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DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

I'm not sure if we've ever had one of these. I can't recall one anyways, so here it is. There are quite a few Canadian gun goons in TFR, and a great sum of combined knowledge. In addition, Canadian gun laws are ludicrously complex and arbitrary, so sometimes people need a hand sorting them out. That crossover of expertise and demand can be filled, right here.

First, some links from my bookmarks:
The Canadian Firearms Center Fact Sheets - A good source for the legal definitions and restrictions we face.
Canadian GunNutz - Unfortunately, the biggest and most prosperous Canadian online gun community. Generally a mixed pot full of racists, homophobes and redneck stereotypes. The only good parts are the technical discussions and the Equipment Exchange (EE). This is, in my opinion, the best place in Canada to buy firearms. You'll save money, and it's generally safe.

Commercial links:
Armco - Gunnar is probably the best pistolsmith in Canada, and a good dealer of used and new rifles, shotguns and pistols. Nice guy too, and very willing to answer questions or bargain on trades and sales.
Arms East - Walter is another one of the good guys in the business. Friendly and generous, and he brings in some cool stuff. The source for Stag rifles in Canada.
Lever Arms - A prominent Canadian retailer who has been around for decades. Best known recently for bringing in a handful of Norinco 97's (Bullpup rifles chambered in .223)
P & D Enterprises - Phil and Diane's shop in Edmonton, AB. A good source for a wide variety of rifles, shotguns and pistols and some limited tactical gear. They occasionally have little sales on ammo.
Questar - Mark is one of the really good guys in the Canadian business. Questar is the company you want to work with if you want a firearm or part imported from the states or elsewhere. He's also singlehandedly responsible for lowering the prices of Glocks across Canada and stopping our systematic surprise sex on their prices. Not to mention getting us 10 round 5.56mm and 9mm AR magazines.
The Shooting Edge (TSE) - TSE is another really prominent retailer in Canada. They're the company that got the ball rolling on the Swiss Arms rifles, causing infinite envy by Americans.
Wholesale Sports Outdoor Outfitters - I'm not sure if they've made it out east, but on the prairies, this is our "big box" gun store. They carry lots of everything, but service generally isn't as friendly as the ma/pa gun stores. They're good for price comparisons though, and they have a searchable inventory and mail order system.
Wolverine Supplies - Ryan is another one of those hardworking, really loving cool guys in the business. Wolverine brings in a lot of cool stuff for Canadians (Including H&K P7's).
P&S Guns and Militaria (Thanks sailorjosh). A group of former supermodels who got together to start a business distributing their first love - milsurp.
Loyalist Arms (Thanks Fearless). - Apparently the nicest guys in Canada to wear 200 year old shoes with and talk like James Fenimore Cooper. Also, blackpowder is pretty rad, according to the 65 year old guy I work with.

All thanks to Ductonius:
S.I.R. Mail-Order: That's M-A-I-L order. I'm lookin' at you, buddy.
Marstar Canada: If you're a Canadian shooter and haven't found this place already you really need to learn how to internet.
Frontier Taxidermy: They apparently do more guns than taxidermy and not much frontiering.
Canada Ammo: I've been told these guys are legit.
The Montreal Firearms Recreational Center: They sell guns. Past that, I don't know.
Reliable Gun: Another previous mention in the thread. Out of Vancouver.
William's Arms:
Astor Arms:
Canada-friendly American sites.
SKS Man: Will ship anything to Canada except frames and receivers or anything otherwise illegal (eg, bullpup stocks).

Second, some motivation. Don't get discouraged by our ridiculous laws if you're thinking about getting involved with the shooting sports, or firearm ownership. Despite the image the media portrays, there are lots of fun and interesting guns you can own and shoot in Canada.



TFR poster Mikerock also wrote up this handy little guide to private transfers of firearms in Canada:

mikerock posted:

Transferring of firearms in a Private sale

This is a general guideline. Any questions for clarification should be directed to the CFC at 1-800-731-4000

The transfer of Restricted and Non-Restricted firearms is a two part process. For both parts of the process the buyer and seller will need to call the CFC at 1-800-731-4000.

The first step is for the buyer to contact the CFC and "initiate" the transfer. The seller will be required to provide information such as:

*Their PAL number and address.
*The PAL number and address of the buyer.
*The certificate number and details like the serial number and model of the firearm being transferred.

At this point the seller will be given a reference number which is to be given to the buyer for them to use in completion of the second step of the transfer.

The second step is for the buyer to contact the CFC and, by using the reference number provided by the seller, "confirm" the transfer. The seller will need to provide similar information such as:

*Their PAL number and address
*The model number of the firearm being transferred

At this point the transfer will either be confirmed, which will mean the firearm is transferred into the name of the seller, or "sent for review." A review can happen for many reasons, and usually ends up in delaying the transfer for a few days. The most common reason for a firearm being sent for review is a low serial number, although they do do random reviews. The CFC will not contact you when the review process has been finished, so the seller or buyer will need to contact the CFC in order to confirm that is has been completed. At this point the seller can ship the firearm!

The seller should not ship the firearm until they have been satisfied the transfer has been confirmed completed.



I'd like this thread to be as open as possible, so we can draw out the lurkers and new kids. Ask any question you'd like, and hopefully I or one of the other Canucks in here can help you out. If anyone has anymore links to share, I'd be happy to add them to the OP.

Finally,

Only registered members can see post attachments!

DrakeriderCa fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2009 around 02:26

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Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Also of interest is that the OP is a loving gaywad.

True story.

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This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Gtab posted:

Also of interest is that the OP is a loving gaywad.

True story.

I'm not confirming or denying, just in case there are any fag hags around.

Flanker
Sep 10, 2002

OPERATORS GONNA OPERATE
After a good night's sleep


Gtab posted:

Also of interest is that the OP is a loving gaywad.

True story.

God I loving wish. Drake is a terrible waste of a perfectly good gay man.

If there aren't some good questions and Canadian de-lurks by tomorrow evening I will just start posting Gtab/Drake/Flanker/Mikerock/HPL/Slidebite/Blistex/Phlegmbot gay erotic fan fiction.

DocCynical
Jan 9, 2003

That is not possible just now


Anyone know how much longer the RCMP is gonna make life poo poo in Alberta? I rather liked being able to get restricted transfers same day.

Has there been any news on putting a bunch of people in Miramichi out of a job? I haven't been paying attention lately to the news.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

The trick is to live in BC.

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This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Chunderbucket
Aug 31, 2006



Alberta finally put an end to my six-month PAL application clusterfuck, so I kinda like 'em.
edit: Applied in NB last year, it pretty much just sat there until I moved to Alberta at which point it got sent to the CFO here and I got it almost immediately.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Yeah see you should never live east of Alberta. Ever. I tried Saskatchewan for seven years and learned my lesson. I'll never go east of the Rockies again unless I'm also headed south of the imaginary line.

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This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Chunderbucket
Aug 31, 2006



The maritimes was nice in that it was incredibly cheap to live there, but bad in that it's the maritimes. Never again!

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

...the engine tracks thousands of details for each unit meaning it will be a far deeper game than your grandpa's chess.
Pre-order CHESS now and receive the DLC "queen" unit.

I live in BC, Victoria to be exact. I've been interested in shooting, or at least just learning how to handle a firearm for a while now. I'm trying to navigate the government site on registration but it's starting to baffle me. I know I'm going to have to tackle it if I get serious, but can anyone tell me the general costs and fuss involved in the process? I'm not sure if I even want to own a gun, just maybe go out to a range and learn the basics on a few weapons. Yes, i tried googling for ranges and such in my area, some are listed but none seem to have websites.

What's the best way for an absolute gun n00b to get started? Where do I get this "safety training" all the forms seem to demand?

jarude
Apr 11, 2007

by The Finn


I was planning on getting my PAL, but I'm doing my BMQ/SQ in a month so I figured I'd wait until after that's finished. So far I've handled a C7 and a C9, and learned to field/detail strip the latter. There's something gratifying about holding a fully automatic weapon in this country

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

DocCynical posted:

Anyone know how much longer the RCMP is gonna make life poo poo in Alberta? I rather liked being able to get restricted transfers same day.

Has there been any news on putting a bunch of people in Miramichi out of a job? I haven't been paying attention lately to the news.

Seriously? I haven't had any trouble recently. Have you been referred to the CFO every time or something? The AB CFO in particular has been short of manpower lately. They've actually flown techs out from Miramichi to help cover the shortage. I'm sure they've fallen behind, but I haven't had any problems.

Baronjutter: You'll start out by taking the CFSC (Canadian Firearms Safety Course) from an accredited instructor. It usually takes a weekend, or a few weeknights and costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 to $150 (in AB anyways). At the end of the course, you'll do a written test and a practical test. If you pass both (You will, unless you're stone loving retarded) then you pay the government $80 and they send you your license. That's the super short version.

jarude: You can do it in a weekend. You should do it now, so it's ready by the time you're done training, and you can spend that government $$ on a nice shiny gun. Maybe even an AR so you can practise your TOET's and put some rounds downrange.

Millow
Apr 30, 2006

some say he's a rude dude with a crude 'tude

I should be joining these ranks soon. I applied for my PAL like 2 months ago, and my friend called and they said it is getting printed and sent on the 18th. I'm really hoping it comes before the 22nd because:

http://theauctionadvertiser.com/cgi...ugh&dt=20080322

It's a gun auction in Paris, Ontario (wherever the gently caress that is). My PAL instructor told me this would be a good place to get something on the cheap. Me and a friend went to a gun auction yesterday in Creemore, Ontario and while we weren't there for long (we found a roadkill fawn on highway 9 that looked good, so he field dressed it with a boxcutter and took it home, he's kind of a maniac) but it seemed like sporterized enfields and mausers were selling from $70 - $130, so at that price why the hell not.

When my PAL does come though, I definitely want to get a 10/22 as a first gun, where should I get it from? I want to get the 10/22 all weather, which is stainless steel with a synthetic stock. If you guys can't help me with somewhere cheaper (and at least somewhere near Toronto) I'll probably get it from Elwood Epps (http://www.ellwoodepps.com/new_firearms_ruger.asp) for $287 + tax. That seems kind of expensive though.

FATWOLF
Jan 24, 2006



Baronjutter posted:

I live in BC, Victoria to be exact. I've been interested in shooting, or at least just learning how to handle a firearm for a while now. I'm trying to navigate the government site on registration but it's starting to baffle me. I know I'm going to have to tackle it if I get serious, but can anyone tell me the general costs and fuss involved in the process? I'm not sure if I even want to own a gun, just maybe go out to a range and learn the basics on a few weapons. Yes, i tried googling for ranges and such in my area, some are listed but none seem to have websites.

What's the best way for an absolute gun n00b to get started? Where do I get this "safety training" all the forms seem to demand?

Island outfitters can give you a list of people who run the safety course in town, they also sell the texts, although I believe you can download the PDFs from the Canadian Firearms Centre website now. If you aren't familiar with firearms actions/safe handling your best bet is to take the class. It lasts a few hours over a couple of evenings, after which you write an easy multiple choice exam and show that you can use and handle different actions safely with deactivated firearms. I believe it was $150 or so for the class (restricted and non-restricted) when I took it a few years back. As far as shooting goes I take a few of our local goons up to the Malahat range (Vancouver Island Fish and Game Protective Association - haha) for a day out shooting once in a while. I'm sure we'll do it again this spring/summer sometime.

Millow posted:

When my PAL does come though, I definitely want to get a 10/22 as a first gun, where should I get it from? I want to get the 10/22 all weather, which is stainless steel with a synthetic stock. If you guys can't help me with somewhere cheaper (and at least somewhere near Toronto) I'll probably get it from Elwood Epps (http://www.ellwoodepps.com/new_firearms_ruger.asp) for $287 + tax. That seems kind of expensive though.

I believe SIR and (surprisingly) Lever Arms have the best 10/22 prices at the moment. Mail order and/or the EE on CGN are usually the best ways to go, although Epps are good people if you live nearby.


edit: Here are the Canadian firearms safety course manuals in PDF format for anyone interested:


Non-restricted

Restricted

FATWOLF fucked around with this message at Sep 4, 2008 around 02:10

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Millow posted:

It's a gun auction in Paris, Ontario (wherever the gently caress that is). My PAL instructor told me this would be a good place to get something on the cheap. Me and a friend went to a gun auction yesterday in Creemore, Ontario and while we weren't there for long (we found a roadkill fawn on highway 9 that looked good, so he field dressed it with a boxcutter and took it home, he's kind of a maniac) but it seemed like sporterized enfields and mausers were selling from $70 - $130, so at that price why the hell not.

When my PAL does come though, I definitely want to get a 10/22 as a first gun, where should I get it from? I want to get the 10/22 all weather, which is stainless steel with a synthetic stock. If you guys can't help me with somewhere cheaper (and at least somewhere near Toronto) I'll probably get it from Elwood Epps (http://www.ellwoodepps.com/new_firearms_ruger.asp) for $287 + tax. That seems kind of expensive though.

Good job on going through the rigamarole and getting your PAL. That's a great start.

Just for reference, your friend is a loving maniac and those prices aren't anything crazy. Any normal store will have sporterized Enfields kicking around near $100. You can occasionally pick them up on CGN for around $50.

As far as 10/22's are concerned, that price is a little high, but still ballpark. Cruster made good recommendations. I'd follow his lead.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



As much as Manitoba sucks for a lot of other things, I've found where I live to be pretty great as far as shooting goes. I've got an indoor handgun range just down the street at my old high school, and there's a nice outdoor range just 10km away. You can do pretty much anything there as long as it's safe and you clean up after yourself. Most everyone I've met has been really pleasant and have been a great help in making me not suck so much.

If there's any other Manitoba folk around here, CGN is having another big meet at the outdoor range I mentioned earlier on April 6th. It's generally a good time, and a lot of people show up with some neat toys. I think in the past there's been representatives from Prairie Gunworks and maybe Wolverine there to show off some of their gear.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Coxswain Balls posted:

If there's any other Manitoba folk around here, CGN is having another big meet at the outdoor range I mentioned earlier on April 6th. It's generally a good time, and a lot of people show up with some neat toys. I think in the past there's been representatives from Prairie Gunworks and maybe Wolverine there to show off some of their gear.

Tell Wolverine to get my loving Glock to me before I get angry. It's been two loving weeks.

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This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Wisdom
Nov 28, 2005


My GF is Canadian. I figure at some point we will go visit her home town (Northern Ontario). What am I up against if I drive across the border and I want to keep a firearm in my vehicle?

Also, is there a basic overview of what Canada calls "restricted" and "unrestricted?"

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Wisdom posted:

My GF is Canadian. I figure at some point we will go visit her home town (Northern Ontario). What am I up against if I drive across the border and I want to keep a firearm in my vehicle?

Also, is there a basic overview of what Canada calls "restricted" and "unrestricted?"

I won't even troll you -- you're up against getting your loving PAL or else it's not coming with you, more or less.

Restricted: Handguns, M1 carbines, AR15s, short-barreled rifles.
Non-Restricted: Everything else.

That's the fast and loose description.

God it's hard not to troll you.

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This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Flanker
Sep 10, 2002

OPERATORS GONNA OPERATE
After a good night's sleep


Wisdom posted:

What am I up against if I drive across the border and I want to keep a firearm in my vehicle?

Seriously, just don't. Make your GF get a PAL and poo poo so you can play with guns on extended visits up here. Unless you're going to tag a deer there's pretty much no way to get a gun up here as an American.

We have prohibited, restricted and non restricted. Prohib is things like guns converted from full autos, pistols with barrels under 106mm, guns that politicians think are too scary looking etc. These are legal to own if you had them registered before the date they were deemed prohibited. So you still see them for sale but most shooters can't buy them. Restricted: Handguns and a few rifles like the AR. A rifle or shotgun can become restricted if the barrel and overall length get below some magic number. Non Restricted is the vast majority of rifles and shotguns, and even some cool stuff like black rifles that politicians weren't aware of when our current laws came in.

Make your GF get a PAL then give her $3K so you can play with an Israeli Tavor when you're in town. With ten round mags.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Wisdom posted:

My GF is Canadian. I figure at some point we will go visit her home town (Northern Ontario). What am I up against if I drive across the border and I want to keep a firearm in my vehicle?

Also, is there a basic overview of what Canada calls "restricted" and "unrestricted?"

The other guys hit it, but just for reference, if you're just coming up to visit, you can't bring up any firearms. If you were coming up to hunt, or you were in transit to Alaska, it would be different. But you're SOL.

If you want a more expansive list of what's restricted/non-restricted/prohibited click on the link to the Fact sheets in my OP. It's quite detailed.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



Oh, I've got a question. Is it possible to get an old 12.6 POL converted to a PAL with 12.6 privileges? I kinda want to get a smaller pistol to see how it feels to shoot one of those, but not turning 18 until a few years ago I missed the boat on doing that the easy way. My stepdad still has his 12.6 so I'm pretty sure I can get pre '46 compact pistols through him, but he says he's pretty sure he only has his POL.

If my hare-brained scheme is possible, is there anything pre '46 worth looking at? I've always had my eye on the Beretta M1934s that seem to be going for relatively cheap on CGN.

Coxswain Balls fucked around with this message at Mar 17, 2008 around 02:55

sailorjosh
Apr 23, 2006

Peanut butter, mother fucker.

I'll add P&S Guns and Militaria to the list of vendors - Canada's #1 milsurp source without a doubt.

http://psmilitaria.50megs.com/canguns.html

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Coxswain Balls posted:

Oh, I've got a question. Is it possible to get an old 12.6 POL converted to a PAL with 12.6 privileges? I kinda want to get a smaller pistol to see how it feels to shoot one of those, but not turning 18 until a few years ago I missed the boat on doing that the easy way. My stepdad still has his 12.6 so I'm pretty sure I can get pre '46 compact pistols through him, but he says he's pretty sure he only has his POL.

If my hare-brained scheme is possible, is there anything pre '46 worth looking at? I've always had my eye on the Beretta M1934s that seem to be going for relatively cheap on CGN.

I think I know what you're asking. As far as I know, yes. I believe that you can upgrade a POL to a PAL and keep your 12.6. He'll want to call the CFC - 1 800 731 4000, just to check though. As far as I know, the only thing required to maintain your 12.6 is that you've kept 12.6 guns registered in your name continually since 1996. So as long as his license has never expired, you should be okay.

Pre-'46 worth looking at? gently caress, how about a Nazi Walther PP? Those 1934's are cool too.

Nine Lives
Feb 28, 2008

Day in, day out


You guys need CCW, otherwise your country is poo poo. Sorry. I'm sure many of you already know this (Gtab)

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Nine Lives posted:

You guys need CCW, otherwise your country is poo poo. Sorry. I'm sure many of you already know this (Gtab)

HEY THANKS FOR CONTRIBUTING TO THE THRget out.

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This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Caedus
Sep 11, 2007

It's good to have a sense of scale.


Nine Lives posted:

You guys need CCW, otherwise your country is poo poo. Sorry. I'm sure many of you already know this (Gtab)

Don't loving remind us. The official Canadian stance on encountering trouble either in the streets, or in your home is "run away and call the police". Waiting on a cellphone with the police while some rear end in a top hat stabs you with a pocket knife in the street is the true measure of Canadian politeness.

Wisdom: Are you looking to actually do some shooting here in Canada, or are you just inquiring about bringing a firearm across the border in general?

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Nine Lives posted:

You guys need CCW, otherwise your country is poo poo. Sorry. I'm sure many of you already know this (Gtab)

Wow. Holy poo poo that didn't take long. One page and some douchebag drops in. Hold on a second.

- Threadshitting? Check.
- Pandering to TFR Regulars? Check.
- loving 08? Check.
- Lack of content? Check.

Get out of my thread and don't come back. Seriously. Don't reply to this post. Don't try to defend yourself. Just leave and never come back.

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005

I know what you want. I know what you need.

I shot some guns in Canada today.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

mikerock posted:

I shot some guns in Canada today.

I saw. Neat picture of the 6.5mm damage.

Nine Lives
Feb 28, 2008

Day in, day out


DrakeriderCa posted:

Wow. Holy poo poo that didn't take long. One page and some douchebag drops in. Hold on a second.

- Threadshitting? Check.
- Pandering to TFR Regulars? Check.
- loving 08? Check.
- Lack of content? Check.

Get out of my thread and don't come back. Seriously. Don't reply to this post. Don't try to defend yourself. Just leave and never come back.

Re-loving-lax, I'm giving you guys a hard time. Everyone sees I'm just BSing you guys.

In all seriousness, is there a movement towards CCW in Canada? Is there an organization such as the NRA which pushes this at all?

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Nine Lives posted:

Re-loving-lax, I'm giving you guys a hard time. Everyone sees I'm just BSing you guys.

In all seriousness, is there a movement towards CCW in Canada? Is there an organization such as the NRA which pushes this at all?

Take a note: You're not very good at joking on the internet. v:)v

But hey, I forgive. Yes, there is a movement towards CCW here. Unfortunately, we don't have a large, well funded lobby group. We were pretty fractured for years, with only the NFA as a national org. It didn't have much funding or momentum. Recently, the CSSA (Canadian Shooting Sports Association) started up, and they've been doing a pretty good job. The started a lobbying/legal branch that has been fairly effective, but there are murmurs starting between the two organizations. People getting too big in the britches and getting a little too self-important.

Nine Lives
Feb 28, 2008

Day in, day out


DrakeriderCa posted:

Take a note: You're not very good at joking on the internet. v:)v


I know



One more question: Is gun politics as regionally divided up there as it is down here? like, do you guys have a retardedly strict province next to another very open one? i.e. here we have Cali next to Arizone, or Vermont and Maine next to New York

Phlegmbot
Jun 4, 2006

"a phlegmatic...and certainly undemonstrative [robot]"

Nine Lives posted:

One more question: Is gun politics as regionally divided up there as it is down here? like, do you guys have a retardedly strict province next to another very open one? i.e. here we have Cali next to Arizone, or Vermont and Maine next to New York

Gun laws are mostly federal laws, so there isn't much variance between any two provinces. According to the Canadian Firearms Centre's website:

quote:

Provinces, territories or municipalities may have additional laws and regulations that apply in their jurisdiction. For example, provinces are responsible for regulating hunting. They may put restrictions on where hunting can take place and on the caliber or gauge of firearms that may be used for hunting particular game.

However, much like in the US, attitudes towards firearms vary greatly across the country. I'm in Toronto, the epi-centre of guns-are-bad-and-going-to-kill-my-baby type thoughts.

Toronto also has a motion before its city council to ban handguns in the city. Great idea there, guys. I'm sure all of the scum will come by their local precinct the next day to surrender their illegal firearms.

Flanker
Sep 10, 2002

OPERATORS GONNA OPERATE
After a good night's sleep


Nine Lives posted:

In all seriousness, is there a movement towards CCW in Canada? Is there an organization such as the NRA which pushes this at all?

canadacarry.org

RCMP watch list here I come!

Uncle Caveman
Jun 16, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


DrakeriderCa posted:

If you were... in transit to Alaska, it would be different.
Can you give any more detail? I didn't see anything on the fact sheet.

Cypress
Sep 23, 2005
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

Flanker posted:

canadacarry.org

RCMP watch list here I come!

I was actually just about to post that.

Just the weekend before this one I took both my exams for restricted and non-restricted, and now i'm waiting for the little piece of paper that shows as proof that I did them to come in the mail. Once that's in I get to apply for my PAL.

The total for both was 105, though the unfortunate part was I had to drive an hour and a half each way during that stupid snow storm we had out here (Montreal area).

Any other Montreal TFR goons that wanna help a newbie out? There's me and 3 of my friends (non-goons) that all did it together and any news on local things is appreciated.

TFRWiki has been useful so far, but it's not complete or localized up here so there's only so much I can get from it.

Mister Sinewave
Feb 9, 2008

Please hold still, this won't take a moment.


God drat but I am going to do my part to help get more people to get off their duff and get their PAL. Here is some basic info for Canadians interested in firearms and firearms ownership:

If you are in Canada and interested in shooting, you have three basic options.

1. Go to a shooting range and pay to rent and shoot firearms.
Different ranges all have different policies, but most all of them are very open to new shooters. Typically you will purchase a day pass for the range itself, buy your ammo from the store, pick up a target or three, and fire away under the direct supervision of a range officer. Most ranges allow you to fire various handguns but some ranges also have rifles available. Sorry, you will not have the option of firing fully automatic firearms. Semi-auto is all you'll find.

You do not require a firearms license of any kind to go shooting in this way.

2. Go to a range with a firearms-owning friend who will allow you to fire his or her firearms (under their direct supervision).
You do not require a firearms license of any kind to go shooting in this way either (though you may need a pass for the range).

3. Obtain a PAL (Possession and Aquisition License) for firearms.
With it, you may then purchase ammunition and firearms at gun shops or from other individuals. You must have a PAL to purchase ammunition. You do not require a PAL to purchase accessories (scopes, stocks, magazines, etc). You may then do your shooting at a range or at another legal location (such as shooting gophers in the pasture). If target shooting is something you enjoy, then you should consider it if for no other reason than economics (regular "rental" shooting at a range can get very expensive)!

There are many pieces of fine print regarding this option. Here are the details:


OBTAINING A PAL (i.e. "Gun License")

Deciding to get your PAL is a fine choice you will never regret!

In Canada, there are several basic steps involved in obtaining your PAL and subsequent firearms ownership. Here's a road map to option #3 above. You should get started as soon as you can, and have patience. It is not an overnight thing - but once it's done it's done.

RESTRICTED and/or UNRESTRICTED

First, decide if you will be applying for a license for unrestricted firearms only, or for unrestricted AND restricted.

Most rifles are unrestricted. All handguns and some rifles are restricted. A restricted firearm may only be brought from your place of storage (usually your house) to an approved firing range. They can not be used for hunting, target shooting at the farm, etc. Unrestricted firearms (most rifles) can be used for hunting, range shooting, gopher hunting, and so forth.

I would very highly recommend applying for Restricted as well, even if you don't any immediate plans to obtain restricted firearms. The course and test is not much different, and it's one less application you need to make and wait for (you can apply for both at once when filling out the application). In other words, if you want to buy and shoot handguns or some types of rifles classes as restricted (such as the AR-15) you will need a Restricted PAL.

FIREARMS SAFETY COURSE

Once you've decided what kind of PAL you will obtain, your first real step is to pass the required federal government's Firearms Safety Course as a prerequisite to applying for your PAL.

You can check with a local gun shop or range to get some names of local instructors and course dates. Some ranges offer the courses in-house.

You will get some Canadian Firearms Safety Course books (one for unrestricted, one for restricted), instruction, and then the instructor will give you written and practical test(s). If you pass, the relevant spot on your application will be filled out by the instructor (the part that says you passed, who gave the test, etc etc). It is possible to study on your own, then challenge the test (cheaper than taking the course). Ask the instructor if you're interested in this option. Even if you're familiar with firearms, you should study the books since there are details and test items that you'll only know if you read the book.

Don't stress the test too much. If you pay attention and are serious about what you're doing you should be fine. The test is NOT designed to make people fail - it's designed to make sure you were paying attention and are taking this poo poo seriously.

COMPLETE THE APPLICATION

Now that the course and test is over, you need to complete your application and mail it in. If you don't have an application, you can have one sent to you or download it from the government's web site at www.cfc.gc.ca.

Pay close attention to the application and fill it out accurately. Then send it in and wait for your PAL!

Here are a few facts about the application:
- It can take a while to come in. Try not to expect it, and just be pleasantly surprised when it arrives.
Mine took about 12 weeks from the time I sent in my application. Some people have waited far longer. It will never take less than 28 days (there is a 28 day waiting period before processing.)
- There is an application fee (for unrestricted and restricted it was 85$ in 2003 as I recall.)
- You will need a photo of yourself (a passport photo will do nicely - walk into any photo place for one.)
- The photo will need to be signed by someone appropriate (see application for details) saying it's a photo of you.
- You will need two references to say you are you and you're an OK person (see application for details.)
- Processing your application involves a background check, and your personal references may be contacted.
- The Government will look at all available records (such as police records) for the last 5 years for any reason you should not have a firearms license.
- IF YOUR APPLICATION IS REJECTED FOR **ANY** REASON, YOU HAVE 30 DAYS TO APPEAL BEFORE A PROVINCIAL JUDGE.



PURCHASING FIREARMS

Purchasing unrestricted firearms:
Go to gun store. Pay for gun, give PAL to the employee for the registration, take gun home. Receive actual registration certificate in the mail a couple of weeks later. (When taking the gun home, be sure to adhere to the laws regarding transportation - see below.)

(Apparently in the bad old days the registration process was done over the phone and could take up to two weeks to happen. When I purchased my rifle it was done online by computer and was completed more or less instantly. Also, there used to be a 25$ fee for a registration but not any more, thankfully.)

Purchasing restricted firearms:
Restricted firearms involves the additional step of requiring an ATT (Authorization To Transport) and happens a little differently. You can expect something like this:

1. Pay for firearm, provide PAL and other information for the sale. Then, the store will call the CFC to initiate the transfer.
2. Provide your information over the phone to the CFC for the transfer. You need to be a member of an approved Gun Club and will also have to provide that information at this time (i.e. where you are a member and where you shoot).
3. Await notification of the completed transfer. (You can check on your own, or the gun shop will probably let you know.) This can take up to a couple weeks or so under normal circumstances, but peoples' experiences have varied widely.

At this point (that is, when the transfer is complete) the firearm is now registered to you, and you own it -- you will recieve your registration certificate in the mail in a couple weeks. You will need to call the CPFO (Chief Provincial Firearms Officer's office) to get a Short-term ATT which is permission to move the firearm from the store to your place of residence (specifically, the location to which it is now registered for you). This ATT can be done over the phone and is free. If you are not familiar with how to contact your CPFO, just ask at the store and they should be happy to help.

Once that is set up, that short-term ATT allows you to legally bring the firearm from the store to your home in the timeframe noted on the ATT. Since you are responsible for transporting the firearm according to the law, be sure to bring a suitable case, lock, etc.

(This is a good time to mention that an ATT requires you to transport the firearm from A to B using a direct route. No stopping for gas/snacks/groceries along the way.)

Now, if you do not already have a long-term ATT for your firearm (which is a generic sort of permission to bring it from your home to a firing range and back) you can get one from the CPFO as well. You'll need to fill out a form that you can fax or mail to them. Or, you could drop by in person if the office happens to be near you. The form is available online at http://www.cfc.gc.ca or should also be available at the office location if you go in person. ATTs are free.

Most gun shops will allow you to purchase a firearm before you have your PAL. They just put it in their safe to wait for you until you DO have your PAL. This is good if there is that one gun you've just got to have and don't want it to be sold to someone else while you're waiting for your license. While you're waiting, a friend with a PAL can transfer the gun to themselves, then accompany you to the range and allow you to fire your (technically their) firearm under their supervision. Then when you get your PAL they can contact the CFC and initiate a transfer of the firearm from them, to you.

So, while your PAL is on the way you don't need to put Target Shooting on hold. There's range rental guns and day passes, as well as helpful friends with PALs to take custody of any firearms you'd like to purchase (and fire) while waiting for your PAL. And you don't need a PAL to purchase accessories.


TRANSPORT AND STORAGE OF FIREARMS
Consult the laws to ensure compliance. The basics are as follows (this is not an exhaustive list, just basic guidelines for your information):

Your Registration Certificate(s)
This is the paper that comes in the mail. Keep it with you or with your firearm. If, for example, a cop asks to see the registration certificate for your firearm, you'd better be able to show it!

UNRESTRICTED Firearms
Storage: Must be stored unloaded and rendered inoperable (e.g. with a trigger or cable lock) or the bolt removed, or the firearm locked in a sturdy, secure container that cannot be easily broken into. Ammunition may NOT be stored in the same room unless the ammunition is in a (separate) locked container, OR the ammunition is in the same locked container as the firearm.

Transport: Leave the unloaded firearm in a gun case in your trunk (out of sight) and your bases are covered.

RESTRICTED Firearms
Storage: Must be stored unloaded, with action disabled (trigger lock, cable lock), and in a locked secure container that cannot be easily broken into. Ammunition can be in the same locked container as the firearm itself; otherwise, the ammo may not be stored in the same room unless the ammunition is in its own locked container.

Transport: Leave it in the trunk (unloaded, trigger/cable locked, inside a locked opaque container) and travel to and from the range by a reasonably direct route. Do not stop for shopping, etc while leaving it in your trunk (your ATT does not allow this).

Gun Safes/Vaults:
Ammunition and unloaded Firearms (unrestricted and restricted) may be stored together if they are stored in a gun vault a safe made especially for the purpose. If secured in a vault, the firearms do not need to be individually disabled (ie trigger-locked, etc) while in storage. "Safe" or "Vault" is not exactly defined by law, which means it's up to the discretion of a peace officer. But one thing is clear from precedent - the typical stand-up lockable gun cabinet/metal locker is not a vault.


SHOOTING RANGES
Check your phone book or ask at the gun shop for ranges in your area. Many have yearly rates and some have day passes.

Note that being a "member" at a range (i.e. "member" as in "you have a yearly pass for the facilities") is not necessarily the same as being a member of a gun club in the eyes of the government for purposes of validly obtaining a restricted firearm (whose only lawful purpose is firing at an approved range).

Find out what you can before you buy. Some ranges have different facilities or "house rules" about things that don't really matter and may not turn your crank. For example, some ranges do not allow certain targets (human shape or human silhouettes). Some do not allow rapid-firing (ie "Please wait X seconds between shots"), some do not welcome shooters wearing camouflage, and so forth. Find a range with the freedom you like, or at least a level of control-freakness you can live with before ponying up that membership fee. Keep in mind that just because you share an interest in shooting doesn't mean you share any other values or viewpoints.

SHOOTING ORGANIZATIONS
Consider supporting the CSSA (http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/) and/or the NFA (http://www.nfa.ca/). The CSSA has a good publication/newsletter which always contains great legal/regulation advice, including features like "Ontario CFO has begun to search seniors' homes -- The CSSA has prepared detailed instructions of how gun owners should respond to, and deal with [the Ontario CFO's pilot program to conduct home inspections to ensure compliance with the safe storage regulations mandated in the Firearms Act.]"

They also had a fill-in-the-blanks Freedom Of Information Act request you can fill in to obtain all the information the Canadian Firearms Centre has on you so you can review it and correct any errors, if any exist. Mistakes have been known to exist in the registry. Since as a firearms owner you could go to jail for, oh, not notifying the Government of an address change within 2 weeks of it happening it's a good idea to make sure all their information is correct.


So get off your duff and get your PAL! Even if you have no immediate plans to purchase a firearm, go out and get it! It takes some time and some effort and some money, but once it's done, it's done.

Mister Sinewave fucked around with this message at Mar 17, 2008 around 16:24

Flanker
Sep 10, 2002

OPERATORS GONNA OPERATE
After a good night's sleep


Megapost out of nowhere! Nicely done.

I am unaware of any gun ranges that rent firearms in Ontario.

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Phlegmbot
Jun 4, 2006

"a phlegmatic...and certainly undemonstrative [robot]"

Flanker posted:

I am unaware of any gun ranges that rent firearms in Ontario.

I was about to ask about this, yet again

I'm going be joining the Scarborough Rifle Club later this year. It's single-shot .22 only, but that's what I started on last year.

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