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politicorific
Sep 15, 2007
I've been pouring over a lot of these devices for the better part of 4 hours trying to decide if getting one of these makes sense for me.

I'm tired of swapping out dvds to access my data and would like to consolidate my electronics gear, so I'm particularly interested in the D-Link DNS-343. From everything I've read it appears to be just as hackable as the 323, with an extra 2 drive spots, raid5, and ups capability(that's somewhat broken at the moment). It has the same cpu as the 323. funplug is supported as well

So how insane am I to think I could run Raid-5, torrent at about 1.5 megabytes/sec, encryption(true crypt possible?), and send a high bitrate hd file all at the same time?

I'm not going to need high write performance, but should I lower my expectations?

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politicorific
Sep 15, 2007
A friend wants me to put together a NAS for him on the cheap.

How awful of an idea is it to use one of the new Intel Atom platforms to run windows xp (linux is too complicated for him) along with a 4 sata port pci card and 6 hard drives max with windows running off a flash card. Looking to simply serve files and probably not bother with raid. Will an atom 330 have enough power for this? A motherboard+cpu is about $70 off newegg.

politicorific
Sep 15, 2007

Raptop posted:

I did this and it worked fine for the last year up until this weekend; but don't bother with the drat flash card. It's more trouble than it's worth for the space you're giving up on os footprint. Plus if you do decide to do raid, with your OS image isn't mirrored if it's on a crap flash drive. I even ran TVersity on it, but I had the transcoding turned off. I used the D945GCLF board which has the even lower end Atom 230 on it, and I only put in 512mb of ram. Seemed to run just fine.

I don't have that setup anymore though. This last weekend there was a sale on 1TB drives at the local fry's and I wanted to ditch the cheap sata card for a cheap gigabit card. And the illegitimate windows copy. FreeNAS has dicked up cifs performance as has been noted. Going the linux route it was quick and painless to do a command-line install of Xubuntu and run 'apt-get install samba'. Not so painless is configuring a smb.conf, I still have no idea why none of the shares will show up in mac os x unless the global setting is 'security=share'.

Excellent, ended up getting an ECS motherboard with both a pci-e and pci slot (one for 802.11n wifi and the other for a future 4x or 8x sata card). I looked at the intel boards with gigabit, but my friend doesn't have any other gigabit hardware - the plan is to get an Ion htpc once they come out, but that's a ways out, but still 802.11n should be fast enough for a while.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135100

FreeNAS still hasn't fixed the cifs problems? I did see they finally included transmission, only a year after developers saying they'd never include a torrent client.

Going with XP because I've got plenty of licenses around for it. WHS doesn't appeal to me much, I tried it when the megathread came out and I just wasn't impressed, but I had the same opinions about vista.

Can anyone give me a write up on unraid? I meant to include this in my first post.

politicorific
Sep 15, 2007

squash86 posted:

Quick question about the iTunes service with the DNS-323:

Can I store all my music on the 323 and serve it to my iMac, and still be able to sync my music to my iPod? Or does music have to be on the same computer that the iPod is syncing to?

The iTunes service provided by most nas setups is a version of DAAP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Access_Protocol

It's an open source implementation of Apple's itunes sharing - which doesn't allow syncing. I tried using firefly/mt-daapd on my buffalo units, but it's mostly worthless. It doesn't work well with newer versions of itunes and it won't work with my appletv. This is even more disappointing because I can't use my ipod touch and appletv independently of my pc. Apple last changed the protocol for the appletv. A neat thing I'd like to run is the Simplify Media app on the iphone, which incidentally is a modification of DAAP.

It sucks all around - it's better to just add the folders in itunes via NFS/Samba.

politicorific
Sep 15, 2007
I am coming here for a confidence check. I need a critique.

I want to build a rackmount PC and place it inside of something like a NavePoint 15U server cabinet ([https://www.newegg.com/p/2BA-001H-000Z4]) and run Unraid (or goon-suggested option). I want to put a few ideas/limitations upfront and provide my rationale. I thought about posting this in the HomeLab thread, but it didn't seem too appropriate. So here's what I'm thinking:
  • I live in East Asia, so I don't have access to the typical goods/products on Newegg (but Taobao and Aliexpress ship quickly). I also don't have the insider info to purchase used enterprise equipment. So I cannot get any Rosewill products and I also cannot get the Navepoint case, but there are a lot of other interesting cabinets (or unbranded OEM stuff).
  • I also live in a multi-room apartment on a high floor. The "situation" has impacted travel and work, so I'm starting to think about indulging myself by building up my home computing equipment to pursue more computer-related hobbies. My travel budget is getting dumped into this hardware budget. Of course, the significant-other-approval factor is really important, therefore I need to keep the equipment quiet. Plus, having one mini-rack seems much easier to move around, should I ever need to move apartments. The idea of having something the size of a nightstand right next to my desk seems much better than some desktop case and mess of wires. In fact, a nice glass door on it would be really slick looking. Shoot, it might be able to fit a wine cabinet right next to it and even install some rack-mounted audio equipment. I really wonder why this hasn't become more popular... although it probably gives off a late 1960s/early 70s minicomputer feel.
  • Also, I'm considering other locations where I could place the rack; such as in a living room or if I swap rooms for my home office. I would need to run some more Ethernet cable through the existing conduits to make HDMI&USB over Ethernet possible. Linus Tech Tips' videos on Unraid really opened my eyes.
  • For a long time I've wanted to do more virtualization from devices that are on 24x7 and build my own personal cloud. I've also wanted to escape the Apple/Google/Microsoft ecosystems as much as I can. The Windows Linux Subsystem caused a lot of issues on my laptop. Once I started calculating the cost of a new Apple MacMini and a Synology/QNAP NAS, I found I only need to invest a little bit more to gain a lot more freedom and options. Some of the services I'm interested in running are: Ansible, PiHole, Joplin, Git, and Plex, HomeAssistant, and whatever else that will be easy to spin up. I also like the idea of snap-shotting system images for backup. I have had small board computer PCs crash on me dozens of times in the past.
  • I would also like to add a UPS battery backup to the system. Rack mounts for this are convenient and clean. I've experienced power cuts in many countries I've lived in and I expect more in the coming years. I have a 500/250 Internet connection over Fiber/GPON. I need to run some fiber UPC extenders through these conduits to relocate the router if I'm going to put it on battery backup. Of course, I could be wrong that the telco continues to power their devices during a power cut. Mobile LTE service stayed on in the past and it's the same operator. I'm not too confident about running PFsense in a VM, I did run m0n0wall years ago, but I need to keep the Internet up... in fact I've had some outages with the consumer-grade 802.11 access points I have. Who knows, maybe I can get an SFP GPON adapter from my telco provider and a separate 1u server for that purpose.
  • My current PC is a 2-year-old laptop with an i7-1065G7. I also purchased a Razer Core ThunderBolt 3 eGPU and put an older graphics card inside it for gaming. I do have a steam account, but I mostly play strategy games and older games. I do have a 4k monitor (43"), but I usually run games in 1080p or in windowed mode. Hopefully, I'd be able to sell some of this equipment too to fund this.
  • My work PC is a 3-year-old ThinkPad which is getting a little slow and old. However, my company allows employees to run their work Windows 10 image off of virtual machines. This PC doesn't need a 3D GPU; a simple video output will do, but I'd like to have a dedicated video output (HDMI/Display port) for it, rather than a virtual desktop. Perhaps I can forgo a PC refresh and get better performance.
  • I have a decent Aten 4 port USB KVM and my monitor can take up to 6 inputs. (Limited to 4k 60 Hz).
  • I would also like to look into transcoding if it makes sense(by trying to find a used Quadro P2000).
  • Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but by running all these machines off of the same Unraid host, I should be able to transfer files much faster than Gigabit Ethernet, right? That would eliminate the need for expensive networking gear.
  • Rather than have multiple machines, (a dedicated NAS, a dedicated gaming machine, and an army of Raspberry Pis), I thought "why not spend a little bit more and get a lot more functionality?" Plus, I'd like to have direct video output from the machine and not try to pump 60 FPS through a network connection to a desktop software client. Steam Link-type tools seem more like a toy rather than something I would want to use at all times.
  • This will be an Intel build (I've got nothing against AMD). The thing that really opened my eyes about virtualization is that extra cores don't seem to be impacting the performance of many applications. I can benefit by combining multiple machines into one box and running unRaid. For example, take this video comparing different gaming performance of extreme editions. The top-end, double the price 10980EX (18 core/36 thread) has very similar performance to the 'entry-level' 10900XE (10 core/20 threads). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3JRKhEu0SI
    Although, I expect that some will say that this is just a symptom of games having not yet been coded to take advantage of multiple cores or that I've been in the Windows world too long.
    Using these parts means using the x299 chipset.
  • I have not really given a lot of thought into how many hard drives to populate this with yet or how to configure them in UnRaid. I really don't know how much storage I'll need. Most motherboards I'm looking at have between 6-8 SATA ports. This won't be a video editing rig. I need more of a long-term data pool. I read that as of today, SSDs are still 4.5-5x the cost of HDDs. However, it seems like we might reach cost parity in a couple of years, which may make a difference if I upgrade the amount of storage later. While SSDs are silent, BlackBlaze's initial data shows that SSDs have about the same failure rate as HDDs. UnRaid's documentation suggests adding the largest-sized parity drive you can.
  • I also have not thought about cooling. When I got into PC gaming here on SA 20 years ago, water cooling was not reliable... so I'm a bit biased against it. If I have a 3U server case, I should be able to run a decent amount of airflow from front to back, right?
  • Ultimately, being able to shut down VMs to fine-tune available memory, GPUs, and CPU core count is very attractive.


So the major parts would be:
  • i9-10980XE
  • A motherboard with an x299 chipset (I guess I need to dig through the UnRaid forums to make sure the one I buy doesn't have any issues)
  • Case: either a Silver Stone GD08 or Silver Stone CS350. These both seem to be 3U cases.
  • Storage cache pool drives: I have two new unopened 512 GB 2.5" SSDs
  • Ram: Should I buy the biggest DIMM I can, (like a single 64 GB one) and then buy more later to expand, and which would increase the memory channels?

politicorific fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Oct 4, 2021

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politicorific
Sep 15, 2007
Thank you all for your replies! It's nice to have somethingawful as a resource.

While digesting your responses, I came across two websites which I felt were very useful. I didn't see these in the first post, but they look reputable enough that including them might be helpful to newcomers (along with any relevant subreddits, servethehome, and levelonetechs).
https://unraid-guides.com/
https://www.serverbuilds.net/

Serverbuilds in particular has builds calculated down to the dollar... This tells me that I have a lot more reading to do to see if it impacts my plans at all.

I'm going to reply/ask questions about a few points some of you made.

VostokProgram posted:

- transfers between VMs over the hypervisor's network bridge are pretty much at RAM speed
This is awesome. There's little likelihood of me being able to build a sprawling network out of my apartment or being able to buy a property that could contain a huge rack which would require 1/2.5/10/25/100G Ethernet, so it's good to know this for the future.

VostokProgram posted:

- consider having your main PC as a dedicated desktop anyway so you can still check your email and pay your bills online whenever this homelab inevitably explodes, figuratively or literally
This made me laugh. Yes, I will likely keep my RPi4 as an emergency backup in case everything goes haywire. A year ago I was considering buying a Lenovo M90n-IoT and thought the solution was 'multiple boxes', but the cost of it was too high for the relatively weak performance.

VostokProgram posted:

raidisnotbackup, ups, dimms
I will follow your advice.

Next,

Actuarial Fables posted:

4U case recommendations

Scruff McGruff posted:

4U case recommendations
Great setup, great feedback! This is exactly what I wanted to see.

Please check my math on my cabinets and cases:
The Silver Stone CS350
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=760&area=en
440 mm (W) x 161.2 mm (H) x 474 mm (D)

Let's use this link as a representative example of the server cabinets I can purchase.
I don't know if there is enough clearance for the server to fit inside without hitting the back.
Do these cases typically have the ability to move the rack posts back and forward?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det....6bc243a2Ax3FYu

(width x height x depth)
600x(depends on number of Rack Units)x600

There should be enough space to fit this case and future equipment. I guess I need to figure out how tall of a server cabinet I want(600, 800, 1000 mm?). Ha, I just got the idea to replace my other furniture with rackmount cabinets. At least it'd all match.

Actuarial Fables posted:

For how many drives you want to put in it, figure out what you want to store, and how long you want to store them. Depending on how many HDD drives you need, it can significantly limit your chassis choice. A few drives won't change much, but 6+ will.
To answer this question, I need to calculate how many RUs I need. My apartment's utility panel already has a tidy rj-11 phone patch panel, Cat5e patch panel, a 10/100 Ethernet switch, small PDU, 12v power supply, and coaxial cable distribution panel. I have my RPi3 running Pihole and router stuffed in this wall cabinet. I don't need to relocate all of that to this rack. I should probably take a picture just for Internet cred. Above this panel is the electric circuit breaker panel.
  • 4U - The server
  • 2U - The UPS
  • 1U - A PDU (fancy power strip)
  • 1-2Us - some shelves for my router and RPi3 running PiHole.
  • 2U - 120mm Fans?
By my count, I have plenty of RUs leftover(if I get a 15-20RU cabinet). I began to wonder what the length limit on SATA cables is (it's 1 meter), so I thought, what if I just route all those cables to another 4U case. Then after some googling, I found there are SAS cards with external ports for SAS extenders... which led me to several articles like these: https://www.serverbuilds.net/16-bay-das

Going with the SAS extender route won't make me fret so much about cramming all of my stuff in this first case. It also means I don't need to be disappointed about trading HDDs for GPUs. Just thinking now, it'd be nice if there were a 3.5/2.5 drive "vertical" cage meant for SAS expanders which could be mounted in ATX case motherboard mounts. This would be one way to cram additional hard drives into standard cases for DIYers. Maybe one day I'll do some industrial design and get the parts all laser cut.

Yes, there is plenty of space for the future if I get a SAS card and expander. Yesterday I saw a 16 TB Toshiba drive go up on a local site for about 360 USD, $22.5/TB is a little bit more than I want to pay. So maybe for now will just set up something small to run the VMs and figure out the HDD long-term storage a different way.

Actuarial Fables posted:

Cooling a power-hungry CPU 24/7 quietly in a 3u chassis is going to be a challenge.
Yes, I need to read more about GPU-passthrough and find out what the idle power consumption of my chosen parts are. I think setting up a wattage meter on this would be extremely useful.

Scruff McGruff posted:

It just means that you likely won't have a square hole system, you'll have a round hole system. This is really only an issue if you're frequently putting stuff into and out of the rack (can wear out fixed threaded holes with no way to replace them like you could using cage nuts, or you have to deal with unthreaded holes needing a nut on the back which is annoying to install)
This is a nice nugget of experience. I see that both the Silverstone CS350 and RM4000 have round holes, as well as some of the no-name Chinese-made cases I can purchase all have rounded mounting holes. Looks like all the racks have square holes.

Scruff McGruff posted:

I haven't tried to do GPU passthrough yet but as long as it's a 10 series or newer Nvidia card it seems much easier than it used to be.
Thank you for this and for sharing your experience with Unraid. I'm trying to get my hands on a 3060 Ti.

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