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HatSmack
Jan 28, 2009


Also until today I didn't know that Walmarts here (Ontario) sold ammunition

Edit: Well at least the one here






HatSmack fucked around with this message at Apr 27, 2012 around 03:07

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Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Here in Vancouver some do, some don't. ^____________^

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Gtab posted:

Here in Vancouver some do, some don't. ^____________^

And most of the time they're out of stock.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

They're lying to you so you'll leave because you look unhinged as hell

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Probably just as well because 22LR got man stopping powers

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Sultry Goofy is making me feel weird.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

priznat posted:

Sultry Goofy is making me feel weird.

just let it happen

Bhurak
Nov 12, 2007

Playing music in the key of HIP!


I've noticed a trend in the last three weeks or so. Every mook who comes in starts asking for "your best price". We always had the odd guy looking for a deal but this particular phrase has been repeated often enough by sufficient numbers to be something off of television. Either they think I'm going out of my way to rob them or they think that in the 3 minutes we've known each other we have a bond that will last the ages.

Anyone else who made the poor decision to work in a gun shop notice this and know where this comes from?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Don't fish swim south for the winter?

No, sir. That's birds.

Birds swim south? How do they breath?

Bhurak posted:

Anyone else who made the poor decision to work in a gun shop notice this and know where this comes from?

I don't work in a gun shop, but I'll loving guarantee it's from mouth-breathers who watch Pawn Stars, American Guns, and the million-and-a-half clones of these "reality" shows about pawn/gun/etc shops. Just judging by their mushroom-like proliferation on basic cable channels they seem to be really popular for reasons I can't even begin to fathom (they're universally terrible).

Every single episode involves people coming in and "haggling" with the store in ways that are just silly. It's all scripted as gently caress, of course, but much like professional wrestling there are people who insist on believing it's all real, and I could easily see those idiots thinking this is how real gun shops work.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005



Bhurak posted:

I've noticed a trend in the last three weeks or so. Every mook who comes in starts asking for "your best price". We always had the odd guy looking for a deal but this particular phrase has been repeated often enough by sufficient numbers to be something off of television. Either they think I'm going out of my way to rob them or they think that in the 3 minutes we've known each other we have a bond that will last the ages.

Anyone else who made the poor decision to work in a gun shop notice this and know where this comes from?

I used to hear it all the time when I worked in a shop back in the early 1990s, but there's probably some resurgence nowadays from Pawn Stars or Storage Wars or some crap like that.

e: CYRANO!

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Don't fish swim south for the winter?

No, sir. That's birds.

Birds swim south? How do they breath?

infrared35 posted:

e: CYRANO!

I'm avoiding doing work on a dissertation. Shouldn't you be cavity searching a moose or something?

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005



Cyrano4747 posted:

I'm avoiding doing work on a dissertation. Shouldn't you be cavity searching a moose or something?

It's my day to help the wife select which animals to fatten up for next fall's fur harvest. We lucked out and didn't need any furs this last winter.

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Cyrano4747 posted:

Stuff

Full disclosure: I've watch a couple episodes of Pawn Star mainly because cool stuff that get brought in.

Having said that, I'd like to ask other people in gun stores mainly because I'm curious. Is there no room for negotiating on the price for used guns? I know it's stupid to do it on new guns but I'm not sure what's the deal with used guns.

Flanker
Sep 10, 2002

OPERATORS GONNA OPERATE
After a good night's sleep


HatSmack posted:

Also until today I didn't know that Walmarts here (Ontario) sold ammunition

Edit: Well at least the one here

Who are you? Tell me about yourself. Like where in ontario you are and which Gtab action figures you own.

I have the one with detachable chest mount Pomeranian and the cripple hospital action-less figure.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005



Flanker posted:

Who are you? Tell me about yourself. Like where in ontario you are and which Gtab action figures you own.

I have the one with detachable chest mount Pomeranian and the cripple hospital action-less figure.

Mine is so old it only came with an XD and a censor bar.

Flanker
Sep 10, 2002

OPERATORS GONNA OPERATE
After a good night's sleep


infrared35 posted:

Mine is so old it only came with an XD and a censor bar.

if it's autographed and unopened it's worth a lot of (Canadian Tire) money.

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005

I know what you want. I know what you need.

Bhurak posted:

I've noticed a trend in the last three weeks or so. Every mook who comes in starts asking for "your best price". We always had the odd guy looking for a deal but this particular phrase has been repeated often enough by sufficient numbers to be something off of television. Either they think I'm going out of my way to rob them or they think that in the 3 minutes we've known each other we have a bond that will last the ages.

Anyone else who made the poor decision to work in a gun shop notice this and know where this comes from?

I don't notice it any more than usual.

Mister Sinewave
Feb 9, 2008

Please hold still, this won't take a moment.


NOTICING THIS MORE THAN USUAL

THIS IS BULLSHIT

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005

I know what you want. I know what you need.

Heh.



GLOBAL WARMING

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Snow status: nope
West Coast: Best Coast

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005

I know what you want. I know what you need.

Gtab posted:

Snow status: nope
West Coast: Best Coast

West Coast Best Coast

FATWOLF
Jan 24, 2006



Gtab posted:

Snow status: nope
West Coast: Best Coast

I actually thought it had started snowing the other day at work which was weird because it was sunny and warm. Turned out to just be a bunch of white cherry blossoms blowing off a nearby tree.

West Coast

Jefferson Q. Alias
Oct 14, 2010


No snow on the East Coast either.

Decoy Badger
May 16, 2009


There's a high of -2 tomorrow! The snow hasn't melted yet...

Does the Quebec injunction mean that you cannot bring unregistered firearms into Quebec for now? If your guns weren't registered in Quebec in the first place would there still even be a record?

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Decoy Badger posted:

There's a high of -2 tomorrow! The snow hasn't melted yet...

Does the Quebec injunction mean that you cannot bring unregistered firearms into Quebec for now? If your guns weren't registered in Quebec in the first place would there still even be a record?

You can't bring anything transferred or imported since the death of the LGR to Quebec. Sell, transport, or trade. The Quebec injunction is keeping all of the gun registry data regarding PQ residents alive.

If you have a Remington 700 or whatever that was registered to you prior to the end of the LGR, and you still have the cert numbers and poo poo for it, you can call in to the CFC and transfer it to a PQ resident just like before the change. Similarly if you have the paperwork and can legally cross into PQ with the gun, you are fine. If you don't, or the gun has come to the country (or magically appeared) since the LGR ended, you cannot.

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



That is hosed. In other news I went to a gunstore today.

Got to handle a Glock 17, a CZ 75 SP 01, and a Springfield XDM.

I really like the glock and the cz. Also is $729 for a gen4 glock 17 with 3 mags a good deal? Or is $699 for a gen 3 with 2 mags better?

I was really honestly surprised at how light it was because I thought Gtab was exaggerating but goddammit now I want one.

E: and I can't log in on tfr on my iPhone. Noooo... E2: n/m I'm special

quaint bucket fucked around with this message at Apr 27, 2012 around 22:41

Mister Sinewave
Feb 9, 2008

Please hold still, this won't take a moment.


quaint bucket posted:

I was really honestly surprised at how light it was because I thought Gtab was exaggerating but goddammit now I want one.

Try taking the slide off, you'll swear the frame in your hand weighs literally nothing.

A buddy responded to me saying this with butbutbut all the weight in the slide means worse recoil!

I don't think he 'likes' glocks

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

quaint bucket posted:

That is hosed. In other news I went to a gunstore today.

Got to handle a Glock 17, a CZ 75 SP 01, and a Springfield XDM.

I really like the glock and the cz. Also is $729 for a gen4 glock 17 with 3 mags a good deal? Or is $699 for a gen 3 with 2 mags better?

I was really honestly surprised at how light it was because I thought Gtab was exaggerating but goddammit now I want one.

E: and I can't log in on tfr on my iPhone. Noooo... E2: n/m I'm special

I am literally the source of all correct opinions; it would save everyone so much time if they just rolled with it.

I like Gen 3s over Gen 4s but there's nothing reeeeeally wrong with Gen 4s. If you get a chance, go back and check the recoil spring assembly of the Gen 4 -- if it says 02-1 on it, it is the new style recoil assembly and is good to go. If it does not say that, it is the early Gen 4s with the... problematic recoil assembly. Glock will swap it for you, but that's an annoying hassle, so if it is the old style that requires swapping you're almost certainly better off with the Gen 3 gun instead since it will be less work/shipping/waiting and it costs less.

tldr: I'd buy the Gen 3 if it was my money. But they're both fine prices for new Glocks in Canada.

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Mister Sinewave posted:

Try taking the slide off, you'll swear the frame in your hand weighs literally nothing.

A buddy responded to me saying this with butbutbut all the weight in the slide means worse recoil!

I don't think he 'likes' glocks

The sales guy was nice enough to show me that, actually. I was commenting, "wow this is a lot lighter than I thought."

He took the slide off and handed me the frame and I was trembling with anger knowing that the frame of the glock was lighter than a pen.

I'm impressed but I don't understand how the recoil isn't a problem. Am I missing something or is the spring the magic cure?

Gtab, you are not a good thing for my wallet.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

quaint bucket posted:

The sales guy was nice enough to show me that, actually. I was commenting, "wow this is a lot lighter than I thought."

He took the slide off and handed me the frame and I was trembling with anger knowing that the frame of the glock was lighter than a pen.

I'm impressed but I don't understand how the recoil isn't a problem. Am I missing something or is the spring the magic cure?

Gtab, you are not a good thing for my wallet.

The weight of the slide and the recoil spring of most semi-automatic handguns will soak up the majority of the recoil of most rounds. Glocks are no exception. They have about average recoil for their overall weight and bore axis.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Recoil is an artifact of grip and bore axis, and has very little to do with the weight of the firearm. The Glock grip angle forces you to grab the gun high and naturally aligns your arm with the extremely low bore axis such that recoil forces are mitigated naturally by the way your muscles and bones are situated. It's not magic, it's just logic. Glock's engineers found a more efficient combination of angles and lines that work better with how the human body works. Additionally, being made out of polymer means the whole gun can flex and change shape a bit under recoil instead of just driving it all into you like steel. The whole gun functions as a spring.

The recoil spring assembly of a Gen 3 is just a rod and a spring like any gun. The Gen 4s use a dual spring setup which further mitigates recoil. The early examples used a setup which was not suited to 9mm and therefore had issues with light ammunition and/or dirty guns -- the 02-1 spring assembly replacement fixes this completely.



Simply put, Glocks are the only actually modern handgun design of the post-WWII 20th century and that's why everyone who isn't total poo poo has tried to copy one or more of their aspects as hard as possible.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

I should add that the majority of recoil "felt" by most people shooting a firearm is going to be psychological. While it is possible to quantify a recoil force, it's exceptionally difficult to do so in a meaningful manner due to the multitude of interwoven variables that effect it (bore axis - wrist pivot distance, energy imparted by the firing of the cartridge [which is itself effected by the expended chemical energy of the propellant, the friction between projectile and bore, the rate of expansion of the propellant, and a hell of a lot of other things], energy redirected in a multitude of directions by the function of the firearm's action, grip tension, friction between hand and grip, biomechanical structure of the shooter's hand/forearm/upper body, angle between forearm and bore axis formed by shooter's stance, etc etc etc).

The reality is that in order to even do a qualitative assessment of the recoil characteristics of a specific firearm, it must be performed by an experienced shooter with an exceptionally consistent position and grip, and a very well developed understanding of their body's mechanics. The majority of shooters don't possess this, so most people's experiences with recoil (especially those of new shooters) are influenced heavily by their ideas of what the firearm's recoil will or should feel like. This is why it's difficult to have a serious discussion of a particular firearm's recoil characteristics - there are really heavy psychological filters that are applied to a mysterious force of extremely short duration that most people don't understand the nature of, and don't understand their body well enough to interpret the sensations the force causes.

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



^ that makes a fair amount of sense and introduced something I would probably never thought about. I get the psychological part did play in the reaction to handling a firearm but didn't know how significant. Is there any research on this because I'm interested in reason about it.

Gtab: the guy said the gen4 is ambidextrous. Is this correct? In that case, then wouldn't the ejection port be directly upward and eject the casings upward? Or is there something else about it? I didn't think to ask that before I left.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Ejection port doesn't matter as much on a pistol since you're not holding it up to your face. Should be pretty much in the same approx location regardless.

Really it would mean mag release and maybe slide release. Or safety on a gun with one.

And mag release can be switched to freaky disgusting mutant lefty side or regular Christian righty side (god bless).

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

quaint bucket posted:

Gtab: the guy said the gen4 is ambidextrous. Is this correct? In that case, then wouldn't the ejection port be directly upward and eject the casings upward? Or is there something else about it? I didn't think to ask that before I left.

He means the magazine release is ambi, and the Gen 4 mags have two cuts in them to allow this.

There's no research on anything gun related most days, least of all subjective perceptions. Subjective perceptions of what a gun "should be" is something I post about a lot in the Newbie Thread but not something that would ever rate study by any serious group because it doesn't loving matter to basically anyone who could possibly fund that.

Mister Sinewave
Feb 9, 2008

Please hold still, this won't take a moment.


I would add too that practical recoil mitigation (which affects felt recoil) is also, of course, technique. I like to show people the video of Travis Haley demonstrating proper grip and how it affects recoil, then he rips off the entire mag and barely even moves. It shows how technique can really make a difference and the technique is not "push forward as you shoot to fight the recoil".

e: It makes the best impression on people who have shot a pistol before and know what it feels like.


DrakeriderCa posted:

I should add that the majority of recoil "felt" by most people shooting a firearm is going to be psychological.

Oh oh oh like oh so many things, it is, like you said, mostly perception.

I remember bringing my AR to the range a few years ago sometime after I got into reloading. I had just started reloading some .223 I wanted to try, nothing fancy.

I shot a mag and a buddy next to me was all WHOA I THINK YOU LOADED THOSE A BIT HOT EH?

I was actually shooting normal 55gr ammo like we always did, not my reloads. He just happened to be standing such that the normal muzzle blast was catching him more than usual or something, I don't know. But since I had mentioned new handloads earlier, he totally jumped to a conclusion. There was absolutely no ammo or gun-related reason for him to "feel" that I was shooting hotter ammo.

Mister Sinewave fucked around with this message at Apr 28, 2012 around 04:02

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Gtab posted:

Subjective perceptions of what a gun "should be" is something I post about a lot in the Newbie Thread but not something that would ever rate study by any serious group because it doesn't loving matter to basically anyone who could possibly fund that.

Wouldn't military be interested in that?

Also, thanks for correction my assumption. I didn't get a chance to see the gen4 so my imagination ran away with it.

I can't get the glock out of my head nnnnnnnngggghhhh

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

No. The military doesn't give even half of a gently caress about what people think the difference in recoil is between a Glock and a Browning Hi-Power. Not even a quarter.

Gun acquisition for the military is equal parts price, politics, and improvement.

Price is why Colt kept their sole source contract for M4s for so long despite being terrible at actually DELIVERING the M4s they're contracted to make -- they kept dropping their price lower and lower past other firms' compete point until finally, this year, they ran out of room to go any lower.

Politics is why Beretta got the M9 contract and why HK got the IAR contract -- the M9 was not the best handgun they evaluated (it shattered slides and required two post-adoption revisions for safety reasons; the magazines have gone through several producers for price reasons and have ended up at an extremely low quality option that basically necessitated 2003-2005 US soldiers buying their own mags before heading overseas if they wanted a working gun), but Italy and the US had a special relationship to solidify; HK has been bitching TIRELESSLY for like 20 years because they US didnt want to buy its own AR18 action back in the form of the G36 or the awful XM8 so the US gave them the IAR contract to shut them up.

Improvement is why the M16 got picked up -- it represented a 1.5x increase in rounds fired, a 1.5-2x increase in rounds carried, a massive increase of volume of fire, etc.

Every gun adoption comes down to one or more of those factors. At no point does any government care if shooters feel more recoil from a SIG 226 or a Beretta 92, or if they feel more from an FNC or an AR15. No one cares at all. They might care if there is an overwhelmingly unsuitable jump in recoil (some WWII antitank rifles were literally capable of breaking collarbones) or the recoil makes the gun not function as it is supposed to (the M14 was not actually controllable on auto and so they locked them all to semi-auto).

No government gives a poo poo. Companies might, but not NEARLY enough to spend the money to fund a comprehensive study when it is 1. a totally subjective field that would require a SHITLOAD of controls and the funding to match and 2. totally pointless to their bottom line since 85% of gun sales are based on expectations and not on results (this is why everyone buys new rifles or new ammo to try to make up for being poo poo at shooting, see The Foghorn Effect)

BigLove
Nov 19, 2009


quaint bucket posted:

Wouldn't military be interested in that?

Also, thanks for correction my assumption. I didn't get a chance to see the gen4 so my imagination ran away with it.

I can't get the glock out of my head nnnnnnnngggghhhh

Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock






Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock Glock

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Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

hey just fyi im sitting here in my underwear with my big thick glock in my hand, just gripping it and feeling it fill my palm




feels good

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