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eXXon
Aug 19, 2002



Just chiming in to say that the more you goalies hack at me the harder I'll go for loose pucks and the more time I'll spend planted in or around the crease

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Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Here are some images of me in my gear as well my stance and butterfly.


Stance. Notice how I'm cheating towards the trapper side? Yeah, I need to fix that.


Close shot of my butterfly. It looks like my trapper is way too high.


For some reason I seem to have adopted the screen stance at all times. I also noticed that I'm bending more with my back than hips, which isn't good and considering that I'm 5'7, I need to be more upright for that shot.

Aniki fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 02:35

Internet Victory
Dec 10, 2005
The future is here. Internet!

Aniki your pads look like they're 5" too short in that butterfly picture. Hope you got some beefy knee protection. Bring your gloves down.



Might as well post this in this thread too. My gear.


Hackva mask
RBK Xpulse 6.0 C/A
RBK Xpulse 6.0 Catcher, Blocker, Pads (will be selling these cheap once the battrams come in)
TPS something or another pants (they were $30, I need new pants)
PAW custom knee/thigh pads
Bauer 1000 skates
Vaughn throat guard
Budget KOHO sticks

And my new BATTRAM gear thats currently on its way to me.



Fury pads and new Nexus gloves.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Internet Victory posted:

Aniki your pads look like they're 5" too short in that butterfly picture. Hope you got some beefy knee protection. Bring your gloves down.

I noticed that too. They're 34" pads, but the next time I get pads, I either need to get bigger pads or make sure to get a +1 or 2 thigh rise. I did have thigh boards on those pads, but I took them out, since they kept on getting caught in my pants.

Also, I'll make sure to bring my gloves down.

Edit: Here is a long range shot of my butterfly. Should I try to bring my knees closer together when I'm butterflying or are my pads simply too short?

Aniki fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 02:43

Internet Victory
Dec 10, 2005
The future is here. Internet!

Aniki posted:

I noticed that too. They're 34" pads, but the next time I get pads, I either need to get bigger pads or make sure to get a +1 or 2 thigh rise. I did have thigh boards on those pads, but I took them out, since they kept on getting caught in my pants.

Also, I'll make sure to bring my gloves down.

Edit: Here is a long range shot of my butterfly. Should I try to bring my knees closer together when I'm butterflying or are my pads simply too short?


Yes bring your knees together like this.


Here's what a butterfly should look like.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

I'll work on that. I can get my knees to close sometimes, but it is far from consistent. I know that I need to keep my knees closer together when I drop, so I'll start from there and see what I need to do.

Aniki fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 03:13

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

Aniki posted:

Here are some images of me in my gear as well my stance and butterfly.


Stance. Notice how I'm cheating towards the trapper side? Yeah, I need to fix that.


Close shot of my butterfly. It looks like my trapper is way too high.


For some reason I seem to have adopted the screen stance at all times. I also noticed that I'm bending more with my back than hips, which isn't good and considering that I'm 5'7, I need to be more upright for that shot.

bigger issue: why are your skates facing outward in your stance? i was always taught to slightly pigeon-toe. this makes sense from a butterfly push perspective (less so from a t-push, but that's for when time isn't of the essence as is), so i'd do that. also, yeah, your bend should be spread between knees and back (think of it as a wall-sit with a slight forward cant). as you drive your knees (which are coiled and therefore ready to explode), your torso should "uncoil" into the space you were in as your knees fill the five hole.

edit: here's a better pic for vertical positioning ideas:

PenguinManAmato fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2008 around 04:42

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

PenguinManAmato posted:

bigger issue: why are your skates facing outward in your stance? i was always taught to slightly pigeon-toe. this makes sense from a butterfly push perspective (less so from a t-push, but that's for when time isn't of the essence as is), so i'd do that. also, yeah, your bend should be spread between knees and back (think of it as a wall-sit with a slight forward cant). as you drive your knees (which are coiled and therefore ready to explode), your torso should "uncoil" into the space you were in as your knees fill the five hole.

I think that's where my lack of formal coaching shows up. I really didn't know any better and I think that I was mimicking the feet position for when I squat, which is why my feet are facing out not in. This is also probably why I have difficulty maintaining a stance with my knees close together, so changing my skate positioning may help solve both problems.

It is amazing how many flaws show up when you look at yourself in a picture and I can only imagine that it would be moreso if I had video. I wish I had taken photos sooner, but I may need to put on my inline skates and work on this in the garage this week.

Keep the advice coming this is really helpful.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Hey, are we talking about problems in our technique now?

Check this bad boy out. I'm "covering" the post. I've gotten a lot better at it recently, and to the best of my knowledge I never actually gave up a goal between these gaping holes, but there we go

Only registered members can see post attachments!

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

glove goes over the pad not to the side; also, stick is either covering the five hole or guarding the pass (parallel to goal line). other than that, the general idea is ok, just be ready to push out into your full stance OR across in a slide.

crusader donkey
Oct 10, 2007

Hungry For The Cup (But Settling For Nachos)

Jesus, if I had pictures of my technique I wouldn't post them because it would get completely torn apart. I rely way too much on reflexes/athleticism.

fenix424
Mar 13, 2007

Waiting for World of Starcraft

Here's a question:

A friend of mine recently asked me to play goalie this summer in a roller hockey league with him. Only one problem: I've only played goalie in floor hockey league i played in grade school and in pickup games at the park where i didn't skate. I have only skated a handful of times in my life. How impossible of a task is this?

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006

Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.

-Robert F. Kennedy on Being a Minnesota Sports Fan

Another question...why are the pictures taken in night vision mode?

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




PenguinManAmato posted:

glove goes over the pad not to the side; also, stick is either covering the five hole or guarding the pass (parallel to goal line). other than that, the general idea is ok, just be ready to push out into your full stance OR across in a slide.

Yeah, I eventually picked up on the "glove on the outside", I'm still pretty bad with my stick. Sliding across comes naturally to me, though I'm still a little weak on my glove positioning when I do so. I'm pretty sure this was taken midway across my slide cause I'm just finishing the push. Stick is chilling out doing nothing, and my glove is just as useless. Though that may just be a mid-slide thing, I have no idea.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




fenix424 posted:

Here's a question:

A friend of mine recently asked me to play goalie this summer in a roller hockey league with him. Only one problem: I've only played goalie in floor hockey league i played in grade school and in pickup games at the park where i didn't skate. I have only skated a handful of times in my life. How impossible of a task is this?

Well, technically speaking you need to be able to do some basic skating maneuvers to play the position. I can't speak for roller, but in ice I think you at least need to be able to come to a stop on one edge and reverse direction extremely quickly at a minimum. I mean, I guess you can try without knowing that but I doubt you'll have any fun.

But realistically if you want to get further you need to be one of the better skaters on your team. I don't mean that in a "don't bother playing in goal" type of way, but if you have until summer to learn, go and skate every day or whatever -- it's pretty easy to pick up to be quite honest.

Edit:

Not entirely off topic, but I forgot that someone put up Corey Wogtech's little instructional video online. I added the URLs to the bottom of the OP.

Martytoof fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 06:57

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

soggybagel posted:

Another question...why are the pictures taken in night vision mode?

My friend is obsessed with the night vision feature of that camera, so he looks for any excuse to use it even when it's not necessary.

Aniki fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 10:58

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

Martytoof posted:

Yeah, I eventually picked up on the "glove on the outside", I'm still pretty bad with my stick. Sliding across comes naturally to me, though I'm still a little weak on my glove positioning when I do so. I'm pretty sure this was taken midway across my slide cause I'm just finishing the push. Stick is chilling out doing nothing, and my glove is just as useless. Though that may just be a mid-slide thing, I have no idea.

Here's my take on post guard movements and stick positioning:

On the left (glove hand) post, you should only be going into that half-butterfly mechanic pre-shot if:
1) the guy is behind the net
2) the only viable passing options are to your left below the dot
3) the guy is skating towards the net

reasoning: most of the time, you're better off staying in a variant of your stance and driving the pad down if the guy does choose to try and cut out in front. at the same time, on the right post, i hardly ever use that mechanic unless i'm attempting a sweep check.

speaking of which, let's talk a little about stick positioning on post work!

if you're in one of those half pad mechanics, you're probably well served by either putting the paddle down (when on the left post) or, if keeping it upright, keeping the stick ready to get into the passing lane. on the right, i like to either sweep check a couple times at the beginning of the game (more for effect than effectiveness, after that if the guy is coming around and is asleep i'll do it, the main idea is to get him away from the side of the net) or hang the stick. the fewer passes that get into the slot the more likely you are to win.

UnmaskedGremlin
May 28, 2002

I hear there's gonna be cake!


fenix424 posted:

Here's a question:

A friend of mine recently asked me to play goalie this summer in a roller hockey league with him. Only one problem: I've only played goalie in floor hockey league i played in grade school and in pickup games at the park where i didn't skate. I have only skated a handful of times in my life. How impossible of a task is this?

There are actually roller leagues where they allow the goalies to just wear sneakers. One of the rinks I've played at, which is a painted cement, allows this, and I liked it better for that since it's a pain to get good movement on skates. See if this rink/league is like that. You may not have to worry!

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

UnmaskedGremlin posted:

blasphemy
i think it's because i suck but i can't move for poo poo in sneakers

UnmaskedGremlin
May 28, 2002

I hear there's gonna be cake!


PenguinManAmato posted:

i think it's because i suck but i can't move for poo poo in sneakers

Meh, its all personal preference I guess. Granted, it wasn't insanely competitive or anything, but there was actually only one regular goalie who wore skates in that league I played in. Like I said, with the painted cement, on skates, I just didnt' feel like I could get the same movement.

EDIT: And I should say, it was more the lateral movement, and other various moves. forward and backward were obviously no problem, but doing things you want to do on a surface that will let you slide a bit (like a sport court or ice) just don't work on cement.

UnmaskedGremlin fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 16:31

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

UnmaskedGremlin posted:

Meh, its all personal preference I guess. Granted, it wasn't insanely competitive or anything, but there was actually only one regular goalie who wore skates in that league I played in. Like I said, with the painted cement, on skates, I just didnt' feel like I could get the same movement.

EDIT: And I should say, it was more the lateral movement, and other various moves. forward and backward were obviously no problem, but doing things you want to do on a surface that will let you slide a bit (like a sport court or ice) just don't work on cement.
I guess; I started playing inline on smooth cement (drained ice rink) and honestly i got a ton of slide once I figured out how to slide on my cowling and not on my pad. I also learned that wheel selection is crucial for surface, as the wheels i love for sport court (rink rat crossbars) are awful on concrete.

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

crusader donkey posted:

Jesus, if I had pictures of my technique I wouldn't post them because it would get completely torn apart. I rely way too much on reflexes/athleticism.
i missed this earlier, but if you guys think i'm being too harsh or what have you please let me know. i'm not that good but i know that starting with a solid mechanical basis will make life much easier in the long run. i have pretty good reflexes but the fact of the matter is that 95% of my saves are made simply because i have a good stance, play the angle and telescope properly for the situation, and i'm also big enough that i can get by just doing those two things.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




I don't think you're being too harsh but whatever.

I know there are things I have to work on and I'd rather have you or anyone else in this thread give me food for thought than clam up about it. Suggestions and other viewpoints are always good, otherwise I wouldn't think of trying new techniques or whatnot.

Besides, us goalies are supposed to be opinionated.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




PenguinManAmato posted:

Here's my take on post guard movements and stick positioning:

On the left (glove hand) post, you should only be going into that half-butterfly mechanic pre-shot if:
1) the guy is behind the net
2) the only viable passing options are to your left below the dot
3) the guy is skating towards the net


Yeah, actually I remember the photo I posted because I cropped it out of a much bigger one a long time ago. Not pictured are my defense (don't worry, there were nowhere to be seen in the original either), the guy with the puck over in the direction I'm looking, and a guy sitting right on my back door. I figured I'd have the best chance to avoid anything by being ready to slide across (remember that in my league the chance of someone lifting a puck is slim).

That being said, I did have horrible glove positioning, and my stick should have been much more active.

Aniki posted:

My friend is obsessed with the night vision feature of that camera, so he looks for any excuse to use it even when it's not necessary.

Get him to turn on the Sepia mode on his camera and make an old timey silent goalie movie with piano music.

*Gets scored on*

"Oh poppycock!"

*Makes a great save*

"Zounds, I have mitigated your scoring attempt, good sir!"

Martytoof fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 17:12

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

Martytoof posted:

Yeah, actually I remember the photo I posted because I cropped it out of a much bigger one a long time ago. Not pictured are my defense (don't worry, there were nowhere to be seen in the original either), the guy with the puck over in the direction I'm looking, and a guy sitting right on my back door. I figured I'd have the best chance to avoid anything by being ready to slide across (remember that in my league the chance of someone lifting a puck is slim).


See, I used to think this way for a while, then i started thinking it out a bit more.

I'll assume I'm on ice, since the mechanic changes completely based on surface.

The guy is in the corner, behind the line, skating towards the net with a back door option (let's say option 3 is below/at the dot, option 4 hypothetically the strong side defenseman at the boards/top of circle, and option 5 the mid slot). Note that these optionsLet's analyse our options based on mechanic.

Traditional two pad post hug (eg pads are vertical, stick in front): stick has room to be active but not a lot. If the guy walks out, you can t-push with him but it's not a great option. If there's a defenseman planted in the slot, it's a decent mechanic since there should be absolutely nothing to shoot at. Rebound control is tough in this position. If the pass gets through your active stickwork to the backdoor (which it shouldn't, as this is a great stance for using the stick to your advantage by choking down or using as is), you are screwed. If the pass goes to option 3 at the near dot, you can move the weakside foot out into a traditional stance fairly easily but there is a transition time, and if the guy starts skating towards the slot (or passes to the slot) you're going to be behind. If the pass goes to the top of the circle, you have time, so it doesn't really matter. If the pass goes to the mid slot, you can throw a quick t-push (this is the best stance to execute a t push from) and get square in a hurry.
Scorecard:it's mediocre for option 1, decent for option 2, mediocre for option 3, good for option 4, and good for option 5.

Single pad down mechanic (what you're doing): Guy walks out, you can put the paddle down and if he keeps walking, you can follow him across the crease. Pass to the backdoor is hampered since the correct mechanic requires that you have your blocker pretty low and in close to your body, so you aren't going to get a lot of extension on the blade or paddle to stop that puck. If it gets through, you have a pretty good chance of going across and stopping it. Rebound control is good for both situations, although since you aren't square for the guy cutting across, it can sometimes dribble to the backdoor. Pass to the dot, your weak leg will have to recover as you push with the up leg to get square; this is one of the harder skating movements to do right, so if you aren't a good skater, this can be a problem. Pass to the top doesn't really matter, you have time. Option 5 is a pretty big problem in that you're pretty much committed to a butterfly save since otherwise you'd have to recover to your feet, rotate to square, push over to the correct angle, and wait for the shot. Also, since you're butterflying pretty deep, if that pass gets through, you are pretty much at the mercy of the guy shooting it.
Scorecard: superior for option 1, decent for option 2, great for option 3, good for option 4, very poor for option 5.

Lean mechanic: this is something I use for roller hockey since you can't really slide once the pad is in contact with the rink. I adapted it slightly to work with ice and for some situations, like this one, I consider it to be the best available option. I've seen a bunch of other goalies use it as well, although the specifics vary slightly. Here's how you execute it, glove side, in a non game situation: get on the goal line square to center. scoot over to the left post. your left skate should be touching the post and be perpendicular to the goal line. Now, get into your usual stance, with your usual knee bend and everything. Ok, now, shift your upper body and weight over your left foot to the point that you are effectively leaning on the post. Your left leg should be pretty much vertical, and there's probably a nice little gap that someone could shoot a puck into between your rear end and your calf. Drop your glove hand there facing outwards. Your trail leg should be at about the middle of the crease, give or take depending on how wide your usual stance is. That skate should also be ever so slightly pointed outward (anti-pigeon-toe). Ok, you're now in what I call the "leaning hug" mechanic. What does this do?

If the guy decides to take a weird shot from no angle, there's nothing to hit. Your stick is free to cut off a TON of passes. If the guy tries to cut into the middle from behind, you drive into the old one pad, paddle down post mechanic, with the added benefit that by having the foot slightly anti-pigeon toed, you can make a slight c-cut to immediately swing the trail leg around while you drive the knee down, making you square to the shot and effectively keeping any rebounds in front of you. Whether this is better than already being down is entirely dependent on how good you are at reading the play, the mechanics of how you go down, and how fast you are, so I'd rate it as slightly less effective for option 1. The pass to the backdoor should never get over using this mechanic, but if it does, you just push across, so it's marginally more effective for option 2. Option 3, you swing that trail leg out to get square, so it's already more effective. Option 4, you're already effectively in your stance by swinging the trail foot and centering your weight, so it's more effective. Option 5, which is the real killer in ice and roller, is solved by t-pushing (since the trail foot is already anti-pigeon toed) to get depth and stopping on that trail foot (now the lead foot) to allow you to square up for the shot, which is much, much more effective.
Scorecard: slightly worse for option 1 (if your mechanics are good, it's better), slightly better for option 2 (if you can read plays and are good with your stick, it's much better), marginally better for 3 and 4, and extremely better for option 5.

conclusion: Jesus christ, this post is a loving tome and I hate myself for spending 10 minutes on it, but it's just an example of how something kind of dumb (the positioning of a trail foot and knee) can make a load of difference

picture added:

PenguinManAmato fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2008 around 04:40

crusader donkey
Oct 10, 2007

Hungry For The Cup (But Settling For Nachos)

PenguinManAmato posted:

i missed this earlier, but if you guys think i'm being too harsh or what have you please let me know. i'm not that good but i know that starting with a solid mechanical basis will make life much easier in the long run. i have pretty good reflexes but the fact of the matter is that 95% of my saves are made simply because i have a good stance, play the angle and telescope properly for the situation, and i'm also big enough that i can get by just doing those two things.

No, I didn't mean that at all, sorry for the confusion. In fact, if I had decent pictures of my technique I would definitely post them because if anyone could use tips it's me. On the other hand, I use your Lean Mechanic exclusively, if I'm following your directions right anyway, and figured it out on my own somehow so maybe I'm not completely void of proper technique.

trilljester
Dec 7, 2004

"I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I'll have to see the video or something. Someone show me the video."


crusader donkey posted:

Jesus, if I had pictures of my technique I wouldn't post them because it would get completely torn apart. I rely way too much on reflexes/athleticism.

I'd say post them. We're all pretty cool in here. I can comment from a forward's perspective. I actually help out the goalies in my league with that during our practice sessions. Tell them what they're leaving open.

crusader donkey
Oct 10, 2007

Hungry For The Cup (But Settling For Nachos)

Yeah, I really wish I had some good ones, but apparently nobody I know is competent with a camera at hockey games. I have none of me actually stopping pucks and maybe one decent shot of a real stance.

edit: here's my stance. I know my 5-hole is huge but I get comments all the time about how I show it to shooters and then take it away



If I'm the slightest bit off or the shooter has an especially quick release I'm totally screwed though. Also, ignore the poor stick placement.

crusader donkey fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2008 around 21:22

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




I was going through some photos I took way back when and

HELLO THIGH RISE

Only registered members can see post attachments!

crusader donkey
Oct 10, 2007

Hungry For The Cup (But Settling For Nachos)

Martytoof posted:

I was going through some photos I took way back when and

HELLO THIGH RISE

Wow, how can you even move in those.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Yeah, I don't know if it's just the angle the photo was taken at but they look like +10" on the rise or something

crashlanding
Dec 11, 2006

Leading the offense for a fraction of the cost

Martytoof posted:

I was going through some photos I took way back when and

HELLO THIGH RISE
You guys are just a community of cheaters. "Ohhhh Kovalchuk's stick is curved 1/4" too much, I can feel it through my 3' thigh rises."

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Maybe we wouldn't be so whiney if Bettman didn't insist I spend money to make my equipment smaller <>

BabyArm
Mar 29, 2005

Like I give a crap!

Just found this thread. What the hell took so long!?!?!

Anyway, just thought I'd share my pity story:

A sure sign of getting old is after two games in three days you visit the doctor for what appears to be a strained groin is actually an inguinal hernia. So I had surgery today and won't be back on the ice until the end of the month.



No the puck didn't go in. Just a poorly deflected rebound.

Love it how my d-man thinks he's helping me by diving head first...

PenguinManAmato
Nov 18, 2004

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

it's actually pretty easy to play with large thigh rises; that having been said mine aren't ridiculous but it helps that i have a wide stance and that i'm 6'2



e. grimes i'll try and get the mask out tomorrow or weds since my week is loving awful

PenguinManAmato fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2008 around 04:50

Rick Grimes
Oct 12, 2005

We Are The Walking Dead

Yeah, I'm counting down the time until the new pads come in. Went to Skate and Shoot tonight, 8-10 PM. Now, I know I've posted about my pads, and how they're too small.

With the 32" that I have, the top of the pad is about mid knee when I go down, plus the thighboards. This leaves a bit of space between that and the bottom of my pants. Happened to catch this slapshot in just the right place about 10 min in today.

Bonus Tape Measure!


e: ^^ No problem, just let me know when to watch for it.

Rick Grimes fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2008 around 05:00

sba
Jul 9, 2001

The struggle is real.

Some guy last night knocked the stick out of my hands intentionally, then gave me a shot as he was cutting around the net.

Then he made the mistake of trying to go around the net again. Luckily, since I had lost my stick, my blocker hand was free.

He won't be bumping me again anytime soon.

nahanahs
Mar 26, 2003

<3 Shantastic <3

I have a tendency to get off my game when people take runs at me and, one time, this team figured it out. If the puck was anywhere near me, covered or not, I'd have someone running into me. The refs were being no help, despite my constant bitching (Like I said, off my game).
So sometime in the third period, this guy's coming towards me, doing their usual Top Gun fly-by, as the puck ends up heading out of the zone. He turns to watch it and didn't give himself enough room to turn. I planted my left leg and dropped my shoulder right into the center of his chest. The next time I covered and the ref came by, the said, "I'll give you that one, but don't make it so obvious next time."
They also stopped running me.

In 10 years of playing goal, I've never taken a penalty. In fact, I've never done anything that could be a penalty, excepting the above.

As far as showing off gear goes, I use these pads. And by "these pads", I mean the set used in that photo. My pads are famous!

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003



Awesome.

Awesome to
the MAX.




Those are pretty snazzy, but is there any point to the knee breaks if your medial roll isn't broken up too?

Just curious cause they still look cool

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nahanahs
Mar 26, 2003

<3 Shantastic <3

Wow, I have no idea what you just asked.

"knee breaks" into google images is.. jesus.

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