhD candidate and without even looking at your perpetual motion apparatus, I'm saying you're an idiot.

Discuss.

PhD in what? Well, being a PhD candidate is nothing big. Unless you actually have anything new to come with you're worthless as a scientists. Of course, there's some polish to do in science, but it certainly ain't what is going to drive the world forward. So the popperian view that science only goes forward once something is falsified is a simplistic view and the almost militant ways people stick to it in the US is a strong point that scientific education is quite hosed up. Now, there is no actual perpetual device made yet. But there are some examples on principles that has not been fully investigated, and there are TONS of empirical evidence to be found in areas that has been completely overlooked because PhDs only focus on learning that basic particle model and other naive world views. So, what I am saying, is that waving your PhD as an authority on science as a whole entitles you to be a huge moron.

Randbrick
Sep 28, 2002


what no one realizes is that if everyone gave "just pennies a daY" to feed poor african kids, their economies would undergo cripling inflation and those pennies a day would become dollars a day and then dollars an hour

next thing you know you're essentialy paying college tuition for mkembe, and you can't get out because they keep sendin you pictures of him looking hopeful and who cn say no to that face?

whole thing is ultimately a pyramid scam that's just waiting to hit a critical thershold then BAM

Foggy
May 17, 2004



I made a perpetual motion machine just by combining The Secret with chiropractic

saratoga
Mar 5, 2001
This is a Randbrick post. It goes in that D&D megathread on page 294

"i think obama was mediocre in that debate, but hillary was fucking terrible. also russert is filth."

-randbrick, 12/26/08


BernieLomax posted:

PhD in what? Well, being a PhD candidate is nothing big. Unless you actually have anything new to come with you're worthless as a scientists. Of course, there's some polish to do in science, but it certainly ain't what is going to drive the world forward. So the popperian view that science only goes forward once something is falsified is a simplistic view and the almost militant ways people stick to it in the US is a strong point that scientific education is quite hosed up. Now, there is no actual perpetual device made yet. But there are some examples on principles that has not been fully investigated, and there are TONS of empirical evidence to be found in areas that has been completely overlooked because PhDs only focus on learning that basic particle model and other naive world views. So, what I am saying, is that waving your PhD as an authority on science as a whole entitles you to be a huge moron.

Without even reading your post or listing my extensive credentials, I'm saying you're an idiot.

BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


Foggy posted:

I made a perpetual motion machine just by combining The Secret with chiropractic

That's kinda funny. The whole subluxation thing is a straw man set up by skeptics. No serious chiropractic actually uses it. Now, I have to stress that "serious" means those educated in for example Australia, and not the quacks that seem to be about in the US. But that's rather a problem in the US, the fact that malpractice is pretty much protected by law, not with the chiropractics themselves.

But oh well, people seem to be smacktalking chiropractics as if they were a homogenous groups in order to make themselves seem intelligent. Pretty sad, when it is really a sign of ignorance.

I never got the thing about "The Secret" tho, it just seems like another self-help books with the fairly true statement that "if you do things with a positive intention, things happen that are in favor for you". Now, why this is a secret is completely oblivious to me.

Now, can TobleroneTriangle come about? I've been reading his posts and he certainly seems like an interesting chap.

Dirty Rob
Aug 10, 2004

by Fistgrrl


Foggy posted:

Ron Paul 08 made a perpetual motion machine just by combining The Secret with chiropractic

ron paul 08

Cool Buff Man
Jul 30, 2006

bitch

hey dUde you got an avatar that's not really accurate. fag

Dirty Rob
Aug 10, 2004

by Fistgrrl


Frank Rizzo! posted:

hey dUde you got an avatar that's not really accurate. fag

Its a frog in a top hat, what the gently caress you want already?

Edit: I do in fact have that much game, so the title is pretty accurate.

Lee Harvey Postwold
Apr 6, 2004

by Fragmaster


eris bernie is not amusing please ban again tia

jamal jenkins
Dec 18, 2007

by The Finn


BernieLomax posted:

Now, can TobleroneTriangle come about? I've been reading his posts and he certainly seems like an interesting chap.

Hmmm that all depends on whether you support the white triangle or the black triangle

Ches Neckbeard
Dec 3, 2005



saratoga posted:

Without even reading your post or listing my extensive credentials, I'm saying you're an idiot.

Sir he has no need for credentials for this man is self taught and scoffs at your fancy colleges, facts and scientific principals because college degrees are for fags.

brainguy
Jan 25, 2007

Why be Toolsy when you can be Gumby


oh excellent, jamesishere is here

BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


jamesishere posted:

Hmmm that all depends on whether you support the white triangle or the black triangle

Well, that's what I would like to discuss with him. He seems to have some belief in axioms I find fascinating. And pretty much any attempt at trying to distill reality into short slogans will end with something completely wrong, and he seems to be a master at this process. Ref. Ron Pauls belief in the constitution.

I WANNA B A MOD!!!
Jun 6, 2003

by Fragmaster


so why don't you pm him and shut up

WaitingforGuiteau
Aug 4, 2005

The Life Story of James Garfield

BernieLomax posted:

Well, that's what I would like to discuss with him. He seems to have some belief in axioms I find fascinating. And pretty much any attempt at trying to distill reality into short slogans will end with something completely wrong, and he seems to be a master at this process. Ref. Ron Pauls belief in the constitution.

I've had a lot of encounters with crackpots who have no actual understanding of how science actually works, much less what's been discovered, and I just want to know if you can shed some light on how you go from "high school science enthusiast" to "cracked lunatic convinced that thousands upon thousands of people are conspiring to convince you that protons are made of quarks rather than your own theory which involves a few ill-defined concepts, some basic algebra, and the assertion that turtles mediate the strong force"?

eXXon
Aug 19, 2002



BernieLomax posted:

Now, there is no actual perpetual device made yet. But there are some examples on principles that has not been fully investigated, and there are TONS of empirical evidence to be found in areas that has been completely overlooked because PhDs only focus on learning that basic particle model and other naive world views.

link to published article on these perpetual motion principles please

BernieLomax posted:

Well, that's what I would like to discuss with him. He seems to have some belief in axioms I find fascinating. And pretty much any attempt at trying to distill reality into short slogans will end with something completely wrong, and he seems to be a master at this process. Ref. Ron Pauls belief in the constitution.

This post is basically about you, just replace anything about Ron Paul with perpetual motion.

Foggy
May 17, 2004



eXXon posted:

link to published article on these perpetual motion principles please


This post is basically about you, just replace anything about Ron Paul with perpetual motion.

yeah right like the science fasciocracy would publish research that might make them question their so called laws of thermodynamics

TONY DANZAS HO
Aug 27, 2003

Making you do a carepostin 2.1 isn't as uncool as making to an analysis in the middle of a flamewar that boosting my ego.


this thread is so gay

brainguy
Jan 25, 2007

Why be Toolsy when you can be Gumby


tony danzas ho posted:

this thread is so gay

BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


WaitingforGuiteau posted:

I've had a lot of encounters with crackpots who have no actual understanding of how science actually works, much less what's been discovered, and I just want to know if you can shed some light on how you go from "high school science enthusiast" to "cracked lunatic convinced that thousands upon thousands of people are conspiring to convince you that protons are made of quarks rather than your own theory which involves a few ill-defined concepts, some basic algebra, and the assertion that turtles mediate the strong force"?

Well, this is the wrong outset. Just look at quantum physics, it straight out says that thing cannot really be particles. They are just what you find when you look for it. And this over focus on particles as the sole explanation model is just to make it simple to understand. While reality is a lot different. An interesting happening was when Walter Russell, the dude who coined the term New Age and was raped in his after-life as an icon by the "New Age Movement", actually did a spiritual way of deducing physical principles and did have a limited success with this. This caused a debate (with real physicists) where the summary was that certainly the spiritual approach had some usefulness in that you used the brains possibility to make out patterns out of chaos. And this was what started the whole new age movement, but people, and certainly the new age movement itself, has forgotten what they learnt. Now physics is seemed like a territory that only physicists can access, and at the same time people whine about why people don't wanna get educated and hence we get all these programs to make science popular and what not.

Now, the quacks are those who believe that there is no supersymmetry. And the quacks believe there are no god particle. The belief in supersymmetry is mainstream, but I think this is the biggest quackery ever. And now the media is polluted with stories about super string theory and what not; that's the real quackery.

And until recently, people were free to suggest models. But now they are chased down by militant skeptics. Heim theory might be wrong, but people are attacking it because they feel their teaching is betrayed.

There is a middle ground in all this, and I want to represent that. There is a possiblity to unite philosophy and science again.

So, I think it is because it is an effect of science being in a crisis. I could discuss this some more from a different angle if you like too.

eXXon posted:

link to published article on these perpetual motion principles please

This post is basically about you, just replace anything about Ron Paul with perpetual motion.

Well, you could start out with facts such as that quantum principles aren't actually conservative. Next try wrapping your head about schroedingers cat. Then go on to look what science tells you about tornadoes and why they have such huge issues resolving these. Then look up the noble prize on spintronics. Then try learning about non-conservative fields. Then you will start realizing slowly that there is a huge black hole in the understanding and empirical knowledge of medium-level physical principles. So far I've found the 1920s literature on emerging science, before the whole schoolboy mentality took grasp of the whole field fascinating, and actually pointing towards much more refined and elegant theories than are suggested by the mainstream today. Bohm for example.

edit: missing sentences

BernieLomax fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2008 around 06:03

saratoga
Mar 5, 2001
This is a Randbrick post. It goes in that D&D megathread on page 294

"i think obama was mediocre in that debate, but hillary was fucking terrible. also russert is filth."

-randbrick, 12/26/08


BernieLomax posted:

Well, this is the wrong outset. Just look at quantum physics, it straight out says that thing cannot really be particles. They are just what you find when you look for it. And this over focus on particles as the sole explanation model is just to make it simple to understand. While reality is a lot different. An interesting happening was when Walter Russell, the dude who coined the term New Age and was raped in his after-life as an icon by the "New Age Movement", actually did a spiritual way of deducing physical principles and did have a limited success with this. This caused a debate (with real physicists) where the summary was that certainly the spiritual approach had some usefulness in that you used the brains possibility to make out patterns out of chaos. And this was what started the whole new age movement, but people, and certainly the new age movement itself, has forgotten what they learnt. Now physics is seemed like a territory that only physicists can access, and at the same time people whine about why people don't wanna get educated and hence we get all these programs to make science popular and what not.

Now, the quacks are those who believe that there is no supersymmetry. And the quacks believe there are no god particle. The belief in supersymmetry is mainstream, but I think this is the biggest quackery ever. And now the media is polluted with stories about super string theory and what not; that's the real quackery.

And until recently, people were free to suggest models. But now they are chased down by militant skeptics. Heim theory might be wrong, but people are attacking it because they feel their teaching is betrayed.

There is a middle ground in all this, and I want to represent that. There is a possiblity to unite philosophy and science again.


Well, you could start out with facts such as that quantum principles aren't actually conservative. Next try wrapping your head about schroedingers cat. Then go on to look what science tells you about tornadoes and why they have such huge issues resolving these. Then look up the noble prize on spintronics. Then try learning about non-conservative fields. Then you will start realizing slowly that there is a huge black hole in the understanding and empirical knowledge of medium-level physical principles. So far I've found the 1920s literature on emerging science, before the whole schoolboy mentality took grasp of the whole field.

how can you be so uninteresting

Cool Buff Man
Jul 30, 2006

bitch

Dirty Rob posted:

Its a frog in a top hat, what the gently caress you want already?

Edit: I do in fact have that much game, so the title is pretty accurate.

i meant the permabanned guy DUDE

Foggy
May 17, 2004



what the bleep do we know!?

BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


Foggy posted:

what the bleep do we know!?

Yepp. And then we have the kind of morons that take that movie literally. I agree with a lot of the criticism that movie got. But I think the approach it is representing is interesting and might actually get people more interested in science than super string theory can do.

PurelyPolitical
Dec 10, 2003

WITNESS THE DOOM OF YOUR WORLD

Bernie, less posting here, more picking fights with TT

brainguy
Jan 25, 2007

Why be Toolsy when you can be Gumby


are you weekend at bernies 1 or 2

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BernieLomax
May 29, 2002


brainguy posted:

are you weekend at bernies 1 or 2

Never seen the second actually. But I love the first.

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