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Apr 28, 2008 01:27
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I'm a luddite. Quote not edit.
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Apr 28, 2008 01:48
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IanTheM posted:Beginning's pretty bangin'. Pretty good house in general, though I'm not familiar enough with the genre to say if you're being too generic or, not. I'd get the melody started way earlier, since its so cool and the track wares on the first part a bit much without it. Just got to the lyrics. computers saying lewd things doesn't do it for me, but your artistic choice. Just don't be like Uffie. The third element, the bass isn't as powerful as your first melody so it kind of dies away instead of building on the energy of the first melody. Give the initial note more punch maybe so it drowns out less over the drums, unless that's the purpose because I've heard that too from some people that you should choose drums over melody. Again, your choice. Pretty good though, keep it up definitely.
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Apr 28, 2008 01:49
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I just listened to the mix on my laptop and I think I'm going to have to redo the entire bass part. Sounds like total rear end, very week, and doesnt sit well with the kick. Also I think the kick needs less tail and the vocals need to go. Think I'll wait a few days before I mess around with it again though, thanks for the feedback!
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Apr 28, 2008 02:18
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Gave the bass some more warmth, added more variation to the melody, some fx on vocals, idk.
First Time Caller fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Apr 29, 2008 |
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Apr 28, 2008 18:20
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Hi Goons, I've read most of the thread (and I'm still reading) but I didn't find these specific questions - but if this is redundant then I apologize in advance. I'm a very competent acoustic musician - classical piano and theory background, and I also play/sing whatever I feel like. Very competent on upright bass, as well. I'm attempting to have some fun composing EDM - specifically hypnotic, progressive stuff. It's very frustrating, because while I can hear my ideas in my head, it's incredibly frustrating trying to input them into Reason. Notes are in a strange grid format, and all the buttons & knobs are confusing and overwhelming. My question to everyone is: Should I be using something else to feel more comfortable as a traditional musician? I've got a 25-key Oxygen and a copy of Reason 4 - would Cubase, Ableton, or something else be more suited to me? I've also heard of people using a technique of recording lines / loops in Finale, then importing them to DAW software - is that the preferred route for someone who prefers sheet music to grid boxes? I've watched the official reason video tutorials I can find on the net, and I've looked in other forums besides this one (TranceAddict, but it was less than helpful), and I still have these basic questions. Also, aside from formatting, would using Cubase over Reason be incredibly more useful to me anyway because of the ability to use plugins? Thanks in advance, and for all the posts that already exists - I'm pretty sure I can learn a lot from this thread. 
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Apr 29, 2008 14:35
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Like an Accident posted:Notes are in a strange grid format quote:and all the buttons & knobs are confusing and overwhelming. quote:Should I be using something else to feel more comfortable as a traditional musician? I've got a 25-key Oxygen and a copy of Reason 4 - would Cubase, Ableton, or something else be more suited to me?[/ quote:Also, aside from formatting, would using Cubase over Reason be incredibly more useful to me anyway because of the ability to use plugins?
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Apr 29, 2008 14:57
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Yoozer posted:If you need plugins, then the obvious answer is "yes, it would". Well then I guess my question is, do I need plugins to make decently sounding music with recent sounds and do cool things like sidechaining? I feel like I can't get convincing electro noises out of Reason and I have a hunch that lacking plugins is a big reason why.
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Apr 29, 2008 15:12
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It's not that plugins will make things magically better but the algos in Reason are pretty old for backwards compatibility and especially in terms of analog emulation there's stuff that's a lot better out there. While Thor does a nice game of catching up, I think the M-Class stuff is overdue (and the basic half-rack modules in Reason are truly ancient). On the other hand, this guy does everything in Reason. No clue how much of that is post-processing, but... Like an Accident posted:recent sounds Compare: http://theheartcore.com/music/armin_communication_dull.mp3 http://theheartcore.com/music/armin_communication_shiny.mp3 Both come from exactly the same plugin (which was free); it's just that the latter one has effects applied. Doing this in Reason is not different from doing this with any VST; it's however a fact that the VST has stuff like delay, reverb and chorus built in while Reason's synths are dry (except for Thor, that is). quote:and do cool things like sidechaining? quote:I feel like I can't get convincing electro noises out of Reason and I have a hunch that lacking plugins is a big reason why. Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 29, 2008 |
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Apr 29, 2008 17:31
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Reason's devices are actually really good, the catch is that you're gonna have to do some clever hacking and stacking of them. If you're just messing around with one device or throwing a preset over it, you're probably not going to get what you're looking for.
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Apr 29, 2008 18:20
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Kai was taken posted:Reason's devices are actually really good, the catch is that you're gonna have to do some clever hacking and stacking of them. If you're just messing around with one device or throwing a preset over it, you're probably not going to get what you're looking for. Thanks for this (and the above response). I'm going to work on finding a copy of Ableton and Cubase and start from scratch. I'll be back when those programs frustrate me as much as Reason has.  Also, could anyone expand on the process of importing finale sheet music into Ableton/Cubase? I realize that the piano roll is like tab and is "easy to use". I'm not trying to sound like a snob, but I honestly have no problems - and actually greatly prefer - a 12 part sheet music score to blip bloop squares. I understand that after it's been imported I will have to learn to manipulate the piano roll to get the perfect edit of my line/loop, but if I could input the rhythm in traditional sheet notation it would be so much nicer for me. Is it slightly more complicated than saving my finale work as a MIDI File, then importing it in Ableton/Cubase? e: If I have the 'importing from finale' process correct, which I think I might, if anyone could weigh in whom is actually using this method with more experience than I have and knows of major drawbacks (if any), it would be appreciated as well. Elephunk fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 29, 2008 |
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Apr 29, 2008 19:09
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Like an Accident posted:Well then I guess my question is, do I need plugins to make decently sounding music with recent sounds Not directly no. There are many many plugins out there that can add functionality and sound design tools far beyond what your DAW can do but with that comes the learning curve. I have known many many people with hundreds of amazing plugins (and I would hazard a guess they were acquired illegally) and yet I find they cannot use even a 1/10th of them effectively. If you can make great music with the tools you have then you don't need anything else and believe me that it is entirely possible to produce professional sounding music using just Reason. There is also the idea that having a wider colour palette and a tonne of assorted brushes won't necessarily make you a better painter. Even if you knew how to use them all there are still situations where you won't and will never need to use all of them and your paintings will be all the better for working within limits. quote:and do cool things like sidechaining? Most DAWs cannot use a compressor's sidechain with only a few expections. Most people find that they have to resort to annoying and complicated tricks (like quad bussing in Cubase) to get it to work. In some DAWs you cant get it to work period (like FL Studio). Logic can do it I think. Everyone else with VST support can use db audioware's sidechain compressor. If you are smart though you will realise that can in fact simulate many of the most common uses of a sidechain (i.e. bass ducking, frequency dependant compression and de essing) with clever mixer routing and automation. quote:I feel like I can't get convincing electro noises out of Reason and I have a hunch that lacking plugins is a big reason why. You will want to get out of this type of 'grass is greener' mentality as soon as possible because far too many people seem to convince themselves that their tools are holding them back when they rarely if ever do. More likely you will have an idea of a sound that you want to create and it may likely be one that you have already heard and wish to copy. The first think you absolutely must realise is that it is always much harder to design other people's sounds and perform other people's work than it is your own. If you are expected to copy someone else's track you would need all the tools they have used and all of their knowledge on how to use them. You would come up short even if you had all of their gear but not a clue as to how to use it properly. When you do it yourself you are improvising on your own level. If you cannot achieve something you have to ask yourself firstly whether it is your own lack of knowledge and your own inability to use your tools effectively. Most people I know, including myself couldn't say with a straight face that we know everything there is to know about our tools and that they are in fact to blame for not being able to do what we want. In short our ambitions often precede our means to achieve them. And yet if you knew how a compressor and a sidechain works and you wanted to make that bass ducking effect so common in dance music these days you would know that you can simulate the effect with automation of the compressor's ratio in an envelope and simply graphing the points where you want massive, sudden gain reduction. You could modulate output gain or input gain and the threshold of the compressor to achieve much the same effect. Likewise you can improvise your way around any technical limitation in your software if you are smart enough. WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Apr 29, 2008 |
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Apr 29, 2008 19:28
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WanderingKid posted:Not that I didn't read what you posted, but to use the parlance of the internets, the TL;DR would be: Reason can produce professional sounding tracks, but plugins make life a lot easier and it's recommended that I use one? Also, you seem to be implying that I can't use plugins with Cubase - does that make Ableton the PC DAW of choice for plugin compatibility?
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Apr 29, 2008 20:08
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WanderingKid posted:In some DAWs you cant get it to work period (like FL Studio).
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Apr 29, 2008 20:18
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ManoliIsFat posted:You can. You use a Peak Controller and put it on the mixer channel you want your knob to be affected by. You can then set any parameter (say, the ratio on your compresser) to be linked to the value of the controller. It can take some tweaking of the mapping formula to sound smooth, but it works alright. This brings up another question I have - what are the most essential controls that I should assign to my knobs on my Oxygen? The default ones seem to be random knob as volume control + one or two other things, and nothing else works. So I have to set them myself - I just don't know which effects are the most prominent to deal with, or even what half of them do. How the gently caress do you have a dial for portamento?
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Apr 29, 2008 20:24
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Like an Accident posted:This brings up another question I have - what are the most essential controls that I should assign to my knobs on my Oxygen? The default ones seem to be random knob as volume control + one or two other things, and nothing else works. So I have to set them myself - I just don't know which effects are the most prominent to deal with, or even what half of them do. You should set them whatever you want to tweak on the fly at that moment. Ok, listen, take it from someone who has only working on teaching themselves electronic music production this for about a year (holy poo poo I've been doing for this a year and I still know so little!): stop trying to look for formulas. There aren't any. I know that the Reason rack is daunting, and I know you want an easy answer, but there isn't one so just get your hands dirty. Tweak knobs. Do things that maybe you ought not to. Only by experimenting and doing are you going to learn, and in the process you might stumble across something great. This having been said, do read tutorials and manuals (READ THE MANUALS!). They can teach you a lot. Just don't go looking for a formula or the "right" way to do things, because there isn't one when it comes to electronic music.
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Apr 29, 2008 20:39
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Like an Accident posted:Also, you seem to be implying that I can't use plugins with Cubase - does that make Ableton the PC DAW of choice for plugin compatibility? Not if you want notation; then it's Cubase or Logic for you. quote:Reason can produce professional sounding tracks, but plugins make life a lot easier and it's recommended that I use one? To expand: In the beginning, Reason had only a single reverb. In version 2.5, it got a better one - the RV7000. The first reverb had to deal with slower computers, so it sacrificed quality for convenience (using more than one, or using it and not bogging down everything). In Cubase, there was a stock reverb plugin that came with it. Later with SX2 (I think) "Roomworks" was added. In the meantime - and long after that - you have the choice of whatever reverb you want to use; you're not limited to simply the bones you get thrown by Steinberg. Plugins make life easier in the sense that you get a lot more choice, and adding them doesn't have to cost anything as there's a large selection of actually free ones. As for the controls: generally volume, filter cutoff and resonance, volume envelope attack and decay, and env > filter routing. Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Apr 29, 2008 |
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Apr 29, 2008 21:27
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squidgee posted:You should set them whatever you want to tweak on the fly at that moment. The manual is an obvious resource I have been overlooking - I'll make sure to read it thoroughly before I get my copies of Ableton and Cubase running. I'm gleaming that this is a lot like learning Jazz - no "right way" to do it, and learn by trying. Is there a better way to make drum tracks than through the "pad" programs like Redrum in Reason? Not being able to use time signatures outside of 4/4 is irritating.
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Apr 29, 2008 21:29
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Like an Accident posted:The manual is an obvious resource I have been overlooking - I'll make sure to read it thoroughly before I get my copies of Ableton and Cubase running. You can trigger the Redrum via MIDI so you can play the drums with your keyboard or a pad controller. I want to say that the Redrum automaps the samples to the second octave, but I'm not sure. Just hit keys until you find it. You can also load drum samples into an NN19 or NNXT and trigger them that way. I personally prefer the NNXT route, as it gives you the most sonic flexibility, but it's also the most complicated way of doing things. nah thanks fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Apr 29, 2008 |
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Apr 29, 2008 22:39
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I posted a thread in here at the end of last year asking what sort of MIDI Controller I should get, and the consensus was that the M-Audio Axiom was the best for my price range. So I got the 49-key one for Christmas and started making music that day. I guess I'd still be considered a beginner since I've only been making music for a few months. I've made a bunch of tracks (and a few of them are up on my music MySpace, https://www.myspace.com/aetheriusnola), but they pretty much all sound the same and most aren't even in the genre of electronic music I'd really like to make: drum and bass. The ones I've made that have come out sounding sort of like DNB, I made those using multiple drum loops in Reason and just fiddling with the sliders on my Axiom. I'm sure this isn't the most efficient method, but I don't know how else to do it. I've watched some tutorial videos on Youtube and the like, but I'm still not really getting how to do it after watching those. Can anyone give me easy to understand instructions on how to make some DNB sounds so I can get started doing this? I have Reason 4, FL Studio 7, and Native Instruments Massive to work with, so whichever is easier to learn with would be preferable.
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May 2, 2008 23:01
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Recommendations for a good, free bandpass filter for (PPC) OS X?
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May 3, 2008 00:10
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what program are you using that doesn't have one built in?
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May 3, 2008 00:15
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Ableton 7. I don't think I meant bandpass filter, I think I meant a brickwall high/low cut filter. Logic has one, I want to be able to eliminate everything above/below a certain frequency. I think you can probably do it in Ableton but I think it's more complicated than it has to be. Or maybe I'm dumb.
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May 3, 2008 00:43
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ManoliIsFat posted:You can. You use a Peak Controller and put it on the mixer channel you want your knob to be affected by. You can then set any parameter (say, the ratio on your compresser) to be linked to the value of the controller. It can take some tweaking of the mapping formula to sound smooth, but it works alright. That is not a side chain. A compressor's side chain can be used for lot of things besides automatically ducking the volume of another channel. De-essing would be one such use but as you probably well know, there is no way you can make a de-esser using peak controller, a compressor and a band pass filter. Some other DAWs like Sonar can't use the side chain directly either. Well I suppose it can but you have to quad bus which is gay. quote:Reason can produce professional sounding tracks, but plugins make life a lot easier and it's recommended that I use one? You can use VST plugins in Cubase. You can't use any plugins in Reason. Plugin compatibility is not an issue for anything that supports VST (which is like everything except Reason). And plugins don't make life easier. They just add functionality. I'll spare you the tedium and just give you the TL;DR version - Learn and master one tool at a time. Don't go and download 100 tools at the same time, make your brain explode under the vertical learning curve and rely on presets because you will suck forever if you do that. WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 3, 2008 |
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May 3, 2008 01:07
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blingasaurus rex posted:Ableton 7. I don't think I meant bandpass filter, I think I meant a brickwall high/low cut filter. Logic has one, I want to be able to eliminate everything above/below a certain frequency. I think you can probably do it in Ableton but I think it's more complicated than it has to be. Or maybe I'm dumb. Lets see.. Audio effects > "Auto filter" "EQ Three" "EQ Eight" "Filter Delay" "Resonators" I'd say you're dumb, but you said it for me. Honestly, how can you miss it?
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May 3, 2008 06:11
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sithael posted:"Auto filter"
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May 3, 2008 06:13
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:dnb I'm still starting out producing drum and bass, but I'll share what I've picked up so far. Normally a tune idea starts from a break (for example, the Amen) which you loop and mess around with. It's a good idea to get a whole bunch of generic DnB breaks from sample packs (this is a great resource) and slice them up into the individual hits, so you can learn how a dnb break works. Move different hits around and see what you can come up with. For example, this could be turned into something like this. That's using only the sounds in the original break, but you can add in hits from other breaks, distortion, etc to get something cool. Once you've got your wicked original break, grab some samples, write a bass line and try following the advice here. Then just gently caress around and see what you can come up with! Probably the best bit of advice I've picked up is when you sit down and try and make something, try and get out a whole tune. You can waste hours loving around with a sample and making it sound awesome, but it's way more productive and educational to bang out a whole tune from start to finish, despite it's suckiness. edit: oh yeah, and back up your stuff. My hard drive died on Monday morning, and I lost four nearly complete tunes that I was working on 
Packed Tightly fucked around with this message at 06:19 on May 3, 2008 |
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May 3, 2008 06:14
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ManoliIsFat posted:These are the only ones that'll do him any good. Yeah but they can still do it. Also, Resonators is awesome to use with a guitar, it gets a nice sitar like sound.
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May 3, 2008 06:34
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blingasaurus rex posted:Ableton 7. I don't think I meant bandpass filter, I think I meant a brickwall high/low cut filter. Logic has one, I want to be able to eliminate everything above/below a certain frequency. I think you can probably do it in Ableton but I think it's more complicated than it has to be. Or maybe I'm dumb. I don't know what Logic's is like, but if you're just looking for a real steep filter, you could try Rubberfilter... It goes into and past the "ridiculous" range.
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May 3, 2008 07:35
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Packed Tightly posted:break stuff Thanks for the tips, and I'm sure they'll be useful once I know what I'm doing, but like I said before, I'm a beginner. All these breaks are wave files that I don't know what to do with. I use Reason for everything I do and I don't even think it recognizes wave files. To give you an idea of how much I know: I know what breaks are and what Amen is and where it came from and all, I just don't know how to use them with the program I mainly use (Reason). I don't know how to set up the bass in Reason to get it to sound like DNB, either. Could someone, in simple terms, explain to me how to get some basic DNB-sounding stuff in Reason so that I can mess around with it and make a track out of it (even if it's a really basic one)? Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 17:41 on May 3, 2008 |
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May 3, 2008 17:37
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I'm typing this from a laptop so I'll keep it short: D'n'b bass in Reason: try this:  Drums in Reason: 1) find a breakbeat like the Amen break. Lots of wav file samples of it. 2) Use Audacity to chop it into pieces. Basically, it means that you open the complete wave file which is like bom-boom CHAK diggy diggy boom CHACK diggy. 3) Cut out the bom, boom, (bassdrums) CHAK (snare) and diggy (hihat) and save these as separate samples. 4) Load these samples into ReDrum. 5) Experiment and see if you can recreate the Amen drum pattern using ReDrum. 6) variation: pitch them up. Take different portions like combination of a diggy boom, or diggy CHAK. Yes, I agree, I sound like a complete retard here. This is how you make the old UK rave of 1992 and so, of which drum 'n bass has a lot in common; the main difference is that nowadays in d'n'b the bass is meaner (throw an extra Scream and a filter over the above example) and the drums are even more stripped down. One special trick is in the diggy - you'll notice that it sounds different from hearing a hihat on each of the 16 steps. There's a little "swing" in the sample. This is OK: otherwise, it sounds too mechanical. It does not hurt to emulate the classics; try the same trick with other breakbeats.
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May 3, 2008 18:40
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Yoozer posted:AWESOME Thanks a lot That bass is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm trying to do the drum stuff right now. This is a great help.
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May 3, 2008 19:58
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sithael posted:"Filter Delay" There really can only be one response to this: lol (Granted, the other ones are what he needs, but Filter Delay and Resonators are nothing like what he needs)
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May 3, 2008 20:29
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squidgee posted:There really can only be one response to this: lol They might be more complex than what he needs it for but they can do it, so i included them.
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May 3, 2008 21:44
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Thanks a lot
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May 3, 2008 23:40
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Does anyone know a really light weight app that I can use for making samples before I put them into Logic? It gets annoying having to fire up Logic and do it in a convoluted way when I'm trying to build drum samples out of many songs. OS X by the way, if you didn't catch on after I mention Logic.
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May 4, 2008 03:25
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Yoozer posted:Not if you want notation; then it's Cubase or Logic for you. Or Sonar (if you're running Windows), which is roughly feature comparable to Cubase and doesn't have Steinberg's lovely USB dongle anti-copy protection (and current versions of Logic are OSX only). IanTheM posted:Does anyone know a really light weight app that I can use for making samples before I put them into Logic? It gets annoying having to fire up Logic and do it in a convoluted way when I'm trying to build drum samples out of many songs. OS X by the way, if you didn't catch on after I mention Logic. Audacity?
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May 4, 2008 03:54
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h_double posted:Audacity? Cool, I'll check it out thanks.
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May 4, 2008 08:03
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I hate Audacity with a passion. The fact that it's free is great and the fact that so many programmers are willing to contribute their free time to make a program like that is even better. However, its user interface is unintuitive, basic operations are hard to figure out (why are the names of the pitch/stretch/resample-operations so ambiguous?), lots of features missing, unstable etc. The best program for audio editing is imo Audition, but that's not free either. I used Audacity first and then went to Audition and I'm never going back, that's for sure.
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May 4, 2008 17:48
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I really liked Soundforge for wave editting around v7 - preferred it to Audition in fact. As of v9 they changed the workflow in some very small but hugely important ways. For instance, I can no longer drag a selection/scroll/zoom in and out at the same time using the mouse. Once I reach the edges of the screen it wont scroll for me and to continue a selection I have to zoom to the appropiate ratio, scroll along manually with the mouse and drag my selection till it reaches the edge of the screen again. Repeat however many times I need to do this to select the exact area I want. It literally quadrupled the time it took to make selections in soundforge and was so annoying to me that I have since reverted back to v7.
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May 4, 2008 18:41
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