NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

complex: Sep 16, 2003

CeciPipePasPipe posted:

What options are available if you want to add another 4 or 5 drives, and all the bays in the computer case are already taken? I guess adding a bunch of external USB drives is one way to go, but would probably result in subpar performance.

Is it possible to buy some kind of external multidrive cabinet and hook it up to either a single eSATA port, or perhaps another SATA expansion card with external ports?

I don't want anything that presents itself as one big pool of storage to the host, since I want to run Linux software RAID on the drives and also monitor individual drives' smart status.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816855007 would probably work well for you. Ignore their RAID software and it will just be a JBOD box.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2008 15:13

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 23:14

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Grayham posted:

Would this work with FreeNAS?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115011

Seems like it might be hit or miss.

In the full specifications it says that it is supported in FreeBSD so I am guessing that it would work.

The HighPoint site has drivers that need to be installed if you want to do hardware RAID management. Could be hard shoehorning the driver into the FreeNAS install.

On the other hard the FreeNAS site says the 1640, 1740, and 1820 are working well. http://www.freenas.org/index.php?option=com_openwiki&Itemid=30&id=freenas_users_hardware

Do you want to do RAID in hardware on the HighPoint or in software in FreeNAS? If the latter you could get a simple non-RAID card.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2008 02:36

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Delta-Wye posted:

I think I'm going to go ahead and build my NAS box - however, a good portion of the data that is going to be stored on it eventually is already on a pair of the drives I want to use, and honestly, I don't have the extra storage space to hold it while I build the box. I want to use raidz, how badly is it going to mess me up to use two disks now, and add two later?

According to wikipedia: It is not possible to add a disk to a RAID-Z or RAID-Z2 vdev. This feature appears very difficult to implement. You can however create a new RAIDZ vdev and add it to the zpool.

Will the two vdev's mount as two seperate devices? I hate having multiple drives to deal with and would prefer to have everything as a monolithic device. To tell the truth I'm not real familiar with the Zfs lingo yet, so I thought I'd ask before I threw down some money for the hardware.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mount as two separate devices", but ZFS can do what you want.

Assume you have two 1GB drives now, and will add two more 1GB drives later.

code:

zpool create delta raidz da0 da1

zpool status would show 2GB in the vdev, resulting in 1GB usable. Later to add space to it you would do

code:

zpool delta add raidz da2 da3

The zpool delta would then have two member vdevs of 2GB each, resulting in 2GB usable. The file system would automagically grow from 1GB to 2GB. (I actually just tested this on my FreeBSD VMWare box with 4 virtual 1GB drives.)

Also, note that it will allow you to create a 2 disk raidz, even though you'd be better off specifying "mirror".

# ¿ Jun 29, 2008 07:48

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Grayham posted:

drat, I can't find any proof that it's possible to install SABnzbd+ on FreeNAS. I really want a usenet client to run on my file server.

It is appears possible. If you do a "Full Install" of a recent FreeNAS release you get a "System/Packages" option in the WebGUI. From there you just feed it the package you want to install. You may have to resolve dependencies manually (i.e. grab all the packages that sabnzbdplus depends on). I've never done this, just researched it a bit.

http://www.freenas.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=24 - release of System/Packages option
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/news/sabnzbdplus/ - port of sabnzbplus
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-6-stable/Latest/ - where you might have to grab packages from

# ¿ Jun 29, 2008 15:27

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Looks like you just run SABnzbd.py, and it starts listening on port 8080 by default.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2008 17:52

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Grayham posted:

Does this mean I need to install all of those packages first?

Yes. For the full dependency tree see http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portdependencytree.py?category=news&portname=sabnzbdplus

Also, these questions are probably better asked in the Ultimate BSD Thread.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2008 18:16

complex: Sep 16, 2003

roflsaurus posted:

With a linux software raid array, how would I go about re-installing the base os? if i had a separate IDE OS drive, and a 3 750gb SATA drives in RAID-5, could I just reformat the IDE drive, re-install linux and it would pick up the raid like it was already there, or do I have to issue some commands to mount it?

I was probably thinking of ubuntu server as the base os, but may want to re-install a different distro at a later date.

To tell the OS about the drive just save the contents on /etc/fstab.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2008 02:23

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Delta-Wye posted:

For what it's worth, the last time I ran Solaris was... 2001? 2002? Long before OpenSolaris, I'm pretty sure it only ran on Sparc systems then. And it wasn't installing it, it was just using it that I found distasteful. It just bugged me for whatever reason. I'm going to hunt for Solaris vmware image to play with over the weekend I think. It's not that I couldn't or can't figure it out, it's that I don't want to.

You'll be pleasantly surprised by the new installer. http://www.opensolaris.com/

# ¿ Jul 4, 2008 03:20

complex: Sep 16, 2003

vanjalolz posted:

Thats frustrating :/ I guess if you want real hardware redundancy you need to buy your disks up front. All well and great until you have people like with me with a 300, 500 and a 700 (and one dead 500)...

How good/reliable is the freebsd zfs implementation? I'm much happier working in BSD (solaris is weird, i'm trying it in a vm) but I'd put in the effort to learn it if it meant less problems down the road.

But this is my backup!

And thats zfs on sun! :S Might be old though...

This is not as bad as you make it out to be. Note that it says non-replicated pool, that is, a non-mirrored or non-raidz'ed pool. Would you ever put data on something like that? Probably not.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2008 16:31

complex: Sep 16, 2003

vanjalolz posted:

So how come PATA drives couldn't be yanked?

The original ATA spec just didn't support hot-plug ability.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2008 15:15

complex: Sep 16, 2003

CheeseDog posted:

my question is for you ZFS/solaris wizards i have been confused by what raidz1 means
does it give redundancy if one of the drives fail (i.e. four drives = 750 x 3 + one redundant like raid 5) or more like raid 1 with mirroring.

The former. With 4 750GB drives you can expect ~ 2.25TB (3 x 750GB) of usable space.

CheeseDog posted:

also what is opensolaris like with on board graphics and the rest of the board in general, i tested opensolaris out on an older machine with a old nivida 7600GS and everything except the sound card worked fine (hell it even added my cannon printer on first boot :\ )

Don't know too much about OpenSolaris' support of the Radeon HD 2100. I'm sure it will at least support high resolution 2D, but 3D support may be a different story. I would Google to see if someone else has had success with it; try searching for different motherboards with the same graphics chipset.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2008 11:05

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Ethereal posted:

Anyone have any recommendations for a small case enclosure that can house 3 hard drives? I plan on upgrading my unRaid server to a FreeNAS server using the experimental ZFS support. I figure if I change OS's I'll still be able to import the ZFS pool right?

Woozle wuzzle? Tell me more about this ZFS support in FreeNAS.

Ethereal posted:

Eventually I would like to replace the old motherboard and processor with a more power efficient one. I may go buy a Kill-a-watt to see how my current setup is. If anyone is running FreeNAS, can you tell me how your power usage is? I'd like to know if FreeNAS will sleep properly, and wake up quickly when someone requests a file. (i.e. an Xbox 360)

FreeNAS does not, to my knowledge, sleep the entire box. It just spins the disks down, and the disks are usually just a small part (<10%) of total usage. Of course, this depends a lot on the box you're running on and how many disks you have.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2008 04:20

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Stonefish posted:

Okay deimos, science the gently caress out of us. How's that go?

I think deimos' numbers are off, but he is probably referring to http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=162

The gist of the article is: SATA drives typically have a unrecoverable read error rate of one in 10^14. Once every 100,000,000,000,000 bits it tries to read, it either cannot read it, or it returns something other than what is actually on the disk.

10^14 bits is 12 TB.

So, as disks get larger, if they do not get any more reliable in terms of read errors, they get worse overall.

I see this already. We have a large RAID 5, a disk fails, we replace the disk and in the course of rebuilding there is a failure, either a hardware problem on one of the remaining disks or some checksum error where the data cannot be recreated from parity.

Which is why ZFS is so awesome.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2008 15:21

complex: Sep 16, 2003

pipingfiend posted:

If i go raidZ (4x1TB) what size will the partition be of the array?

3TB. edit: yeah

# ¿ Dec 19, 2008 03:22

complex: Sep 16, 2003

The_Last_Boyscout posted:

Whut? I want to connect via cable because it is more reliable, plus the router is in another room altogether. To connect two computers together with an ethernet cable it has to be a crossover cable, or you need a crossover adapter with a regular cable.

He's saying your hardware, if it is sufficiently modern, will crossover on its own.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2009 05:43

complex: Sep 16, 2003

1.5TB for $129.99.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2009 01:44

complex: Sep 16, 2003

PrettyhateM posted:

Cant find a calculator for RAIDZ1 anywhere, but what kind of usable storage will I get out of 3x 1TB drives and 2x 1.5TB drives?

Would it be good to do them all in one giant pool, or should I split them up?

I know if I did 5x 1TB drives I would get 4TB's usable...

Like most RAID systems, the .5TB extra on the two 1.5TB disks will be ignored. Your zpool will be 5TB and your filesystem will be 4TB.

If you were planning on ever upgrading the 1TB disks to 1.5TB I would put them in the same pool.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2009 19:22

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Nam Taf posted:

I was gonna roll Raid-Z1 and be cheap - is there the possibility to upgrade from Z1 to Z2 without rebuilding the ZPool?

No.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2009 12:12

complex: Sep 16, 2003

We have a Clariion. Have you ever dealt with Solaris' native IO multipathing? The manual seems to hint that Solaris can't deal with third party arrays that are active/passive, or at least that it's not supported.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2009 05:57

complex: Sep 16, 2003

cypherks posted:

Yep, I've seen this before. You need to get a copy of Powerpath. The free version will do path fail-over while the paid version will do both load balancing and fail-over. I think the list price for what you need is about $800. If you want to test it, you should be able to google an activation code.

I actually figured out how to do this with Solaris native multipathing. Totally not documented anywhere.

We try to avoid Powerpath because of the cost and the added maintenance overhead.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2009 16:20

complex: Sep 16, 2003

ZFS in FreeBSD 8 just went non-experimental

http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base?view=revision&revision=197221

I've been running ZFS in FreeBSD 7.2 and its been working great, but I don't push it very hard.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2009 15:09

complex: Sep 16, 2003

I run fileservers at home and at work on FreeBSD as the host OS. At home I use ZFS.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2009 22:54

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Wanderer89 posted:

Can anyone comment on dual-gigabit NICs in a raid-z box on top of opensolaris? There are times when pushing/pulling things that I saturate a single gigabit line, and also would like to be able to have multiple clients not have to share that gigabit upstream.

Can I just slap a 2nd gigabit nic into an opensolaris box and have it use both simultaneously?

First, make sure you really are (or would) saturating the Gb interface. Are you getting at least 100MB/s?

Second, to do true link aggregation as you speak of you need a switch that adheres to the 802.3ad standard. If you have a switch that can do that then it is pretty easy to bring up an aggregated interface that has one IP balanced across two physical links. http://ptribble.blogspot.com/2008/12/solaris-link-aggregation.html

If you have multiple clients and no single client will pull more than 1 Gb then you could probably get by with just bringing up the second interface with its own IP and then pointing the second client to the other IP.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2009 14:01

complex: Sep 16, 2003

friendship waffle posted:

specifically, the log states

Dec 3 01:59:17 freenasbl istgt[4337]: istgt_lu.c:1223:istgt_lu_add_unit: ***ERROR*** LU1: LUN0: format error
Dec 3 01:59:17 freenasbl istgt[4337]: istgt_lu.c:1473:istgt_lu_init: ***ERROR*** lu_add_unit() failed
Dec 3 01:59:17 freenasbl istgt[4337]: istgt.c:1247:main: ***ERROR*** istgt_lu_init() failed
Dec 3 01:59:17 freenasbl root: Failed to restart service iscsi_target

no other services are enabled, no cifs, nothing

Confirmed bug. http://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/freenas/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4561

# ¿ Dec 3, 2009 03:23

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Sweevo posted:

I installed FreeNAS on an old PC, but I'm having trouble accessing it.

I can ping it just fine, but the web interface returns "500 Internal Server Error" 95% of the time, and the other 5% I get a blank page.

Do you have a small amount of RAM on the box? From quickly scanning the forums it looks like you might have a problem with swap.

If RAM isn't your problem then I would just suggest reinstalling, maybe with a slightly older or newer version of FreeNAS.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2010 22:33

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Wow, wish we had a promotion like that here in the States. http://www.netgear.co.uk/freedrive.php

I haven't used a ReadyNAS since Netgear acquired Infrant, but before that the boxes were rock solid.

Looks like one of the frequent complaints about it is sub-optimal network speeds. If you're not a speed demon perhaps you might never run into this limitation. I say go for it. And then come back and review it for us in this thread!

# ¿ Apr 8, 2010 04:04

complex: Sep 16, 2003

ufarn posted:

It was something that the forums added automatically in my futile attempt to stop the linkfication, so no dice. But nicely spotted, though.

It is not dead for me. But, if you still can't get to it, here is the contents of the file

code:

{
    "0.0.0.0": "0.0.0.0", 
    "::": "::", 
    "alt-speed-down": 50, 
    "alt-speed-enabled": false, 
    "alt-speed-time-begin": 540, 
    "alt-speed-time-day": 127, 
    "alt-speed-time-enabled": false, 
    "alt-speed-time-end": 1020, 
    "alt-speed-up": 50, 
    "bind-address-ipv4": "0.0.0.0", 
    "bind-address-ipv6": "::", 
    "blocklist-enabled": true, 
    "dht-enabled": true, 
    "download-dir": "\/shares\/internal\/PUBLIC\/Torrent\/work", 
    "download-limit": 2000, 
    "download-limit-enabled": 1, 
    "encryption": 0, 
    "lazy-bitfield-enabled": true, 
    "max-peers-global": 200, 
    "message-level": 2, 
    "open-file-limit": 32, 
    "peer-limit-global": 120, 
    "peer-limit-per-torrent": 30, 
    "peer-port": 51413, 
    "peer-port-random-enabled": 0, 
    "peer-port-random-high": 65535, 
    "peer-port-random-low": 1024, 
    "peer-port-random-on-start": false, 
    "peer-socket-tos": 8, 
    "pex-enabled": true, 
    "port-forwarding-enabled": true, 
    "preallocation": 1, 
    "proxy": "", 
    "proxy-auth-enabled": false, 
    "proxy-auth-password": "", 
    "proxy-auth-username": "", 
    "proxy-enabled": false, 
    "proxy-port": 80, 
    "proxy-type": 0, 
    "ratio-limit": 2.0000, 
    "ratio-limit-enabled": false, 
    "rpc-access-control-list": "+127.0.0.1,+192.168.*.*", 
    "rpc-authentication-required": false, 
    "rpc-bind-address": "0.0.0.0", 
    "rpc-enabled": true, 
    "rpc-password": "", 
    "rpc-port": 9091, 
    "rpc-username": "", 
    "rpc-whitelist": "*.*.*.*", 
    "rpc-whitelist-enabled": true, 
    "speed-limit-down": 2000, 
    "speed-limit-down-enabled": true, 
    "speed-limit-up": 20, 
    "speed-limit-up-enabled": true, 
    "upload-limit": 20, 
    "upload-limit-enabled": 1, 
    "upload-slots-per-torrent": 14
}

# ¿ Nov 4, 2010 15:29

complex: Sep 16, 2003

For anyone thinking of running a ReadyNAS with vSphere 5, don't. There is an issue with ISCSI: http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=56355

# ¿ Sep 18, 2011 17:17

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Remind me what the downside of leaving ashift=9 is again? Performance hit, right? As ZFS tries to write 512 sectors and the drive performs an extra layer of translation?

# ¿ Aug 10, 2012 19:56

complex: Sep 16, 2003

There is no zfs downgrade.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2012 18:00

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Ninja Rope posted:

I read that not all 2tb drive models are exactly the same size. If I assign the full drives to the RAIDZ array and end up having to replace one with a different make/model, there's a chance the replacement drive might not be big enough to rebuild the array onto, even if it's a 2tb drive. Should I assign less than the maximum drive size to the array just in case, or should I not worry about it?

I would think it depends on the implementation of ZFS. Oracle Solaris since 10 9/10 ("U9") has allowed for slightly different physical drives.

http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19253-01/819-5461/githb/index.html posted:

In previous releases, ZFS was not able to replace an existing disk with another disk or attach a disk if the replacement disk was a slightly different size. In this release, you can replace an existing disk with another disk or attach a new disk that is nominally the same size provided that the pool is not already full.

10 9/10 was shipped with (I believe) triple-parity Raid-Z, and thus supported ZFS version 17. Does FreeBSD ZFS (version 17 or greater) allow for "nominally" different drives? I'm not sure.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2012 02:03

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 23:14

complex: Sep 16, 2003

Prefect Six posted:

I picked it up too, but I really wish there was a service out there that would back up my stuff ON my NAS, not back up TO my NAS.

If you have a Synology, http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/CrashPlan_Headless_Client

# ¿ Nov 24, 2012 04:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of